Legality of Mac OS X TOS

[aryayush]

Those who have used Mac/Linux/Windows (I mean all 3), do they really feel Mac is the best compromise (not in rate), with hardware, superior hardware (as in LED monitors, keyboard lights and stuffs), an OS X and everything taken into consideration?? Are they vouching on it without any prejudice or bias?

The only people who qualify are the Mac users, of course, because it's pretty much a fact that "once you go Mac, you never go back". All Mac users here have, without exception, used Windows and Linux as well and all of them universally agree that Mac is the best platform to be on.

But, of course, that makes us biased, right? You can only be considered unbiased if you don't vouch for the Mac because, clearly, if you do so, you've been brainwashed by Steve Jobs' mystic forces.

So, to answer your question–I, as one of the very few people here who've actually used various iterations of Windows, several Linux distros (though not as extensively as Windows or Mac OS X) and Mac OS X Tiger and Leopard, can say with experience backing me up that Mac OS X is unparalleled right now, the best OS in the market by far.

 

[praka123]

"the best os" is a subjective term
I can say that Debian GNU/Linux is the best!
regarding eyecandy-a proper themed GNU/Linux distro(opensuse for eg) can own OS X .added to that it uses Linux kernel(better).
Usability -I have to admit OS X is extremely easy for a amateur though
I have seen lot of os x users in ubuntuforums who are exclusively booting into Ubuntu Linux in their mac platform

 

[aryayush]

Therefore, Apple is indeed practicing restrictive trade. Take my case for example, I want to install Mac OS X on my PC, and would rather not buy a Mac in order to be able to use aforementioned OS. Therefore, I am being denied my choice of OS.

I would be the last person to claim to know anything about Indian laws but don't you think that quote applies when those restrictions are harmful for customers and there is a general feeling of discontentment and dissatisfaction among them?

Apple's restricting the OS to their own hardware actually makes both their hardware and software much better to use and the company enjoys the highest level of customer satisfaction, unparalleled by any company in any industry in the world. How does it make their policy bad?

Simply put, Apple does not view their operating system and computers as two parts of a whole. They view their combination as a single product and treat them as such. To illustrate this, let me point out that Apple does not sell a single device without its own software pre-installed, unlike almost every other company in the industry.

Also, riddle me this: Before pointing fingers at Apple, tell me why is no one blaming Sony Ericsson for tying their phones' OS to the phones it runs on? Why can't you buy it and install it on your Nokia? Why can't you install the Wii's software on your PS3 or Xbox? Or the software in your TV on your washing machine?

I don't see anyone complaining about any of all those other fields in the technology industry where hardware and software have always been fundamentally integrated, just like Macs are today? Just because Microsoft chose to go a different route, which (as we all know) comes with its own share of problems (that are innumerable), how does it makes Apple's not following them a "restrictive trade policy"? Right from the very first Mac, the Mac OS has always been a part and parcel of the whole computer. Why should Apple have to change just because Microsoft did?

I think it's actually quite commendable that even in the fact of strong opposition from the entire market (which includes Microsoft, the giant, and all the hardware, accessory and software makers), Apple managed to hold its own. The fact that you're seeing a very successful Apple today even after thirty years of fighting against aggressive pricing and myriad different competitors on various levels is a feat worth honouring.

They're successful in every single aspect of their business–they are the market leaders in the MP3 player business, have a cult following in the Mac business and a budding team of developers, the iPhone is a huge success and is regarded as the "JesusPhone", they're successful in retail, both online and through their brick and mortar stores, they don't participate in any mega-events in the industry and yet generate the most buzz, are a very highly regarded brand, enjoy insane levels of customer loyalty, can boast of the best customer service in the industry... where the heck is this company lacking! Apple is the most well rounded and exciting company in the industry right now. Apple is the company Sun and Adobe go to so that they can be a part of the iPhone, not the other way round.

Sorry to go on a bit of a tangent there but once I start typing away, new thoughts keep springing out of nowhere.


Tell me one thing, among all the electronic goods in your house–your television, fridge, air conditioner, washing machine, computer, etc.–which one gives you the most hassles. In the last one year, which one has required you to troubleshoot it the most? I can proudly say that it was my air conditioner, which broke twice within the last one year. My computer didn't. I didn't need to troubleshoot my computer even twice within the whole of last year, as far as I can remember.

