Legality of Mac OS X TOS

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ring_wraith

=--=l33t=--=
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

4. It makes no sense to try installing Mac OS X onto a PC anyway. Mac OS X and Macs are designed to work best with each other and neither can be fully appreciated without the other. If you spend the time and effort into getting Mac OS X installed on a PC and then in maintaining it, you've already defeated the whole purpose of using Mac OS X. You're not supposed to have to go to all that trouble to use it. Ask ring_wraith, he has first hand experience.

+1 on all of that. I actually feel that the whole reason Apple offers such great products is because of how tightly the Hardware and Software tie up.

Anyways, coming back to the discussion at hand, in theory, as I've read on the site that started the whole Mac on PC movement, it is legal to install OSX on a PC by only 2 methods:

1) Buy a Mac, Wipe OSX off, and Install it wherever you may wish. This, as mentioned, is quite pointless. This method is also highly questionable.
2) Become an Apple Dev. One solid definite way to install OSX legally on a PC.
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

@ aryaayush and ring_wraith

While i totally agree that there is not a great reason would anyone want to do it, we are debating what if someone actually does it.There are a number of people doing it and in India too. Where do they stand is what I am trying to decide and should people actually use the phrase Installing OS X on non apple hardware is illegal. I have high objection to usage of term illegal.

2. Even if you buy a Mac or Mac OS X, you cannot use the included disk to install it on a PC. You'll need to wade into murky waters for that, so I'm not sure how it could be considered legal;

Buy a Mac, Wipe OSX off, and Install it wherever you may wish. This, as mentioned, is quite pointless. This method is also highly questionable.

And this is what my point is. As of now according to Indian law, it is in harmony with the law. When you break an agreement, you do not commit a crime, breach of contracts happens all the time. Consider the avast Home edition example.

And I just checked that Black Macbook is 68000 + taxes in Delhi. Comparing to the Dubai prices, does it become cheaper there?

damn! why does all the awesome discussion happen when I'm sleeping?!!!
Since we are in India and this is day time here, not the time to be asleep:)

well anyways, I'm glad to know I can install my favourite OS on any system I use.

Dont bother, it is still a crime unless you wipe it off the original Mac
 
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ring_wraith

=--=l33t=--=
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

@kumarmohit I see what you mean, but you are on shaky grounds there.
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

that is why i am trying to confirm it with teachers at my ex law college
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
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There are a number of people doing it and in India too. Where do they stand is what I am trying to decide
You do realise that the vast majority of these people you're referring to do not own Macs. And the few that are doing it even though they own a Mac do not wipe OS X off their Mac. So, IMHO, every single person doing it without Apple's official approval is doing it illegally. As you can see, this is in accordance with your theory too. :)

1) How to play subtitles with .mkv files ?? ( VLC or QT )
If the subtitles are embedded, they'll play all by themselves. If they're not, you'll have to place the subtitle file in the same folder as the movie, make sure both files have exactly the same name and then launch the MKV file. Both QuickTime and VLC will automatically use the subtitle file. In VLC, you can also hit ⌘⇧O, enable "Load subtitles file:", hit 'Settings...' and select any subtitle file on your Mac and use it with any movie. No need to place them in the same folder and make sure they have the same name. I prefer QuickTime Player. :)

The AIR with SSD is not available in India at all.
You place an order for it. It will take some time but you can buy it in India. You'll have to sell your house, of course. :p
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I tend to agree with you. However, I have a few points here:
1. Like Preshit said, no one would ever want to uninstall Mac OS X from their Mac and install in on their PC. It just makes no sense;
2. Even if you buy a Mac or Mac OS X, you cannot use the included disk to install it on a PC. You'll need to wade into murky waters for that, so I'm not sure how it could be considered legal;
3. Violation of the EULA is also a serious matter. Sure, it's not a crime, but it isn't the right thing to do either; and
4. It makes no sense to try installing Mac OS X onto a PC anyway. Mac OS X and Macs are designed to work best with each other and neither can be fully appreciated without the other. If you spend the time and effort into getting Mac OS X installed on a PC and then in maintaining it, you've already defeated the whole purpose of using Mac OS X. You're not supposed to have to go to all that trouble to use it. Ask ring_wraith, he has first hand experience.
1. Completely agree with you there.

2. You needn't. A Mac IS a PC. As long as I have the same configuration, there will be no problem.

3. Agreed again.

4. Again, a Mac IS a PC. If I buy a PC of the same configuration, there won't be any cooperation related problems between the PC and the OS. And the perpose of using Mac OSX may be ease of use to you, but most of us want it only for software like iLife.


