*** Science Or God? ***

Science or God?


  • Total voters
    517

mediator

Technomancer
rhitwick said:
But in every books (history or literature), places( countries, states, districts, rooms, foto frames) we c gandhi being painted or sculptured alike. U know the reson?? Because, once upon a time he was alive.
Isn't that the same I'm talking of? :oops:

rhitwick said:
Wow!!! the great poster on behalf of theism is a self claimed atheist, even ur gr8 foe karnivore was not able to discover it.
Say whatever you want. Being atheist doesn't mean u stop questioning & then surrender yourself completely to the emotional likes & dislikes of atheists. The questions I asked are asked by the scientists too. Does your logic tell you that all of them become theists automatically then?

rhitwick said:
I'm a bit confused, I thought u r pressuring on the bolded part, hence comes the philosophical part. Again I'm lost, plz explain what is philosophical in that part of ur post.

awwww.......now u r kidding with me, u've pretty much understood what I wanted to tell.

are.......jah....
why everything have to be philosophical?? Some are bold truth also. Accept it.

we, who r not scientists are not having minute details of everythig, so, sorry we wont be able to help u in that, but if want to know about something we can happily refer u links for better explaination.

Oh yeah I've read till 18 pages{from first page to continuous 18 and then 21 to till now) of this thread and already posted a long time ago; urs and karnis post r most knowledgeable, at least u guys know what u r saying.
I surrender buddy! Sorry for interrupting, please discuss with @keshavasiva for I'm old n feeble now, n yes u can say I'm losing my senses if it makes u happy. :D
 

Faun

Wahahaha~!
Staff member
I can see some gushing of youth-hood :p

People are aggressive for either they still got that little less control over them or they are trying to force some thing on others out of I_have_seen_it_all_kiddo attitude. *s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/81.png
 

keshavasiva

Banned
lolz *s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/70.png
U mean... my post made u laugh,..... oh man... go thru it carefully...!! '
Whats the point uve got?

Oh yeah I've read till 18 pages{from first page to continuous 18 and then 21 to till now) of this thread and already posted a long time ago; urs and karnis post r most knowledgeable, at least u guys know what u r saying.

Really..! Hats Off... Say that you can only understand their posts.... but not smart enough to digest so much against your atheism.... which stands above such insane ideas!
 
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karmanya

Journeyman
yes its true but wrong place..!! he is a living entity and what he was talking about was GOd .. there no question of he being alive... he is there all the time. Can you tell me the tip of the universe??/ where it ends... Don't tell me that scientists are going to identigy it... its waste... they think they identified it but again some or the other theory comes up saying it extends 10cm more cuz of a refraction which the other one didn't observe... ain't that funy??*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif



OOps ! I missed this subconcious thing!
There is nothing like imagination for explanation or ease making.!
They are for real... That is the next thing after you understand ifrst that god exists otherwise your mind won't appreciate it .. rite... ! there are many people who think that everyone is god and light is god etc.... so first they believe that there exists some god... After we transit that phase, it makes sense, atleast for me, to talk bout it..!!
Make me clear on that part.. will ya?
What exactly do you want me to make clear?
There are no mythical people like Vishnu and Shiva. They are concepts!. Please dude, while I haven't actually read the vedas- I have read translations of the BG and have attended a lot of those religious seminars with my grandparents(ever saturday and sunday for 2 years at the essex farms) and all of them say the same thing.
 

keshavasiva

Banned
What exactly do you want me to make clear?
There are no mythical people like Vishnu and Shiva. They are concepts!. Please dude, while I haven't actually read the vedas- I have read translations of the BG and have attended a lot of those religious seminars with my grandparents(ever saturday and sunday for 2 years at the essex farms) and all of them say the same thing.

If that is the case then u attended seminars by impersonalists.!
BG condemns impersonalists for they deny the existence of a personal GOD.. This in itself is a big topic...
Its a straight away fact that GOD is person and not just a concept. BG itself says this. Hope you know this as u have read some of it!
 

