*** Science Or God? ***

[whitestar_999]

^^read post#2112 by me above,that should clear it.There is no such thing as recovery from a 100% dead brain cells(brain can shut down long before that).

 

[Anorion]

^oh yes read that. Im just pointing out there are specific experiences reported, and maybe there would be more if the patients were not so heavily medicated. Perhaps that is the study from which [MENTION=138559]rish[/MENTION] is quoting the red bits that Raaabo responded to.
Skeptical of the term "near death experience" itself. It's just speculation on my part, but maybe the machines used to measure brain activity can show a flatline or whatever they use to graphically show zero brain activity, but these don't record the activity in the entire nervous system, and there may be some residual activity in say the auditory cortex that is still taking feedback from the sense organs, but not at a threshold measurable by the machines.

 

[whitestar_999]

correct,present machines are not advanced enough to detect minutest brain activity(it will take advanced nanotechnology for that) & that is why no such experience can be termed as credible.this entire idea can be dismissed for now with no exception(or specific experience).

 

[Raaabo]

I just love the differences in the way the two links you posted cover this. "Life after death"? Like are you kidding me?

 

[whitestar_999]

Thanks,I always try to give some credible rational source to support my arguments & if i can't then i simply don't post,that is my policy.

 

[rish1]

I love how you say that then go on to try and refute everything I say

i agreed with that statement.. but not with the rest of the post because it is contradictory on the basis of current evidence that is there..

sir your posts reflected great politeness and since you are quite elder than me that came automatically ..

Again, you lose me at "mainstream". This is the age of the internet, where cats go viral. Actual proof of telepathy in action would run amock and eat aforementioned cats for breakfast. Look at the big deal they made of that silly brain dead study, with crappy articles written about people being brain dead and then coming back and describing events such as white lights, etc. Brain dead = dead, no one's come back from being "brain dead". They talk of under 3 minutes. That's the average drowning victim who's stopped breathing. Lifeguards save people like that on a daily basis. Of course life guards aren't sitting around asking the survivor questions about their experiences, but something tells me a human mind, especially a religious one, would tend to experience a holy experience when approaching death. Even if they didn't, they'd make one up after awakening...

you are thinking i am talking about some internet viral based news sites.. whatever i am talking comes from doctors and scientists .. and it is in the medical literature..
when i say the word mainstream - i mean its not accepted universally yet but that doesn't mean its not there or some B.S

stargate project was a U.S funded military operation which ran for 25 years.. there were statistically positive results and both scientists that did experiments confirmed this..
sony did the research for 8 years and basically came out and said it was Real
Fbi still uses pyschics for investigations
rupert sheldrake did experimentation on dogs and cats
Pear institute , rhine institute and others that i am not aware of..

it isn't in the mainstream yet because it is a very low level hard to detect subconscious human ability, it isn't something like you see in movies like xmen.. 8 times out of 10 it fails ( just like when you go out to hit a 6 in cricket you end up getting a run or two most times , ) and nothing conclusive comes out but 2 times the hit is massive and beyond any statistical chance or doubt .. plus there are 99 frauds out of 100 people only 1 or 2 out of 100 people are genuine who have a great ability of control

plus its a taboo in scientific world ( and a career destroying field for most scientists, look at the criticism against sheldrake and radin and all those 20 other researchers of the past 50 years ) and there is not much funding into these projects..
and then there is observer effect as well.. ( if you assume it exists then this is a valid concern if a psychic is trying to send a thought and all those nose hard skeptics in the room are believing he is fake and its a magic trick and it won't work .. then even if the pyschic does have the ability it simply won't work because the collective thinking of the skeptics subconscious is far more powerful to not make it work and will be blocking it out )

and hence when its tried by peer reviewed skeptic scientists it does not work and is termed as pseudoscience .. if it was all bullshit all along why would it still persist and why would fbi continue to use it ? anyway i am not here to convince just telling you what i am saying is not based on some viral news sites ..

Perhaps, or perhaps you haven't got what I'm saying. There are cases where people "wake up" despite anesthesia being administered. Surely you understand that the brain is complex and more subconscious than conscious. All that "use only 10% of your brain" stuff comes from that.

sorry totally wrong example given .. under anesthesia .. the brain is still functioning and hence it is not surprising to wake up from that..

Now think about it, how many times have you woken up from a dream that took a weird twist. Like chatting with your mum in a dream and suddenly your mum grows a siren on her head and her face morphs into a speaker and she starts sounding like an alarm... and then you wake up, and realise your alarm is ringing. I exaggerate, but basically incorporating what your conscious brain was unaware of into a dream.

dreaming is happening in a functioning brain... and not surprising at all that the brain is between a subconscious and conscious state ..

Now, how about regular morning people (I used to be one, not anymore). How many times have you woken up, started at your alarm, and it starts to ring 10/20 seconds later. You weren't sitting about counting minutes, yet you woke up just BEFORE your alarm could go off? Weird right? Yet happens to people ALL the time.

there is nothing weird about it.. your subconscious has an internal clock .. and if you train it can be as Precise to even seconds as you want .. that is why most people can wake up at precise time everyday without any need of clocks

The problem is you're being wowed by some fancy schmancy terms for really everyday things. We don't understand the human brain well enough yet. Actually we don't understand an ant's brain perfectly yet, and can't build a replica of even that still, not even in software... thus, yes we have a long way to go in that department, and nothing should surprise us. So yes, you may think that the brain dies when the heart stops, or stops functioning, or whatever, but the fact is, it doesn't. What's more likely, quantum waves of magic or science just learnt that the brain doesn't need bloodflow to keep firing and stays alive for longer than we thought, with feebler currents than our equipment can measure...

yes possible and i covered it in previous post , even in that case , you cannot account for super high imagery , and sound experience .. for that you need higher detectable currents and different parts of the brain lighting up.. anyways it does not account how were they able to accurately describe the events happening in the room with their eyes closed and their ears not functioning .. what you are assuming ( wrong analogy but still )here is akin to ..
a dead battery of laptop might still be able to switch on the light of power button of laptop or flash a few pixels of screen for a second but it won't allow you to watch a OS load up and watch a movie ..

and hence even if their is some low level current , say undetectable by our current tech today it isn't enough to generate higher illusions and imagery that people report
because even in REM sleep and in cases of illusions the brain activity is much much higher and we use as much as 40-50 % of brain ( not sure about statistics )

I think someone posted after your post explaining the difference between brain and respiratory death. Loss of consciousness occurs when the heart stops as that's a higher oxygen need, but subconscious stays active for as long as the brain is not "dead", no doubt in diminishing capacity. I don't have the time unfortunately to do a lot of research, and yes my replies are just off the cuff remarks, so excuse any mistakes that arise from not Googling and rechecking everything, but I remember reading the brain stays "alive" for upto 8/10 minutes after the respiration and heartbeat stop, and then after that 10-15 minutes there is sure to be brain damage, and after 25 minutes or so there's only vegetative state remaining... or something like that. But I'm sure the times given were longer than 3/5 minutes which is what most of those links to NDE were citing.

no
no what whitestar99 said was totally invalid and i refuted him with wikipedia quotes .. i am not talking about brain death at all .. i am talking about clinical death .. there is a big difference and you can read up my subsequent post about it..

full recovery of the brain after more than 3 minutes of clinical death at normal body temperature is rare .. that is at normal temperature . under cold temperatures these times can be more than doubled, after that people can return from resuscitation but in almost all cases after that ,there is brain injury ..

