Legality of Mac OS X TOS

[legolas]

Everything you've mentioned fits into the design category, and I can't believe you forgot about the MagSafe adaptor.

Hardware here refers to what you have called the "config". Therefore, the hardware itself, is quite ordinary.

what drgrudge meant as "superior hardware" may be misunderstood, had he not mentioned. I dont have a Mac myself. But I have seen what drgrudge has mentioned on my friend's laptop. And they are indeed true and superior. I have to accept this. I have no issues terming it as superior hardware. A keyboard design, monitor design and mouse/track pad design is also hardware.

 

[gxsaurav]

Exactly. That's all I'm saying. I hate to have to discuss so much only to be proven right in the end. Why can't people just agree with me when I'm right

You are lucky that I am not taking part in these conversations. Don't get cocky.

2. "Better" for me means running without any hassles and letting me do what I want it to do without having to keep troubleshooting it to keep it in running condition.

Ya we are doing the same with Vista now.

By virtue of that, the Mini is better than any PC in the world.

Let me guess, You have never seen Shuttle XPC, right?

I might do an Apple thing and call my Custom Built Computer "Something Else"

I call my PC "Lab Workstation" or just "Lab" for short

superior hardware

Dell XPS, Apple Macbook, HP Pavilion all made by Quanta

If I ever bought a mac, it would be for their few softwares that I find good. Their hardware and OS can never match the level of power and flexibility a personalised custom built computer(not PC) and a custom distro.

+1, bang on target.

If you already have a Mac then there is no point wiping Mac OS X from the machine & installing it on a PC. You paid for the OS to be used on Mac machine. You want to use something on the PC then you have Vista or Linux waiting for you.

 

[ring_wraith]

what drgrudge meant as "superior hardware" may be misunderstood

True. We all have different ideas of what fits into hardware and what fits into design. In my book, Hardware refers to the CPU, RAM, HDD etc.

 

[legolas]

^ ^ unfortunately, the etc.. also includes monitor, keyboard and mouse, to my knowledge. anyway, I wouldn't want to continue to quibble over this issue. Sorry for the difference of opinion.

 

[drgrudge]

How about getting a reply from a MacPro, MacMini or iMac user ?(mac pro is most "standardised" in configuration. so I welcome a mac pro user's reply.)

I've a MBP and I love it. People who have Mac Pro (nepeker) or iMac (goobimama) will vouch for it and sing it's praise. The bottom line is almost all the Mac users are happy with their Mac, irrespective of what Mac hardware it's.

Everything you've mentioned fits into the design category, and I can't believe you forgot about the MagSafe adaptor.

Likewise there's this Apple Remote. I love AppleTV/Front Row. Like I've said I missed a quite a few. I can go on... don't want to waste my time and yours.

Hardware here refers to what you have called the "config". Therefore, the hardware itself, is quite ordinary.

Eh? Config? Who the hell do refer LED powered monitors in config? Does good trackpad comes in config? Don't get confused. Mac does have good design and superior hardware.

True. We all have different ideas of what fits into hardware and what fits into design. In my book, Hardware refers to the CPU, RAM, HDD etc.

Dude! While there's a thin, delicate line seperating design and superior hardware; trackpad, mouse, monitor, keyboard too come in hardware only.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

You are lucky that I am not taking part in these conversations. Don't get cocky.

he never understood what I was trying to say. He said installing OSX on a PC would get you into muddy waters, but actually, you are hardly doing anything. Take your own example, saurav. You yourself said that having a legal vista key and downloading a "customised" vista dvd from the net is not illegal. If you are right, ayyush is wrong.

Ya we are doing the same with Vista now.

but doing it simultaeneously attracts n00bs and alienates geeks

Let me guess, You have never seen Shuttle XPC, right?

Shuttle What ?

I call my PC "Lab Workstation" or just "Lab" for short

A PC is a PC if its a computer manufactured by IBM thats not called PS/2 and made for home/SOHO/entertainment use. There are no PCs in existance in the market by that defination.

+1, bang on target.

