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Legality of Mac OS X TOS

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kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Guyz

I was going through the Indian Copyright Act and Indian Contracts Act. Look what I found.

Contrary to what you think, there is no crime in installing OS X on a PC if you strip it from a Mac you purchased. It is a breach of contract, a civil wrong, a wrong against a single entity as opposed to a crime which a wrong against the state.

I assume that you know the difference between the breach of contract and a crime.

When you strip OS X off a Mac and install it on a PC it is a breach of EULA, which is a contract.

It is not piracy as piracy is when you pay for one copy and install more than one copies or when you install it without paying for it. Since you wiped the copy from first place, and you paid for one copy only, you are in the realm of law even if you install it on non Apple hardware.

There is no provision in Indian copyrights Act which restricts how you use your copy. Take it like this. You purchase a CD from Sony music. They can not claim that if you play the CD in a player by Philips and not by Sony, it would be a breach of copyright. Contrary to what most people think, Indian laws do allow you to use the thing of which you get a license in the way you want.

There is difference between breach of EULA and piracy. Installing OSX on a PC after you have wiped it off from a Mac you purchased is a breach of EULA not Piracy.

Please remember that in India we are governed by Indian Contract Act and Indian Copyrights Act. Breach of contract is NOT a Crime in India.

In case you run OSX on a PC It would be covered under the Indian Contract Act. It is a civil wrong, a breach of contract, not a crime so technically it is not illegal.

The maximum Jobs can do is ask you for compensation. He can not get you tried for a crime. The term illegal means something which is contrary to the law. Breach of contract is not a crime. It is civil wrong. Since the law does allow you to use your copy the way you want, Apple can not regulate where you use your copy of OSX, provided that you are ready to pay the damages (Not fine - fine is paid to state not to the offended party. Damages are paid to the offended party in a civil case.) of loss. These damages can in no case be more than the price you paid for the said Mac.

Here text of the laws I base this argument upon.

http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/indiancontractact/indiancontractact.html
http://www.ircc.iitb.ac.in/webnew/Indian Copyright Act 1957.html

Please do not consider this the official word. I am still discussing the matter with my teachers at Campus Law center, University of Delhi. I would post the final part as soon as we reach to a definite legal conclusion.

Update 1: If you install OSX without purchasing a Mac, It is definitely a crime. The condition I discussed above assumes that you purchase a Mac and wipe OSX off that machine.


[Mod Edit: drgrudge]
Members need not get carried away by what was been debated. Just a reminder on our forum policies. So even if it's 'legal' according to Indian laws, we won't permit discussing/supporting the same. Hell, we don't even allow discussion on torrent sites/trackers and related news.

Installing OS X in any other thing than a Mac or an iPhone is illegal. No discussions will be permitted. People who manage to install (like iMav) will not be supported (atleast via threads/posts in this forum).
 
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ray|raven

Think Zen.
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

^Wow,how much work did you do for this post dude?
IMHO, this deserves a seperate thread,Quite a few folks on the forums would love to read this!.
Make another thread dude.

Again, Wonderful work on the post.
111.gif
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I would make another thread when I am fully assured by my teachers. :)
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Disclaimer: I didn't read what was posted.


To hell with the Indian IT laws. You don't own this forum. If you want to be part of the community, you need to abide by the god damn rules we set here.

Installing OS X in any other thing than a Mac or an iPhone is illegal. No discussions will be permitted. People who manage to install (like iMav) will not be supported (atleast via threads/posts in this forum).

Hope I'm clear on what I wanted to communicate.
 

preshit.net

ex3n1us m4x1mus
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Although I appreciate your efforts put into the research, I do not understand the point being made here.

According to you, it is not a crime if one purchases a Mac and wipe off the OS and installs it on a non-Apple hardware. But, why in the world would anyone install the OS on non-Apple hardware when he's actually paying for the excellent hardware that comes with it.

Almost everyone who buys the Mac, uses it as it is. There are many reasons that go into his decision of buying the Mac, great hardware design being one of them. I don't understand why would anyone strip off the OS in the first place.
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Hey! calm down grudgy. I am not saying that you should install it. I am discussing a legal scenario!

What is the topic of discussion here is the legality of OSX installation on non Apple hardware according to laws of India. We are not discussing how you do it.