This state is called deep hypothermic circulatory arrest. At such low temperatures most patients can tolerate the clinically dead state for up to 30 minutes without incurring significant brain injury.[27] Longer durations are possible at lower temperatures, but the usefulness of longer procedures has not been established yet.[28]

even when you are unconscious you have some electrical activity in the brain..

Since the experiments are not being repeated by 100 more people around the globe with success and scientists aren't jumping up and down making press statements about it, I assume this was another study that perhaps was dubiously funded with less than perfect test procedures. I know if I'd just "discovered" a soul or the afterlife, or new quantum magic waves, I'd be making a noise and trying to get my Nobel prize and global recognition, not quietly sitting in a lab happy with some random churches and bishops quoting me...

same things reported all over the world by all doctors .. you just aren't aware

For one, the statements made by people in such cases as I've read in the past (and never in scientific journals but only in tabloids) are very generic, "I could smell medicines, I could hear clinking of metal equipment, I felt my body jerk and tighten (electric shock), etc" No one says, I heard the nurse talk to the doctor cutting me open about how she "finally got laid last night, and it was with a homeless, transvestite...but still better than being alone..."

lol that's precisely whats told by patients..

some recall the whole conversation that was going in between doctors and nurses at the time ..

Logic dictates that these people have seen too many episodes of Grey's Anatomy, and done a lot of research on things, and describe things in generic ways the way shows or research videos depict them. I am yet to read a very convincing tale of doctors and nurses filing an official report with a video of the ER (all good hospitals have monitoring equipment, especially those conducting such fantastic research and studies), and a video of the patient in the recovery room waking up and going, "OMG I remember EVERYTHING!" Blur out faces and show us these research videos, they'd go viral. If send this prayer to 10 people things can go viral, I'd surely expect a whatsapp message informing me when god is found...

Of course, it takes something drastic...

By definition an NDE is during a traumatic time. WAY, WAY, closer to death than I got, for example. If that doesn't change them I'd be shocked. Plus, since it's all chemistry anyway, maybe being dead for 3 minutes does that to people. That's another study waiting to be done, the before and after of people who are dead before being brought back to life...

What you just described doesn't need near death or out of body experiences. Sometimes it comes with emotional experiences, sometimes with age and a change in chemistry (maturing), etc. Bill Gates is a prime example, and I don't remember reading about any drastic experience with him, or him becoming super religious or whatever...

I know many atheists who don't "fear death" and are happy, many religious people too... heck even terrorists don't fear death, it's not that rare a quality, really. It's just a chemical state that arises out of being assured internally of one's righteousness.




I'm glad my misery is "great" to you
(I'm kidding I know what you meant, but I am picking on what you typed, because that's what a$$es like me do)

Let me give you another theory based on logic but with no proof whatsoever. This is the one thread on the internet where people who argue against me should allow me that liberty, since that's all they do anyway.

Brainwashed science believers please close your ears and go "la-la-la" loudly for the next 10 minutes.

Like I said before, the brain has two components, conscious and sub-conscious, and they're connected. Think of them as a client-server relationship (this is TDF after all). The client is the conscious, the server the sub-conscious. Both run different OSes, but talk to each other often. They're not as seamlessly connected as our real-world computers are with, say, defined protocols and precise coding.

For creationists: This is because God is actually a stoner geek who likes to code life in his spare time when high, and has thrown in about 2% proper code and 98% of Easter eggs and memory hogging rubbish - which you can call JAVA, if you want.

For evolutionists: Because our brain still has so many remnants of all the evolutionary species we once were, there's a lot of birdsongs and monkey mating calls still rattling about up there...

Despite this imperfect connection, still, somehow things get done. Of course there are glitches galore, and people can sometimes forget even basic things like the spelling of "the", or forget the name of a popular character in a book, and then 1 hour later in a totally random situation shout "Aha, now I remember, her name is Clarice!" -- not the best thing to remember during your own wedding ceremony, but, well that's the way the stoner coded it...

The client tries to constantly control the server, and the server always tries to control the client, and in this tug of war, sometimes one wins, and other times the other. For some things, there's no competition. You cannot read when sleepy. You cannot unlearn how to ride a bike.

Thus, with all this imperfect chemistry at play, sometimes weird things happen, and people go nuts, some become more rational and almost everyone matures. Men become better as the testosterone levels drop slightly after the teens. We call it getting serious. Men and women fall in "love", differently, because the chemistry of our brains are slightly different (sorry feminazis, it's true, we are different).

So basically, we're all different, but all still the same, because you may have different fu**-ups in your head than me, but the truth is we're all fu**ed-up and yet all still "sane". We agree on many things, and disagree on a few. We all agree that rape is bad (majority, not ALL), freedom is good, etc. But that's because of a common upbringing. Someone who has lived in a country with a dictatorship forever might feel that's the best way to live. Billions of Chinese might feel communism is the best way...

How do we find what's right? Expose everyone to everything, try everything, experience it all, travel, see the world, bring differences of opinions together like here and let people decide on their own...




When you click a create new folder button, why is it always called "New Folder", or "New Folder1". You know what folder you want, why doesn't the OS just do it? Because your connection with the OS is through a limited means. A button, a mouse and a keyboard. If it were wired to your conscious brain, it would just create what you thought, as you thought it... the connections between conscious and sub-conscious are different from what we can achieve physically, for now.

However, without doing anything drastic such as cutting up your brain or using electro-shock therapy... think of the movies... You may be a cold and lifeless rock, so I won't assume 100% success, but I can say with some surety, that almost everyone has been moved to tears at some point in their life by some movie. Yes, yes, even macho men who never show feelings have had their eyes well up, and then they push down and bottle up emotions as "real men" should. That's chemistry, making you lose control and do what you normally wouldn't.



Everything is a theory, even with proof. That's the beauty of science, it isn't perfect. It's a work in progress, based on physical findings, and extrapolations made off of those findings, and often wrong. Just because we haven't found it yet doesn't mean it's inexplicable, or cannot be found. We didn't find out just about anything until a thousand years ago (millions of years after existence), yet in 20 years we've gone from postal communication to this... give it time. Don't consider "not knowing" as a "failure", it's merely an "opportunity" to learn even more.



Want to bet? I can make you kill yourself. Assuming you don't want to do that at some level already... it's a 180 on your life philosophy. You might say you would "Never commit suicide" and yet I can make you do it using only chemicals. That's me choosing FOR you. You don't spend 60K on an iPhone unless you've been coaxed into it by some external force.

yes i said you can make me kill myself by severely drugging me but i will make that decision myself .. the conscious part decides .. it can go with the influence of subconscious or resist it.. you can't control me not at all ... those nazi camp survivors are a great example .. despite so much pain and drugging them and torturing them they still didn't give up .. those who commit suicide will only do it because they want to end that pain.. ( its still a conscious decision ) you are controlling me indirectly .. you can't control consciousness .. you did not read the brain electrode experiment i gave .. even by giving direct electrical signal to my brain you cannot make me raise up my hand .. hand will rise up but you didn't make me do it..

