*** Science Or God? ***

[Anorion]

They people replace God with Paresh Rawal's char because they need someone to fill God's place. Towards the end also Akshay Kumar says God does not need religion, but people do. Also Mithun's char says these are God fearing people not God loving people.

There are many examples from history, when a certain religion was oppressive to a particular section of society, they chose and converted to another religion instead of just doing away with it.

Yes, it is used for control. It's one of the strong motivations for people to do and be good, and keeping us from anarchy. It might not be altruistic, but it works.

And yep, flying spaghetti monster is as good. People in Australia filled in the religion field in their census forms as "Jediism". Just because it is fictional in origin does not mean the people do not follow the code seriously, and use it for their personal spiritual growth.

 

[Raaabo]

I agree with one thing, there's no need to be abusive [MENTION=102842]doomgiver[/MENTION] it just weakens your argument, and even though you make valid points, people won't take you seriously.

That said, yes, he's right. We have no concrete studies that show how billions would live without the belief of God. For all we know people would stop being idiotic and start helping one another more. I don't know if you noticed, but the world isn't such a great place to live in with religion anyway.

The supposition you make is to assume that since we have corruption, murders, rapes, etc, WITH religion, imagine what would happen WITHOUT it? The assumption is that there are even more people who want to rape murder and pillage, and only a belief in/fear of God stops them. Or the assumption is that being brought up without "fear" of punishment / "incentive" of reward in the after life might cause people to be greedy and totally self-centered.


Yes without Him, there may be uprisings of the poor demanding a better life "now" and the rich will have to shell out more, but that's what's called a first world economy, where people actually matter - and where is atheism most concentrated? First world economies.

Isn't it strange? Think about it. In countries where people are generally better off than the rest of the world and more content for sure, that's where God is less relevant. It's in countries with hardship where he prevails. Now it's easy (almost obvious) to assume that this happens because we only seek God when we do badly, but maybe, just maybe, we do badly because we seek God.

Again I point to all the state of humanity now as proof that it doesn't work. The fear/incentive route is failing. Because those who are corrupt, self-centered, rapists and murderers, will be that with or without religion.

I dare say there will be less murder if there are no religious sentiments to upset, less rape because we will cease to have the teach-that-other-religion's-followers-a-lesson-by-raping-their-women instances, and yes, even less corruption, because there is a certain peace in knowing that all I have now I leave behind, and death is the end.

I don't know who named Atheists "Materialists", but I will assume it's theists. A stroke of genius, it makes all atheists look*materialistic, or basically greedy a$$holes. When the term is supposed to mean people who only believe in physical evidence and not suppositions, and thus live in a material world, and are a material girl (or boy). Sorry couldn't resist.

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] you're thinking like a mediator (pun not intended) between theism and atheism, or applying theist logic to areas they don't apply. It happens often to most of us, because we're all brainwashed into believing some form of theism when growing up, by family or friends, and try and reason based on the goal being one that is ideal.

However, "ideal" is relative, based on where you are now. If 10,000 years from now the earth will be all desert, the ideal human would be one that doesn't need as much water to live. If the future is a water world, we need gills.

This concept of "ideal" is theist in itself, and trying to extrapolate into a "God" or basically just perfection that humans cannot achieve. It's not even a stationary target. Today God could be a 5th dimension being who time doesn't apply to -- why? Because that's what we want to be, or it's what we know we can never be. Then we discover a 5th dimension, and God becomes a 6th dimension being?

Science does that without needing God or idealism, just curiosity, and without shackling people with guilt. It's why it will win over eventually in an educated world... or so we can hope.

As for atheists, you're right, it's almost a belief now. As is science. I prefer logicians because they will think things through logically and question everything, including atheism and science.

I would venture that a world without religion overnight, might end in your apocalyptic nightmare. Like definitive proof finally that God doesn't exist - which isn't going to happen. However a slow and gradually shift to not caring as much is already underway, and that kind of a shift doesn't bring about the atheist-hordes-killing-one-another-for-no-reason that you fear.

I'm an atheist, and I don't have any murderous thoughts or desire to rape or even a desire to cheat, and not even an inordinately high desire to acquire material wealth - just the regular desires of most folk to have a comfortable enough life and the ability to provide my child with toys and stuff. Since I don't believe in the fear/incentive dogma, how do you explain why I don't feel overwhelmed with greed / lust to just do anything I want?

I'd put Jediism for fun too. Doesn't mean I'd take it seriously.

