Legality of Mac OS X TOS

[aryayush]

Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Glad to know you're having fun with it.

the links I sent you clearly stated that there was hardly anything extra in the custom DVDs.

And I too agree that the offitial DVD can't usually be used to install on a PC

Exactly. That's all I'm saying. I hate to have to discuss so much only to be proven right in the end. Why can't people just agree with me when I'm right!

never saw this post of yours before...

so here is my reply:

how ? You think that a MacMini G2 bought for 2k can run Mac OS X better than an 8 core PC ?
Your point might be valid if al you want are offitial commercial support from apple.

But cases like mine are different.

I use Gautham OS II as my primary OS(don't ask me how I make it), windows vista for gaming and mac for timepass and iLife in this scenario. How can Leopard, resting in a custom virtual machine, be faster when on a MacMini G2 ?

1. I was, of course, talking about a current generation Mac Mini, the Core 2 Duo variety. And they never made G2 Minis anyway.

2. "Better" for me means running without any hassles and letting me do what I want it to do without having to keep troubleshooting it to keep it in running condition. By virtue of that, the Mini is better than any PC in the world.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

2. "Better" for me means running without any hassles and letting me do what I want it to do without having to keep troubleshooting it to keep it in running condition. By virtue of that, the Mini is better than any PC in the world.

thanks for your defination.
because for me, "Better" means total control and knowledge of what exactly is going on, along with raw but controlled power.
When did I ever say I am buying a PC ?
I might do an Apple thing and call my Custom Built Computer "Something Else"
And you might be intrested to know that when you have gone through every advantage/disadvantage and performance issue of the parts you buy, and have chosen the parts wisely, your Custom Built Computer will perform better than any other computer in the world, Alienware, Macintoshes, Dells, HP Pavalions and <insert name here> included.
As far as I am concerned, the macintosh mini is just yet another branded PC
There is hardly any difference between macs and other computers now that the "G" era is gone.

 

[drgrudge]

Ok, cleaned the Apple Thread moved the posts here. Edited the first post and going to post here again:

Members need not get carried away by what was been debated. Just a reminder on our forum policies. So even if it's 'legal' according to Indian laws, we won't permit discussing/supporting the same. Hell, we don't even allow discussion on torrent sites/trackers and related news.

Installing OS X in any other thing than a Mac or an iPhone is illegal. No discussions will be permitted. People who manage to install will not be supported (atleast via threads/posts in this forum).

 

[MetalheadGautham]

@ashwin: thankyou for going through the trouble to post these posts here in this thread.

ontopic:

you guys might want to browse through this link if you want some solid statements

 

[gxsaurav]

Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Installing OS X in any other thing than a Mac or an iPhone is illegal. No discussions will be permitted. People who manage to install (like iMav) will not be supported (atleast via threads/posts in this forum).

Yo, we don't install it on the PC, we go to the nearest Apple store to test & use it.

 

[Gigacore]

time to install mac on my PC

 

[ring_wraith]

Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I hate to have to discuss so much only to be proven right in the end. Why can't people just agree with me when I'm right!

*Waves good-bye to all traces of Aayush's humility"

But seriously, those of you who know me will agree with me when I say that I am not one to advocate Apple or MS or anyone without a solid, valid reason. Therefore in this case, I must say that Aayush is indeed right.

There is one very simple reason for that. There is not one chance in a million that anyone on the face of this planet could possibly emulate the experience that Mr. Jobs ensures all his paying customers have.

Allow me to elaborate.

To the new Mac user, the most difficult part of the initial setup of their iMacs is to decide where they have to put it. Not kidding here. Once they do decide, all they have to do is plug it in, and off they go. Compare this to the average PC user, who has to wrestle with [probably] OS installs, incompatability issues, driver installation, update installation and whatchamacallit.

See the difference? In the former, the whole experience is completely seamless with no trace of a headache whatsoever while in the latter it is exactly the opposite. This is why it is impossible to recreate the Apple experience. From what I've gathered about the good people at Apple, their motto is that computing does not have to be a pain in the behind, and they do everything they can to stick to it.

Let's take this a step further, shall we? The above comparison is between a PC and a Mac, which is completely legal and expected. What about the PC user who has [foolishly] tried to recreate the Apple experience on his PC? He has to go through the sheerly irritating process of downloading a patched 4GB+ ISO on his [pathetic] 256kbps line, then attempting to install it only to be met by resounding failure. Then he takes his problem to an unofficial community, only to realize that there is no known solution to his problem. Let's assume that despite all these hurdles, he manages to get to that prized OS X desktop, only to realize that his sound, ethernet and USB drivers are missing. Finally, light dawns on him and he is forced to settle for the mediocrity that is Windows.