Sure, there are people who aren't as lucky as me even after purchasing a Mac. Like anything else, problems can crop up with Macs too. But the chances are drastically less than other PCs. Why? Because Apple strives to minimise the difference between how much you have to fix your television and how much you have to fix your computer. And they can do that only, and only, because they make the whole widget.

End of discussion. Period.

(And please read the highlighted paragraph twice before posting a reply. I'm sure that if one tries hard enough, the point I'm trying to make is bound to hit home, even if you are unfortunate enough to be gx_saurav or iMav.)

 

[FilledVoid]

Legal Point of View as what I have I understood:

A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time.

Did anyone here even notice the word in bold here? You cannot install Mac OS on a Non Apple branded computer as stated specifically in the License. I don't understand why you would want to . But thats beyond the topic in discussion so why even go there? If you downloaded the software off a torrent or from ICanRunAppleonMyPC.com guess what you already broke the license and its known as "Infringement of Copyright". Not to mention that the code wasn't supposed ot be on the net on the first place because it wasn't supposed to be on the Internet for redistribution. From this you have already breached the Eula, if you bought it from your Local Pirate then you have contributed to Piracy which is again an offense, further more you will face "Vicarious Liability" because you benefit from installing it on your computer, if you distributed it to someone else then you face "Contributory Infringement".

Yes I know that you are going to say that you wiped it off your Mac so why can't I place it on my PC. First of all those bold words up there mainly say why. Want more? Read on.

C. Except as and only to the extent permitted in this License, by applicable licensing terms governing use of the Open-Sourced Components, or by applicable law, you may not copy, decompile,reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, or create derivative works of the Apple Software or any part thereof.

If you are required to install any patch to the software then you have caused alteration to the Code for Apple's software which again leads you to breach of Information Act Section 43 (c). By the way did someone say that the amount of compensation the person had to pay would not exceed the cost of a Mac? Guess again, according to this rule it specifically says "....he shall be liable to pay damages by the way of compensation not exceeding one crore rupees to the person so affected.

Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute or sublicense the Apple Software.
I've already explained the points to this above. if further clarification is needed I'll be happy to explain it again.

Contrary to what you think, there is no crime in installing OS X on a PC if you strip it from a Mac you purchased. It is a breach of contract, a civil wrong, a wrong against a single entity as opposed to a crime which a wrong against the state.

Are you saying that crimes are only deeds committed against the State cause I'm confused here? If I recall correctly anything that breaks the law is a crime :S . Please clarify this so I could possibly understand it better. If you are referring to imprisonment I'm sorry to tell you that under IT Act Section 66 (Hacking a computer system - modification of a computer resource , a bit far fetched but definitely legally debatable) states this "Whoever commits hacking shall be punished with imprisonment up to three years, or with fine which may extend up to two lakh rupees, or with both. ".

Since you wiped the copy from first place, and you paid for one copy only, you are in the realm of law even if you install it on non Apple hardware.

False. As pointed to above.

There is difference between breach of EULA and piracy. Installing OSX on a PC after you have wiped it off from a Mac you purchased is a breach of EULA not Piracy.

Yes it is. As long as you didn't buy the CD off your local Pirate or download it off Torrents then you should be in the clear for Piracy. But the rest of the offenses should be more than enough to give you legal hell in India.

Please remember that in India we are governed by Indian Contract Act and Indian Copyrights Act. Breach of contract is NOT a Crime in India.

I don't understand this as I said above. Are you saying that Breach of Contract is not punishable according to Indian Law?

The maximum Jobs can do is ask you for compensation. He can not get you tried for a crime. The term illegal means something which is contrary to the law. Breach of contract is not a crime. It is civil wrong. Since the law does allow you to use your copy the way you want, Apple can not regulate where you use your copy of OSX, provided that you are ready to pay the damages (Not fine - fine is paid to state not to the offended party. Damages are paid to the offended party in a civil case.) of loss. These damages can in no case be more than the price you paid for the said Mac.

Again my above points otherwise and trust me when I say he can sue you for more than the cost of a puny Mac. The term Illegal is used to denote an act constituted against any law upheld in whatever place you reside and not to mention that you are governed by MANY more laws than the "Indian Contract Act and Indian Copyrights Act".