I hear about these a lot, and no proof ever. It's always tabloids, never scientific journals. Minor and mind-related ailments, yes. For example I've read of people who insisted on pains in their joints and needing surgery, being fooled by methods you described. I am yet to find a credible source that runs a study of people being cured of cancer using faith (monitored by medicine). I would be grateful if people would give inks to actual medical studies if this is happening everywhere suddenly and I'm behind the times (very probable).
I did a little before, no credible sources.

Hearsay. Proof needed please. And yes, living things are a slave to chemistry. I have no doubt that there are intelligent people and people who practise and hone skills to gain better control of aspects of their brain. However, it will take an evolution change to make humans stop being slaves to chemistry.

this is not some viral site or tabloid
here is a great documentary involving interviews from surgeons,doctors, hospital staff and patients .. its quite an old one

"Placebo: Cracking the Code" - YouTube

Why look at monks? There are coders out there who see code in ways most cannot. There's only 1 Messi and 1 Cristiano Ronaldo. Einsteins are scarce too, Newtons even more so... Ever seen strongmen challenges? Hot dog eating competitions where the little Asian guy wins? Humans can do all sorts of stuff with their bodies and minds. Non-buddhists, pork-eating, beer-guzzling, atheist, rednecks can dislocate joints at will and lie on nails and walk on coals, and Brazilian people crucify themselves in the name of Christ, and his "power" makes them not feel pain... Muslims do it for Muharram... explain all that then...

i wasn't talking only look at buddhist monks , these effects can be shown by yogis ,chinese qi gongs masters as well..
look at them because they are professionals and understand more about mind and energy than current science..

Should we all just believe that the ancients knew everything and thus each will believe that his religion or dogma tea
ches the only right path, and we stay in status quo... or we accept that it's not religious, and there's no one fixed method or mental state or path to get to that point, but more a chemical state, which is achieved by the brain feeling a certain something, and try and figure that out. Wouldn't it be great for science for you to walk into an operating theatre, put on headphones, and hear a tone that automatically sedates and makes you immune to pain? Chemical reactions using catalysts... sight, sound, touch, etc to cause chemical changes in your brain and body? Feeling acidity? Here watch this video ad for sneakers that also cures acidity!

i never said believe everything and that they are right about everything .. if you go to my past posts i have repeatedly bashed up those religious dogmas .. that is why i was never debating here because on 1 side i was bashing those religious dogmas and on other side i was bashing those science dogmas..
but investigate into yoga and Buddhism .. its not a religion based on a made up story ..
its a practical science !!! you do the experiments you get the results end of story.. and science has been investigating this stuff for 50 years and with all these amazing results are all over the places .. you should read that research paper of beyond biofeedback

I've not read this but read about Yoga before. It's a nice physical and mental exercise that tries and finds common ways in which to alter the chemistry of your body for beneficial outcomes. Some get the same results from playing with their kids in a park. Others need to run 5 km, some swim, others can achieve the mental state by reading, thinking absolutely nothing, or trying to solve complex math equations... it's all relative.

that physical exercise is only a part a tiny part of what yoga is .. and sadly the whole west is crazy about this tiny part only and its a widespread myth that yoga is "postures" tell me how can people get results like control their heart beat (fiblerate it and stop it from beating as well ) , stop their pulse from doing other things ?

Your subconscious adds tones and other markers to what you say, and it suggests that you believe that "your" heritage and history is superior to others. It's OK. That's the case for 99.999% of the world, it's actually very, very normal. However, your conscious mind perhaps believes it is unbiased, which isn't the case and seems to make conflicting statements at times.

i never said my heritage is great .. infact believe it or not i was far more conditioned to western oriented thinking than you think .. ( you can give credits to internet, hollywood movies,tv shows etc )
for me whatever i am saying has only been a recent knowledge for me . if you had chatted with me 1 year ago i would have sounded like a lot more like doomgiver does now..

Fake, yes, they weren't batteries at all.

apologies here this point wasn't well searched by me to check if there was any truth in it.. this was an error on my part , thanks for bringing it up ..

Yes, they have. It's the simplest way to build tall. Kids do it, with small blocks. The advantage they had then was making it a national obsession. It was how cricket is to India in Egypt. Thus they were the best at it. Plus it helps to have a million slaves.

It's nice and fantastical to believe that "they" knew and understood things we didn't, but the fact is they knew NOTHING compared to what we know. Look at the proof around you. It will take much more than 2000 years to wipe us clean from the planet. How on earth can you subscribe to an old civilisation knowing about radioactivity and magnetism, and yet leaving no proof of it behind. Where are all the metal structures, why stone? Where are the man-made radioactive pits caused by explosions or bomb creation. Where are the plans engraved. If you were to engrave in stone (bothersome and hard), would you describe your society as cows walking on the streets or Mangalyaan?

yes but that does not explain coral castle, its recent.. and it was build by 1 single man not millions..

No one said they were dumb. However if they came to our world they would not teach us, they would die of mental overload trying to understand way too many new concepts that kids of today take for granted. Thus in that sense, and only that sense, they are dumb comparatively to today's scientists, but still brilliant in their own time.

it is assumed everywhere.. yes they would be mentally overloaded now seeing all this development..
they were definitely ahead in some areas whereas we are ahead in other areas .. i have repeatedly said this .. we are much more advanced than them in material world and they were much more advanced than us mentally and physically ...

Exactly. You have the right understanding now. Think of ALL the movies set in New York and Washington, and how many times the damn White House and Statue of Liberty have been smashed... Until the explosions, those are actually shot in the real cities... then imagination kicks in... it's been that way for as long as we have had language... from cave paintings to the latest Hollywood big budget blockbuster.p

i have always had this understanding from quite long that is why i never bothered to explore into it ever , ( have only watched it maybe twice and that too only parts of it )

There's a chemical reaction that causes you to believe in something. It happens when you are convinced. Every magician on earth right now preys on this. Misdirection, making you feel smart, and then poof, making you feel astounded. That's the way to blow people's minds. Distort reality with tricks. However, it becomes obvious that it's a trick, and that's not someone you believe or follow, that's someone you distrust.

So who or what do you follow? Someone who doesn't make you believe that they're better than you. Not someone who fools you, but someone who makes you believe that others are the fools. Or if not that, then someone who makes you believe that you are improving, you are seeing something that others cannot. The fact that the utter rubbish book, The Secret sold so many million copies is testament to this.

its not at all rubbish in health aspects .. in some cases its far more powerful than drugs ( because when nocebo effect happens it reduces the effects of drugs and medications as well ) if applied successfully as it alters brain chemistry and if you have watched that documentary above regarding placebo effect , you should be coming to the same conclusion already.. if short on time watch the first 10-15 minutes

Higher consciousness, as I've been told by yogis and babas and Buddhists from India and Nepal, is more often what I'd describe as a heightened state of awareness. Yes some states have been described to me as what I can only equate to as being stoned out of your mind. And interestingly, many of them smoke pot to achieve this state of mind... this also makes them super-cool to the current gen, and thus I can see why Yoga and stuff catches on in the West. It's not that it's manifold better than, say jogging and doing mental exercises yourself, but it certainly is cooler, and easier, and also a socially accepted pastime.

taking drugs is an easy way out.. same effects can be achieved but its not under control for normal people .. so they take it in addition to the exercises as a tool.. while others just enjoy the experience and depend on drugs
you should watch the documentary on DMT the spirit molecule...

