*** Science Or God? ***

[Vyasram]

Re: ***science Or God?***

do u know the vedas? they contain very few scientific information, a fair amount of ethics, and a fair bit of stupidity in the form of imagination

i dont know any of the vedas, but i have read reviews on them, and just like any religious scripture, vedas too have a lot of stupid stuff

just google to find them

here are some examples

*www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/Scripture/Veda.html

*www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_1/rig_veda.html

*sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/vedas-and-science.html

*www.nonoscience.info/2006/04/30/critique-on-gayatri-mantra-a-scientific-view-by-dr-tanmaya/

*www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2026/stories/20040102000607800.htm - the best of the lot

in the first link , the author bashes it,

in the second one, u bash it yourself

Thousand-headed is Purusa, thousand-eyed, thousand-footed. Having covered the earth on all sides, he stood above it the width of ten fingers.

His mouth was the Brahman [caste], his arms were the Rajanaya [Ksatriya caste], his thighs the Vaisya [caste]; from his feet the Sudra [caste] was born.

is this science, and this s#17 created the caste-concept as well



I believe that itz just a hype by some religious groups, that the vedas are full of science and we believe it coz we can hold pride in it, if it is true (since the vedas originated in India). In the original vedas, fire , rain, earth are all treated as gods(panch pudas and so did the greeks) , and people call it science |||ly they treat everything stated in the vedas as science no matter how different both are . the vedas are just full of discoveries and superstitions, nothing new there . Had the vedas contained science , India should have been much developed by 0AD itself. how illogical can those ppl get . And they are trying to fool the rest of us too. as one of those authors in the links above said " vedas are just like the lord of the rings, or it is the other way around , now is Tolkien the greatest scientist"

vedas are just like greek/jewish/mayan/........../.........../......../........... myths

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

Lol, these links of urs are full of communist remarks and absurd questioning like "If knowledge about science had really existed in the Veds, why then those who had been reading, memorizing and expounding them for thousand of years could not make any scientific discovery? Why was it left to the Western scientists to make discoveries when we had knowledge with us all along ?"
Do I even need to expand this childish questioning by some ignorant person who doesn't who the Indian history of how first mughals destroyed the temples and most of the hindu belongings and then Britishers spread their **** here?


*www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_1/rig_veda.html
And then this link which an a christian treats the Gods only as a person who looks after everything. If u know about Hinduism well, then u must be knowing all the 5 elements that mark the existence of ur physical body are treated a gods. Its nuthing new. "MAtri devo bhava, pitri devo bhava, athiti devo bhava"! Since ur talking about Vedas, I hope u know their translations as well and y it is said so!


*sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/vedas-and-science.html
In this link the author is having is expert opinions with words like "According to me, Vedas for all their mysteriousness can be an interesting and mysterious read but can never substitute or find itself close to any department of Science."!



*www.nonoscience.info/2006/04/30/critique-on-gayatri-mantra-a-scientific-view-by-dr-tanmaya/
IN other links like such the author/dr tanmaya says "1) In the fan example, the noise is generated by FRICTION between two moving parts (say, the internals of the fan itself or between the blades and the air it “churns” to blow as wind). Is this TRUE with the movement of the Earth and the other heavenly bodies cited? How is the “noise” - the sound of OM - generated in this case? Against what the Earth and other heavenly bodies move, to generate the analogous frictional “noise”? If it is not by friction, what source is it from?

2) If this “noise” can be heard/realized only by Meditation, I AGREE (and believe that the Great Sage Vishvamitra would certainly have done this). But the fan example is ridiculous and the purported “scientific explanation” is baloney (I am sure, Sage Vishvamitra would NOT have come out with such an example)."

He questions y?




So @vyasram is this the sole argument of ur discussion or shud I say ur externally motivated thoughts toooo? If u cannot get the answer then u think its not scientific? Is that it? So tell me science says speed of light is c and according to science if a person moving towards south with x velocity and a person moving towards north with y velocity, to a stationary observer it becomes x+y. If thats so then y is their a different and unexplained theory like speed of light will remain C to a stationary observer similary? Tell why haven't they still figured out whats the origin of Universe? There r plenty of things like this. Theye even test medicine on animals so as to treat humans. Doesn't science already tells us that animals body composition is different from humans and among humans too we have different characteristics like immunity levels, blood cell counts etc?