rhitwick

Democracy is a myth
every time I think I won't reply ur posts, u do some blunders that I can't stop myself from posting, watever,
personal GOD
LOL!!!*s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/70.png
What is a personal GOD?? Like this is my God and that is urs. Don't u dare to touch mine or c. (Similar example of students in KG classes fighting for pencils and books:D)
Its a straight away fact that GOD is person and not just a concept. BG itself says this.
God is person means?? Which person??
Like One of ur concepts (not ur, but of many many persons that God is in everybody, everyliving or non living element), do u agree this?? (Answer in Yes or No, don't try to elaborate, only Yes or No)
Then I again quote myself,
Plz don't say u r God. If u say, from that instant u should stop going temples(God is in u right? no need to go anywhere), don't curse him on any bad happening to u like how could God did this (God is in u right?), don't thank him everytime u do some good (ufff.....how many times should I mention God is in u), while doing "namaste" do it to urself infron of a mirror (again.....God is in u). Belive me if do this ur self-confidence would touch the sky (this is d side effect if believe in urself)
 

keshavasiva

Banned
every time I think I won't reply ur posts, u do some blunders that I can't stop myself from posting, watever,

LOL!!!*s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/70.png
What is a personal GOD?? Like this is my God and that is urs. Don't u dare to touch mine or c. (Similar example of students in KG classes fighting for pencils and books:D)

God is person means?? Which person??
Like One of ur concepts (not ur, but of many many persons that God is in everybody, everyliving or non living element), do u agree this?? (Answer in Yes or No, don't try to elaborate, only Yes or No)
Then I again quote myself,
lallybhai! y turn out a dumbo! U don't even no about the huge topics personalism and impersonalism..! Dude.. I pity u!
SO now listen... personal GOD means that GOD is a person and not just some vague junk concept and surely not light.
Hah .. there I got ya.. English tutorial!..... Now see... 'personal' has a meaning which doesn't agrees with yours in this context ...
Personal doesn't mean ...saying..."personal issues.. personal talk etc..."
Its like a person... lemme give ya example...
When you speak to someone very nastily or to say very haphazardly.. not treating him like a person.... someone comes and says... " Don't you be impersonal... treat him personally..." Like that... its no thats he is our own after that.....
I think this is enough to insert that data object into your empty vector!!!
You need not control yourself from posting.. that seems awkward... ain't it?
Just post sensible things and don't think that you know everything and atleast don't think " Ya I know he or she doesn't know anything"... remove your presumptions and you ll sound better!

Regarding that self confidence .. thingy... It sounds that you believe in god and think that he is in everyone .. inside him.... ! Am I right here .. or is it that your post just makes me feel that??? Make me clear here so that i can put forward what i feel there!
 

rhitwick

Democracy is a myth
Regarding that self confidence .. thingy... It sounds that you believe in god and think that he is in everyone .. inside him.... ! Am I right here .. or is it that your post just makes me feel that??? Make me clear here so that i can put forward what i feel there!

PLzzzzzzzzz............don't abuse me by saying I believe God.......u r rather welcome with "those" words..........but not this...........

Read my post again, In every line I mentioned u as the reason. Even the Godmen(Good ones like Jesus, Saibaba, Ramkrishna etc) and holy books tried to do that. They told God is in u, so that u start believing u, not that stone piece. I again tell u God is NOT a person its a concept which was invented and modified in time to do good of mankind. But people became so blind that they started worshipping the stone piece and forgot those ideologies.

Listen to me, the God concept will be here in world till one single person is facing short of confidence. If u r confidence enough to do any task rather asking or depending on anyone or anything, u won't need to wait for any miracle.

People worship because they r not confident enough, they don't have self belief, so they cling to someone more powerfull than him/her. They c God as a support, like "God is with me I'll surely be successful". This God concept at least helps boosting peoples morale, I don't have any problem here, if its doing good to mankind, no issues; but people become so aggressive and possessive about "their" God, they forget the main purpose of this concept i.e. "Unity" and start fight over it (eg. war between Vaishnab(followers of Vishnu) and Shakt(Followers of Shiva), Mahajan and Hinjan(Diff. b/w Buddisths), Digambar and Shetambar(Jainism), HIndu( So many Gods), Muslims(I'm less informed on this but they do have two diff. groups, maybe Sia n Sunni), Christ(Catholic Protestants(?)).

This is the main reason I HATE personification of this holy concept.

Atheism is good. Just for 3 seconds u imagine that there is no God, no religion, no Hindu-muslim-chirst, tell me what do u c? The name Rahim doesn't sound odd right? The name Tom is no more diff., Its open, no boundaries.

I've no problem with theism and religion until its doing good for mankind. But everyday there is news of "HOLY" war, "HOLY" bomb blast, "HOLY" lynching. I get so sick and so angry, I feel about shouting, "U fool the reason u r fighting, killing urselves r baseless, there is no such person called "XYZ" God". But I can't, they all will think I'm mad, and some possessive people like u( U were when u started posting in this forum, don't disagree, now u r calming down and getting the points) will kill me. And I'm too coward to be a martyr.
 