I think that when someone posts actual steps to do it, I would be the first one to report it. Surely discussing if something is legal or not is not against the rules.

I am trying to analyze if the word illegal is the correct word in the case you used it.

for example
Installing OS X in any other thing than a Mac or an iPhone is illegal.

What I am saying here is that use of term illegal is incorrect. Instead of saying that it is illegal, you have to say that it is a breach of the Apple EULA.


Please do read what I posted.

@ Dark Lord

I see no point in ripping and installing it either. I hope you get wt I said now.
 
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drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

kumarmohit / others -
Members need not get carried away by what was been debated. Just a reminder on our forum policies. So even if it's 'legal' according to Indian laws, we won't permit discussing/supporting the same. Hell, we don't even allow discussion on torrent sites/trackers and related news.

Sure you can debate abt the legalities, otherwise I would've deleted/edited your posts. :p


kumarmohit said:
Theoretically If Apple stops us from using its software on non Apple hardware, it can also say that you cannot use non Apple software on Apple hardware.
You've interpreted it wrong. Apple says don't use my software (OS X) in non Apple Hardware. There's no restriction on the hardware. Say if Microsoft had restricted the use of Windows on Apple Hardware, then installing would be illegal. But there's no such restrictions. If you buy a Mac, you can run OS X, Windows and *nix.
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

What I am saying here is that use of term illegal is incorrect. Instead of saying that it is illegal, you have to say that it is a breach of the Apple EULA.
And the apple EULA is yet to be challenged in an Indian court, as far as I can remember.
So no verdict on legality or illegality can be given right here.

@grudge: chill out man... I too didn't read what was posted, btw :D

Update: I just went through raaabo's siggy:
http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/announcement.php?f=3

after combing the article in detail, I conclude that what grudge says is neither true nor false. Issues like this are not delt with there, and the admins need to rewrite or make a revision of that post to let us know what they want us to do in situations like these.
(chaddi shopping can wait:lol:)
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

^^ Exactly and as of now, there is no legal precedent which makes it possible for Apple to put this restriction.

Now, the basic principle of the common law (which is applicable in India) is that unless something is explicitly stated by the law as illegal or in any way contrary to the law, it is considered to be in harmony with the law and thus allowed.

Since there is no such precedent or legislation which says that Apple limiting people to its hardware is allowed and installation of OSX on non Apple hardware is a breach of copyright. (Please read the Sony music CD example I gave in the first post) installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is not a crime. Hence the usage of term " installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is illegal" is incorrect.


You've interpreted it wrong. Apple says don't use my software (OS X) in non Apple Hardware. There's no restriction on the hardware. Say if Microsoft had restricted the use of Windows on Apple Hardware, then installing would be illegal. But there's no such restrictions. If you buy a Mac, you can run OS X, Windows and *nix.
@ grudge, I am not saying that Apple restricts you now, I am saying what if it does so in the future. What if Apple takes the dominant position in 10 years and then starts restricting it. (Considering the potential of the company, the performance of Apple and of Vista, I think that in ten years Apple be in a mood and market position to do so)

Similarly would it be a breach if I buy an X serve and install OS X from a Mac Pro on it and install the OS X server on the Mac Pro. I am on Apple hardware, yet the hardware is not the one i purchased it with.

Raaabo's rules restrict talking about something that is illegal. What we are trying to ascertain in this debate is if it is illegal in the first place.

I have already told that this scenario assumes that you purchased Mac and are therefore having a license to use OS X. In simpler terms, it is like I purchase a car by Maruti and Maruti gave me petrol of Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited. Can Maruti stop me if I take out the petrol from the car and put in the scooter instead!

I didnot exactly purchase the petrol it came included with the car. Just like OS X comes with the Mac. You do not exactly purchase OS X
 
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ray|raven

Think Zen.
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

@ grudge, I am not saying that Apple restricts you now, I am saying what if it does so in the future.

I'd love to see how many users would be left if apple says only apps made by apple can be used on Macs. :p

@grudge
How abt shiftin this into another thread?
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

@kumarmohit: you got it all wrong buddy...

I just said that the issue is yet to be challenged before law.
There is no reason why it can't be held illegal.

We just need to see how the First Apple Inc. vs Hackintosh User(who has bought a legal copy of OSX) goes. Because only piracy is defined in the various cases we have seen so far. Not licences that restrict the usage of "digital commodity".