Now science/basic chemistry also tells us if a substance burnt under ideal conditions its weight will alter. So y doesnt the weight of ghee alters? Is the science flawed then? Read this Post #65. U gave the links from some stupid blogs which have statements like "According to me" and their expert opinions and most probably meant to mock these Vedas. But I gave the source direct to an ayurvedic site. Lets see if u have the patience to read it.

Also please enlighten y r ur fella foreigners shocked about cowdung now when infact it has been written in vedas that it was used as counter to radioactivity?


Now shud I tell u about homeopathy toooo. Then lets have it!

There are two points of view about homeopathy that are in conflict. One viewpoint says that homeopathy should not attempt to meet the rigorous requirements of scientific medicine. It is sufficient that there have been millions of satisfied patients during the last 200 years. Science is not relevant anyway because it rejects the concept of the energy of the "vital force" which is essential to homeopathy. This vital force is identical to the concept of vitalism -- a primitive concept used to explain health and disease. And, besides, scientific medicine is unfairly prejudiced and biased against homeopathy. Dana Ullman [3], a leading spokesman for American homeopathy, says that personal experience is much more convincing than any experiments. The emphasis on experience shows that most people simply do not understand that good science, based upon experiments, is essential to the development of knowledge.

So u have it here its experiments that leads the basis of Vedas. Its no wonder that ur fella scientific americans r getting amazed when they see success homeopathy where a scientific drug fails.

Homeopathy has existed for about 200 years, yet reports in the media have suggested that homeopathy is the medicine of the future.

Now wat u'll say that media fuels absurd stuff?
Source

To save my typing please read here too

I dunno how come Indians knew about roundedness of earth, astrology, astronomy, medication, music.....etc when the life was just evolving in west? So instead of searching for the blogs and FUD against VEDAS with no proper reasoning, where people have it like "according to me" and only questioning......try to bring some links that have actually brought an end to the "observations" that mark the sole basis of Vedas.

 

[planetcall]

Re: ***science Or God?***

mediator , you were quick enough.

The links sighted by Vyasram are written by utter idiotic bastard communists. Giving all senseless thickhead opinions they try to abolish the culture which has been continuing for last several thousand of years. The sanatan religion (सनातन धर्म). You have no right to question the devine authority of veda unless you have read what it really means to millions of hindus across the world. Do some research before giving such shameful presentation of yourself. Indian religion is based on science. The fundamental principles are laid in Vedas. Read here *www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/7348/
and look around here

I dont care what ****ing idiots of west remark on our civilization. Better we take pride on our glorious past and having faith in it...lets strive for the future. The history will repeat......

 

[Vyasram]

Re: ***science Or God?***

lol, u seriously haven't understood what i was talking about,

science as stated in wikipedia

Science, in the broadest sense, refers to any system of objective knowledge. In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

learn the difference between science and a fluke(observation)

and the vedas are definitely not science, but mere observations/imaginations ( some of them may be true) bcoz they are not proved in any sense in those scriptures, nor was there any reference in it regarding the researches done in it b4 stating those obersvations.

and stuff like this are in all sorts of mythological civilizations

If knowledge about science had really existed in the Veds, why then those who had been reading, memorizing and expounding them for thousand of years could not make any scientific discovery? Why was it left to the Western scientists to make discoveries when we had knowledge with us all along ?

and that question is not a childish one, can u answer it

we were just following those imaginative stuff for years and years, and no sort of radical thinking was encouraged in those days, that's where we lost track and backed out of the tech-race... u can say that the vedas are full of science, just to satisfy yourself(if u feel good that way) and the country, but have we done anything big using the vedas in the tech-race. the vedas are just religious scriptures (just like the testaments, qorans, greek stuff), let's face it, and itz just people who are driven by blind faith who think itz science.

reg those unexplained scientific phenomenon, like i've said before, those stuff will be explained in the future, simply bcoz science doesn't explain something , doesn't mean that one must blive some imaginative concept written by someone 3000 years ago

if ppl still think that a book talking about a guy wiht thousand eyes and thousand foot high is fact, i could only pity the ppl who believe it ( itz just a fantasy book)

simply bcoz itz indian doesn't mean that it must be different from the other mythological stuff ( patriotism drives ppl in every country to think that their own civ/religion is the truth) greeks say their's is true and so do the mayans and the vedas are no differnent

 

[planetcall]

Re: ***science Or God?***

I was really pissed off by the amateur remarks of vyasram but since I just saw his picture, now I understand that he is still in his teenage. I suggest you vyasram not to indulge in amateur cacophony full of repetitions but to learn others with a positive attitude. I have no personal notions against you. wish you best of luck in your endeavours. I hope the debate ends here.

