Reasons for a Mac user to make the switch to Linux.

[FatBeing]

Re: Reasone for a Mac user to make the switch to Linux.

Thread cleaned (sort of - PM me if I've missed anything)

It's a shame that this had to be locked because a few people didn't understand the implication of a civilised debate.

Next flamer gets an IP ban; excuses like "He started it" will earn an additional 10,000 mails from a spambot of your choice.

 

[aryayush]

Thanks!
__________
So, have the Linux users got any valid points to make?

 

[mediator]

Quote and Tell which one wasn't valid!

 

[aryayush]

Well, I can only remember one point that the operating system and most of the apps are open source and that is something you guys like about Linux.
As for me, I do not have a problem with proprietary software so I don't mind the fact that I cannot modify the source code of Mac OS X.

And apart from that, no one has posted any points in favour of Linux.

 

[mediator]

Well aayush being open-source is itself a big advantage. U may google to find the differences between open and closed source softwares that are not even listed in this forum. U wanted an end-users experience and comparison. Well I stated from the start that only 3-4 people can write about it. Linux is free and that itself is a very big advantage.
Yea it doesn't have all of the required softwares in the free version. BUt u can always download the softwares and make the OS complete with required softwares. It just takes u around 2 hrs. ISn't that a negligible trade-off for price which is zero??

Also I like that some linux distros aren't bundled with all of the softwares.

Like the UBUNTU Edgy that I have installed on my laptop. Since my laptop has only 40 GB of space of which I have allocated 10 GB to linux, I prefered UBUNTU here. I installed only the minimum softwares that are needed to make me work comfortably without any problems.

Now compare it to my primary desktop OS fedora 5. I have allocated 50 GB to linux partition. Fedora is a montrously bundled distro that comes loaded in 4-5 cds. Wheneva I'm free and OS/PC is not in use I just fire the most easy way of install that is thru command line. Yes there is GUI available too for updating. But I prefer commandline coz I can use the wildcards in it. That is again another big advantage commandline has over GUI. So I just fire up yum, use wild cards and keep installing all sorta softwares available in the repositories.

So having a Linux distro with minimum softwares is also nice in some cases.

MAc may be good as u and @andy said. I don't argue that as I know nuthing about MAC. But all the way I emphasised on how commandline can be much better than GUI and how LINUX is getting extremely easy to work with.

So, since u already hijacked the session with end-users experience which only few people can discuss, then how can anyone write in favour of linux? U as a thread creator urself suppressed the Linux advantages and wanted to talk on end-users experience. HAve a full fledged debate and u'll find people talking in favour Linux.

Neways, today many people as end-users are quite happy and satisfied with latest Linux distros which are going easier and more and more user friendly with each distro released and competetition between the various Linux vendors is what alone contributing to that rising popularity,ease and user-friendliness .

 

[aryayush]

Even if I concede that the command line method might be better for doing certain tasks, how does it make Linux better than a Mac? Yes, it makes Linux better than Windows, but the Terminal on a Macintosh can do pretty much everything the Linux Terminal can, both operating systems having a similar UNIX base.
As far as the open source discussion goes - well, it has its disadvantages too. If you are not using Novel's SUSE Linux, you cannot use proprietary software on your distro. (I am not absolutely certain about this point, but I have heard that there are some major licensing issues.) Please correct me if I am wrong!

And I have used both Macintosh and Linux (albiet for a very short period), so here are some of the advantages that Macs have over Linux:
1. Very versatile method of capturing screenshots. You can capture the whole screen, just the desktop, a particular selection or any particular window.
2. Hot Corners. Just drag your mouse to the screen edges to activate useful features like Exposé (all windows, application windows, desktop), Dashboard and Screensaver. Use it once and you'll wish your screen had just one more corner.
3. Exposé (it's reason enough to make the switch to a Macintosh).
4. Brilliant UI. You just have to see the slick animations to believe it. The sliding windows, smooth scrolling, dock magnification, dashboard zooming, folding sheets, cube animated desktops, genie and scale effect of maximising/minimising windows, warp, fade, etc.
5. Just press 'Ctrl' and scroll your mouse, the whole screen zooms in. It's a very useful feature.
6. System wide dictionary and spell checking. Just press 'Command + Ctrl + D' and roll your mouse over any word on the screen to see an instant definition attached to the mouse.
7. Complete support for drag-and-drop. When you are dragging something with the mouse (and that includes files, pictures, movies and even text), you can press and button on the keyboard, use the screen corners and the item will still remain attached to the mouse. When you roll your mouse over some folder, the folder will spring open. This means you can literally anything from anywhere to any other place.
8. The ability to use two fingers for the secondary click and scrolling functions is so much simpler to use than a secondary button for right clicking and two stupid demarcated lines for scrolling (this is a laptop specific feature).