So what causes people to live in mountains and beg for alms. The need to be different, a little special, impractical? No offense to anyone's beliefs, I'm not saying this choice is a conscious one, just as some kids are obviously doing bad things for attention, some go overboard with good deeds, trying to be always right, overtly honest (to the point of being tattle tails)...

Adults are also as varied: Some do things for others to notice because they feel the need to seem important to the world, while some do things to feel important themselves, and couldn't be bothered what the world thinks.

well i accept that in some cases that's right explanation but i don't expect that for all cases .. plus if somebody is going out to live in mountains to think they are special or different , its only a matter of time before their mind realizes that they are not special, they are living among 1000s of those who think the same so they loose the speciality .. because its all relative ... a movie star will feel special or different only when he is out with fans , when he is acting with other stars he won't feel special or different than other similar co stars because they are as famous and rich as they are... you don't feel different or special when you are with similar friends who are as rich as you are.. you only feel different when you see a poor boy .. same ways for poor people .. they don't feel that they are poor in villages .. its only when they see the big cities and rich people that they feel different or poor.. i respectfully disagree with you here that's the case for all cases

That's wonderful and rare if you can pull it off. But it's important to not remain a fence-sitter if you want to get somewhere. No harm in heading down a wrong path and digging deeper, that way if you're wrong, at least you learnt what NOT to believe... Most people become atheists this way, fyi. I haven't met an atheist who hasn't first dug deep into the religion of his/her upbringing looking for answers and eventually finding disappointment... of course some go on to just join science and treat it as a religion, which is also wrong... However, use logic, try simple answers before complex ones, and demand proof and repeat-ability, and you will generally be happier with the answers you get... or so I have experienced for myself...

well i keep that as a moto .. its normal to fall out sometimes like i did with the battery part but since i am not a believer i have no problem in discarding that stuff and accepting error on my part .. if tomorrow i find something that contradicts what i am saying now i would be happy to discard this as well but until that i am all into exploring this stuff more and not regard as non sense which i do with all those made up religious crap .. and thats why i repeatedly said i am not believing until i have the experience myself..

yes i can understand it and i agree most atheist are actually better in religious knowledge than those believers because they have explored it but since it wasn't logical for them they now have a grudge against that ( for conditioning them ) and rightly so because most of it isn't logical and not even a good fantasy and have too many contradictions ..

i understand you might be time crunched in your busy schedule , but before you reply, i would really really really hope that you just go through this 1 video ( it will save time than googling up and researching 1 case at a time )

"Is Consciousness Produced by the Brain?" by Bruce Greyson - YouTube

others can only give arguments based on work of others & clearly you don't have the advantage in that area(in your own words mainstream science outweigh fringe science).Science will never stay the same does not mean you can say everything science teaches today is wrong.[/b]

i never said mainstream outweighs fringe science or it is any superior .. science is a process ...

einstein relativity theory was a fringe science at first
so was quantum physics a fringe science at first and einstein comment "God does not play dice"
50 years from now what i am talking will be mainstream science ... because all evidence is leading that way

well it does not mean everything that science teaches us today is wrong , .. but this "total materialistic view" will totally change, which has been changed a lot by quantum physics but still..

 

[whitestar_999]

Until [MENTION=1]Raaabo[/MENTION] has some free time i will hold down the fort.

no what whitestar99 said was totally invalid and i refuted him with wikipedia quotes .. i am not talking about brain death at all .. i am talking about clinical death .. there is a big difference and you can read up my subsequent post about it..

seriously!you are countering some scientific studies with wikipedia quotes.You are contradicting yourself again.when brain stops functioning 100% it is brain death else clinical death,as simple as that.It also means that all those resuscitated persons did it with some kind of brain activity(aka not 0% brain activity).You claim scientists don't understand brain completely but yet you seem to believe 100% the accuracy of brain activity recording machines & i am sure you know all machines have a limitation of some max & min value.We are talking about neurons inside brain here which emit electronic pulses & who knows what can happen when a few dozens fire simultaneously in a clinical death(human brain has trillions of these neurons) but we do know that there were some active neurons because 0 active neurons=100% brain death.

Since you seems to have no problem giving pseudo scientific statements let me give some too.What you call NDE/consciousness is actually an evolutionary process hard coded into our DNA which only comes into action in extreme cases of NDE/clinical experience.it is a survival instinct that prompts few surviving neurons to fire in a pattern most deeply ingrained in memory(aka loved ones) along with any input from sensory organs to keep themselves in a processing state(or to avoid going them into an idle/death state) & since all humans are basically same at DNA level that means all NDE experiences will have some similarities.You will now say that what about those who have their eyes closed then i say Gestalt psychology,meaning brain can construct a full scenario without necessarily having all components(or in other words it can assume very well based on incomplete info from sensory organs).Do note all of these terms are established main stream science but what i am saying is just speculation.Now compare it with yours statements of speculation based on non-mainstream science,need i say more.

P.S.The difference between you & me is that i refuse to believe what you say but 50 years from now if someone make a machine to measure soul power(& certified by main stream science,fringe science if correct can be accepted by it like you said) i will not even take a second to switch over,you on the other hand will say the same things if 50 years from now no one has been able to make that machine(aka wait another 50 years).

 

[skeletor]

i was not emotional ..
far from it .. i actually wanted to have a way out, because it was starting to disturb my plans and taking too much time .. this sounded like a great exit..
doing this way i can fool my subconscious into not visiting and breaking the pattern of visiting digit.in .. no past posts /no id = no desire to visit or indulge into further interaction

so you see my evil plans

What you did is something detrimental to what forums stand for. Wrong thing to do actually. Misuse of the right to edit and delete.

 

[Raaabo]

I'll watch the video tomorrow when I have time, but I think the short answer is that you prefer magical explanations to boring logical ones. Here's a boring answer to a question you're asking:
Coral Castle Busted -- Interesting but not Anti-Gravity

Magic is so much more fun, but the fact is we have been tricking others for hundreds of thousands of years now, because we all love a show! Watching, or putting on one, it doesn't matter.

 

[singleindian]

Until [MENTION=1]Raaabo[/MENTION] has some free time i will hold down the fort.

seriously!you are countering some scientific studies with wikipedia quotes.You are contradicting yourself again.when brain stops functioning 100% it is brain death else clinical death,as simple as that.It also means that all those resuscitated persons did it with some kind of brain activity(aka not 0% brain activity).You claim scientists don't understand brain completely but yet you seem to believe 100% the accuracy of brain activity recording machines & i am sure you know all machines have a limitation of some max & min value.We are talking about neurons inside brain here which emit electronic pulses & who knows what can happen when a few dozens fire simultaneously in a clinical death(human brain has trillions of these neurons) but we do know that there were some active neurons because 0 active neurons=100% brain death.

Since you seems to have no problem giving pseudo scientific statements let me give some too.What you call NDE/consciousness is actually an evolutionary process hard coded into our DNA which only comes into action in extreme cases of NDE/clinical experience.it is a survival instinct that prompts few surviving neurons to fire in a pattern most deeply ingrained in memory(aka loved ones) along with any input from sensory organs to keep themselves in a processing state(or to avoid going them into an idle/death state) & since all humans are basically same at DNA level that means all NDE experiences will have some similarities.You will now say that what about those who have their eyes closed then i say Gestalt psychology,meaning brain can construct a full scenario without necessarily having all components(or in other words it can assume very well based on incomplete info from sensory organs).Do note all of these terms are established main stream science but what i am saying is just speculation.Now compare it with yours statements of speculation based on non-mainstream science,need i say more.