 

[doomgiver]

point 1: im not insulting anyone out of malice, as i said in my post.

point 2: trying to act as if you need a threat of "divine" punishment to keep you in line just exposes you as a shitty human being. does it mean that if god wasnt there, they'd commit all sorts of heinous acts?

point 3: indoctrinating children is the most hideous thing that theists do. kids are forced to worship something they dont even understand from a very early age. give it 10-20 years, i bet most of the urban population wont consider religion to be important.

point 4: sure, there is absence of evidence, but theists are believing that just becasue there isnt any contrary evidence to disprove them, it gives them carte blanche to assert all sorts of nonsense.

in my experience, theists will believe the most ridiculous things as long as it suits their view. they dont use any scientific principles and are doggedly dogmatic (yay alliteration!).

imho, this thread is dead. rish was giving some good points (among other things. hats off sir, for putting up a good fight), but sadly, all those posts are cleaned :/ but nobody seems to be interested in actually putting forward actual evidence or even facts. no, youtube videos of "fake" professors dont count.

 

[whitestar_999]

What actual evidence or facts?If it is science then there is no need & if it is god related then it is not evidence or fact(otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate).This thread is only suitable for philosophical arguments from those on religious side without posting any "evidence or fact".

 

[Anorion]

I would agree only if atheists never interpret facts to suit their own belief systems and they also always are free from confirmation bias

Not all theists are irrational, delusional and have magical thinking. They can still be scientific. Quite a few scientists believe in God, and a few were even priests. One example I can think of is Mendel.

Jedi believe in the force, and strangely enough, even karma. Sure for some it is a joke, not for others.

There have been variants of Hinduism that put man in the center of religion, instead of god, and deny the existence of any supernatural forces.

To me religion is more about the people on earth than any kind of guy in the sky.

 

[Raaabo]

The problem is that religion IS more about the people on Earth - control, keep them in line; not keep them good, but keep them controlled. I wish it was just magic and a guy in the sky, then people wouldn't take it as seriously and we wouldn't have problems.

Yes there have been scientists who don't dispute the existence of a God, or maybe even believe in a God and pray, but what's that got to do with anything? There are many more people who go through rituals to please their family and don't fight religion even though they don't believe in it at all. Yes there may be people who believe in Jediism truly, but more would list it as cool. Just as people are likely to list Eywa as a religion now.

 

[moniker]

I suppose religion was just a set of principles to follow.. To inculcate moral values and to let people know what is good and what is bad and guiding them down the right path.

It is unfortunate how in certain parts of the world religion has mutated into this grotesque, hideous form where people are killing each other in the name of someone who's believed to be hiding behind the clouds. Religion is not even supposed to be about that elusive guy in the first place. There are atheist variants in dharmic religions - You don't necessarily believe in a supernatural power just because you are practicing a religion.

That's why religion is something that is "practiced", it helps in shaping you by guiding you to perform the right deeds. It isn't supposed to be something you just believe in. I might not be a believer, but I still haven't renounced my religion.

 

[Raaabo]

Yoga and workouts? I guess you could technically call any belief system a religion, but that's not what's being debated here. By that definition even science is a religion, or even logical thinking.

If Sachin Tendulkar used to "religiously" practice 8 hours a day, great for him, but it's not a "religion" in the sense were talking of... unless you mean something else, in which case please explain.

 

[rish1]

hello , hope you are doing good .. i have been busy and didn't visit digit since then ( apologies for this id as i changed id pass and my original email id pass ) so in order to reply i had to make this one ..

Now this reply of yours is totally mixed up .. why ?

because you have taken 2 different people and mixed them into 1 ...
you have mixed up edl with reich.. it was not edl that had gone to einstein .. it was reich

Or, science has answered, and the person who even met Einstein and was rejected was just wrong. Science has given the explanations, the people who "believe" in EDL just don't want to listen, expecting an answer to "how could he levitate", and not believing that "He didn't levitate anything, those are school boys with active imaginations playing a prank and making up lies". Since when are schoolboys considered trustworthy witnesses? If schoolboys say they were out walking and were told by Jesus that the world should convert to Born Again Christians, or be prepared to burn in hell, even the Catholics wouldn't believe them... but about Coral Castle, everyone suddenly thinks schoolboys are reliable as steel?


Egyptian pyramid construction techniques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hate quoting wikipedia because the assumption is always that everyone has already read what's on there and needs more info. However, if you read that you will see that the pyramids have already been explained. Not just theory, but practical tests, and with fewer people than is depicted in the egyptian paintings themselves... I mean they told us how, in pictures, inside the very pyramids we wonder about... we still can't believe it?

