Windows is !easy, Linux is !hard

[drgrudge]

@Ashwin
I'm sure you will be able to install Linux. Believe me, its not tough. Most people vouch for command line just coz they are seasoned users. For all config tasks you haf GUI replacements.

Hmm...the command lines stuffs scares me and maybe other first time users too. I'll try out Linux for sure again, sometimes next week.

Since you use your old computer only for downloading purpose I suggest you make it a headless computer (without a monitor/keyboard/mouse). Just install Xubuntu in that (even 7.04 would do, rather I'd recommend this version only!), and control this system via VNC or similar software thru your Mac. Just power it up and forget it! Do all admin tasks via Remote connection from your Mac

No. My Mac runs almost 24/7. Net connection is in Mac not PC. Both in different rooms.

But this remote desktop is tempting! If all goes right, then I might switch the net connection to PC and do the stuffs from Mac. Should be interesting if it goes right. I'll start a thread in OSS section soon. nOOb nation.

 

[gary4gar]

Arey what is the point of such threads..?? Let everyone use the OS they are comfortable with.. Why are u all trying to convert others..??
Like I use XP for gaming, Vista/Gutsy for General/TP use and OS X for tp..

out of three at least one is pirated for sure, maybe windows also

Hmm...the command lines stuffs scare me and maybe other users too. I'll try out Linux for sure again, sometimes next week.



No. My Mac runs almost 24/7. Net connection is in Mac not PC. Both in different rooms.

But this remote desktop is tempting! If all goes right, then I might switch the net connection to PC and do the stuffs from Mac. Should be interesting if it goes right. I'll start a thread in OSS section soon. nOOb nation.

you might be interested in making you pc as seedbox
How to build a low cost Linux Home Server

its for Kubuntu but you can also use ubuntu as well
best thing is format your HDD & create one large home partion

get started now

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

1. If you consider a average user with Little knowledge of Comps and which are used to Windows and generally have a slow or No internet connection then there is no competition for Windows.

Agreed.Even Linux has no solution for stupidity.

Reasons being it has inbuilt support for most popular formats. [MP3 License issues and blabla but what end user needs is that file to run without any hassles. Still MP* is very very popular format. Other are catching up but still no way near to compete as such.

You guys will never understand.Mp3 licence costs $$ and they have no money to spend on unnecessary luxuries.M$ can ship mp3 codecs cos they charge you for windows.Its all due to piracy that you don't see the difference.

2. Installing softwares on a comp which has no internet connection is a nightmare for a average guy. For Windows thats not exactly a big prob.

Cos magazines like digit are kind enough to provide you with all the necessary and a lot unnecessary softwares every month.But I agree linux package management requires more polishing.

4. In case of no out of the box support for hardware that guy is in a whole lot of pain. It takes hell lot of probs to configure it. I used Linux for 3-4 years and not even once succeded in making a hardware work which wasnt supppported out of the box. [ I am no geek just a average user]

hard to believe.i am just 6-8 months old to linux and still can get all my hardware work in it(community helps a lot).

5. People who use Linux are generally ones who are

a. on a low end PC where Windows seem to crawl.
b. What to try out the new OS.
c. Knowledge junkies.

This is interesting.heh.

a.I have a c2d,19'lcd and by no means a low end crawling system.
b.That I call eagerness to do something new,its against newton's laws but we are human beings not some physical objects.
c.Agreed.All I want is more knowledge.I can't tell you how much I want to learn but so less time.

No one tries linux to get something special done which cant be done on Windows. [Except for Programming and Database thing again which is a part geeks are more interested in and not average users.]

I am beginning to see what you mean by normal users---the stupid idiots who have baught a high end PC to watch movies,music and play games which could have been done better by a tv+dvd player+console and even at lesser prices.They don't want to know how\why things work but it should work.

As far as dependancy issues are concerned please dont even compete with .rpm to .exe format. .deb is a good one I barely had any issues with them. [I used Debian ETCH earlier] but a bnig SORRY for RPM. That package management is improving but its still as good a junk in most cases. Dowloading and installing a .deb is 1000% easier than a .rpm. As far as windows is concerned I NEVER had any DEPENDANCY issues. NEVER.

agreed partially.You know I recently downloaded a software source code to compile it on my own,it was just 350kb something while the windows exe file was about 6mb something.I hope you understand what I am trying to tell you,

Only thing Windows needs updated is DirectX and .Net

read gary's comment above.

Both are available as a single file download and one click install.

all thanks to winrar/winzip.heh.

 

[drgrudge]

Like I use XP for gaming, Vista/Gutsy for General/TP use and OS X for tp..

OS X for Time Pass? :O Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?

The UI is super cool. And I should tell you that it's damn productive. Tried (or atleast seen) Expose? I'm so in love with Mac that most of my future computers is going to be a Mac.


gary4gar -
That's what I planned earlier with my PC+Mac, but I lost patience little too soon. Hoping to set up a home server successfully.