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keshavasiva

Banned
PLzzzzzzzzz............don't abuse me by saying I believe God.......u r rather welcome with "those" words..........but not this...........

Read my post again, In every line I mentioned u as the reason. Even the Godmen(Good ones like Jesus, Saibaba, Ramkrishna etc) and holy books tried to do that. They told God is in u, so that u start believing u, not that stone piece. I again tell u God is NOT a person its a concept which was invented and modified in time to do good of mankind. But people became so blind that they started worshipping the stone piece and forgot those ideologies.
Listen to me, the God concept will be here in world till one single person is facing short of confidence. If u r confidence enough to do any task rather asking or depending on anyone or anything, u won't need to wait for any miracle.
People worship because they r not confident enough, they don't have self belief, so they cling to someone more powerfull than him/her. They c God as a support, like "God is with me I'll surely be successful". This God concept at least helps boosting peoples morale, I don't have any problem here, if its doing good to mankind, no issues; but people become so aggressive and possessive about "their" God, they forget the main purpose of this concept i.e. "Unity" and start fight over it (eg. war between Vaishnab(followers of Vishnu) and Shakt(Followers of Shiva), Mahajan and Hinjan(Diff. b/w Buddisths), Digambar and Shetambar(Jainism), HIndu( So many Gods), Muslims(I'm less informed on this but they do have two diff. groups, maybe Sia n Sunni), Christ(Catholic Protestants(?)).
This is the main reason I HATE personification of this holy concept.
Atheism is good. Just for 3 seconds u imagine that there is no God, no religion, no Hindu-muslim-chirst, tell me what do u c? The name Rahim doesn't sound odd right? The name Tom is no more diff., Its open, no boundaries.
I've no problem with theism and religion until its doing good for mankind. But everyday there is news of "HOLY" war, "HOLY" bomb blast, "HOLY" lynching. I get so sick and so angry, I feel about shouting, "U fool the reason u r fighting, killing urselves r baseless, there is no such person called "XYZ" God". But I can't, they all will think I'm mad, and some possessive people like u( U were when u started posting in this forum, don't disagree, now u r calming down and getting the points) will kill me. And I'm too coward to be a martyr.
U nEEDn't be one!!

I just didn't say that.. Your posts made me think like that...thats it
Now look...dude...!! I thot that you might be having such ideas or opinions or notions..

I am talking here pure knowledge....
I have the basis when I say GOD is personal... BG
Facts are hard to believe at first....
U r going by your own theory and perception which are correct always...atleast you should consider this when you are dealing with an important issue of your life!! rite?
U see the world .. and you develop an opinion.. thats not the fact but...
please understand that u r like a frog in the well..
GOD is the creator and he can only be one.... but with different names.! and everything through a manual book for mankind that are scriptures(any religion)
no imagination of GOD can be like this like that..... u can't even understand ur own bodily functions completely.. what will u judge god by yourself?? SO go thru the manual!
U say that u hate the personification because u see it as the basis of all the holy wars etc which is not true... Its only because of the personal motives of the particular sect
When the concept is true follow it .. u don't care whether others or using it or misusing it (nuclear tech is the best ex).

God is one.. with many names and forms .. but as given in scriptures but not as per notions going on in the society or the imaginations...!!
God is one.. everyone serves him and everyone wants to please him and so there is universal brotherhood.. Here i m not saying that its possible rite now and anywhere in the future.. but infering that GOD EXISTS!!!


U r soul and God as Supersoul is present within your material body.. and not 'U'.
U means soul and GOD is inside U's bodily covering!
 

rhitwick

Democracy is a myth
U r impossible.........
Every time I think u r getting to the point, u prove me wrong.

No I CAN NOT accept God as person, its a concept having some postulates.

U call me frog of well, at least I've kept my eyes open; and u r not even ready to open ur eyes, not for "three" seconds.

To u God will always be the almighty and to me God will always be a Concept, and concepts can't create universe and blah, blah, blah.