So, they've shown it for the pyramids, and they've said apply the same logic for everything like this.

no not all major things have been explained yet regarding pyramids , that is why the research is still on , and there is mathematical accuracy to pyramids relating to pie as well , laser like precision placement of stones etc... that is why the theories still exist today and research is on , had all questions been explained , research would have ended already ...

straight from the wikipedia link you have given

"The logistics of construction at the Giza site are staggering when you think that the ancient Egyptians had no pulleys, no wheels, and no iron tools. Yet, the dimensions of the pyramid are extremely accurate and the site was leveled within a fraction of an inch over the entire 13.1-acre base. This is comparable to the accuracy possible with modern construction methods and laser leveling. That's astounding. With their 'rudimentary tools,' the pyramid builders of ancient Egypt were about as accurate as we are today with 20th-century technology"

For coral castle they've said it's using pulleys and loads of spare time and determination, and yes, intricate knowledge of stone work, and even the man who built it said the same... why is it hard to believe then?

[/quote]

once again you are mixed up.. no the man who built did not said that.. he specifically said this

"I understand the laws of weight and leverage and I know the secrets of the people who built the pyramids"

again its not possible with only pulleys ... yes pulleys and other basic tools were used but its only a part of the puzzle , it does not explain how he cut stones with precision ( same thing with pyramids ) , how he placed those super heavy stones perfectly that even a cat 5 hurricane wasn't able to move 1 stone.. and all done by 1 single man ? why is it hard to believe if the guy is genuine and has built this structure as a proof ? maybe benefit of doubt until further proof

Playing devil's advocate, I can say that although walking a little would explain method, it wouldn't explain sustained effort. If i explain the door, you will say now explain the castle, if I explain that the castle took 10 years, you will say but explain the balancing rocks, if I explain that you will find something else.

Fact: No one saw him work.

Fact: No one could prove that he worked alone (He worked at night, he might have had an army, or 7 dwarves, or friends helping him, maybe the butler did it? And, yes maybe he worked alone.)

not a fact .. think logically ..
coral castle was totally mysterious when it was being built , neighbors used to peep while he was working.. with this much hype it was impossible to hide those secret workers or army ..and if it was the case don't you think any of the crew members would have come out and spilled the beans, ?

Fact: No one can prove that he could levitate stones (burden of proof lies with the maker of a fantastic claim)
Levitate a pebble, and I will believe you can levitate a 4 ton stone. Otherwise it's party tricks, like magicians who hide how they do things. He met Einstein... he hungered for validation. Do you honestly believe if he could levitate 5 ton stones he wouldn't levitate them for Einstein and say "HAH! E= humble pie, explain this!"? Instead he'd take some weird metal thing that temperatures fluctuated very mildly with?p

yes no can prove .. i said the witness said it he levitated stones.. the witness is not a scientific proof , and can be accurate or flawed as well.. but you are outrightly dismissing it as nonsense because the witness were teenagers and there were many , not just single 1 who saw it.. eye witness are counted as evidence in court .. levitation or anti gravity theory is just a hypothesis and the reason is not because of the eyewitness alone ,its also because of the 4 papers he published on magnetism .. i have already told you his view on magnetism is totally different and proposes a different theory and as a proof he gives experiment to show some things like perpetual motions holder and other things .. which i have shown you youtube videos earlier of those experiments working .. you are not looking at him neutrally .. and outrightly assuming him as a crackpot..

Think logically please... if he couldn't display to Eistein (he himself wrote about not being accepted and trying again and again to contact Einstein with no luck), also didn't on his deathbed reveal his secret to anyone (except admit it was pulleys and levers), thus he didn't use levitation for the stones.

and no he didn't do it with chi , i never said that.. you can clearly see he has a black box attached to pulleys and wire running through it ..

in his theories he views gravity as a magnetic force and not a seperate force .. thats the reason for that hypothesis and not the eyewitness and its stil possible even that is wrong
nobody has explained it yet.. and even i never use to give much thought on egypt pyramids until i read about coral castle..

and secondly maybe you aren't aware .. that coral castle was moved from its place to another location.. the truck driver was asked to leave the truck and comeback next morning .. but he came after half and hour and saw that those heavy stones were already placed in his truck .. and again while offloading the truck , the truck driver was asked to leave

fact is nobody knows how he did it.. this is an old documentary .. it is presented in a very spooky mysterious fashion and i don't like it about that so avoid that and focus on details and points given in the doc