If you already have a Mac then there is no point wiping Mac OS X from the machine & installing it on a PC. You paid for the OS to be used on Mac machine. You want to use something on the PC then you have Vista or Linux waiting for you.

didn't I say custom OS ?
anyway, who said there is no point in wiping mac osx from a macintosh and installing it on some other computer ? Remember my old example about buying a cheap old mac for a throwaway price and installing its OSX on the computer of your choice instead ?


Let me tell the possible reasons people buy apple hardware(excluding portable stuff like MacBook, iPod, iPhone, etc which are rather good due to the non existance of custom built hardware in the same catogary):

• the person wants to use OSX for its eye-candy
• the person was influenced into buying it due to its flaunt value
• the person is a hardcore apple fan
• the person is too dumb to use an OS that needs you to do stuff
• the person loves the good looking hardware that apple sells
• the person needs some mac only software for work
• the person has been brain washed by an apple fanboy
• the person learnt to use a Mac to begin with, and now can't switch
• the person is too lazy to learn internal stuff, which he needs to do in order to use other computers
• the person is ignorant and thinks look is everything
• the person can get apple hardware cheap, compared to other hardware
• the person conciders ease of use by anyone more important than anything else
  

now, only the uderlined cases can be exempted as being seriously valid reasons for a "proper"(read smart, intelligent, sensible and hard working) guy to buy a mac instead of building his own computer.

I've a MBP and I love it. People who have Mac Pro (nepeker) or iMac (goobimama) will vouch for it and sing it's praise. The bottom line is almost all the Mac users are happy with their Mac, irrespective of what Mac hardware it's.

then I request goobimama and nepeker to reply here please !

=======================================================
and finally a warning to all: don't make this a mac vs <your comp> thread
=======================================================

 

[gxsaurav]

I've a MBP and I love it. People who have Mac Pro (nepeker) or iMac (goobimama) will vouch for it and sing it's praise. The bottom line is almost all the Mac users are happy with their Mac, irrespective of what Mac hardware it's.


Likewise there's this Apple Remote. I love AppleTV/Front Row. Like I've said I missed a quite a few. I can go on... don't want to waste my time and yours.

I wonder why Apple users have a feeling that they are the only ones enjoying computing

 

[drgrudge]

I wonder why Apple users have a feeling that they are the only ones enjoying computing

Honestly I enjoy my computing better than when I was using a PC.

JFYI, I still have a Windows PC, but none of us use. My brother, my dad and everyone who sees my Mac say that they like it. I'm not exaggerating and I've no reason to do so also.

 

[gxsaurav]

Take your own example, saurav. You yourself said that having a legal vista key and downloading a "customised" vista dvd from the net is not illegal.

Don't twist the words, I said that having a legal key & then downloading a non-customised Vista from the net is immoral but not illegal or piracy. You are using the legal key anyway whether it is with box pack of Vista or something downloaded via torrent.

If you have a box pack of Vista, you can even give it back to MS to get a new Box pack with Vista + SP1 integrated.

Get the facts dude. And don't throw that heavy Emperor penguin at me, if we meet in Bangalore

Shuttle What ?

Shuttle this....chullu bhar pani main doob mar yaar.

Let me tell the possible reasons people buy apple hardware(excluding portable stuff like MacBook, iPod, iPhone, etc which are rather good due to the non existance of custom built hardware in the same catogary):

• the person wants to use OSX for its eye-candy
• the person was influenced into buying it due to its flaunt value
• the person is a hardcore apple fan
• the person is too dumb to use an OS that needs you to do stuff
• the person loves the good looking hardware that apple sells
• the person needs some mac only software for work
• the person has been brain washed by an apple fanboy
• the person learnt to use a Mac to begin with, and now can't switch
• the person is too lazy to learn internal stuff, which he needs to do in order to use other computers
• the person is ignorant and thinks look is everything
• the person can get apple hardware cheap, compared to other hardware
• the person conciders ease of use by anyone more important than anything else

now, only the uderlined cases can be exempted as being seriously valid reasons for a "proper"(read smart, intelligent, sensible and hard working) guy to buy a mac instead of building his own computer.

You kicked the arse of Macboys better then I did

=======================================================
and finally a warning to all: don't make this a mac vs <your comp> thread
=======================================================

Sorry, can't stop but My Workstation is better then all the Macs of Macboys here, sans nepcker who has a Mac Pro.