And the breach of EULA issue has certain differences from the Avast Home Edition Case here:

Avast home is free of cost. They are giving you something for free, so you definitely need to use it only in the place(home) they want you to in the EULA. And they are not restricting the usage in any way. Indian laws too have commercial vs non commercial distinction. You can't use a home LPG cylinder in your hotel.

Apple case on the other hand is an entirely different case. Here, they are trying to force a monopolistic rule onto you. They want you to use their software ONLY on their hardware. So this particular case might be intresting to see if it reaches the court. Ofcource, newspapers and the common janatha will be too dumb to understand the heart of the issue, but it shouldn't be a problem in the Supreme Court.

Lets take medicine patents in India. The various life saving drugs have huge royalities assosiated with them, but the Govt of India allows their imitations to be sold cheap in India. The constitution is basically Anti-Monopolistic.
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

2. You needn't. A Mac IS a PC. As long as I have the same configuration, there will be no problem.

...

4. Again, a Mac IS a PC. If I buy a PC of the same configuration, there won't be any cooperation related problems between the PC and the OS. And the perpose of using Mac OSX may be ease of use to you, but most of us want it only for software like iLife.
You obviously speak without any experience at all in this area. I'm glad that you don't have any experience about this thing but certainly not that you still chose to refuse my statements, based on whims and opinions.

You cannot install Mac OS X on a PC using any of Apple's own disks. There is absolutely no way to do it. There are ways to install it on a PC, of course, but I won't even hint on how you do it here. Rest assured though that it does not involve the original Mac OS X install disk in any way.

As for not having issues with similarly configured PCs, you're wrong (again). Go to any of the hackint0sh related forums and you'll see how many problems people have and how people with similar problems and similar configurations cannot solve them with similar solutions. There are no tried and tested ways and the number of unsuccessful users who give up after a lot of effort is far higher than the number of people who become successful.

It's not only not easy, it's darn difficult. Even on almost exactly the same hardware, because no matter how similar the hardware, you can ever have the same motherboard.

iMav (or maybe it was gx_saurav) admitted in public once that he'd had to reinstall OS X seven times before he was successful. And even after that, he used to report strange issues that none of us actual Mac users have ever faced or even heard of. Of course, they blamed it all on the OS but we know the real cause of those issues.

That's why I asked you to ask ring_wraith, and he has even affirmed it for us on the previous page. He wanted to try Mac OS X before going out and buying an actual Mac. I told him not to, but he had his reasons to do it. I told him about the things that could, and would, go wrong and how it just won't be the Mac experience. He tried it anyway and he replied later that I was right. He's, of course, an amicable fellow so he was quick to admit it when he was wrong.

So ask him and you'll know.

Installing Mac OS X on a PC is no child's play. And it's the truth that even after you're successful (if you are), it's not even remotely the same as a Mac. And if it isn't, there's no point in it. Because a Mac is all about easy of use and rock solid integration and stability. You don't want it, don't buy a Mac or use Mac OS X. There are iLife replacements on Windows that do the same things. Sure, they do it in a half-assed way and are complicated, but then if you're the sort of person who uses a hackint0sh, you thrive on that sort of crap anyway.

Installing Mac OS X on a PC is, for all intents and purposes, illegal. Because the exceptional circumstances that kumarmohit mentioned are just not practical. I can understand a Mac user wanting to install OS X on his PC too (which is, of course, illegal), but no Mac user would ever uninstall the OS from his Mac, obtain it through questionable means (because, come Hell or high water, the original disk won't do) and then try to install it on his PC. Who'd be an idiot enough to try that!


As for Apple's restricting Mac OS X from PCs being monopolistic or whatever, that's just sour grapes. Do you ***** when game developers restrict games from running on low-end machines? They know their software best and they don't think running it on those PCs will give you a satisfying experience. It's their decision to make. Who're you to question it? Do you complain when Sony Ericsson does not allow you to install their OS on other phones? Or when Hyundai wouldn't allow you install their engine into another car? Do you say, "I bought the parts. It's my wish what I do with them."

Please talk some sense. If you can't/won't buy a Mac, that's your problem. Why blame the company for their business practices, which are perfectly ethical, not any different from the norm and are in the best interests of their paying customers? I know Mac OS X is so darned awesome because it only has to run on a handful of configurations and I love that fact. I don't want Apple to screw up that arrangement. Who're you to object to it when the customers are loyally and happily buying those products, knowing their limitations, and are satisfied with them (and much more so than customers of other companies)?