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15_DQUm94s



please watch this documentary first .. request you not to skip this one please

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14aW2UpgvU

this question was raised by whitestar999 as well regarding einstein ignoring reich

this makes me doubt even einstein.. no offence to the brilliant scientist, i am big fan of einstein as well for his relativity theory ( please think neutrally )

reich made a claim that he can increase the temperature of the object without a heating source.. einstein agreed that if he is able to do that it would be "a bomb"

einstein and reich both discussed the experiment in detail.. then einstein performed the experiment for 10 days

there was a rise in temperature and einstein was puzzled over this , he couldn't think of an explanation and then one of his students pointed out and said it was due to the convection of the room ... then Reich performed experiments and ruled out convection as well by doing the experiment in air , burried under blanket and suspended in air.. in all 3 cases convection was ruled out

the temperature rise effect was still their , but einstein didn't respond or listened , even after repeated mails by reich regarding the details of his findings and experiments .. if you think neutrally that's backing off
einstein was a genius no doubt but he could have simply disproved reich rather than ignoring it outright, especially when einstein previously agreed with reich on his experiments.. he backed off later that actually gives credibility to reich.. had it been any other issue, he shouldn't have accepted and did performed the experiment in the first place.. he also criticized quantum phyiscs as well .. so its not like he was never wrong

So searching for chi forces to levitate 5 ton stones is already out. He didn't. Some boys made it up as a fantastic tale, which he never denied.

If you start a rumour that I have superhuman powers, I'm not so sure I'd want to end that speculation either. I might quite enjoy the attention and mystique.


Now I tried searching for this chap in other texts, and I can't find him, though I found another

Man with tiny brain shocks doctors - health - 20 July 2007 - New Scientist

It's not uncommon, it's a fact that we're only beginning to understand the brain. LIke I said, I wouldn't be totally shocked if we found out we didn't understand anything yet and the world is made up of only chi forces, but please someone prove it before claiming it. At least let it make mathematical sense... Let scientists and mathematicians argue over it for years like big bang or string theory or whatever, and try and punch holes in the math. Let the evidence at least point to part of a theory being right, and no, some rocks on a hill or in someone's backyard aren't evidence. Someone levitating a pebble is, no one seeing and everyone believing in a gimmick and a tourist attraction as the secret truth to the whole world reeks of religion and faith and non-science (or nonsense in short).

some replication of reich theories

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwxKB9IY3Js

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PVnS72IIY8

*www.academia.edu/5848396/In_Defens...ntific_Medical_Community_-_James_DeMeo_et._al

his cloudbusters are easily replicable , as explained by him and people are replicating it google it,

this is from wikipedia

"Some of Reich's observations have been replicated by other researchers. Stefan Müschenich, in his Master's thesis, demonstrated effects of orgone accumulators on test subjects in keeping with Reich's original descriptions, while subjects exposed to a known "dummy box" showed no such effects"

these is a modern Life energy meter that is based on his older theories

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBwyNdGKl_I&list=UUKrZrQ0bJvcDQC9Et6NFU0w

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlDgWYiogeQ&list=UUKrZrQ0bJvcDQC9Et6NFU0w

reviews are there on internet

His theories and experimentation were never even given a proper chance.. just opinion of 2 doctors was enough and published in newspaper.. his books were literally burnt ( the only man in history whose books have been burnt by govt in science community) , and he was jailed .. he was wrong about some things ( UFO etc )and right about somethings( orgone energy ) which can be tested and experimented

and this chi/orgone/prana is not new .. it has been practiced for 1000s of years by kung fu masters,monks , yogis ,

this is not just a bunch of theory that people just simply believe like a religion or brainwashed into.. its a practical science .. perform exercises and get results

But that's what I've been saying for ages. It has to be proven, and it isn't, thus its mumbo-jumbo until proven. And please don't compare relativity to coral castle, because one is a "show" (quite literally, it charges an entrance fee) and the other is mathematics that awes even the greatest minds on the planet, even today.

And mathematics has no suppositions, if you work it out, it always leads somewhere, and logically.

Think about this, they both met, one made a castle of stone the other kind of explained the universe -- how the universe exists stably, how small amounts of matter can destroy a city, and how small amounts of matter can power a city... all this we owe him, good bad and ugly. If he said EDL was a quack, that's a leap of faith most people should take I think.

not right since you assumed 2 people to be 1

but nobody seems to be interested in actually putting forward actual evidence or even facts.