Till then, we are at Raaabo and FatBeing's discreation.

I'd love to see how many users would be left if apple says only apps made by apple can be used on Macs. :p

@grudge
How abt shiftin this into another thread?
nah... it looks realistic in this thread.
this discussion is more related to apple inc than all those questions on how to use xyz or where abc can be bought. Its a legal issue that attracts many heads.
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

@kumarmohit: you got it all wrong buddy...

I just said that the issue is yet to be challenged before law.
There is no reason why it can't be held illegal.

I hate to reexplain so excuse the copy paste:

Exactly and as of now, there is no legal precedent which makes it possible for Apple to put this restriction.

Now, the basic principle of the common law (which is applicable in India) is that unless something is explicitly stated by the law as illegal or in any way contrary to the law, it is considered to be in harmony with the law and thus allowed.

Since there is no such precedent or legislation which says that Apple limiting people to its hardware is allowed and installation of OSX on non Apple hardware is a breach of copyright. (Please read the Sony music CD example I gave in the first post) installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is not a crime. Hence the usage of term " installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is illegal" is incorrect.

Till then, we are at Raaabo and FatBeing's discreation.


.

I guess that would be a great idea.
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I hate to reexplain so excuse the copy paste:

Exactly and as of now, there is no legal precedent which makes it possible for Apple to put this restriction.

Now, the basic principle of the common law (which is applicable in India) is that unless something is explicitly stated by the law as illegal or in any way contrary to the law, it is considered to be in harmony with the law and thus allowed.

Since there is no such precedent or legislation which says that Apple limiting people to its hardware is allowed and installation of OSX on non Apple hardware is a breach of copyright. (Please read the Sony music CD example I gave in the first post) installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is not a crime. Hence the usage of term " installation of OS X on non Apple hardware is illegal" is incorrect.
you didn't read my next few lines did you ?
even I stated that only piracy is defined as Illegal by Indian Law.
such restriction of usage is not.
How many offices in India use avast home edition ? Quite a few do.
Have they ever been sued ?
 

narangz

Web developer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Offtopic:
^^ In shameful misery? Did you yourself write that?
 
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

I didnot exactly purchase the petrol it came included with the car. Just like OS X comes with the Mac. You do not exactly purchase OS X
you do purchase OSX. If you are switching from Tiger to Leopard that is.

Offtopic:
^^ In shameful misery? Did you yourself write that?
there is a reason for it.
I am ashamed and miserable because...
Personal Reasons I don't want to reveal.
 
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narangz

Web developer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Errrr... No idea about Mac but we do purchase Windows license along with laptops/desktops. We pay for the license which is included in the computer price.

@MHG- Ok buddy.
 
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kumarmohit

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

you didn't read my next few lines did you ?
even I stated that only piracy is defined as Illegal by Indian Law.
such restriction of usage is not.
How many offices in India use avast home edition ? Quite a few do.
Have they ever been sued ?

What I am saying is that since the restriction is not defined by law, the basic principles of law say that we are allowed to do it. Law defines what is wrong, everything it does not say is wrong is inherently not legally wrong.
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

Thanks for that! I'm sure it will be helpful to someone. :)

@kumarmohit,
I tend to agree with you. However, I have a few points here:
1. Like Preshit said, no one would ever want to uninstall Mac OS X from their Mac and install in on their PC. It just makes no sense;
2. Even if you buy a Mac or Mac OS X, you cannot use the included disk to install it on a PC. You'll need to wade into murky waters for that, so I'm not sure how it could be considered legal;
3. Violation of the EULA is also a serious matter. Sure, it's not a crime, but it isn't the right thing to do either; and
4. It makes no sense to try installing Mac OS X onto a PC anyway. Mac OS X and Macs are designed to work best with each other and neither can be fully appreciated without the other. If you spend the time and effort into getting Mac OS X installed on a PC and then in maintaining it, you've already defeated the whole purpose of using Mac OS X. You're not supposed to have to go to all that trouble to use it. Ask ring_wraith, he has first hand experience.
 

yash

I draw every day
Re: The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

damn! why does all the awesome discussion happen when I'm sleeping?!!!
well anyways, I'm glad to know I can install my favourite OS on any system I use.
 
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