Think about it. :)
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

^^I just discussed legal issues there.

regarding the customer satisfaction point, I have no comments. Your comments sound inspirational to the ears of an Apple Fan, and hypocritic to the ears of a sceptic. So I don't want to comment there.

As for installing mac OS on a PC, I have read suffitient hackintosh websites.
I just said no external hack is needed to install mac OS on a properly configured PC.
Google for Hackintosh if you want to know what I mean.

Lets forget hackintosh and go to the legal part.

What we are discussing is if it can be illegal under Indian Law to legally buy a copy of Apple Inc's Macintosh OSX Leopard and install it on a Computer thats not manufactured by Apple.

Constitutional and Legal clauses are welcome to be shared here to validate points.


Installing Mac OS X on a PC is, for all intents and purposes, illegal. Because the exceptional circumstances that kumarmohit mentioned are just not practical. I can understand a Mac user wanting to install OS X on his PC too (which is, of course, illegal), but no Mac user would ever uninstall the OS from his Mac, obtain it through questionable means (because, come Hell or high water, the original disk won't do) and then try to install it on his PC. Who'd be an idiot enough to try that!

an intresting situation he had described. What if I buy a cheap old second hand macmini and a high end Custom built Computer and removed mac osx from the former and installed it in the later ?
 
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aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I just said no external hack is needed to install mac OS on a properly configured PC.
You mean to say that it is possible to install the install disk that came with my Mac into a "properly configured PC" and have OS X up and running in twenty minutes, just as if it were a Mac?

If that answer to that question is in the affirmative, then you're either mistaken or lying.
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

one more small fact: the original apple os disc may not be usable to install mac on a pc after removing it from apple hardware, I agree, but making (modded)copies is definitely not illegal. If that was the case, nLite guys might have got sued long back by M$. Making a personal backup of a software disc is perfectly legal in most countries(especially India)
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

an intresting situation he had described. What if I buy a cheap old second hand macmini and a high end Custom built Computer and removed mac osx from the former and installed it in the later ?
Trust me, Mac OS X would perform much better on the Mini, compared to your eight-core PC.
 
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You mean to say that it is possible to install the install disk that came with my Mac into a "properly configured PC" and have OS X up and running in twenty minutes, just as if it were a Mac?

If that answer to that question is in the affirmative, then you're either mistaken or lying.
Wait for my PM with the link;)
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Sure. I'll have to read it tomorrow though. I'm way too sleepy today and am leaving for Kolkata tomorrow. :)
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

You sent me two links and both of them require a custom (patched) install disk of Leopard. Like I said, you cannot install Mac OS X using any official DVD on a PC. It's impossible.

Now, why am I not surprised!
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

You sent me two links and both of them require a custom (patched) install disk of Leopard. Like I said, you cannot install Mac OS X using any official DVD on a PC. It's impossible.

Now, why am I not surprised!
the links I sent you clearly stated that there was hardly anything extra in the custom DVDs.

And I too agree that the offitial DVD can't usually be used to install on a PC, but installing from a patched version while owning the legal version is not illegal. So from legal point of view, I can do nothing wrong.
 

yash

I draw every day
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Trust me, Mac OS X would perform much better on the Mini, compared to your eight-core PC.
describe "better"

full featured but deathly slow? then yeah, it will run 'better' on the mac mini.

but for me, better means swift/fast and responsive.
 
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Trust me, Mac OS X would perform much better on the Mini, compared to your eight-core PC.
never saw this post of yours before...

so here is my reply:

how ? You think that a MacMini G2 bought for 2k can run Mac OS X better than an 8 core PC ?
Your point might be valid if al you want are offitial commercial support from apple.

But cases like mine are different.

I use Gautham OS II as my primary OS(don't ask me how I make it), windows vista for gaming and mac for timepass and iLife in this scenario. How can Leopard, resting in a custom virtual machine, be faster when on a MacMini G2 ?
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Let alone the hardware part, we are still to decide about if the usage of phrase "Installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is illiegal" is correct.

Should it not be "breach of Apple EULA" instead of "illegal" considering that both are two different things.

Nad BTW MetalheadGautham, there was no MacMini G2 AFAIK. Minis started with Power 5 series processors.
 

yash

I draw every day
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I downloaded the ipod reset utility they released today for the ipod shuffles. And in hopes of reviving my dead ipod shuffle, I plugged it in and clicked reset on the application. But shortly after, I got an error. So I just thought I'd try again. but this time, the process has been going on for a 'long time' and its just stuck at 'resetting ipod (Recovery mode) Do not disconnect' no lights on my ipod shuffle are blinking or turned on. it also warns me against disconnecting my ipod now.
 
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