See there is no 100 % objective proof right now .. but that doesn't mean there is not any evidence.. there is too much empirical evidence , legitimate theories , because these things cannot be studied under a laboratory until our technology reaches far far advanced to detect other fields or dimensions

if you are not cynical then its enough to atleast make you open Minded about it, and definitely points in the direction of why materialist dogma of science is false...

you already know i am not defending any sort of god or religion .. like i have previously said my thoughts on religion is just that it has truths in it but its a complete mixed up man made Mess, ,manipulted in its present state, made up to control masses out there .. i consider myself to be anti religious myself .. Panpsychism suits me much more

so you and whitestar want some hard science stuff ?

here it is for you a legitimate theory ..

*www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIyEjh6ef_8

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d5RetvkkuQ

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXTX0IUaOg


Sir Roger penrose is not your average physicist .. see his credibility and achievements

Penrose has been awarded many prizes for his contributions to science. He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of London in 1972. In 1975, Stephen Hawking and Penrose were jointly awarded the Eddington Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society. In 1985, he was awarded the Royal Society Royal Medal. Along with Stephen Hawking, he was awarded the prestigious Wolf Foundation Prize for Physics in 1988. In 1989 he was awarded the Dirac Medal and Prize of the British Institute of Physics. In 1990 Penrose was awarded the Albert Einstein Medal for outstanding work related to the work of Albert Einstein by the Albert Einstein Society. In 1991, he was awarded the Naylor Prize of the London Mathematical Society. From 1992 to 1995 he served as President of the International Society on General Relativity and Gravitation. In 1994, Penrose was knighted for services to science.[32] In the same year he was also awarded an Honorary Degree (Doctor of Science) by the University of Bath.[33] In 1998, he was elected Foreign Associate of the United States National Academy of Sciences. In 2000 he was appointed to the Order of Merit. In 2004 he was awarded the De Morgan Medal for his wide and original contributions to mathematical physics. To quote the citation from the London Mathematical Society:

His deep work on General Relativity has been a major factor in our understanding of black holes. His development of Twistor Theory has produced a beautiful and productive approach to the classical equations of mathematical physics. His tilings of the plane underlie the newly discovered quasi-crystals.[34]

In 2005 Penrose was awarded an honorary doctorate by Warsaw University and Katholieke Universiteit Leuven (Belgium), and in 2006 by the University of York. In 2008 Penrose was awarded the Copley Medal. He is also a Distinguished Supporter of the British Humanist Association and one of the patrons of the Oxford University Scientific Society. In 2011, Penrose was awarded the Fonseca Prize by the University of Santiago de Compostela. In 2012, Penrose was awarded the Richard R. Ernst Medal by ETH Zürich for his contributions to science and strengthening the connection between science and society.

And now coming to the point of Telepathy

see after 100 years of research and with already many positive results(Stargate,sony,PEAR) , despite the pseudo skeptics and debunkers claim its all bullshit , see how research is getting bigger and more and more researchers are doing this stuff

*journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00017/full

simple thing if it was all bullshit as the debunkers and pseudoskeptics claim .. then why is the research in this stuff growing despite there is no funding ? 100 years research already done and still it is not stoping , fbi using psychics for their investigation ?

And No telepathy is not theoritically possible with the Materialist Brain point of view.. that is why there is a big taboo against it and its still not in the mainstream yet
the electrical charges in brain aren't strong enough at all to transmit thought to another person... without invoking some sort of quantumness like in orch or theory

have you looked at reincarnation/past life memories studies ? look at the work of Dr.Ian Stevenson

*blogs.scientificamerican.com/berin...-afterlife-are-we-skeptics-really-just-cynics

there are cases of children remembering their past lifes at age of 2-3 years with distinct recall ... some with birthmarks defects .. like a person shot in head in previous life as a birth mark in his head
person born with half fingers because his fingers were cut in a machine in his past life..

James Leininger

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy1KVuAaKww

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz-fOKoehX8

and many others..

look at NDE experiences .. i know there isn't 100 % objective proof as of yet.. but we already have so many anecdotal evidence reporting they saw their own body , described what was happening in the operation room
what doctors were talking, these people testifying that it was all real and in no way a hallucination or dream

and not only from religious fanatics but from atheists,doctors as well

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8j2g-IsBPQ
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3adbayvKWA
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vj0qKthCgg
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l-nbk_8EII

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSfNSTB-Xd8

No eben alexanders case hasn't been debunked ( that esquire article was pseudo skeptic journalism , which was later criticised)

see the reasearch done on DMT ( this is not just a drug , its a Reality shattering , consciousness expanding drug .. its found in mostly all plants , animals , humans ..

watch the documentary the spirit molecule ..

combine all of this stuff ( NDE , teleapthy, consciousness theory, past life memories/reincarnation,DMT )

and think neutrally where is all the data pointing at ? at least its enough to consider it as a possibility and be open minded about it i am not saying start believing in God or follow religion , heck i myself don't do that but definately there is more to life than just matter and biological robot stuff thats my viewpoint .. whats out there i don't know

Closing thoughts

imho, this thread is dead. rish was giving some good points (among other things. hats off sir, for putting up a good fight),

thanks and hats off to you too it was nice discussing with you ..