P.S.The difference between you & me is that i refuse to believe what you say but 50 years from now if someone make a machine to measure soul power(& certified by main stream science,fringe science if correct can be accepted by it like you said) i will not even take a second to switch over,you on the other hand will say the same things if 50 years from now no one has been able to make that machine(aka wait another 50 years).

i wonder why so called people who experienced it see similar or same things such as they see their own body from a distance or floating in space ,thy see flashes of light.all similar.why can't go other places? u r out of ur body,u can go anywhr u want?

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i never said mainstream outweighs fringe science or it is any superior .. science is a process ...

einstein relativity theory was a fringe science at first
so was quantum physics a fringe science at first and einstein comment "God does not play dice"
50 years from now what i am talking will be mainstream science ... because all evidence is leading that way

well it does not mean everything that science teaches us today is wrong , .. but this "total materialistic view" will totally change, which has been changed a lot by quantum physics but still..

relativity theory is a "fringe science",thts disgrace to the brilliant scientist .

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[MENTION=138559]rish[/MENTION],is this coral castle u talking about?

*www.livescience.com/41075-coral-castle.html

 

[whitestar_999]

flashes of light,press the edge of your eye(one near to nose) & you will instantly see a light flash near the opposite edge of eye(don't do it often).as for going anywhere part read my pseudo scientific explanation again,your own image is the most basic visual input available to process as it is a part of your "self" & given very limited amount of neuron processing power available this & white space seems to be the only available options.

 

[singleindian]

World First As Message Sent From Brain To Brain

may be we will be able to communicate through brain signal.if this goes mainstream,i wonder wht the possibilities r? no mobile and computer in future.

 

[rish1]

Until [MENTION=1]Raaabo[/MENTION] has some free time i will hold down the fort.

seriously!you are countering some scientific studies with wikipedia quotes.You are contradicting yourself again.when brain stops functioning 100% it is brain death else clinical death,as simple as that.It also means that all those resuscitated persons did it with some kind of brain activity(aka not 0% brain activity).You claim scientists don't understand brain completely but yet you seem to believe 100% the accuracy of brain activity recording machines & i am sure you know all machines have a limitation of some max & min value.We are talking about neurons inside brain here which emit electronic pulses & who knows what can happen when a few dozens fire simultaneously in a clinical death(human brain has trillions of these neurons) but we do know that there were some active neurons because 0 active neurons=100% brain death.

i am not countering any scientific study.. what i am countering is your wrong understanding of the subject

you didn't get it what i was trying to say.. please understand

its like this ..
you have a laptop which is made up of several parts like cpu , motherboard , ram etc..

ok now you have a laptop that is switched on and working fine
when you switch off the laptop their is no display on the screen and nothing is working right ?

this is clinical death .. now laptop has stopped working, it has stopped functioning .. there is no electrical current running into it..
watching a movie on this non functioning , powered off laptop is not possible

But does that mean that the laptop is broken ? does that mean the CPu is broken , does that mean the ram is broken/dead ? No.....

this is clinical death .. the functioning of the system as a whole has stopped, individual cells ( ram, cpu,gpu ) are still alive... if i power it on again it will start working again as a system and i can watch movie on it ... and hence resuscitation is powering on the system again..

When these individual cells ( ram , cpu , gpu ) start dying or are malfunctioned then it is not possible to turn on the system.. this is brain death

after certain minutes of switching off the system ( clinical death ) the individual parts starts malfunctioning and die .. like if you had 2 x 4gb ram previously now 1 x 4gb has gone dead and malfunctioned .. if you power on the system now it will start working again but with reduced capacity than before ( this is brain injury )

still powering on the system after 1 ram has gone dead, is still possible .. as time passes by more and more individual cells start dying ( ram , gpu , hard disk all start to malfunction 1 by 1 ).. until in the end it is not at all possible to power on the system again ... this is brain death

Now what you and rabooo sir are saying that it might be that the brain is still functioning that is not detectable by our current technology .. it is possible

so it might be true that when you have switched off your laptop there is some current or static charge left in the circuitry of gpu , cpu etc...
but that small charge won't allow you to watch the movie and after you have

so at clinical death ( system switched off ) these people are reporting seeing images and hearing sounds and that too larger than life like experience meaning they are even more powerful than the most powerful dreams they have had ) like difference between a 360p video and a 4k video

this would require way too much brain power ... its not possible to have a 4k movie run with some low level electricity that is not even measurable ... it would require way too much power...

Now when i said rabooo sir point was not valid because...

in dreams/ illusions the whole system is functioning and is powered on ... and hence it is able to create these movies ..

i hope you understood it..

Since you seems to have no problem giving pseudo scientific statements let me give some too.

i have no problem if your theory is reasonable, even i would stick with that one , since you will be giving a more logical theory , until then i am stuck with mine sorry.. but your theory is even more illogical than mine...

What you call NDE/consciousness is actually an evolutionary process hard coded into our DNA which only comes into action in extreme cases of NDE/clinical experience.it is a survival instinct that prompts few surviving neurons to fire in a pattern most deeply ingrained in memory(aka loved ones) along with any input from sensory organs to keep themselves in a processing state(or to avoid going them into an idle/death state) & since all humans are basically same at DNA level that means all NDE experiences will have some similarities.

Let me understand this are you saying consciousness is in DNA and comes into action in survival time ?
survival instinct ? then how can people have the same experience while they are in Sleep , take drugs , some can do it at will as well ? if a survival instinct it should be accompanied by fight or flight response.. yet people are much calm ... so survival instinct is hereby not logical ..

if it is a part of dna .. what about those people that don't have the whole cerebral cortex (virtually no brain ) , and have only brain stem and yet they are perfectly conscious with normal intelligence... , if it was in Dna then the consciousness of these people would be severely affected..
what about the cases where those people who have had dementia for so long , surprisingly on their last day , they regained perfect consciousness ( not at the last moment ) became peaceful, talked with their relatives and then died

this is not even placebo , because this patient didn't take any dug or placebo or did anything at all.. and i think even dna doesn't spontaneously changes like this..

and if it is a survival instinct it should be accompanied with fight or flight response , fear etc.. yet people are perfectly calm in those cases induced by drugs and in sleep and will.. so survival instinct part goes out of window

You will now say that what about those who have their eyes closed then i say Gestalt psychology,meaning brain can construct a full scenario without necessarily having all components(or in other words it can assume very well based on incomplete info from sensory organs).Do note all of these terms are established main stream science but what i am saying is just speculation.Now compare it with yours statements of speculation based on non-mainstream science,need i say more.[/b]

yes you need to say more i have doubts regarding this explanation

sorry gestalt psychology needs a high functioning brain as well , if it accesses memory, constructs great visuals and sounds, and makes meaning out of those scenery it should light up in brain as well but it doesn't ..

had you watched the video i gave you to watch , you would yourself had discarded this dna + gestalt theory..