U r really impossible.
The best thing about @Mediator is, at least he uses his "brain" while reading and tries to c our points by putting himself in our shoe, u r not like him; u r stiff, arrogant( now less than previous:D) and again impossible.
 

m-jeri

Caballero de Real Madrid
i would like to say even after 26 pages of posts...u guys proved 1 thing

1.guys who believe in god..will continue to believe
2.those who don't believe...wont....

please stop it.. its a self belief concept or almighty for all...

and still those who believe are always like the greatest majority...

so...no point in continuing this thread..unless u guys wanna knock yourselfs out... :D

but some posts here are highly entertaining....

God is life...Science is for living... these 2 will never be in tandem...
 

keshavasiva

Banned
U r impossible.........
Every time I think u r getting to the point, u prove me wrong.

No I CAN NOT accept God as person, its a concept having some postulates.

U call me frog of well, at least I've kept my eyes open; and u r not even ready to open ur eyes, not for "three" seconds.

To u God will always be the almighty and to me God will always be a Concept, and concepts can't create universe and blah, blah, blah.

U r really impossible.
The best thing about @Mediator is, at least he uses his "brain" while reading and tries to c our points by putting himself in our shoe, u r not like him; u r stiff, arrogant( now less than previous:D) and again impossible.

hell ya!
Not for all the things u said.. !!tho!
Please go on with your self motivated self proclaimed self made imaginatory... theories views etc. then surely i say that u can only b a frog in the well... and wat does it matter whether u r opening your eyes or not!!! its of no use!
Just see to yourself what science has proven about the facts of life .. how logical they are... how far you can say that they are true and how can you believe that it won't be wrong in the future??
I have a basis of BG and it can never be proved wrong atleast not by morons!
I used to be a science freak always after new finding discussions etc... but man.. it blew me off... The reasons were the qs above...
So I turned to a side where I have complete logical set of answers and truths and I am here just to put them fwd...Its up to you to accept or reject or atleast to analyze with an open mind with an helicoptar view... !!!

i would like to say even after 26 pages of posts...u guys proved 1 thing

1.guys who believe in god..will continue to believe
2.those who don't believe...wont....

please stop it.. its a self belief concept or almighty for all...

and still those who believe are always like the greatest majority...

so...no point in continuing this thread..unless u guys wanna knock yourselfs out... :D

but some posts here are highly entertaining....

God is life...Science is for living... these 2 will never be in tandem...

Dude...! This is not a time pass and this is a fight club..!! Try to post or get out of this thread! Kinda Horse **** to expect a healthy discussion in a fight club and that too such a sensitive topic!! Hmmm....
We are not here to change other's minds or feelings or views....
We just put fwd the points in relation to others points supporting/opposing... so that not only the appenders but also the viewers get to know many cool points from both the sides and they decide what they choose... There is every chance that a specimen may study this thread(being confused all the time about this concept) and started strongly accepting GOD or science or anything!! We just go on whenever we find time and post whatever we know ..
Its not about knocking anyone or ourself and no way the survival of the fittest(Darwinji) which is nothing btr than dog ****
 
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m-jeri

Caballero de Real Madrid
^^^

Dude...stop crapping and start reading posts well..
If u think anyone that really wants to learn or differentiate about god exist or not exists..this will be the last place they will come..so drop the act that u r doing a favor to others...i understand the concept of a fight club very much.. only bother was a absurd topic..where no wise men ever had reached a conclusion..what the heck u suppose to do there??? u can oppose or support..for all i dont care....

god and science may be a concept or anything for u... but humans are the more real thing that u can encounter in world...that u can beleive... learn to be nice to them and u be OK in world even if u don't give a dime about god or science.

..please if u wanna drop the ****,drop it somewhere else...


and knock urself out..means have fun...which is what fight club is all about...:sigh:
 

manistar

Broken In
hey leave it guys.... we cant explain science it to these *****************(try guessing)

Never fight with pig in street... people cant find the difference
 

m-jeri

Caballero de Real Madrid
^^^
True...

Mods long time this thread should have been closed. its a very good reading material with lost of valid points..



p.s. on i believe in god. and science is for my career. :)
 

karnivore

in your face..
^^ It would be a real shame if any mod feels obliged to lock the thread. Couldn't help but notice the irony here.

Let this thread remain open. Let people express their opinion, however bizarre or disagreeable they may seem to be to one another.
 
R

RajivNairr

Guest
World without faith would be chaos....

Think about it, Im an atheist too... but how many of us here were born and raised as one... I doubt if I would come across any ...

We chose to be atheist coz that sounds sensible rather than believing in something which is not bound by reasons....