I already have said it before i was never debating here .. just wanted to have a simple discussion , although i admit it later got turned into a debate(human nature) but it wasn't my intention at all
this is my last post on the forum probably ( want to move on now already wasted too much time , maybe comeback later someday ), its just that i was and am myself exploring this stuff when i started discussing ..
call me gullible /ignorant / dellusional whatever you want to me call me .. i don't really care and was never here to win an argument.. it was just a reflection of personal exploration in this stuff ..

Anyways thanks [MENTION=1]Raaabo[/MENTION] , [MENTION=102842]doomgiver[/MENTION] [MENTION=126812]whitestar_999[/MENTION] for discussing

hope you have a great time ahead

bye

 

[skeletor]

hello , hope you are doing good .. i have been busy and didn't visit digit since then ( apologies for this id as i changed id pass and my original email id pass ) so in order to reply i had to make this one ..

Old ID merged into the new ID and you again have to use a valid e-mail ID to verify yourself. You won't be able to post until then. So, go to your preferences, enter a valid e-mail and verify.

10 minute e-mails like @trvbm.com are banned.

So, time to use a valid Gmail or Yahoo mail or anything else.

 

[snap]

jeez [MENTION=300899]rish1[/MENTION] why are you so afraid of hearing other ppls view? It's like you don't wanna change your mind and want things to be mysterious/ambiguous even if the proof is there, you post your views and say you don't want any debates/discussion? Atleast [MENTION=102842]doomgiver[/MENTION] reads and replies however brash his replies may be.

 

[rish1]

jeez [MENTION=300899]rish1[/MENTION] why are you so afraid of hearing other ppls view? It's like you don't wanna change your mind and want things to be mysterious/ambiguous even if the proof is there, you post your views and say you don't want any debates/discussion? Atleast [MENTION=102842]doomgiver[/MENTION] reads and replies however brash his replies may be.

hmm .. i don't know where are you getting that perception from

if i wasn't reading and hearing other people views then this discussion wouldn't have proceeded so long .. i have tried to reply every point in all my posts and have not been selective ... admit it where i was wrong ( take for example i was under an impression of that AWare case interview happened soon after so it was an iron clad test... but raaaboo pointed out it was after 1 year .. so i accepted right there it wasn't as 100 % objective as i thought , and that leaves open for criticism, doesn't mean it was a failed test.. , or the part where i wasn't able to find the girls case link .. so i stated it could be a cooked up case as well )

the reason there is no debate possible and why i am avoiding as rightly pointed out by whitestar simply because there is no definitive answer to all of this .. and tell me in which side will you put me ? i am even in worst position than chetan if you consider it a debate

Religion ? - in my past posts where i was bashing religion .. i don't subscribe to chetans or any religious views at all .. and no only theory/theism doesn't suit me .. i can make up a theory too.. its what the practical part ( chi gong and yoga ) of it that is of interest to me.. otherwise why would i waste so much time in this stuff ?

science ? - i am not supporting material science you know.. so i kinda have been bashing the material aspect of it

i have given my reasons why i am being open minded about it .. hence the whole point of discussing it and not debating

now lets turn the guns at you shall we.. i hate doing this but you are on and on constantly attacking .. i ignored you 2 times already

full respects to doomgiver and whitestar they are atleast attacking with valid points to say .. you on the other hand ..

look at you replies

-Did we figure out how to recreate greek fire yet
-man, this zen/yoga seems like BS to me. Why don't they bring world peace,end world hunger,cure all them diseases yet :'( not enough yoga/zen power eh...
- geez too much ancient aliens ..
- Those history channel and 'what if's' shows are really giving some crazy beliefs to people :\
- i thought ancient pyramids were built by slaves it was common knowledge
- jeez [MENTION=300899]rish1[/MENTION] why are you so afraid of hearing other ppls view? It's like you don't wanna change your mind

thing is you don't even bother to read my replies .. how many times did i say this ( atleast 2-3 times ) just because i know this stuff and writing about i don't fully believe in it until i gain personal experience .. and there is more chance of it being wrong than of it being right ?