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

@Vyasram, first u say as

vedas are just like greek/jewish/mayan/........../.........../......../........... myths

And then ur saying

and the vedas are definitely not science, but mere observations/imaginations ( some of them may be true)

So shud I assume that u r not sure of wat ur talking about and unnecessarily promoting a FUD like a steroetypical ignorant communist?

Also there's a huge and clear difference between observations and imaginations dear! Ur most of the science is based on observation if u know that enough. An apple falls from tree and then gravity is obseved and later equations r formed to full fill the necessary constants and then same is done on othe planets. What do u call it?

Its quite a pity that after such a detailed post by me ur still saying vedas r imagination. Thats just full fledged FUD by someone ignorant who likes to nod to wateva theory inventors outside India say and then feels inferior of knowing his identity!

A train moves with x velocity in north and another with y in south. A passenger in either trains "observes" that the other is moving faster and then calculates that its true! Can u tell where is the imagination here?

Saliva has pain relieving elements in it. Read here. Is it a coincidence that animals relieve themselves by licking the wounded part?

Science, in the broadest sense, refers to any system of objective knowledge. In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

Alas! I still cant understand why is such contradiction of constant light speed C as I talked about? So is science flawed? learn the difference between science and a fluke(observation). I hope u understand that observation means to curiously explore and fluke means accidently. It seems ur contradicting urself everywhere!

and that question is not a childish one, can u answer it

Sorry brother if ur fella scientists r still amazed by homeopathy and can't understand that well, then who m I. Likewise can u answer properly (with science in mind) the several questions I asked in my previous post to which u replied only as "Vedas r imagination"?

we were just following those imaginative stuff for years and years, and no sort of radical thinking was encouraged in those days, that's where we lost track and backed out of the tech-race... u can say that the vedas are full of science, just to satisfy yourself(if u feel good that way) and the country, but have we done anything big using the vedas in the tech-race. the vedas are just religious scriptures (just like the testaments, qorans, greek stuff), let's face it, and itz just people who are driven by blind faith who think itz science.

Atleast that "stuff" is practically working. Its way better than learning the big bang theory and controversies about it and the speed of light staying constant in wateva condition where another law contradicts it. And how can u say no sort of radical thinking was encourage in those days? Do u remember those days? Its quite a pain for me to see an Indian person making such an absurd statements that he has to witness a puclic mockery!!

reg those unexplained scientific phenomenon, like i've said before, those stuff will be explained in the future, simply bcoz science doesn't explain something , doesn't mean that one must blive some imaginative concept written by someone 3000 years ago

Then please discuss about in future. Since u have lived 10000 years to say absurdly that "no sort of radical thinking was encouraged in those days" then I guess u can survive the future tooooo to promote ur FUD and contradictions.

simply bcoz itz indian doesn't mean that it must be different from the other mythological stuff ( patriotism drives ppl in every country to think that their own civ/religion is the truth) greeks say their's is true and so do the mayans and the vedas are no differnent

All I say is to read Vedas to prevent ur mockery and practically experience it and try it so as to contradict it then if u can!!

 

[chesss]

Re: ***science Or God?***

hmm I have a book titled 'Vedic Mathematics' . That says a lot doesn't it surely there were geniuses at that time!

But are 'vedas' scientific and logical... yeah right lol!!