P.S.The difference between you & me is that i refuse to believe what you say but 50 years from now if someone make a machine to measure soul power(& certified by main stream science,fringe science if correct can be accepted by it like you said) i will not even take a second to switch over,you on the other hand will say the same things if 50 years from now no one has been able to make that machine(aka wait another 50 years).

i have no problem , like i said before i am not convincing you at all ..
but really the machine part disappointed me a lot since i had already given these links in my previous posts .. maybe you didn't read .. please atleast read what i am saying if you want to have a discussion here i'll post it again for you

Chi Life Force Energy - Wilhelm Reich ****** MUST SEE ****** - YouTube

WILHELM REICH'S BION-BIOGENESIS DISCOVERIES - EXPERIMENTAL VERIFICATION - YouTube

In December 1940 Reich wrote to Albert Einstein saying he had a scientific discovery he wanted to discuss, and in January 1941 visited Einstein at his home in Princeton, where they talked for nearly five hours. He told Einstein that he had discovered a "specific biologically effective energy which behaves in many respects differently to all that is known about electromagnetic energy." He said it could be used against disease, and as a weapon "in the fight against the Fascist pestilence." (Einstein had signed a letter to President Roosevelt in August 1939 to warn of the danger of Nazi Germany building an atom bomb, and had urged the United States to set up its own research project.) Einstein agreed that if an object's temperature could be raised without an apparent heating source, as Reich was suggesting, it would be "a bomb."[96]

Reich was much encouraged by the meeting and hoped he would be invited to join Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study.[96] During their next meeting he gave Einstein a small accumulator, and over the next 10 days Einstein performed experiments with it in his basement, which involved taking the temperature above, inside and near the device, and stripping it down to its Faraday cage to compare temperatures. He observed a rise in temperature, which Reich argued was caused by orgone.[97] One of Einstein's assistants pointed out that the temperature was lower on the floor than on the ceiling.[98] Einstein concluded that the effect was simply due to the temperature gradient inside the room. "Through these experiments I regard the matter as completely solved," he wrote to Reich on 7 February 1941.[99]

Reich responded with a 25-page letter in which he tried to change Einstein's mind.[100] To rule out the influence of convection he told Einstein he had introduced a horizontal plate above the accumulator, wrapped it in a blanket, suspended it freely in the room, buried it underground and placed it outside. He wrote that in all these circumstances the temperature difference remained, and was in fact more marked in the open air.[101] Einstein did not respond to this or to Reich's future correspondence – Reich would write regularly reporting the results of his experiments – until Reich threatened three years later to publish their previous exchange. Einstein replied that he could not devote any further time to the matter and asked that his name not be misused for advertising purposes. Reich believed that Einstein's change of heart was part of a conspiracy of some kind, perhaps related to the communists, or prompted by the rumours that Reich was ill. Reich published the correspondence in 1953 as The Einstein Affair

See we are already 70 years Behind ( if his devices work ) ... this man did wonders for us to even built experimental devices to measure this soul power or energy whatever it is.. but yet he was back-lashed in that time period , watch the documentary first ... its really a sad tale..

now i am not an electrical engineer and don't know much about electronics but can anybody explain is it possible to have any fake electrical device made up that can change readings on the needle when in contact with different objects, and have different readings for different objects ?

An introduction to Measuring Orgone Energy - YouTube

I AM 100 % doubtful about this device and awaiting answer -- , totally clueless about this

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i wonder why so called people who experienced it see similar or same things such as they see their own body from a distance or floating in space ,thy see flashes of light.all similar.why can't go other places? u r out of ur body,u can go anywhr u want?

good question i don't know ask them..

relativity theory is a "fringe science",thts disgrace to the brilliant scientist .

did you even read the whole sentence you quoted ? .. didn't you read the part "AT FIRST"

[MENTION=138559]rish[/MENTION],is this coral castle u talking about?

Mystery of the Coral Castle Explained

yes but there were valid complaints against that book which you can find in the comments as well.. and that offers no explanation at all..
all the guy of the book is saying he did it with hard work .. cashing on the name of that coral castle ..

the door of the coral castle broke .. and the repair crew couldn't even fix it properly with new tech.. they fixed it but it does not work as good as it used to be earlier... let alone building a whole castle. ..

 

[singleindian]

Not relating to this,people blindly take religion and natural medicine like ayurveda and chinese medicine that it will cure any disease

Eg: one of my relative who had joint pain went for ayurveda treatment inspite of everyone telling her to go to bone and joint hospital for treatment.her pain in joint remained the same.she thn went to chinese thing and some treatment with clay or mud.thn pain got worse,finally she went to hospital,thn thy found out was she have cancer and the chinese treatment whr thy inserted small metal rods caused serious damage and her leg is amputed and she is now in last stage of cancer.the doctors said had she came early all this wouldn't happen

 

[rish1]

I'll watch the video tomorrow when I have time, but I think the short answer is that you prefer magical explanations to boring logical ones. Here's a boring answer to a question you're asking:
Coral Castle Busted -- Interesting but not Anti-Gravity

you wouldn't have posted had you read the article or comments of that article , please read yourself, i read it long ago .. you are doing the same mistake here i did with Baghdad battery ..

and besides i don't prefer magical explanation at all .. it was his words.. "I understand the laws of weight and leverage and I know the secrets of the people who built the pyramids (being those at the site at Giza in Egypt)"

its his claim not mine ..

and he rolled out 4 papers on magnetism and electricity as well showing how the standard model of electromagnetism was wrong..

Magic is so much more fun, but the fact is we have been tricking others for hundreds of thousands of years now, because we all love a show! Watching, or putting on one, it doesn't matter.

magic is something we don't understand yet.. science is something we understand.. your PC/mobile is no less than Magic.. go back 200 years ago with that mobile or PC
and people there will consider you an alien with magical stuff...

everything is science.... imagine in future what could be the implications of orgone energy ( if true )... please watch that reich documentary first as well..

everyone lets not resort to personal attacks here ..

 

[whitestar_999]

ok now you have a laptop that is switched on and working fine
when you switch off the laptop their is no display on the screen and nothing is working right ?
this is clinical death .. now laptop has stopped working, it has stopped functioning .. there is no electrical current running into it..
watching a movie on this non functioning , powered off laptop is not possible

This is brain/total death not clinical death because there is no electrical current running through it,it can be turned on again because it is a machine unlike brain.Clinical death would be a dead cpu but rest other working parts meaning you can replace the part & turn on the laptop.In both cases it can be turned on after being off.This is completely wrong analogy.You are the one who is not getting it.

so at clinical death ( system switched off ) these people are reporting seeing images and hearing sounds and that too larger than life like experience meaning they are even more powerful than the most powerful dreams they have had ) like difference between a 360p video and a 4k video

again with wrong analogy.do dreams come with some sort of HD certification telling this dream image you are seeing is 4k & this is 360p so you are having "larger than life experience at 4k"? how do you know how many neurons it takes to create a white figure floating in sky but we do know that it takes a lot more neurons to do anything that can withstand a serious scrutiny(aka thinking to figure out solution of a complex differential equation that can be verified by others).As for gestalt psychology again why do you think it needs detectable brain activity,do you know someone who has figured out how many minimum no. of neurons it takes to use gestalt concept to create an image?

how can people have the same experience while they are in Sleep , take drugs , some can do it at will as well

that just means drugs induce similar chemical reactions in any human brain resulting in similar dreams & now you are equaling normal sleep dreams with drugged state,really not helping your case.As for doing it at will as they say think about something hard enough & you will probably get dreams about that thing,if somebody wants to be visited by lady in white hard enough he will be visited by lady in white in dreams,many such cases of mental patients are there.

if it is a part of dna .. what about those people that don't have the whole cerebral cortex (virtually no brain ) , and have only brain stem and yet they are perfectly conscious with normal intelligence... , if it was in Dna then the consciousness of these people would be severely affected..