Or as this piece of dialogue goes from Mr. Anderson to Morpheus: "I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life" :p

whichever way an atheist looks at it ... have ya ever wondered how it would be if there was no faith ... if a person were to believe that he can do anything and get away with it.. and that the only thing stopping us is our conscience, morality and fear of the unknown ....

Suppose if a person was to be told that life was an accident and that there is no God and certainly no afterlife or hell or heaven.. he would have it in him to do all the crimes with no remorse or guilt... imagine how many Hitler's this world would've had to face... I personally believe that losing that fear in faith can bring out the ugliest in a man...

I personally believe the concept of God has been able to bind a mans conscience in terms of sins and fear... its good in a way but it does turn ugly when some decide to use faith as the weapon to use authority(Taleban, Sangh parivar n etc.... )...

My family believes that I am a letdown coz I don't go to temple anymore.. to be honest.. I really don't care as long as my conscience is clear...

There are lot of questions to be answered which seek logical explanations.. I don't think god explains them all... nothing/no one can change what I believe except for God himself which I believe does not exist.... Heck think about this...

5000 years back everyone believed earth was flat....
500 years back everyone believed that earth was the center of universe...
Poor Galileo Galilei was forced to drink poison by the vatican for making the later hypothesis(at that time)...

I don't know how long its gonna take before we realize that we fought all these wars in name of faith which never existed in the first place... OR to be honest I don't even know if we are going to exist till the day we are going to realize it ....

All I wanna say is believe in what you believe in... live and let live and this world would be a better place for all of us.....
 

mediator

Technomancer
rajiv said:
5000 years back everyone believed earth was flat....
Not everyone! I don't know if astrology works or not, but considering the past of both i.e INDIAN astrology n astronomy, I think a lot is needed to be pondered upon.
Units
 

karnivore

in your face..
Don’t want to nitpick or start another war, but some of the “facts” mentioned at veda.wikidot.com are somewhat misleading. I can’t point to all the WRONGs there, but some, which I know for sure, are as below:

World’s Oldest Civilization: It is very difficult to say which is the OLDEST civilization. For example, the Sumer Civilization pre-dates Harappan civilization. But then there are other city states which also predate Sumerian cities.

Rig Veda being the oldest book: It is somewhat controversial and can’t be said with absolute certainty. The Zoroastrian sacred text Avestha, although said to be younger than Rig Veda by some 500 to 1000 years, may be a contemporary work or little older than Rig Veda. The linguistic similarity is the key to it. Rig Veda and Avestha, both have same gods, narrate some similar incidences, speak of similar rituals etc. It is extremely hard to say which preceded which. It is therefore better to speak of Rig Veda and Avestha, in the same breath, to be SOME of the oldest texts.

Sanskrit, the mother of all languages: Sanskrit may well be ONE of the oldest (Dravidian languages are another) languages, but she is herself a branch (Indo-Iranian) of Proto-Indio-European (PIE) language. The European languages (pardon my generalization) are derived from a Proto-Celtic language family, which itself is another branch of PIE. Sanskrit is far from being the Mother of ALL languages.

Nalanda University: It was a Buddhist University and not a Hindu one, the site fails to mention this important fact. Heun Tsang’s details are somewhat fabricated. The figure of 10,000 students living and studying at a time, does not confirm to the archeological studies undertaken there. It could support, only a fraction of that number.

Baudhayana’s PI: Baudhayana’s Sulbhasastra does not provide the PI value as 3.1416. There are different PI values like, 2.99, 3.00, 3.004, 3.029, 3.047, 3.088, 3.1141, 3.16049 and 3.2022, but not 3.1416.

Baudhayana’s (Pythagorus ?) Theorem: It is TRUE, that the theorem that we call Pythagorus Theorem is clearly mentioned in Baudhayana’s Sulbhasastra, but is only mentioned as a rule. He does not provide any derivation (proof) of the theorem. Neither does he mention if he has copied it from somewhere else. This “somewhere” could well be of Indian origin, or Greek origin (because the same theorem is found to exist in Greece at about a time, slightly preceding Baudhayana) or a common origin, from where both the Indian and Greek could have copied.

Measurement of Time: The equation given, makes use of data, which are spread across the Vedas, Upanishads and even Mahabharata. That is insanely crazy. The period-bias has not been considered.

Extremely Old Universe: The most conservative estimate puts the age at 13.7 billion years. 8.4 billion is certainly far away from the that date. (Ok, I am just nitpicking here)

Sorry did not read any further. There are some truths as well, the numeric system, Zero, etc.
 
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