"O, man, the sun who is most attractive, takes round of the earth, on his golden chariot through the sky and removes the darkness of the earth" (Yajur Ved 33/43)

As for the moon, the Veds have only to say that it runs in the space, which is full of water - a universal fact that no one can deny, hence nothing new. (Rig Ved 1/105/1)

Veds also refer to eclipses - Lunar and solar - but in most imaginative and illogocal form, leading to blind faith. The explanation of a lunar eclipse is given as a demon Rahu apturing the moon. About the solar eclipse, it is said that the demon named Swarbhanu stops the sun in his round. It was released by Attri,a rishi and his son, who rescued the sun from the demon.

Pandit Shiv Shankar Kavyatirth, a staunch Arya Samajist, has writtena book entitled 'Science in Vedas' in which he has made an attempt to prove ancient knowledge of aeronautics by quoting the following mantra:

"He looks like an aeroplane placed in the sky. He travels continuously through the three worlds earth, space and sky. Seated in his airborne vehicle, who traverses the whole universe, and who can travel high above the clouds, beholds the light spread everywhere" - 'Yajur Ved 17/59'

After giving the meaning of the verse, the author gives the following explanations in support of his contention:

"It is evident that the word aeroplane does occur in this verse. The verse also gives description of its movements as well as of its rider. Therefore it is evident that the 'rishis' were familiar with aeronautics in those days".

*www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/Scripture/Veda.html
plz someone tell me that above is incorrect, otherwise it would be just too hilarious!!

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

Hehe, First of all u gave the link from "geocities" that has already been discussed! The link further says

Conclusion.

The logical conclusion from the forgoing statements is that the Veds do not contain even elementry knowledge of Science.

The attempts that have been made to prove the existence of science in the vedas are mere superimpositions of facts and lack conviction.

Therefore, let it be known to the science crazy enthusiasts of the Veds they cannot fool all people all time.

Impressive conclusion !! It looks like a webpage/blog of a guy who can put up anything, even some fake and forged points to create FUD and hatred for Vedas! I wont be surprised if he's a Non/Anti-Hindu!

And if ur a critic then I'll be glad if u respond to the above 2 posts of mine!

 

[chesss]

Re: ***science Or God?***

Hehe, First of all u gave the link from "geocities" that has already been discussed!

oops sorry!

Its no wonder that ur fella scientific americans r getting amazed when they see success homeopathy where a scientific drug fails.

1. you may want to read about placebo effect. It is known to heal tumors
2. Even If homeopathy works (some proof is found in the future) then thats okay with science! yes some so called scientists would never accept it, but science as such will change. Thats the basis of science ' it accepts change'.

Now science/basic chemistry also tells us if a substance burnt under ideal conditions its weight will alter. So y doesnt the weight of ghee alters? Is the science flawed then?

1.Interesting.. any links ? but if the weight of ghee doesn't alters shouldn't the 'dia' burn forever!
2. science is never flawed, there may be flaws in the theory, or the theory may be incomplete. Science is never finished!!

about cowdung now when infact it has been written in vedas that it was used as counter to radioactivity?

Aprils fools joke?? anyways link?

A train moves with x velocity in north and another with y in south. A passenger in either trains "observes" that the other is moving faster and then calculates that its true! Can u tell where is the imagination here?

You bet I can
the imagination is the calculation part. You may say big deal just divide distance by time. But the concept of division is not simple nor obvious nor intuitive! Just because we have rattoed (ratta) the method of division by heart we don't see it. Without any guidance it will take imagination to discover division.

if a person moving towards south with x velocity and a person moving towards north with y velocity, to a stationary observer it becomes x+y.

x-y or y-x depending where is the observor Edit: what is 'it' here

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

1. you may want to read about placebo effect. It is known to heal tumors
2. Even If homeopathy works (some proof is found in the future) then thats okay with science! yes some so called scientists would never accept it, but science as such will change. Thats the basis of science ' it accepts change'.

I dont doubt that the science accept changes and thats what we have been seeing in science in case of universe....i.e changes, nullifying our previous knowledge! But wat about speed of light as I discussed? I hope I dont have to quote n repeat myself!

1.Interesting.. any links ? but if the weight of ghee doesn't alters shouldn't the 'dia' burn forever!
2. science is never flawed, there may be flaws in the theory, or the theory may be incomplete. Science is never finished!!

