*** Science Or God? ***

Science or God?

  • Total voters
    517
confused

confused

Evolving Rapidly...
you people are still debating about this? dont you grow tired of this?:?::shock::shock: I mean cant you reach a ceasefire agreement?
 
speedyguy

speedyguy

Cyborg Agent
no there are some new participants everytime or people take a break n join back. like me :)

and also some loose and quit :)

Enjoy~!
 
furious_gamer

furious_gamer

Excessive happiness
confused said:
you people are still debating about this? dont you grow tired of this?:?::shock::shock: I mean cant you reach a ceasefire agreement?
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Nope mate. :D

You came to know a lot of things in this thread and you get an idea on how everything and everyone is, regarding their faith, believe or whatever.
 
m-jeri

m-jeri

Caballero de Real Madrid
rajkumar_pb said:
^^

You still alive in this forum. Nice :D

Man, i've seen you active in TE but why not in TDF?
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Alive and kicking.

Is there anything worthwhile to join here now? :S.

Discussions like this was like THA THING...when it started for a month..maybe 2.. now its just sad. ehehe.. To each its own. :D

vamsi_krishna said:
@m-jeri,

where have you been..!?!?!? (rises hand for hypothetical high five)
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*rises hand for hypothetical high five*
 
avichandana20000

avichandana20000

Cyborg Agent
science finds the laws of nature. NATURE is that which starts when time time starts . We also know that total amount of energy throughout the universe is constant. It only changes its forms.So the robustness of nature is beyond our imagination & calculation. For those who are stubborn to know that beginning are called SCIENTIST. They themselves know that they have just collected some pebbles throught their lives standing in front of the infinite ocean of knowledge. But those who just want to have a peace of mind personified that vastness of nature into GOD. Its just a name on which vastness thrusted upon. Any one can call it by any name they find convenient.
 
Psychosocial

Psychosocial

Violent serenity.
Theists argue that there is no basis for the Big Bang theory... but seriously an invisible guy up in the sky making little planets and putting some creatures in it through the course of seven days ? No thank you, I will stick with the explosion thingy. It's cool, more sensible and hey... who doesn't like explosions ? :D
 
mediator

mediator

Technomancer
rhitwick said:
"US scientists create artificial life in a lab" (shocking??)
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The link doesn't state, that they created "life", but artificial life.


link said:
ROCKVILLE, MD and San Diego, CA (May 20, 2010)— Researchers at the J. Craig Venter Institute (JCVI), a not-for-profit genomic research organization, published results today describing the successful construction of the first self-replicating, synthetic bacterial cell. The team synthesized the 1.08 million base pair chromosome of a modified Mycoplasma mycoides genome. The synthetic cell is called Mycoplasma mycoides JCVI-syn1.0 and is the proof of principle that genomes can be designed in the computer, chemically made in the laboratory and transplanted into a recipient cell to produce a new self-replicating cell controlled only by the synthetic genome.
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JCVI: First Self-Replicating, Synthetic Bacterial Cell Constructed by J. Craig Venter Institute Researchers

BTW, what people do not understand is that there is a big difference between abrahamic god and non-abrahamic god. If we speak of ultimate reality, it is actually the opposite of the "personal" god that we find in abrahamic sense and the god that most people are debating in this thread since time immemorial. Even the terms like religion and theism are of western origin where abrahmic sense was high. Thus we get distortion when we try to view the Indian concepts from a western eye/terminologies.


rhitwick said:
U know how it happens...in ancient days they used to there were only sun and earth. Science told no there are other planets too. And u (theists) came ip with a new theory that God created those planets. Then science told that there are other stars too, u (again theists) told that God created them. Then science came up with other universes too, theists told God created them...do you follow the pattern?
Every time science came up with some discovery, theists tried to took away the credit by repeating only one phrase "God created them"...even they failed to provide some new explanation for it.
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That is again, what we can call, is abrahamic and western conditioning.


The reason there is a confusion is because Indians have a distorted understanding as they view everything through a western approach or abrahamic sense and belittle their own scriptures. A fundamental difference between abrahamic and nonabrahamic is

1) Attachment to a god (personal god), whereas in nonabrahamic there is no such attachment. Both Hinduism and Buddhism call for detachment. Both Buddha and Krishna teach detachment from Vedas. It doesn't mean to reject Vedas but simply to understand the knowledge from a detached or objective state of mind.
2) A particular name, whereas the same ultimate reality is called by different names due to its different roles of manifestations.
3) Lack of questioning in abrahmic faiths, whereas questioning and knowledge is the basic essence of the non-abrahamics.
4) The abrahamic god is isolated from nature and has his own set of miracles to perform, whereas everything is a part of ultimate reality with its various manifestations.