there is still that skeptical side of me that doesn't let me fully believe in it , even if i want to..

now you know why i want to leave .. i am not writing 1 liners like you .. it literally takes 4 hours to construct that big paragraph reply ( sorry this is the first time i am writing these lengthy replies) .. because all of this stuff i had previously seen .. i have to remember every time what i read about or where i watched that , what was the title of that and then google it up .. so many trial and errors .. just like when raaabo asked for show me evidence for placebo .. i had to literally think and search to give where i saw that in which documentary and many others.. and it is frankly tiring me to the core .. it took me 4 days to frame that last reply i just posted with dozens of link.. the scientific journal link drove me nuts and i repeatedly gave up and couldn't find it all.. same with most of the previous replies

its not like i am searching 24x7 and posting it here.. i have read/watched these cases before and pulling out of my head what i can recall .. read replies of many skeptical claims first , have read 100's of personal anecdotes in the last 1 year.... can only write those stuff that i can recall.. and this time consumption has already caused so much trouble for me..

thats why i had to resort to that replies deleting and changing password stuff.. i think i deserve an infraction for that or maybe ban if i broke rules ..
well it was for personal exploration and not to win an argument or to debate or to change anyone's mind..

second i think i have laid out most of my points already... its not like i won't be reading further replies at all ... in order to further reply i have to go into every case more deeper now and i don't have time to that at all i have my exams and i am eating up my time .. frankly i am trying to get rid of my addictive habit of whole accessing internet (planning to disconnect broadband as well ), already wasted a lot of time ..

hope that clears your point

maybe its all BS or maybe its not ..

apologies from heart i had to resort into attacking mode .. good luck and have a nice time

 

[snap]

If you don't believe in what you are posting then the debate is kinda invalid i guess.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"

Kudos to you for atleast putting in efforts for your replies though, luckily am too lazy for this stuff.

And no need for disconnecting your net there is loads of info whether wrong or correct and how you interpret, spend time pondering over them is upto you.

Well i never intended to attack you personally rather your views, so apologies from my side if u got offended

 

[rish1]

If you don't believe in what you are posting then the debate is kinda invalid i guess.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"

precisely that's why there was never an intention to debate.. nobody can explain it , it doesn't mean we shouldn't look at it and try to understand it.. maybe chat section would have been a great place instead of fight club.. atleast be open minded about what the evidence is pointing at

Kudos to you for atleast putting in efforts for your replies though, luckily am too lazy for this stuff.
And no need for disconnecting your net there is loads of info whether wrong or correct and how you interpret, spend time pondering over them is upto you.

ohh no i am actually too lazy myself .and it never really bothered me before as i used to do it in my free time as it interested me.. its just this when i got into this thread into posting long arguments that messed up my time and schedule... lesson learned will be careful from next time

Well i never intended to attack you personally rather your views, so apologies from my side if u got offended

same here .. please accept my apologies as well for my last post nice talking with you ..

see you later .. off for now take care

 

[Makx]

RSS 're-converts' 200 Agra Muslims, says more in line

AGRA: Members of at least 57 Muslim families were converted to Hinduism at a ceremony called 'Purkhon ki ghar vapsi', a mass conversion jointly organized by Dharma Jagran Samanvay Vibhag, an offshoot of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), and Bajrang Dal in Agra on Monday.

RSS regional head Rajeshwar Singh said more than 200 Muslims were "brought back to Hinduism" in the mass event held in Madhunagar area of the city.

According to organizers, the converts will soon be given new names.

Talking to TOI, Singh claimed that around 5,000 more Muslims and Christians will be "brought back into Hindu fold" in Aligarh on this Christmas. "The grand event will be held at Maheshwari College in Aligarh," he said, daring anyone to stop it.

With saffron flags hoisted on rooftops of makeshift houses in this slum cluster, and matras being recited by priests, members of as many as 57 Muslim families washed feet of Hindu idols to mark their return to the religion. Long vermillion marks were put on their foreheads and they were given Prasad to eat.

Later, RSS and Bajrang Dal activists gave them a 'mantra' to chant the whole day and prepared a list of all the 'converts', to get their voter IDs and Aadhaar cards made, with their new names.

Sharifa, 40, was seen debating the right way of performing an aarti with her daughter-in-law, Afsha, in a small temple that has been erected by RSS men in the slum in Madhunagar. An idol of goddess Kali has also been placed in the temple, as majority of people living in the area hail from West Bengal.