Please do not consider this the official word. I am still discussing the matter with my teachers at Campus Law center, University of Delhi. I would post the final part as soon as we reach to a definite legal conclusion

Doing an ASCL Cyber law Course? If so I was in the GLC-10 batch !

Since there is no such precedent or legislation which says that Apple limiting people to its hardware is allowed and installation of OSX on non Apple hardware is a breach of copyright. (Please read the Sony music CD example I gave in the first post) installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is not a crime. Hence the usage of term " installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is illegal" is incorrect.

And if you have noticed they haven't issued statement saying that you may only play this Audio CD on "UBAH CD Player 101" rather you may not make copies of it or redistribute it. This scenario would not uphold in Apple's case cause they specifically say that you shall use it on an Apple branded Computer.

you do purchase OSX. If you are switching from Tiger to Leopard that is.

As far as I recall, you never purchase the Operating System . You only have purchased the media. Yes I know you are charged for the software but as per Apple.

The software (including Boot ROM code), documentation and any fonts accompanying this License whether on disk, in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (collectively the “Apple Software”) are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. (“Apple”) for use only under the terms of this License, and Apple reserves all rights not expressly granted to you.

Considering that OSX is not a RISC platform anymore and it is possible to (by whatever means ) install it on a PC, this locking thing can, in theory, be termed as a restrictive trade practice.Naturally people buy from Apple not coz they want its hardware but coz they want OS X. So if someone wants OS X, he has no option but to purchase Apple hardware, it can technically be termed as a restrictive trade practice.

I beg to differ. Just cause Apples Mac OSX runs on their specific hardware doesn't man that it is following a restrictive trade practice. Maybe I am not understanding the scenario good enough. Show me what in the "The Monopolies And Restrictive Trade Practices Act, 1969" shows Apple Following restrictive trade practices in India.

Just putting in my 2 cents worth. Post is not made to make anyone feel bad . Sorry for the long post. By the way as far as Laws in India goes. Its not really the laws that are flawed. Its the officials who are supposed to implement it.

Sorry for not mentioning Sources.
*www.apple.com/legal/sla/ <-- Got the Mac OS License Agreement from here I used the one for Tiger 10.4 (Is that the correct one ? cause there is quite a few in there.)
ASCL Cyber Law Books - I have 4 volumes at home from a Diploma I did in Cyber Law.
Some of the links mentioned above in previous posts.

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

^^you are abusing your keyboard.

 

[ring_wraith]

Him and Aayush.

And @Aayush, Not finger pointing, I for one completely agree to what you have said. Just correcting you when you said that Apple is not resorting to Restrictive trade. Irrespective of the effect and who's doing it or not, fact is Apple's doing it too.

and,

I'm sure that if one tries hard enough, the point I'm trying to make is bound to hit home, even if you are unfortunate enough to be gx_saurav or iMav

You really should quit that you know

 

[FilledVoid]

^^you are abusing your keyboard.

Lol yeah I tend to do that once in a while .

 

[kumarmohit]

@ Filled Void:
Nope not Cyber Law - General LLb.

Your approach is very correct.

Considering that I was basing my logic on the Sony CD part and the the fact that which you have successfully busted. I was taking that breach of EULA is a breach of contract and not that of copyright. I guess we can as of now safely decide it is a crime. Unless it is decided as a restrictive trade practice
All in all I consider myself thoroughly out statuted! And bow out of the discussion. Especially with Section 66, IT Act which makes modification a crime and we can not do it without patching.

I would like to differ on the MRTP part yet! Considering that Apple's forcing you to buy its hardware when in moist cases people only want to buy its software, and Steve himself says that they

(1) believe themselves as a software company.
(2) accept that a mac is nothing but OS X in a pretty box.

And the fact that they the steps to restrict OS X from running on non apple hardware, when most people want only the software but are forced to buy hardware because the company despite being a software company makes you buy its hardware. It can be called uncompetitive bundling of products and monopolization to a certain extent.

PS: Grudgy thanks for your effort and thanks everyone else for contribution. I would pursue the matter from a restrictive trade practice point but as of now, with the conditions we have in the law it can be safely considered a crime.

@ everyone else: Sorry Guyz, no OS X for you unless you buy it with a Apple computer. However hope is not dead yet. There is till the restrictive trade practice part.

 

[FilledVoid]

@ Filled Void:
Nope not Cyber Law - General LLb.