1. Read the post carefully, I assure that u'll find links pointing to reliable sites and not to some blogs or geocities promoting FUDS! As for dia, they say wt of ghee doesnt alter! Now in dia u have "2 things" with which burning takes place. OF those, its that whitish cloth like thing (can't remember its name rt now) that disappears gradually! So how can dia burn forever if the fuel itself is exhaustible?
2. I'm not questioning science! But I believe it has its limitations. Statements like "if a person moving towards south with x velocity and a person moving towards north with y velocity, to a stationary observer it becomes x+y." and "constant speed of light in the same example if x=y=C, then x+y also equal to C" ..... how can such statements be true at the same time and contradict each other also?

Aprils fools joke?? anyways link?

I hope u have come for a serious discussion!

You bet I can
the imagination is the calculation part. You may say big deal just divide distance by time. But the concept of division is not simple nor obvious nor intuitive! Just because we have rattoed (ratta) the method of division by heart we don't see it. Without any guidance it will take imagination to discover division.

x-y or y-x depending where is the observor

Thats ok....I started to think that u r trying to have a serious discussion! I forgot its April 1 !

Neways, since ur trying to joke here (I guess to remove ur boredom ?) then read this cowdung info (which is articled by Dr. T.R. Shantala Priyadarshini, BAMS, MA (Sanskrit); MS (Shalakya) teaches at the Mysore Ayurvedic Medical College and also is involved with clinical & theoretical research including spastic/mentally retarded, retinal diseases, immunity)........ It will be interesting and I assure it will remove ur boredom!

Also read this+all the sources in the link and njoy how past is being discovered by the foreigner scientists,explorers!

 

[Vyasram]

Re: ***science Or God?***

@mediator, first of all, learn the differnece between science and an observation .... a guy thousands of years ago saw the sun, he's no scientist, kepler,arya, and newton brought out scientific theories between them, they are scientists

have you even read the vedas, they are just mythological stuff full of fantasy. dont compare the science of ancient india with the vedas ( itz like comparing cv. Raman with some religious leader)

again and again you are askin abt the imagination part, i can do nothing but laugh at your thoughts to consider that some 4000 yr old scriptures talking about 1000 eyes people and gods is science ( vedas= observations+fantasy) (science = observations+experiments+applications)

@planetcall - no point arguing with vedic fanboys. any science that may be left out in the vedas too are not well defined, they too are just observations

 

[planetcall]

Re: ***science Or God?***

@planetcall - no point arguing with vedic fanboys. any science that may be left out in the vedas too are not well defined, they too are just observations

You wanted vedas to be a report for PhD....dont you ? You dont know a single bit of great Indian culture. Your vision is blocked by the hatred you have nurtured for your own roots. Science is an evolutionary process. Divine souls who created Vedas provided all the accumulated wealth of knowledge in the encrypted hymns. You need to research because it is not meant for some asshole to take the book and go through the documentation. If vedas talk about the seven colors of the sun and colors of the planets much before the time of galilleo , it shows your mental enigma to accept that. Much of our faith is symbolic. It points to a greater elevated level which only enlightened souls not like you could understand.

@mediator, first of all, learn the differnece between science and an observation .... a guy thousands of years ago saw the sun, he's no scientist, kepler,arya, and newton brought out scientific theories between them, they are scientists

How do you know that guy was not a scientist ? Observation is very much a part of science. Newton indeed was a sharp brainy but he was not enlightened by the fact that India had anti-gravity much before he found the fundamental aspects of gravity. India had seen Pluto much before Galileo ventured into constructing telescopes to see the nearby planets. Our astrology didn't develop during the era of Galileo and I hope you agree with that.

I request you to stop shitting around your illogical ideologies and better work towards your pessimistic attitude about Indian wealth of knowledge.

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

^^No point of arguing with a closed minded, ignorant, communist thinking, externally motivated teenager who feels inferior to know his identity. He hates the vedas without actually knowing that even his own parents and elders in family and in neighbourhood might be taking ayurvedic medicines like ashwagandha,brahmi,tulsi etc!!

@vyasram : I requested u to quote n reply each line of above 2 posts of mine and here u r repeating u r words and showing ur ignorance and closed minded hatred! Shud I assume that u have no further words to chat with us. IS this the only thing u have to say => "vedas are imagination" and repeat it again n again hoping that someone will come and listen to u!