The above is my story. I learnt it the hard, hard, hard way. Heed my words, and you may not have to. The fact is, just by forcing yourself to go through what I went through [in order to obtain what is a partially functional Mac where the software and hardware are the two ends of a dipole] you are losing out on what is a very major part of the Apple experience.

 

[infra_red_dude]

From what I can understand we are debating about the correctness of the terms: illegal and piracy associated with installing Mac OS X on PC and NOT discussing about the situation or reasons why one would do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I am correct then the discussions involving Metalgautam, aayush and ring_wraith are pointless and not related to this thread in anyway.

 

[kumarmohit]

First of all thanks grudgy for moving the discussion here.

Next thing is that the matter is getting a bit more complicated, since the Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices Act is also now in the picture as well.

Considering that OSX is not a RISC platform anymore and it is possible to (by whatever means ) install it on a PC, this locking thing can, in theory, be termed as a restrictive trade practice.Naturally people buy from Apple not coz they want its hardware but coz they want OS X. So if someone wants OS X, he has no option but to purchase Apple hardware, it can technically be termed as a restrictive trade practice.

(BTW how come grudgy this thread did not show in my subscriptions until I made this particular post, bug?)

One more thing, can you add the words "According to Indian Law" to the title considering that there are members of international community on the forum and we are actually discussing the matter with Indian law as a mainstay.

 

[ring_wraith]

From what I can understand we are debating about the correctness of the terms: illegal and piracy associated with installing Mac OS X on PC and NOT discussing about the situation or reasons why one would do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I am correct then the discussions involving Metalgautam, aayush and ring_wraith are pointless and not related to this thread in anyway.

I realize that, but I'm sure that this is not the first thread where the discussion has side-tracked. At least it still revolves around one central idea. Considering this, I considered it apt to continue posting on what I could voice my opinion on.

As a matter of fact, I would strongly recommend you and everyone else who does so to refrain from posting without contributing to the discussion at hand. We all are perfectly capable of realizing what and what not to post sans external nudging.

First of all thanks grudgy for moving the discussion here.

Next thing is that the matter is getting a bit more complicated, since the Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices Act is also now in the picture as well.

Considering that OSX is not a RISC platform anymore and it is possible to (by whatever means ) install it on a PC, this locking thing can, in theory, be termed as a restrictive trade practice.Naturally people buy from Apple not coz they want its hardware but coz they want OS X. So if someone wants OS X, he has no option but to purchase Apple hardware, it can technically be termed as a restrictive trade practice.

Could you simplify that? We're not all law students.

 

[kumarmohit]

^^ I will try to make it simple but it would take a number of posts. Please bear with me.

First you have to answer me (I assume that you have a Mac- iMac, MD, MBP MBA. Macmini or mac pro watever) Why did you buy it? Was it because of the hardware only or was the main reason of your purchasing that you wanted OS X?

 

[MetalheadGautham]

From what I can understand we are debating about the correctness of the terms: illegal and piracy associated with installing Mac OS X on PC and NOT discussing about the situation or reasons why one would do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I am correct then the discussions involving Metalgautam, aayush and ring_wraith are pointless and not related to this thread in anyway.

its my fault.
we were actually discussing just "legal issues" relating to Mac OS X, but I asked grudge to move all these posts to a thread titled "The Legality of Mac OS X TOS". Better ask someone to fix my mistake

Next thing is that the matter is getting a bit more complicated, since the Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices Act is also now in the picture as well.

Considering that OSX is not a RISC platform anymore and it is possible to (by whatever means ) install it on a PC, this locking thing can, in theory, be termed as a restrictive trade practice.Naturally people buy from Apple not coz they want its hardware but coz they want OS X. So if someone wants OS X, he has no option but to purchase Apple hardware, it can technically be termed as a restrictive trade practice.

for a court's point of view, we need to first catch hold of a case very similar to this one and see how it went.

 

[drgrudge]

First you have to answer me (I assume that you have a Mac- iMac, MD, MBP MBA. Macmini or mac pro watever) Why did you buy it? Was it because of the hardware only or was the main reason of your purchasing that you wanted OS X?

Interesting question. Let me answer.

I bought a Mac for the following reasons : Design (if I hadn't bought a Mac, I would've owned a Sony Vaio), superior hardware and OS X in that order. Now that I've used a Mac for 6 months, I think I would want to own a {future} Mac for : Apps/OS X, Design and Superior hardware in that order.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

for the benifit of those having trouble with this monopolistic and restrictive trade practices act, I am posting the following linkd for your benifit:

1. Whole Act(pdf)

2. The act explained

3. exemptions and more expemptions

4. defination of unfair trade practice

5. presumption by the court as being "to the public intrest"

 

[ring_wraith]

^^ I will try to make it simple but it would take a number of posts. Please bear with me.