 

[gary4gar]

gary4gar -
That's what I planned earlier with my PC+Mac, but I lost patience little too soon. Hoping to set up a home server successfully.

thats because of your moody hardware, thats needs to listen to foobar songs before you can use internet, don't blam linux or yourself for it

 

[FilledVoid]

Im definitely no Mac user . I haven't had the luck to try it out other than helping some random person for Outlook.

OS X for Time Pass? :O Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?

Right click? Ok that was a stupid joke. None the less I know a few people who use Macs and definitely most of them are very productive with their machine. One is an artist/writer , other person running a Press etc. I would love to try a Mac But I think the cost is kind of prohibiting me to jump in

I believe someone ran Ubuntu on a Mac in this forum before. I think the persons name was Gnurag , I might be wrong so this so don't quote me on it .

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

^^anybody can run ubuntu on any x86 or x64 machine.

 

[iMav]

Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?

cut a bloody file

 

[gary4gar]

what this comment is suppose to mean

 

[iMav]

unfortunately finder does not allow u to cut a file/folder and paste in another drive

right click->cut ....... right click-> paste - not there in os x

 

[Pathik]

OS X for Time Pass? :O Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?

The UI is super cool. And I should tell you that it's damn productive. Tried (or atleast seen)

That is the point.. The UI is so cool that i just keep seeing the UI wen i log in to OS X..
And whatever i can do in OS X, I can do better in XP/Gutsy/Vista..

 

[mediator]

What do people expect after installing OS? It should work right away. What's the point if a .mp3 file is not playing? It's not Ubuntu's fault that it's not playing but how are the commom people supposed to know?

@Grudgy : Don't mind, but u talk like one of the MVPs here.
Shud I ask in similar tone that people expect the zip,rar,office,security systems to be deployed out of box? What about ogg/ogm files, photoshop alternative and readin linux partitions => out-of-box?

AFAIK, even in OSX u don't have office works out-of-box do u? But in *nix u have! I'm sure if u can spend extravagantly on OSX , then a moderate fee for a paid linux distro, which comes with all the goodies and proprietary stuff 'out-of-box' that u do not expect in OSX or windows which needs extra $$$, won't dent ur pocket.

Either u can be patient and Njoy the freely available stuff and customize it accordingly or pay a little comparatively if u don't want to do any homework. I guess u do far more homework on windows than on any OS!!

Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?

Compiling the kernel n whole OSX? I dunno if u can do that!

 

[gxsaurav]

Ah! I just had lunch....went to lucknow mahotsav today....

One long post coming up , need to freshen up my mind

 

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ You don't even need to pay that "modest" fee! Linux Mint, Ubuntu Ultimate etc. play almost everything out of the box!

@Ashwin
Since you haf an older PC I suggest you Install Xubuntu 7.04. Except the kernel don't update anything else from the update manager. Install it and forget it. AFAIK, you use dataone broadband thru lan. Thats very easy to setup. The only hiccup might your cdrom problem and GFX.

Regarding the command line, most users suggest commandline coz, as i said before, they are used to it. But believe me for 98% of the jobs you haf a GUI frontend. Its just that people suggesting you are more comfortable wid command line.

I don't remember who among the mac users has that kinda setup, but someone surely uses a limbless system as 24x7 download/mail server.

Ontopic: I've faced problems in installing software in windows as well as linux. I can't say that linux has the best package management or windows has the easiest installation method.

One software I use in windows requires .net 1.0 rt first then .net 1.1 and then .net 2.0 to be installed in that order. I had to download a lot for that. Yet another linux software wanted one version of library while another software wanted the same library but previous version. So both haf their share of problems.

What I say is that you can compare only the concepts across OS' but not the way of working. You can say word processor X lacks spell check while Y has it. This is a perfectly valid comparison.

But saying that software X sux coz the spell check is in Tools menu while Y rocks coz spell check is on the toolbar is completely absurd! And thats what most people here do. Windows is not Linux and Linux is not Windows!

Edit: Aah yes, thats superczar! Thanks for the link Gaurish.

 

[drgrudge]

I would love to try a Mac But I think the cost is kind of prohibiting me to jump in

I got my MBP for Rs 72k. Including 4 Gb iPod Nano ($200, dunno how much in here) and a Samsonite carry case ($40; Rs 1800 in Chennai).

It's no VFM but for the configuration I got and not to mention the *original* killer OS it didn't seem that expensive as perceived.

cut a bloody file

I must admit that in the beginning, It's irritating, but I got to it. OS X got no cut-paste. Hmm.. it's OK with me. If I'm right if you press cmd and do operations, it's equivalent to cut-paste.

That is the point.. The UI is so cool that i just keep seeing the UI wen i log in to OS X..

So true. You'll never miss your GF again.

And whatever i can do in OS X, I can do better in XP/Gutsy/Vista..