I hope u listen atleast to ur the foreigners whome u like to obey so much and think differently about! I hope the world isn't a fool to be trying ayurvedic, homeopathic medicines and now doing yoga!...Grow up man! I know someday u'll talk something intelligent.

 

[chesss]

Re: ***science Or God?***

But wat about speed of light as I discussed?

Ok now I get ya. You are challenging relativity here!
1. Have you tried/know absolutely anything about this theory about light's speed being constant.
2. Even if the theory is unexplained whats wrong with that? Science is not religion , where everything just has to have an explanation, even if it means creating humans out of dust, or make the sun go around earth on horses or chariots.

Now in dia u have "2 things" with which burning takes place. OF those, its that whitish cloth like thing (can't remember its name rt now) that disappears gradually!

So if you keep adding the 'cloth' part the dis will keep burning forever.

hen read this cowdung info (which is articled by Dr. T.R. Shantala Priyadarshini, BAMS, MA (Sanskrit); MS (Shalakya) teaches at the Mysore Ayurvedic Medical College

Also read this+all the sources in the link and njoy how past is being discovered

sigh you know as well as I know that I won't believe what ayurveda for you and pandu has to say. You could be right but you need more authentic sources to back up such claims.

BUT BUT even if you are right and vedic ppl had totally kicked their counterparts arse in science and tech. How, how is this related to spirituality/god ?? In fact its a shame that after so much development and knowledge during vedic times all was lost in religion. Blame the muslims/persians, but what are we doing today? preaching sun god? making idols drink milk? Isn't that the most insulting way you could treat the vedas?? Plz don't say they found out all this by meditatio, coz if this was true then haridwar/rishikesh would have been IT hubs age ago.

I know its pointless of me to try to make you see logic. so I'll end my part here. Hopefully someone reading will take a fresh look ar logic
@Vyasram : I was so much like you .. till i stumbled upon *www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1864748,00.html . feel free to PM me

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

1. Have you tried/know absolutely anything about this theory about light's speed being constant.

IN reply, I wud like to ask have u ever tried homeopathy, avurveda etc that ur questioning its supremecy?

2. Even if the theory is unexplained whats wrong with that? Science is not religion , where everything just has to have an explanation, even if it means creating humans out of dust, or make the sun go around earth on horses or chariots.

Yea, its all right for science to have unexplained phenomas and the same can't be tolerated for ayurveda,homeopathy etc which r found to be "practically" working...Right? Neways the logic behind that cowdung is "scientifically" given and practically working and Vedas has it all written! U didn't even debate on this??...even when I gave u a reliable link!

So if you keep adding the 'cloth' part the dis will keep burning forever.

Why dont u experiment urself?

sigh you know as well as I know that I won't believe what ayurveda for you and pandu has to say. You could be right but you need more authentic sources to back up such claims.

Again ur post misses the discussion about cowdung that counters radioactivity!!

BUT BUT even if you are right and vedic ppl had totally kicked their counterparts arse in science and tech. How, how is this related to spirituality/god ?? In fact its a shame that after so much development and knowledge during vedic times all was lost in religion. Blame the muslims/persians, but what are we doing today? preaching sun god? making idols drink milk? Isn't that the most insulting way you could treat the vedas?? Plz don't say they found out all this by meditatio, coz if this was true then haridwar/rishikesh would have been IT hubs age ago.

First of all I dont believe in Gods and haven't even dragged the word "God" here. Secondly spirituailty is way different then god that u have termed it like "spirituality/god".

Now u asked for Sun god. It wud have been better if u had googled first coz then it leaves no difference between u and beloved teenager friend here! So read on and google for more!

Sun-Salutation has been described as one of the most important asana in the daily morning Yogic regimen.For people with limited time, the Sun Salutation is excellent because it stretches and strengthens all the major muscle groups in the body and exercises the respiratory system.

Sun has been described as the source of energy for all living beings. It is a well known scientific fact that the morning sun rays have a curative effect on the human body.

Source

And I most definitely agree that making idols drink milk is most insulting to Hinduism and so r those corrupt pandits who dont have indepth knowledge and r there for only money!!

And about Pandu, I told u to read the posts carefully, but I guess ur still imagining it as April 1? So read em carefully and u'll find many more links pointing to reliable sites!!