Yes, I know that some of it sounds very trivial, but when you use it on a regular basis, you will realise that it makes for a much faster and satisfactory experience. I also know that Compiz, Beryl, XGL, etc. can enable loads of graphical effects and Exposé functionality on any Linux distro but it is not something your regular user can enable. I tried to do it but it sounded very difficult. The command line method was virtually impossible for me, and the graphical method (for which I found only one tutorial) wasn't too easy either.

These are just some of the many advantages of using Apple software (and hardware). Even if you do a direct debate between Macintosh and Linux, the only advantage that Linux enjoys is that it is free (yes, it is a big advantage, no doubt), but it can never match the experience of using a Mac.

 

[subratabera]

Don't you think that Linux is emerging too fast to catch the MAC or Windows functionality (I mean GUI for everything)...As you know it is a community driven development approach, so the development can't go as smooth as Windows or MAC...Have some patience and you will find everything you are looking for on Linux also, VERY SOON...

 

[aryayush]

We will see that as it comes but we are talking about the present here. At present, it does not hold a candle to the Mac platform.
And what do you think? Will Apple's engineers sit on their asses doing nothing while Linux thrives? The Mac OS will also be kept updated and will remain the leader of the pack, as it is now. We are soon going to see Leopard which has the incredible 'Time Machine' feature. I can't wait to use it.

 

[subratabera]

You are absolutely correct. Those, who have money to spent on a good OS will always have the option to switch to MAC or Windows. But think of those people around the globe who need a good computing environment but can't spend too much for it. Linux will be a great tool for them, and certainly a viable alternative...

 

[mail2and]

MAc may be good as u and @andy said. I don't argue that as I know nuthing about MAC. But all the way I emphasised on how commandline can be much better than GUI and how LINUX is getting extremely easy to work with.

First, for the love of god, it is Mac, and not MAC. MAC is a cosmetics company.

I didn't get your point about Command line. You can do everything on a Mac using Terminal, too. What was your point?

 

[subratabera]

First, for the love of god, it is Mac, and not MAC. MAC is a cosmetics company.

Oops. You see, we know nothing about MAC, err Mac.

 

[mail2and]

Oops. You see, we know nothing about MAC, err Mac.

It's never too late to learn.

 

[subratabera]

Can you give me the list of softwares (Office, Internet, Games, Graphic etc.) that comes preinstalled with Mac (just for comparison purpose)...

 

[mail2and]

Can you give me the list of softwares (Office, Internet, Games, Graphic etc.) that comes preinstalled with Mac (just for comparison purpose)...

Office(only on PPC Macs)- AppleWorks

Internet- iChat(connects with AIM), Safari- Browser based on Konqueror

Graphics(Here comes the good part)- iMovie, iDvd, iPhoto. Movies made with iMovie have been screened at Cannes.

There are quite a lot of other software, too. If you tell me the task, I can suggest software for the same.

 

[aryayush]

I am giving you the list. Wait just a sec...

 

[mehulved]

As far as the open source discussion goes - well, it has its disadvantages too. If you are not using Novel's SUSE Linux, you cannot use proprietary software on your distro. (I am not absolutely certain about this point, but I have heard that there are some major licensing issues.) Please correct me if I am wrong!

As an end user no one can stop you from installing anything, even cracked software, too.

1. Very versatile method of capturing screenshots. You can capture the whole screen, just the desktop, a particular selection or any particular window.

Yes it's possible in Linux AFAIK. See Ksnapshot

2. Hot Corners. Just drag your mouse to the screen edges to activate useful features like Exposé (all windows, application windows, desktop), Dashboard and Screensaver. Use it once and you'll wish your screen had just one more corner.