Ah ok . Ive not seen many Future advocates looking into tech Forums . If you would like to further go into IT LAW I would recommend the ASCL diploma although Im not sure if thats already included in your syllabus.

. I guess we can as of now safely decide it is a crime. Unless it is decided as a restrictive trade practice
All in all I consider myself thoroughly out statuted! And bow out of the discussion. Especially with Section 66, IT Act which makes modification a crime and we can not do it without patching.

Actually I never looked deeply into the MRTP Act . So I'll also check into it. I doubt it would come under it because it does not in any way affect how the market performs or give any product an unfair advantage over the other. Not to mention that compared to the EU I believe that India is much more lenient. An example of this would be the numerous EU law Suits filed for. Another interesting one is the Wood Industry in USA and Canada if I recall correctly. Anyway it would definitely be more interesting to hear more about this . Personally I found somethings rather interesting in the EULA of Mac when looking into it.

Certain components of the Apple Software, and third party open source programs included with the Apple Software, have been or may be made available by Apple on its Open Source web site (*www.opensource.apple.com/) (collectively the "Open-Sourced Components"). You may modify or replace only these Open-Sourced Components; provided that: (i) the resultant modified Apple Software is used, in place of the unmodified Apple Software, on a single Apple-labeled computer; and (ii) you otherwise comply with the terms of this License and any applicable licensing terms governing use of the Open-Sourced Components. Apple is not obligated to provide any maintenance, technical or other support for the resultant modified Apple Software.

Could an Apple User please confirm what this means? Are they saying that the Apple Open Source Components may be modified as long as you only use it on your own computer ? Cause I really don't understand the logic behind making it Open Source at all :O.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

@ayyush, wrt success of apple products:

In a previous post, you said buying an apple product will do no wrong
but I beg to differ
its an economical ruin of your self
personally speaking, I advice a mac only if you get it cheaper or if you are incapable of building your own machine.

...and I am n.o.t. an anti-mac fanboy. I am just economical by nature.

 

[Faun]

I have seen lot of os x users in ubuntuforums who are exclusively booting into Ubuntu Linux in their mac platform

thats a fact, even i hav seen people adoring Ubuntu more than anything.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

thats a fact, even i hav seen people adoring Ubuntu more than anything.

and that makes me sick.
in my opinion, no person can be called a respectable person if he does not show off his own indivuduality. And that goes to OSes too. I am a Mac User if I buy a macmini. I am an alienware dude if I buy an alienware rig. I am a ubuntu boy if I buy a Dell Ubuntu Computer for my use.

But I am ME and ME alone if I build my own computer and get my own customised OS.

I love myself because I am an indivudual with my own indivuduality.

 

[legolas]

^ ^ Well in that case, you should try building your own OS. That would be the height of individuality.
What makes me sick is you are just setting standards to where you stand, just like what others have claim, except that you feel you are not obliged to any of these restrictions.
Your concept of individuality again is not true. The purpose of a computer does not encompass a witty-choosing (claimed as individuality) as the lion's share.
and I love myself coz.... um... er.... I sort of have to (just kidding)

 

[MetalheadGautham]

^ ^ Well in that case, you should try building your own OS. That would be the height of individuality.
What makes me sick is you are just setting standards to where you stand, just like what others have claim, except that you feel you are not obliged to any of these restrictions.
Your concept of individuality again is not true. The purpose of a computer does not encompass a witty-choosing (claimed as individuality) as the lion's share.
and I love myself coz.... um... er.... I sort of have to (just kidding)

ofcource I have my own OS, ubuntu eXtreme edition.
I just said using something "as it is" reduces indivuality.

and I only said this because ubuntu is starting to turn into a "I love ununtu" club. Linux is supposed to be about DIY and hence indivuduality automatically comes here, but ubuntu, SuSE, etc are messing that up and linux is loosing its reputation.

 

[FilledVoid]

and that makes me sick.
in my opinion, no person can be called a respectable person if he does not show off his own indivuduality.

Why should you feel bad about that? If the person bought his Mac hes free to experiment in any way he/she wants as long as he doesn't break the "SLA" (Apple doesn't call it EULA for some odd reason). So the person might install Windows , Mac or and Linux on it (I don't know if Mac can dual or tri boot so don't quote me on that). As a matter fact I recall one of the respected posters (Gnurag I think) although I do miss his educational posts nowadays running Ubuntu on his Powerbook (is that what it is called?).