I know its pointless of me to try to make you see logic. so I'll end my part here. Hopefully someone reading will take a fresh look ar logic

I thought the teenager had a back up support, but it seems he had been betrayed, and as for the "logic" of surya namaskar (preaching sun god...anyone?) and cow dung has been given which I guess has been purposefully and deliberately not been discussed. How sad!

 

[Aberforth]

Re: ***science Or God?***

@mediator, first of all, learn the differnece between science and an observation .... a guy thousands of years ago saw the sun, he's no scientist, kepler,arya, and newton brought out scientific theories between them, they are scientists

have you even read the vedas, they are just mythological stuff full of fantasy. dont compare the science of ancient india with the vedas ( itz like comparing cv. Raman with some religious leader)

Vedas are not scientific treatise but throwing away their valid theories is pretty ignorant, like the proverbial baby with the bathwater. The researches done by Aryabhata and other mathematicians during ancient Indian times were very close to the accurate ones found today using sophisticated tools. And talking of scientists, those people were as much scientists as Newton, Galileo or any modern ones. If you have idea about the scientific method of observation-hypothesis-theory-research then you would know that.

And even modern scientific observations are not perfect, twenty years from now we might have a new theory which discards the old ones, that wouldn't mean the old scientists weren't scientists. Science is a continuous quest for knowledge, something which does not fit can be discarded unlike religious dogmas.

I agree with your last part, just because the figures were accurate does not mean the mythologies were exact unless they too have been proven. Kind of logic goes like

Mumbai is a city
Toronto is a city
So Toronto is Mumbai.

For stating the obvious using one correct figure or fact to justify the whole as absolute follows this logical fallacy.

 

[Yamaraj]

Re: ***science Or God?***

I'm extremely sorry for not being able to participate in this ongoing debate due to some health reasons, but I'll try whenever possible.

@Vyasram,
I do not have to repeat what Aberforth has said about the Vedas. But I would like to add that if you're trying to compare Vedas with "sacred texts" of other religions, you're clearly misguided. Vedas are a collection of knowledge, both scientific and otherwise - compiled over an extented period of antient times, not by any one person and not bound to the rules of any one belief or philosophy.

To cite an example, here's the Creation Hymn from the Rg Veda.

There was neither non-existence nor existence then; there was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond. What stirred? Where? In whose protection? Was there water, bottomlessly deep?

There was neither death nor immortality then. There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day. That one breathed, windless, by its own impulse. Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning; with no distinguishing sign, all this was water. The life force that was covered with emptiness, that one arose through the power of heat.

Desire came upon that one in the beginning; that was the first seed of mind. Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom found the bond of existence in non-existence.

Their cord was extended across. Was there below? Was there above? There were seed-placers; there were powers. There was impulse beneath; there was giving-forth above.

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it? Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation? The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe. Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whence this creation has arisen—perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not—the one who looks down on it, in the highest heaven, only he knows—or perhaps he does not know.

I expect you to read and understand it fully before you make another post of yours. If this hymn was written by a "blind religious fanatic" without any passion for logic and reason, I don't know of anything else this ancient and this close to the truth of human endeavour written or said in the whole of known human history.

It should be noted that the cause of downfall of Indian philosophy and science are not Vedas/Puranas/Upnishads or the great ancient scholars - but the superstitious people whose faith in Astrology was stronger than in Astronomy. It's because of the lazy who never got to the core, but fell for the shell in stead. It's because they never deserved the divine poetry.

Even today, faith in science is as strong, if not stronger, as it was in religions in old times. And just as only a few could read between the lines then, only a few enlightened understand the similarities and differences between the science and religions - and the faith involved, of course!