First you have to answer me (I assume that you have a Mac- iMac, MD, MBP MBA. Macmini or mac pro watever) Why did you buy it? Was it because of the hardware only or was the main reason of your purchasing that you wanted OS X?

If I ever bought a Mac, it would be mainly for the OS, then for the superior design. The Hardware itself is quite ordinary.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

If I ever bought a Mac, it would be mainly for the OS, then for the superior design. The Hardware itself is quite ordinary.

+1

in my case, it would be even more extreme. If I ever bought a mac, it would be for their few softwares that I find good. Their hardware and OS can never match the level of power and flexibility a personalised custom built computer(not PC) and a custom distro.

The problem, as often noted, is that the companies manufacturing softwares often neglect certain platforms in favour of others.

But back to topic, yes, a mac indeed looks like a white elephant to me.
Buying it just for its colour by paying a premium is out of question.
The only possible use for a mac is to "legally" run iLife and similar Mac exclusive apps that are face savers to the apple lineup.

 

[drgrudge]

The Hardware itself is quite ordinary.

Dude! I've had a Dell Inspiron 6400 for over 8 months and seen all the 'other' branded lappies (from Toshiba, HP, LG, Sony, etc..).

My MBP:

- does not creak when I close the lid
- the best screen ever. My LED powered screen pwns our 36" LCD TV also.
- has the best trackpad. I know trackpad gets 'smooth' and the buttons goes 'loose'. My MBP's trackpad is new as ever.
- motion and light sensors. Trust & believe me. I now can't live without them.
- good quality keys. My Dell keyboard key used to 'fade'. Frequently used keys smudge off in 3-4 months.
- My MBP in built speaker is best in class. It's better than the Altec Lancing powered HP Pavillion and 'DTS - Dolby Surround speakers' of Toshiba.
- I can go on.... but in the end, all I want to say is...

Mac does has a superior hardware. Don't confuse with config and 'superior' hardware.


And.. once a Mac user, always a Mac user. All my future PCs will be a Mac only.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

^^as I said, thats the case for MacBooks. They offer a polishe hardware, but due to the lack of ability to build good books yourself, we can't concider macs easily in this arguement. How about getting a reply from a MacPro, MacMini or iMac user ?(mac pro is most "standardised" in configuration. so I welcome a mac pro user's reply.)

 

[kumarmohit]

The thing is that for most people, OS X is important than hardware itself. Though by no means is it ordinary.

But as Jobs himself said at the D conference with Bill gates, What is a mac? Its OSX in a pretty box but it is OSX.

Now assuming that most of the people want OSX and Apple has the capability to tweak it to perform equally well on non Apple hardware without having to go through as fundamental changes in the OS as would have been required if the Power PC version would have to be ported to X86 architecture. We can conclude that people have to buy Apple hardware because they want OS X which can be made to run on Non apple hardware very easily, Apple is following a restrictive trade practice.

If you want my software, you have to buy my hardware too. Why, because I have put in systems which make sure that it would not perform equally well elsewhere. TPM chip anyone, or wat is it EFI?

This can theoretically be considered a restrictive trade practice according to MRTP.

 

[ring_wraith]

Dude! I've had a Dell Inspiron 6400 for over 8 months and seen all the 'other' branded lappies (from Toshiba, HP, LG, Sony, etc..).

My MBP:

- does not creak when I close the lid
- the best screen ever. My LED powered screen pwns our 36" LCD TV also.
- has the best trackpad. I know trackpad gets 'smooth' and the buttons goes 'loose'. My MBP's trackpad is new as ever.
- motion and light sensors. Trust & believe me. I now can't live without them.
- good quality keys. My Dell keyboard key used to 'fade'. Frequently used keys smudge off in 3-4 months.
- My MBP in built speaker is best in class. It's better than the Altec Lancing powered HP Pavillion and 'DTS - Dolby Surround speakers' of Toshiba.
- I can go on.... but in the end, all I want to say is...

Mac does has a superior hardware. Don't confuse with config and 'superior' hardware.


And.. once a Mac user, always a Mac user. All my future PCs will be a Mac only.

Everything you've mentioned fits into the design category, and I can't believe you forgot about the MagSafe adaptor.

Hardware here refers to what you have called the "config". Therefore, the hardware itself, is quite ordinary.