Isn't this subjective? I don't think it's OS X's limitation or lack of feature that affected your productivity. Seems you got an issue with the OS.

Shud I ask in similar tone that people expect the zip,rar,office,security systems to be deployed out of box? What about ogg/ogm files, photoshop alternative and readin linux partitions => out-of-box?

No issues with zip, rar, mp3, .doc, .xls, .ppt, .ogg/.ogm files all just after you start your new Mac. There are a few PhotoShop alternatives/Image Editors but you need to download them (OSS or Freewares). Does the 700 MB Ubuntu come with all these apps? (Asking out of curiosity).
Security systems? What do you mean? I have no condoms with XP, why would I have something installed on a Mac?

AFAIK, even in OSX u don't have office works out-of-box do u? But in *nix u have! I'm sure if u can spend extravagantly on OSX , then a moderate fee for a paid linux distro, which comes with all the goodies and proprietary stuff 'out-of-box' that u do not expect in OSX or windows which needs extra $$$, won't dent ur pocket.

I got both MS Office 2004 as well as iWorks installed. Both not a freeware. But within the 30 days you can either switch to NeoOffice (Freeware) or Open Office (OSS). Also even in the Mac thread and some other thread I've posted I don't care for Office suites right now. Maybe I would want to open .doc, but you got many OSS/Freeware Mac softwares.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

good to see that this thread is heating up. cyrus, you are missing all the action
anyway, ontopic: ffrom what many people say about linux, about each distro being different and all that, I say only this: why the **** are you too dumb then to be able to choose what you want?

and warning for all would be linux users: linux is ment for those who know what a computer is, and who know some serious stuff about it. This even a standard 13 year old knows in these times, but if you are not in the catogary, I beg you to shy away from linux.

Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain.

if you are not in the above catogary, go ahed and use some other OS. Have no regrets.

 

[Tech_Wiz]

Desktop High End Systems are mainly used for gaming only. No one is stupid to spend so much $$ just to use Office applications and Internet. If you use high end systems for Graphics / Video Edits then windows has more sofisticated softwares [Y they cost $$ but they are better]
If you are trying to say that people who invest in High End PCs for Entertainment and Gaming then you must understand its upto ones choice.

I wont call any one "idiot" for having a high end PC for gaming. PC gaming helds its own. If Console gaming is good but does a console allows you to run Movie DVDs? Plug it to latest speaker systems? Capture TV Shows / Video Edits? PC has multiple advantages. [How they are being used is upto the user]

I still say average user cant get a unsupported hardware to work on linux.

The reasons I mentioned for people who use Linux. Read the Line. "GENERALLY" & not always.

Stability is a old issue which died with XP SP2. I crashed more on Linux 7.04 trying to start my cam than all Windows events of crashes since I bought it.

When I tried to Install Debian Etch on my new system it crashed my HDD twice. I lost all ****ing data. Its not that I never installed Linux before and made some **** with partitioning. When it comes to unsuported hardware Linux is CRP. In worst case is gfx card is not supported then the dreaded No screens found error. Then tell me how "easy" it is for a Average guy to install a Driver for it to get it working from command line with no internet?

I also know apt-on-cd ****. But is there a .iso for download?

Go through the steps of making a CD for apt on CD **** and compare it with Windows.

Getting hardware to work thingy: Well I got 8600 GT and even a jack ass knows that it has 3D support. No linux distro with built in driver was able to even detect it apart from 7.04 and Mandriva 08. 7.04 doesnt even let me go pass 800 x 600. and yes no 3D Desktop effects as hardware doesnt have 3D support.???

Then go to nVidia site for drivers with a big **** manual for nVidia Way of Install also if this is not enough then there is also THe "Distro" way of installing it. All i need on Windows is double click the setup. NO purge **** for old drivers is needed as it replaces them all together. No kernel compile or Kernel Modules stuff needed.

Defrag probs is no longer as grave when NTFS came.

Offcourse more malware for Windows. Its most used system. If Linux had a 80% + Share in Desktops then I bet it had the same Fate.

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

There are a few PhotoShop alternatives/Image Editors but you need to download them (OSS or Freewares). Does the 700 MB Ubuntu come with all these apps? (Asking out of curiosity).

yep a standard 700mb gutsy gibbon comes with-F-spot photo manager,gthumb image viewer,Xsane image scanner,and of course the all powerful gimp.

 

[infra_red_dude]

Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain.

Aah haa... I'd like to correct this sentence!

GNU/Linux is not for those who want it to be "like" Windows[period]

I know many people with a "fully" functional brain and also many fools who use Linux!

 

[iMav]

Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain.

if you are not in the above catogary, go ahed and use some other OS. Have no regrets.

rant blah blah rant windows users know sh1t abt comps they are average and know nothing abt it lin users made windows the most widely used OS; lin users made ps; lin users made office; lin users made corel; lin users made nvidia cards; lin users made intel chips ... lin users made eveyrthing they are very smart ok metal we know all this something on topic