Respecting a persons individuality is something this forum lacks all together. If a person says something about Windows it suddenly becomes a "HAHAHAHA you nooborz please delete yourself thread" or if a person runs Linux then its "HAHAHAHA you bunch of freaky nerds" etc. How about everyone respecting a persons freedom of choice and let them be satisfied with what it is they use.

By the way just to clarify something which is being played over and over like a scratched record right now. It is NOT illegal to install Mac OSX on a PC because it would not give you the same performance that you have on its respective Mac Hardware but its illegal because it breaks the SLA its as simple as that. The rest of how Apple works and how it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside is moot. End of Story.

 

[legolas]

ofcource I have my own OS, ubuntu eXtreme edition.
I just said using something "as it is" reduces indivuality.

he he, I meant from the scratch. Yes, you are right Linux's reputation under the new name Ubuntu is questionable.
Mac has already turned into this giant and best OS+hardware + other softwares supposedly, that the debates are endless.
Ubuntu is starting to. Its not too long before we see Ubuntu Vs other linux or Fedora or something.
It is opinionistic, but its no different from modifying a current OS to suit your needs which you have done. We all do, but our needs to customize may be relatively less and/or all/most we expect comes with 1 particular OS. The ultimate aim is not to quibble over who takes more time and brain to set the OS into a working environment, but set it at the most workable environment and start using constructively for that is the whole purpose (at least to me, all the projects I have done so far). The other customizations are merely for satisfactory purposes. (not reg. hardware, I was only telling reg. softwares. Hardwares are extremely choosy and the more knowledgeable the more time and money you invest to set up to both satisfy and arguably suit the best of your needs)

But I understand when you say, do what you want, but stop claiming you are immediately a so-and-so and discredit the only lovely open community existing. True!!

 

[narangz]

Respecting a persons individuality is something this forum lacks all together. If a person says something about Windows it suddenly becomes a "HAHAHAHA you nooborz please delete yourself thread" or if a person runs Linux then its "HAHAHAHA you bunch of freaky nerds" etc. How about everyone respecting a persons freedom of choice and let them be satisfied with what it is they use

+1. I can't agree more

 

[ring_wraith]

and that makes me sick.
in my opinion, no person can be called a respectable person if he does not show off his own indivuduality. And that goes to OSes too. I am a Mac User if I buy a macmini. I am an alienware dude if I buy an alienware rig. I am a ubuntu boy if I buy a Dell Ubuntu Computer for my use.

But I am ME and ME alone if I build my own computer and get my own customised OS.

I love myself because I am an indivudual with my own indivuduality.

Care to elaborate on what is your customized OS? New Wallpaper?

What you are saying is just a ridiculous and pointless effort to separate yourself from the crowd. There is nothing un-cool about using an OS that everyone is using if it is more effective than the one you are using. It's almost like saying,

"Oh everyone is using Keyboards for text entry! What un-cool idiots! I'm going to use the on-screen keyboard, or maybe the mouse! No wait! I absolutely have to spend an unnecessary amount of time in order to create my own input method. which is probably never going to be as effective as a keyboard! I mean, come on, I want to be unique and express my individuality!!!"

I really could not help that outburst. Ubuntu aims to popularize what is probably the most underused OS out there, and you complain, saying its popularizing Linux. Damn.

What would I choose between individuality and effectiveness/ease of use/support?

[sarcasm] Uhhhhh.... Wait, I can figure it out, Yeah, it's coming, wait I almost got it!!! [/sarcasm]

The latter!! Duh!

 

[kumarmohit]

As a matter fact I recall one of the respected posters (Gnurag I think) although I do miss his educational posts

Yep It would be two years next month that the April crisis took place. Some of the best members of the forum left at that time. Even I miss those days

Respecting a persons individuality is something this forum lacks all together. If a person says something about Windows it suddenly becomes a "HAHAHAHA you nooborz please delete yourself thread" or if a person runs Linux then its "HAHAHAHA you bunch of freaky nerds" etc. How about everyone respecting a persons freedom of choice and let them be satisfied with what it is they use.

Fanboyism is on the rise in the forum, and this is from all the three camps, Windows, Linux and Apple as well.

 

[ring_wraith]

^^ that's true, and it hurts.