The rigvedic hymn of creation presents the most scientific questions that present scientists are dealing with.
rigveda said:
Hymns of Creation (Nasadiya Sukta). Rig Veda 10/129/ 1 – 7

1. At first was neither Being nor Nonbeing.
There was not air nor yet sky beyond.
What was its wrapping? Where? In whose protection?
Was Water there, unfathomable and deep?

2. There was no death then, nor yet deathlessness;
Of night or day there was not any sign.
The One breathed without breath, by its own impulse.
Other than that was nothing else at all.

3. Darkness was there, all wrapped around by darkness,
And all was Water indiscriminate.
Then that which was hidden by the Void, that One, emerging,
Stirring, through power of Ardor, came to be.

4. In the beginning Love arose,
which was the primal germ cell of the mind.
The Seers, searching in their hearts with wisdom,
Discovered the connection of Being in Nonbeing.

5. A crosswise line cut Being from Nonbeing.
What was described above it, what below?
Bearers of seed there were and mighty forces,
Thrust from below and forward move above.

6. Who really knows? Who can presume to tell it?
Whence was it born? Whence issued this creation?
Even the Gods came after its emergence.
Then who can tell from whence it came to be?

7. That out of which creation has arisen,
Whether it held it firm or it did not,
He who surveys it in the highest heaven,
He surely knows or maybe He does not!
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One should understand that Veda do not deal with some gods as in abrahamic sense, but different aspects of ultimate reality and nature which are personfied as "deva" which when we translate to English we call as God. But, it distorts when we relate that "deva" from a western understanding of "God". Here's a good article though :

The Vedic God: An Evolutionary Journey | The Chakra News

Similarly, in ancient days, those who questioned the churches were burnt alive, Galileo was threatened, and hands and limbs chopped off. Whereas, Buddha was adored for questioning the corrupted Bhramins who deviated from their dharmic path. The term Religion comes from the west which means a set of blind beliefs followed without any questioning. Whereas, dharma means duty, righteousness, spirituality and scientific questioning which is the dharma of a student. How can religion and dharma be the same? Astik means one who accepts the Vedic conceptualizations. Vedas promote questioning and knowledge. Thus how can theism and astik be the same?


*Theism i.e polytheism, monotheism, atheism, theism are the terms of the west and not Indian. One may research on his own if he doesn't understand what has been stated. But to do so he/she needs to decondition his/her mind from western conceptualization and terminologies to understand the Indian concepts. Theist stated that earth is flat and atheist laughed at theists and further added that "everybody" in past thought earth was flat? Does that means Indians also thought earth was flat?

Little do we know that renowned scientists and philosophers like Tesla, Schroedinger etc have their motivations from Vedas and the Upanishads. Ken Wilber used the Upanishads to derive the 10 levels of consciousness.

Erwin Schroedinger (1887--1961) Austrian theoretical physicist, was a professor at several universities in Europe. He was awarded the Nobel prize Quantum Mechanics, in 1933. During the Hitler era he was dismissed from his position for his opposition to the Nazi ideas and he fled to England. He was the author of Meine Weltansicht

Schrodinger wrote in his book Meine Weltansicht

“This life of yours which you are living is not merely apiece of this entire existence, but in a certain sense the whole; only this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance. This, as we know, is what the Brahmins express in that sacred, mystic formula which is yet really so simple and so clear; tat tvam asi, this is you. Or, again, in such words as “I am in the east and the west, I am above and below, I am this entire world.”

Schrodinger’s influential What is life? the physical aspect of the living cell & Mind and matter (1944) also used Vedic ideas. The book became instantly famous although it was criticized by some of its emphasis on Indian ideas. Francis Clark, the co-discoverer of the DNA code, credited this book for key insights that led him to his revolutionary discovery.

According to his biographer Walter Moore, there is a clear continuity between Schrodinger’s understanding of Vedanta and his research:

“The unity and continuity of Vedanta are reflected in the unity and continuity of wave mechanics. In 1925, the world view of physics was a model of a great machine composed of separable interacting material particles. During the next few years, Schrodinger and Heisenberg and their followers created a universe based on super imposed inseparable waves of probability amplitudes. This new view would be entirely consistent with the Vedantic concept of All in One."
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More from other scientists


Indians are strongly recommended to read their scriptures instead of becoming Macaulayites who wanted to break India by creating Indians english in taste. In his speech minutes, he stated "We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect.". He further stated, "we are free to employ our funds as we choose; that we ought to employ them in teaching what is best worth knowing; that English is better worth knowing than Sanscrit or Arabic".

Science Vs God, just passing by, now I see it from a different angle. Is it Modern material science Vs Western/abrahamic God? Or is it Vedic science Vs Ultimate reaity? If its former, then proceed on! If its latter, then research yourself, as there is no "Vs" in the latter. [:)] One would understand why secularism started in the west, what religion is, what theism is.

A few nice reads :
Dharma and Religion - वेद Veda
Michel Danino - Effects of Colonization on Indian Thought
 
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