Honestly I enjoy my computing better than when I was using a PC.

JFYI, I still have a Windows PC, but none of us use. My brother, my dad and everyone who sees my Mac like it and say that they like it. I'm not exaggerating and I've no reason to do so also.

Same way, we Windows users are enjoying computing from a distance of 10 feet from the couch even before your Front row was copied from Windows Media Center..(example)

Don't talk like Mac users are only the ones who are enjoying easy computing. Even serious Linux users like Mehul & Kalpik are enjoying computing cos they know how to use a computer/OS. Most of the Mac users don't want to learn anything, which does makes sense cos even I don't want to learn Linux but at least I don't say that Linux/Mac users are not enjoying computing.

We all are enjoying computing our way, you enjoy on your Mac, I enjoy on my Workstation, Gautam enjoys at his Gautam OS 2 which I think is linux.

 

[praka123]

OS X -it is for those who want to feel elite seeing the eyecandy.
those lazybutts(most!) who cant open a terminal...
only for those who wants a internet+multimedia tool .
well ,OS X is *NIX that is sad!

 

[legolas]

We all are enjoying computing our way, you enjoy on your Mac, I enjoy on my Workstation, Gautam enjoys at his Gautam OS 2 which I think is linux.

Very true. Very true. I use my Vista and am extremely satisfied with it ( I have not used any external firewall or antivirus for the past 5-6 years) and I use Ubuntu occasionally and I am not having any issues with it either.
//may be this is off-topic, sorry if it is.
But, the question to ask is, again I am not arguing/deciding on anything. Those who have used Mac/Linux/Windows (I mean all 3), do they really feel Mac is the best compromise (not in rate), with hardware, superior hardware (as in LED monitors, keyboard lights and stuffs), an OS X and everything taken into consideration?? Are they vouching on it without any prejudice or bias?

 

[aryayush]

The only possible use for a mac is to "legally" run iLife and similar Mac exclusive apps that are face savers to the apple lineup.

"You pretty much can't go wrong with anything Apple is currently selling"
“We’ve tested the Mac Pro, MacBook, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, the iMac, the Mac Mini, and the XServe,” exclaims Richard Hoffman (informationweek.com). “There’s not a bad Apple among the bunch, and some are truly superb.” In fact, Hoffman stipulates that “the entire product line is one of the strongest Apple’s ever had. Without hyperbole, it may be the best overall line of computers anyone has had, ever.” [Mar 24, 2008]

And this lineup, according to you, needs "face saving" by iLife and similar applications? You're wandering dangerously close to "anti-Apple fanboy" territory.

First you have to answer me (I assume that you have a Mac- iMac, MD, MBP MBA. Macmini or mac pro watever) Why did you buy it? Was it because of the hardware only or was the main reason of your purchasing that you wanted OS X?

I bought a Mac for the following reasons : Design (if I hadn't bought a Mac, I would've owned a Sony Vaio), superior hardware and OS X in that order. Now that I've used a Mac for 6 months, I think I would want to own a {future} Mac for : Apps/OS X, Design and Superior hardware in that order.

Couldn't have said it better myself. My reasons would be exactly the same.

The thing is that for most people, OS X is important than hardware itself. Though by no means is it ordinary.

Right-o.

Now assuming that most of the people want OSX and Apple has the capability to tweak it to perform equally well on non Apple hardware

No, they don't. How can you assume that they do? The moment Apple starts attempting to support all the graphics and sound cards, processors and motherboards in the world, Mac OS X will lose the stability that Apple prides itself on.

Apple is not following restrictive trade policies, they're ensuring that all their customers get top-notch products. If it means restricting themselves to just a small subset of the market, they're ready to make that sacrifice. Brand value, product quality and customer satisfaction and loyalty is far more important to Steve Jobs than a large market share.

The one time they decided to make the software while letting someone else take care of the hardware, we all know what the end result turned out to be like. I'm talking, of course, about the Moto ROKR crap.

Macs are what they are only because Apple does the whole monty. The software and hardware are not engineered in two separate factories with no link between them. It's all housed under one roof and under the tight control of one visionary person who knows what he's doing. More importantly, he knows what the customer wants better than the customers themselves.