I hope you know that dna is the building block of every living cell & every part of humans consists of those cells.In fact you can say that survival instinct of these cells make them work harder than an average person's cells to compensate for the loss in quantity by increasing quality.

See we are already 70 years Behind ( if his devices work ) ... this man did wonders for us to even built experimental devices to measure this soul power or energy whatever it is.. but yet he was back-lashed in that time period , watch the documentary first ... its really a sad tale..

if this is true then it means either Einstein,considered by many as the greatest scientific mind,chose to neglect the "soul power" which is again considered by many as something of a holy grail of religion & science(those who believe in both god & science) or it was a fake/mistake.I(& any other rational person) will place his bet on latter not former.

go back 200 years ago with that mobile or PC and people there will consider you an alien with magical stuff...

go back 200 years ago & you would still find people claiming to possess telepathy & soul power.

This is clearly pointless so no more stretching it from my side.

 

[Raaabo]

Mystery of the Coral Castle Explained

The Mysterious Coral Castle: A Fanciful Myth

See a pattern? This is obviously a tool to argue and try and put skeptics and logicians in their place, and thus an army of believers will attack any article about it. An election was Just won using those very techniques...

The problem with science today is that no one wants to do any work that isn't funded. And getting the results that are expected are important to keep said funding going.

It's easier for what you call mainstream science, because expectations are less wacky. The LHC can go years without finding anything, because so many have invested in it.

That video you posted earlier, made me laugh a little at the beginning. I haven't seen the whole thing just the first 2 points, and I already caught him lying. Well, not lying, but definitely concealing the truth. He makes it sound like the girl with the missing cerebellum was just another normal human, when searching for it shows that about 8/9 cases of people without that have been found, all of them show varying levels of mental problems, and physical disabilities - needing support to walk, etc. But they are functional human beings, yes, they can understand languages, but have problem pronouncing etc. So yes. It's almost miraculous that their brains, as they developed from babies, were able to pick up some functions of the missing part, but it wasn't just a regular college girl who no one could tell apart from anyone else.. the way its described in that Video...

Half truths are as good as lies. If he'd have shown her picture and shown a clip of her talking everyone wouldn't be as moved or startled, and it wouldn't be as good a "show".

The problem is that when you're the head of a department that is doing studies in NDE and fringe stuff, you HAVE to find something soon, or else funding will get cut... this may not be what's happening here, and perhaps everything is genuine, but knowing human nature and seeing small clues like how something is presented... you should get the idea.

Did you read the other NDE study that happened? The one you pointed to earlier? Of all 2060/whatever people, ONE, and Only ONE seemed a "credible" source, because he heard a machine that makes a noise only once every 3 minutes after his heart stopped. It didn't say that there were many pictures and things placed in the room specifically out of the view of the patient, like high on a shelf to see if the "out of body" typical looking down at yourself experience could spot those weird pictures that can only be seen from a height in the room... and nothing. Not one patient saw that... including the ones who claimed out of body experiences, not one actually passed their own test... so this hearing of a sound was just one person and it wasn't even what they were testing for... its like saying I'm looking for good Doctors but hey, i'll hire a fast food delivery boy while I'm waiting...

Not only that, if you dig further, there is some confusion. Some people say that the same person who was used in a previous study is the one who is the only positive in this study. But the problem is he is interviewed a year later, or something, and that means
There's bound to be dilution of the truth, and he may have visited a hospital several times later and heard that machine beep, and have clouded mixed memories. Ideally you interview them as soon as they wake up, and not a year later...

Just saying, approach all such things as a skeptic just to be safe.

Do that with Coral Castle, what's more likely, that it's a hoax that's used to wow everyday Americans, but isn't worth the trouble of debunking by real scientists. Who cannot demand to debunk either, since it's not government owned property.

Or

Some guy who says, HIMSELF, in his notes about what he did and how he used pulleys is LYING, and the urban legend of him being able to levitate stones is true... because that's what is the better show...

 

[Faun]

and he rolled out 4 papers on magnetism and electricity as well showing how the standard model of electromagnetism was wrong..

Don't you think in this age of internet and cut throat competition in scientific communities it will be much easier for him to prove it on a global scale and get the nobel prize ? I am assuming that there are scientists on opposing side of standard model of electromagnetism. It's just that they need more convincing proof. And if the proof is not substantial then it equates to nothing more that just rolled out piece of 4 papers.

I know that you will probably not waver from your stance. Not when you are on defensive mode. May be one day on your own will, you will.

 

[Raaabo]

I missed out on reading the bits about people getting better before dying. Sorry, been busy and sick.

It's actually more common than you think. The problem is (again a huge complaint about science today), the psychologist is an "expert" only in psychology, and thus dare not make any statements out of his realm. Plus he doesn't want to share honours with anyone else, and certainly not a physician or surgeon, etc. So he won't ask them for advice or help. Plus his paper has to be vetted by other psychiatrists and not a general board of varied medical skills personnel.

Thus his explanation is ONLY psychiatry based. Now if he happens to also be paid to find wacky things, then he will come up with a theory that the brain is imperfect, and towards death, the "consciousness" tells the brain to F.O. And takes things into its own hands and shows up with crystal clear memories. See. Here's an alzheimers patient who got better just before dying to prove it...

OK, great. But is consciousness also in my kidneys? People suffering from all sorts of ailments such as final stage cancer, AIDS, and even Swine Flu, get better before they die. Not everyone, but it's common. And for many illnesses. So the consciousness awakens a person's kidney. And makes it function better? Now what about a cat? My cat passed away from kidney disease in June, and she got better before she died too... what cosmic magic caused that? She was mentally the same cat throughout, only her physical activity levels indicated getting worse or better.

Someone suggested a last ditch effort of the body to try and survive.. isn't that more probable than cosmic vibrations of magical auras? Maybe it's the body giving up... laying down its arms. WBCs and other defense mechanisms stopping the fighting. When wars are won in real life, there is peace, almost a kind of serenity. People emerge onto the streets again, there's no bombing or gunfire, it's quiet, but someone has won and it could be an invading power, and you could be slaves, but for now, it's peaceful...

 

[rish1]

Mystery of the Coral Castle Explained

The Mysterious Coral Castle: A Fanciful Myth

See a pattern? This is obviously a tool to argue and try and put skeptics and logicians in their place, and thus an army of believers will attack any article about it. An election was Just won using those very techniques...

did you read the article and the comments below it ? someone already posted this link earlier ... i have been through all these articles already quite long ago
after reading these articles itself i came to conclusion it remains unexplained till now... before this i used to think it was a hoax already solved ..

Some guy who says, HIMSELF, in his notes about what he did and how he used pulleys is LYING, and the urban legend of him being able to levitate stones is true... because that's what is the better show...

you are mistaking the facts here ? he never explained how he did it .. and only gave clues ... that notes/book is not written by himself , it is written by his friend.. and its his description how he might have done it.. edward never told anyone
use of pulleys is no secret it has been photographed .. its not without a reason those levitation theory exist .. he believed all matter is magnet as mentioned in his paper .. if you assume thats true and you know how to change the polarity of those magnets inside the rocks , it will automatically repeal from the ground as if levitating, or atleast make stones lighter enough to be able to allow it to move .. plus there were some eyewitness that saw levitating stones ( which amounts to nothing ) well thats the theory , whether true or not who knows until someone figures it out..