 

[planetcall]

Re: ***science Or God?***

मित्रों,

आर्यावर्त की प्राचीन सभ्यता समस्त विश्व की धरोहर है । आर्यों का धर्म सकल विश्व का सनातन धर्म है । कृण्वन्तु विश्वमार्यम् के संदेश के साथ यह धर्म समस्त विश्व मे मान्य था । आर्य लोग अति विकसीत विज्ञान के प्रणेता थे । अपने समस्त विज्ञान के भण्डार को वेदों मे संचित किया एवं ग्राह्य एवं सरल बनाने हेतु धर्म मे विज्ञान का कोटी कोटी समावेश किया । हिन्दु धर्म पुर्णतया विज्ञान पर आधारित है परन्तु लोकाचार मे लोग धर्म मे निहित विज्ञान को नहीं समझते हुए कल्पना को धर्म का आधार समझते हैं । जिस परब्रम्ह की व्याख्या की गई वह कालान्तर मे गौण हो गया एवं प्रकृति की जिन शक्तियों को विभीन्न नामों से प्रणम्य माना गया वे प्रमुख हो गए । अशिक्षा के चलते हमारे धर्म मे भी जड़ता आ गई जो नए विचारों के सृजन मे बाधक होती है एवं कपोल कल्पना, अंधविश्वास एवं व्याभिचार के अभ्युदय की कारक होती है ।
वेद एवं इसमें निहित विज्ञान का आधार आर्यों की वैज्ञानीक धर्माधारित परम्परा ही थी । आर्य विज्ञान के जो नमुने अभी शेष बचे हैं वे हमें उस काल का किंचित अवलोकन कराते हैं । आर्य विज्ञान पर विश्व के अग्रणी देशों मे शोध कार्य चल रहे हैं । प्राण चिकित्सा एवं योग से सभी भलीभांती परिचीत हैं । यह सभी वेदों मे संचीत है । आशा करता हूं हमारे डीजीट फोरम के बंधु अपनी सभ्यता को समझेंगे एवं इसका आदर करते हूए हिन्दु धर्म मे फैले आडम्बर को दूर करने का प्रयास करेंगे ।
धन्यवाद

आपका अपना
प्लैनेटकॉल

 

[thunderbird.117]

Re: ***science Or God?***

मित्रों,

आर्यावर्त की प्राचीन सभ्यता समस्त विश्व की धरोहर है । आर्यों का धर्म सकल विश्व का सनातन धर्म है । कृण्वन्तु विश्वमार्यम् के संदेश के साथ यह धर्म समस्त विश्व मे मान्य था । आर्य लोग अति विकसीत विज्ञान के प्रणेता थे । अपने समस्त विज्ञान के भण्डार को वेदों मे संचित किया एवं ग्राह्य एवं सरल बनाने हेतु धर्म मे विज्ञान का कोटी कोटी समावेश किया । हिन्दु धर्म पुर्णतया विज्ञान पर आधारित है परन्तु लोकाचार मे लोग धर्म मे निहित विज्ञान को नहीं समझते हुए कल्पना को धर्म का आधार समझते हैं । जिस परब्रम्ह की व्याख्या की गई वह कालान्तर मे गौण हो गया एवं प्रकृति की जिन शक्तियों को विभीन्न नामों से प्रणम्य माना गया वे प्रमुख हो गए । अशिक्षा के चलते हमारे धर्म मे भी जड़ता आ गई जो नए विचारों के सृजन मे बाधक होती है एवं कपोल कल्पना, अंधविश्वास एवं व्याभिचार के अभ्युदय की कारक होती है ।
वेद एवं इसमें निहित विज्ञान का आधार आर्यों की वैज्ञानीक धर्माधारित परम्परा ही थी । आर्य विज्ञान के जो नमुने अभी शेष बचे हैं वे हमें उस काल का किंचित अवलोकन कराते हैं । आर्य विज्ञान पर विश्व के अग्रणी देशों मे शोध कार्य चल रहे हैं । प्राण चिकित्सा एवं योग से सभी भलीभांती परिचीत हैं । यह सभी वेदों मे संचीत है । आशा करता हूं हमारे डीजीट फोरम के बंधु अपनी सभ्यता को समझेंगे एवं इसका आदर करते हूए हिन्दु धर्म मे फैले आडम्बर को दूर करने का प्रयास करेंगे ।
धन्यवाद

आपका अपना
प्लैनेटकॉल

English please.

 

[mediator]

Re: ***science Or God?***

^In short bhai is saying to
1. respect ur culture,
2. question it only after u have read and understood all about it and tried it (coz some people cant even understand the meaning of the words written in original text which loses its expression when translated to english)
3. Feel proud to be an Indian!!