I didn't get that

3. Exposé (it's reason enough to make the switch to a Macintosh).

No idea about what it is and how it works

4. Brilliant UI. You just have to see the slick animations to believe it. The sliding windows, smooth scrolling, dock magnification, dashboard zooming, folding sheets, cube animated desktops, genie and scale effect of maximising/minimising windows, warp, fade, etc.

With arrivals of 3D desktops this is possible in Windows and Linux too now.

5. Just press 'Ctrl' and scroll your mouse, the whole screen zooms in. It's a very useful feature.

Never seen that so no idea.

6. System wide dictionary and spell checking. Just press 'Command + Ctrl + D' and roll your mouse over any word on the screen to see an instant definition attached to the mouse.

Possible with stardict

7. Complete support for drag-and-drop. When you are dragging something with the mouse (and that includes files, pictures, movies and even text), you can press and button on the keyboard, use the screen corners and the item will still remain attached to the mouse. When you roll your mouse over some folder, the folder will spring open. This means you can literally anything from anywhere to any other place.

Don't think this is there

8. The ability to use two fingers for the secondary click and scrolling functions is so much simpler to use than a secondary button for right clicking and two stupid demarcated lines for scrolling (this is a laptop specific feature).

dunno

 

[aryayush]

MACINTOSH APPLICATIONS​

Finder: Your home on the Mac, Finder gives you lots of options for locating, displaying and organizing all your files and folders. From the power of Spotlight search technology to the flexibility of customizable item views, Mac OS X Finder truly shows your Mac at a glance.

Address Book: Stay connected to all your friends and family, easily. Mac OS X Tiger Address Book 4 works seamlessly across the entire system, offering your contacts in a Dashboard widget, Spotlight-driven Smart Groups, iChat and iCal integration as well as automatic .Mac and Bluetooth-enabled device syncing.

Automator: Automator is an innovative personal automation assistant that makes it easy to automate repetitive tasks. Automator lets you skip the complex programming and scripting that is normally required to create automations. Individual steps called actions can be assembled into a complete task by dragging actions into an Automator workflow. You can run your completed workflows repeatedly, and even share them with others.

Calculator: Calculator is more than just a number cruncher. Work mathematical miracles with this convenient tool.

Chess: You can play chess against your Mac or another person, or watch your Mac play against itself. You can choose the level of difficulty for each game, get hints from the computer, and even make moves using spoken commands.

Comic Life: Comic Life makes creating digital comics a snap. Use Comic Life to produce high quality comics for posting on the web, including in a movie or printing out for friends.

Dashboard: Check the time, watch the weather, track flights, view stock prices and find a local restaurant. Instantly. With a single click, the Dashboard zooms across your Desktop, giving you fast access to nifty widgets designed for fun as well as function. Bundled widgets are: Address Book, Business, Calculator, Calendar, Dictionary, ESPN, Flight Tracker, Google, iTunes, People, Ski Report, Stickies, Stocks, Tile Game, Translation, Unit Converter, Weather and World Clock.

Dictionary: Words at your fingertips. Nouns, verbs, synonyms; Dictionary has them all and more.

DVD Player: Use DVD Player to watch DVD movies on your computer. You can watch movies recorded on standard DVD discs or view DVD projects that are stored on your hard disk.

Font Book: Font Book makes it easy to install, preview, organize, and manage your fonts.

Front Row: Dazzle your friends with an elegant full-screen media display. Front Row transforms movie night into a blockbuster Hollywood premiere — and you can preview Hollywood blockbusters from the Apple.com QuickTime movie trailer website. Control the mood of the room with instant access to iTunes music and playlists. View slideshows from your iPhoto library, complete with transitions and music. Watch home movies, music videos, TV shows, and more. Hit play and pass the popcorn. Enjoy your music, video, photos and DVDs exactly as you wish.