The problem with science today is that no one wants to do any work that isn't funded. And getting the results that are expected are important to keep said funding going.

It's easier for what you call mainstream science, because expectations are less wacky. The LHC can go years without finding anything, because so many have invested in it.

yes that's very true , some of the researchers might skew or make up the data to get more funding ..

That video you posted earlier, made me laugh a little at the beginning. I haven't seen the whole thing just the first 2 points, and I already caught him lying. Well, not lying, but definitely concealing the truth. He makes it sound like the girl with the missing cerebellum was just another normal human, when searching for it shows that about 8/9 cases of people without that have been found, all of them show varying levels of mental problems, and physical disabilities - needing support to walk, etc. But they are functional human beings, yes, they can understand languages, but have problem pronouncing etc. So yes. It's almost miraculous that their brains, as they developed from babies, were able to pick up some functions of the missing part, but it wasn't just a regular college girl who no one could tell apart from anyone else.. the way its described in that Video...

cerebellum ? He never talks about cerebellum

of course these are rare cases as he mentions beforehand

1st is of a girl without Cerebral cortex - is a high school Honors Student who was accepted in College .. and was in the hospital due to an automobile accident she had..

The cerebral cortex plays a key role in memory, attention, perceptual awareness, thought, language, and consciousness.

Cerebral cortex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

see the importance of cerebral cortex ..

Half truths are as good as lies. If he'd have shown her picture and shown a clip of her talking everyone wouldn't be as moved or startled, and it wouldn't be as good a "show".

how was she able to even get to college is a mystery..

The problem is that when you're the head of a department that is doing studies in NDE and fringe stuff, you HAVE to find something soon, or else funding will get cut... this may not be what's happening here, and perhaps everything is genuine, but knowing human nature and seeing small clues like how something is presented... you should get the idea.

i 100 % agree with you on this , and i won't be surprised if he was maybe manipulating the data .. this is human nature .. under pressure one looks for various means to achieve the task .. .. maybe he might have 4-5 genuine cases mixed with 4-5 made up exaggerated cases maybe not , but at least this wasn't in these[b/] cases ..

Did you read the other NDE study that happened? The one you pointed to earlier? Of all 2060/whatever people, ONE, and Only ONE seemed a "credible" source, because he heard a machine that makes a noise only once every 3 minutes after his heart stopped. It didn't say that there were many pictures and things placed in the room specifically out of the view of the patient, like high on a shelf to see if the "out of body" typical looking down at yourself experience could spot those weird pictures that can only be seen from a height in the room... and nothing. Not one patient saw that... including the ones who claimed out of body experiences, not one actually passed their own test... so this hearing of a sound was just one person and it wasn't even what they were testing for... its like saying I'm looking for good Doctors but hey, i'll hire a fast food delivery boy while I'm waiting...

Not only that, if you dig further, there is some confusion. Some people say that the same person who was used in a previous study is the one who is the only positive in this study. But the problem is he is interviewed a year later, or something, and that means
There's bound to be dilution of the truth, and he may have visited a hospital several times later and heard that machine beep, and have clouded mixed memories. Ideally you interview them as soon as they wake up, and not a year later...

ok i have read the discussions on both side that has happened after the study has conducted..

first out of 2000 only 146 patients survived .. and out of those 146 around 45% had some awareness , and out of those 45 % only some were able to remember the experience
second the experiment that you were talking about regarding objective verification, that experiment was not set up in this case... so this wasn't there

there were 2 cases who had visual and auditory collection during this time period .. only 1 was objectively verifiable there..

in addition to the auditory part , he was able to describe a doctors face who was bald and behind curtain , and instantly recognized when he met him the next day..

now the part where it gets doubtful is the interview happened after 1 year... this does not makes the case fake .. because in previous studies it has been shown that memories related to NDE has much less chance of getting distorted or subject to change in 7 or 8 years than normal dreams and memories.. this was still 1 year..
the more intense the experience is the harder it is for someone to forget it or distort it ( ofcourse it can still be done).. and NDE experience being the most alive a person can ever have , its less likely..
this patient was not the one from the previous study
but but but i think it looses that full proof objectiveness that science demands , and i think this is the part where this case gets weakened due to time gap .. i guess we will have to wait for the second round of this study to either prove or disprove it..

Just saying, approach all such things as a skeptic just to be safe.
Do that with Coral Castle, what's more likely, that it's a hoax that's used to wow everyday Americans, but isn't worth the trouble of debunking by real scientists. Who cannot demand to debunk either, since it's not government owned property.

i approached it with skepticism only that's why i considered it as a hoax at first ... but when i read those 2 articles explanation long ago along with some of the crazy youtube theories and there was none other i came to conclusion it doesn't explain much at all.. which you should be having the same conclusion as well.. at best you can say it remains unresolved if you don't want to accept his own clues and his theory on magnets and electricity ... if i was a magic believer i would have said that he did it with mumbo jumbo superpowers.. but i resorted to the explanation and clues given by him .. and like i have repeatedly said that i am sticking to that explanation only because there is none other..

many have tried explaining but none have succeeded.. even if it is not a government property , its open to general public.. how hard it would be to have a visit by 2-3 scientists observe it as it is fully open to observation and end this mystery once and for all , and if they explain this then they can explain pyramids of giza as well ? and yes they have visited the place , researchers, engineers, scientists , even government i think that is why they have the data regarding how much the weight is in it of individual stones and weight of whole castle.. .. i seriously doubt it that castle was built for wowing people or earning money at all, he says he built it for his long lost love " sweet sixteen".. like taj mahal type love story..
there are youtubers replicating his stuff 1 device he used was an old perpetual motion holder this one ,

Ed's flywheel - YouTube

its only now that these guys are able to create these perpetual motion holder and are duplicating his work..

Emery Version - Leedskalnin Perpetual Motion Holder - KeelyNet 06/05/03

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Don't you think in this age of internet and cut throat competition in scientific communities it will be much easier for him to prove it on a global scale and get the nobel prize ? I am assuming that there are scientists on opposing side of standard model of electromagnetism. It's just that they need more convincing proof. And if the proof is not substantial then it equates to nothing more that just rolled out piece of 4 papers.

he died around 50-60 years ago.. but he has this coral castle built , and his perpetual motion holder being replicated today by others doesn't that lends a bit credibility to him ? people are digging into his stuff whatever clues he gave..

I know that you will probably not waver from your stance. Not when you are on defensive mode. May be one day on your own will, you will.

why won't i waver from my stance ? maybe you didn't read all of my previous posts i always mentioned even though i am writing this stuff i don't believe in it until i get further proof ..

i do recognize the possibility of this stuff being all wrong is far greater than being right .. and i know i might be dead wrong , i am just keeping an open mind as an outsider..

wrong/right doesn't matter reaching conclusion myself after researching every bit into it , does .. in the process i would have learned so much stuff, which otherwise i would have ignored ..

P.s- looks like this discussion will never end like this... we will have to wait for some better objective proofs either to prove or disprove it..