Henry Ford once said something along the lines of, "If I'd asked my potential customers what they wanted when I set out to make the first car, we'd have ended up with faster bullock-carts." That's not the exact quote. The actual one does not involve bullock-carts and is much better, but I hope you get the point.

You don't know what you want. Yeah, that sounds funny, but it's true.

Whenever we have any suggestions or requests to make, we always leave the crucial decisions upon the maker. For example, I want Apple to make a digital camera, so I'll say, "I wish Apple made a simple digital camera that wasn't a pain to use. I don't care how or what they do, I just want them to do it like only they can." In this case, I know I want a digital camera, but I have no idea what exactly I want and how that product can be made.

Similarly, you know you want Mac OS X because all those marketing buzzwords and customer reviews sound too good to be true, but you don't actually want the OS. You want an OS that performs like Mac OS X does, but you can't have that without the Macs that are tailor-made for it and power it.

Also take note of the fact that the one OS in the industry that is the prime example of the most bug-ridden, virus infected, insecure and problem-prone platform is Windows, which also happens to be the only closed source OS in the industry that you can purchase independently and install on any hardware of your choosing. Clearly, it's not the ideal solution, because we wouldn't otherwise be discussing Mac OS X here.

Mac OS X works and is what it is because of those restrictions you're complaining about. The moment you kill the chicken, it'll stop laying the golden eggs. So, you should think before you point fingers.


Also, I'm actually quite happy that we are having this discussion, no matter how redundant it may be, because even if no one is explicitly stating so, the general sentiment is quite clear. Most of you guys agree that Mac OS X is indeed the most superior OS out there. When Microsoft restricted the running of Vista Home Basic on virtual machines, we [Mac users] didn't sit here discussing whether it was legal or not if we did so, because, to put it quite bluntly, no one gave a ****. That's clearly not the case here.

I don't know why people find it so difficult to agree that some other OS, browser or mobile phone is better than the one they use. I, for one, agree that Sony Ericsson has trumped Nokia (which I use now) and Firefox is now better than Opera (which I've advocated for the better part of the several years of Internet browsing behind me).

Just come out and say it, people–no one is going to laugh at you (though there might be a few "I told you sos"). I'm pointing at the gx_sauravs and iMavs (who was so inspired by the iMac that he changed his username) in particular, who've been secretly whispering sweet nothings to their illegal Mac OS X installations for the past several months.

(ring_wraith, kumarmohit and others who actually read the posts they are posting replies to are welcome to weigh in with their opinions. Please don't post idiotic and irrelevant replies just to serve as flamebait. The gx_sauravs need not apply.)

 

[narangz]

I thought this thread was for discussing legalities & not butt kicking

 

[infra_red_dude]

I thought this thread was for discussing legalities & not butt kicking

Sigh! thats the fate of every damn thread here at TD forums... Waiting for kumarmohit to come up with the analysis he's made...

Is it illegal? Can breach of contract be termed illegal? Crime? You may be morally wrong in installing OS X on PC but can you be tried for that? I'm interested to know about these things...

 

[gxsaurav]

Wow arya, u got so much calibar & no life to sit in front of your Mac, drool over it & type so much....& u still haven't paid me my Rs 1,000 I won in the bet. .... Why do u want me to reply here point by & kick at that Apple...

I'm pointing at the gx_sauravs and iMavs (who was so inspired by the iMac that he changed his username) in particular, who've been secretly whispering sweet nothings to their illegal Mac OS X installations for the past several months.

(ring_wraith, kumarmohit and others who actually read the posts they are posting replies to are welcome to weigh in with their opinions. Please don't post idiotic and irrelevant replies just to serve as flamebait. The gx_sauravs need not apply.)

oh! & just for the record, I removed Mac OS X 4 months back.

 

[iMav]

has all this sprung up due to my statement of taming the lame cat ,

@grudgy this issue of providing support or no was well put to rest when zeeshan and co (me & gx) installed tiger on our machines and all threads related to installing or how-to install osx on a pc have since then been locked

@kumar: bhai indian it laws are sh1t and here its raaboism and not indian laws

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

yummy!