Sufia Begum,76, who is the oldest woman among the converts, told TOI: "I read Quran and offered namaz five times a day. Now at this age, I will read Ganesh aarti. I don't find any major difference in the teachings of the two religions."

"The RSS people assured us that they will provide us better place to live, better food and schooling for my grandsons. I don't mind change of religion, as religion doesn't give us food to eat."

Rajeshwar Singh told TOI that RSS spends Rs 50 lakh every month on conversion of an average 1,000 families. "It spends Rs 8-10 lakh per month on fuel costs alone in west UP," he added.

"We have re-converted 2.73 lakh Muslims and Christians in Braj region that includes Agra, Fatehpur Sikri, Mathura, Firozabad, Etah, Meerut, Mainpuri and Uttarakhand since 2003. The upcoming mass re-conversion event in which some 5,000 Muslims and Christians will be brought back into Hindu fold will be headed by Yogi Adityanath on December 25 in Aligarh," Singh said.

Singh also claimed that RSS has taken possession of as many as 60 churches across the state, where no Christians worship now, "as they have all been re-converted to Hinduism".

"Ek din in girijagharo ki deewarein bhi gir jayengi aur hamara desh sirf hinduon ka hoga (one day these churches will crumble and our country will belong to the Hindus alone)," he added.

Ajju Chauhan, the Bajrang Dal leader who zeroed in on the slum in Madhunagar and organized the mass re-conversion event, was overwhelmed after the puja. More than three dozen RSS and Bajrang Dal members were guarding the pandal to avoid any untoward incident.

Talking to TOI, Aslam Qureishi, prominent Sunni leader of the city, said, "This is just a tactic of the RSS to misguide Muslims."

 

[doomgiver]

One thing that refutes everything that the creator of Coral Castle claims : Magnetic monopoles.

CONSPIRACY.CO

just LOOK at this ^. This is the biggest piece of BS I've found till date. You see that AMAZING 15* angle there? Well guess what? its totally unneccesary. With the projection they are using, Giza and that place are in the Same plane.

Also, 1 more LOL fact : they're using the wrong projection, meaning, their locations are off by around 100-200 kilometers. Maybe these sort of people should enrol in a university before creating such useless and BS pages.

I'll say it out loud : Edward Leedskalnin was a crank fringe theorist, NONE of his papers have ever been published in any respected journal. His writings are so crazy, he's featured here : The Flat Earth Society - Eccentric Lives And Peculiar Notions

I'm willing to bet alarge amount that he cheated in his construction. You cant disprove or prove it.

Just go to that site, and listen to those guys speak... they;re CRAZY, no, WORSE THAN CRAZY. I dont have words to tell you how awful that is. Im tempted to make a troll acount just to screw with them.

- - - Updated - - -

look at you replies

-Did we figure out how to recreate greek fire yet
-man, this zen/yoga seems like BS to me. Why don't they bring world peace,end world hunger,cure all them diseases yet :'( not enough yoga/zen power eh...
- geez too much ancient aliens ..
- Those history channel and 'what if's' shows are really giving some crazy beliefs to people :\
- i thought ancient pyramids were built by slaves it was common knowledge
- jeez @rish1 why are you so afraid of hearing other ppls view? It's like you don't wanna change your mind

1. we have far more potent and powerful weapons than Greek Fire. The chinese have reverse-engineered freaking intel CPU's, if greek fire was effective, it'd have been cracked open by now. Its not important, ie, no research is done.
2. People hail yoga as if its the best thing ever created, as if it'll do all those things mentioned above. screw those people.
3, 4. There, MIGHT have been ancient aliens, doesnt mean that they were responsible for everything.
5. Slave labor is only 2nd place in effectiveness to determined labor. Do you know how many laborers are required to make a 20 storey building? Around 100-150. Now imagine 40-60k such people working all year for 10-20 years.

 

[Anorion]

*files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/behave.png

originally posted here

 

[Faun]

Thats too shallow

 

[Anorion]

I would venture that a world without religion overnight, might end in your apocalyptic nightmare. Like definitive proof finally that God doesn't exist - which isn't going to happen. However a slow and gradually shift to not caring as much is already underway, and that kind of a shift doesn't bring about the atheist-hordes-killing-one-another-for-no-reason that you fear.

omg this seems to be happening Public Sees Religion?s Influence Waning | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

 

[Flash]

It's old, but just wanted to share.
GOD VS. SCIENCE: A Debate Between Natalie Angier and David Sloan Wilson, Moderated by Thomas A. Bass | Edge.org