 

[drgrudge]

has all this sprung up due to my statement of taming the lame cat ,

@grudgy this issue of providing support or no was well put to rest when zeeshan and co (me & gx) installed tiger on our machines and all threads related to installing or how-to install osx on a pc have since then been locked

@kumar: bhai indian it laws are sh1t and here its raaboism and not indian laws

None gives a **** as what you do or think about Mac OS X.

Just cited your example. None here after will be supported. Threads will be just be deleted.

Like you said, we don't give a damn about Indian IT Laws. This place is run by Dictators. You abide by what we say or get the **** out of here.

 

[iMav]

The moment Apple starts attempting to support all the graphics and sound cards, processors and motherboards in the world, Mac OS X will lose the stability that Apple prides itself on.

+1

Apple is not following restrictive trade policies, they're ensuring that all their customers get top-notch products.

not following restrictive trade policies ... what crap

If it means restricting themselves to just a small subset of the market, they're ready to make that sacrifice. Brand value, product quality and customer satisfaction and loyalty is far more important to Steve Jobs than a large market share.

have to agree here for steve jobs he is more content by blaming and crying that billy g "stole" his idea and has influenced more comp sales than the baldy can ever dream of

The one time they decided to make the software while letting someone else take care of the hardware, we all know what the end result turned out to be like. I'm talking, of course, about the Moto ROKR crap.

rokr and ming are the best cell phones that motorola has come up with in terms of use

Macs are what they are only because Apple does the whole monty. The software and hardware are not engineered in two separate factories with no link between them. It's all housed under one roof and under the tight control of one visionary person who knows what he's doing.

in simpler terms restrictive trade policies

More importantly, he knows what the customer wants better than the customers themselves.

bang on target, users dont want a2dp, bluetooth, vdo rec, ability to run multiple apps on their fones and people sure dont want to keep their own ringtone on the fone

Henry Ford once said something along the lines of, "If I'd asked my potential customers what they wanted when I set out to make the first car, we'd have ended up with faster bullock-carts." That's not the exact quote. The actual one does not involve bullock-carts and is much better, but I hope you get the point.

yeah and we all know ford's sales

Also take note of the fact that the one OS in the industry that is the prime example of the most bug-ridden, virus infected, insecure and problem-prone platform is Windows, which also happens to be the only closed source OS in the industry that you can purchase independently and install on any hardware of your choosing. Clearly, it's not the ideal solution, because we wouldn't otherwise be discussing Mac OS X here.

some 1 needs to read the reports abt which OS has the least vulnerabilities ...

Mac OS X works and is what it is because of those restrictions you're complaining about.

restrictive trade policies

I don't know why people find it so difficult to agree that some other OS, browser or mobile phone is better than the one they use. I, for one, agree that Sony Ericsson has trumped Nokia (which I use now) and Firefox is now better than Opera (which I've advocated for the better part of the several years of Internet browsing behind me).

Just come out and say it, people–no one is going to laugh at you (though there might be a few "I told you sos"). I'm pointing at the gx_sauravs and iMavs (who was so inspired by the iMac that he changed his username) in particular, who've been secretly whispering sweet nothings to their illegal Mac OS X installations for the past several months.

wasnt the iMac - considering the fact u know the difference between an iMac and OS X on a pc

None gives a **** as what you do or think about Mac OS X.

tu toh senti ho gaya

None here after will be supported. Threads will be just be deleted.

thts whats been happning since the tiger installation by zeeshan was first made public here

Like you said, we don't give a damn about Indian IT Laws. This place is run by Dictators. You abide by what we say or get the **** out of here.

period

 

[ring_wraith]

(ring_wraith, kumarmohit and others who actually read the posts they are posting replies to are welcome to weigh in with their opinions. Please don't post idiotic and irrelevant replies just to serve as flamebait. The gx_sauravs need not apply.)

lol... fine print, that's really killing me.

Anyway, @iMav, not the rokr E6, this one :
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_ROKR

also, @aayush, from the restrictive trade website,

It fosters the competitive environment necessary to give consumers a choice in price, quality and service.

Therefore, Apple is indeed practicing restrictive trade. Take my case for example, I want to install Mac OS X on my PC, and would rather not buy a Mac in order to be able to use aforementioned OS. Therefore, I am being denied my choice of OS.

Although I completely agree with you when you say that Apple's software and hardware were not meant to exist independently.