GarageBand: You can use GarageBand to easily create your own original music to share with the world. You create a GarageBand music project by recording Real and Software Instruments, adding loops, arranging and mixing your project, then sending your finished project to iTunes or another iLife application.

iCal: iCal is a personal calendar application that lets you easily keep track of appointments, view multiple calendars at the same time, share your calendar information with others, and more.

iChat: iChat AV is a great way to send instant messages. You can stay in touch with people all over the world using full-screen video, audio, and text. With iChat AV you can video conference right from your desktop with up to three people, or audio conference with up to nine people. And no long-distance charges.

iDVD: When it comes time to share your music, photos, and movies with others, there's no better way to do it than with a DVD. And iDVD is the perfect way to collect all the pieces of your digital life in one place and share them with others.

Image Capture: Capture images from a camera or scanner, and then share them with your friends.

iMovie HD: iMovie has always been the best way to easily import video from your digital camcorder, edit your movie with an assortment of stunning visual and audio effects, and then share it with family and friends.

Internet Connect: Use Internet Connect to dial your ISP, establish a PPPoE connection, or connect to an AirPort network.

iPhoto: iPhoto has always been the best way to easily import photos from your digital camera, organize them for fast retrieval, and then share them with family and friends.

iSync: iSync is synchronization software that helps you manage contact and calendar information on your Mac OS computer and devices, such as an iSync-compatible Bluetooth or USB mobile phone, a Palm OS device, or an iPod.

iTunes: iTunes is software that makes it easy to play and organize music, movies, TV shows, podcasts, and more. You can take your music and video collection with you by synchronizing your iTunes library with your iPod, Apple's portable music and video player.

iWeb: iWeb is an application you can use to easily create a professional-looking website.

Mail: Use the Mail application to send and receive email messages. You can set up multiple email accounts and easily customize Mail to fit your needs.

OmniOutliner: We all have ideas knocking around in our heads. OmniOutliner is for getting those ideas out into the open where you can see them, shuffle them around, neatly present them, and share them with other people. With it, you can quickly jot down notes into a list, or you can forge monumental masses of information into shape with pixel-by-pixel precision.

Photo Booth: Take digital photos of yourself. Use them for your user account picture, iChat buddy icon, and more.

Preview: Preview lets you read PDF documents, view images, and take screenshots.

QuickTime Player: QuickTime Player is a free multimedia player. You can use it to view many kinds of files, including video, audio, still images, graphics, and virtual reality (VR) movies. QuickTime supports the most popular formats on the Internet for news, sports, education, movie trailers, and other entertainment.

Safari: Mac OS X includes Safari to make it easy for you to browse the Internet. Safari quickly and accurately displays the websites you visit, thanks to its Mac OS X underpinnings and its strict compliance to web standards. In addition, Safari's innovative features let you perform Google searches from the address bar, scan articles from several websites in one window with RSS, organize bookmarks of your favorite websites, and much more. Find out what you can do with Safari as you explore the Web.

Sherlock: Find what you're looking for in Sherlock channels. View local movie listings, get stock prices, track auction items, and more.

Stickies: Need to jot down a phone number or make a quick shopping list? Use Stickies to leave little reminders where they won't get lost: right on your computer's desktop.

System Preferences: Choose settings to customize your Mac OS X experience. It's Tiger tailored to your specific needs.

TextEdit: Write a note; write a novel; write a letter; write a webpage. View almost any text document, or create your own. TextEdit is a word processor that is both powerful and easy to use.

Other Utilities include: Activity Monitor, AirPort Admin Utility, AirPort Setup Assistant, Audio MIDI Setup, Bluetooth File Exchange, ColorSync Utility, Console, DigiColor Meter, Directory Access, Disk Utility, Grab, Grapher, Installer, Keychain Access, Migration Assistant, NetInfo Manager, Network Utility, ODBC Administrator, Printer Setup Utility, System Profiler, Terminal and VoiceOver Utility.

Also includes AppleScript Utility and Editor; and trial versions of iWork '06 (Keynote and Pages) and FileMaker Pro 8.

 

[mediator]

Even if I concede that the command line method might be better for doing certain tasks, how does it make Linux better than a Mac?

I never said it makes linux better than any other OS. U talked about commandline, had a false notion about it. So I only tried to remove that rumour people have about commandline. So some of the advantages of commandline over GUI were already elaborated by me. And believe me commandline does make ur computing much efficient in some cases reducing the number of clicks dramatically.

As far as the open source discussion goes - well, it has its disadvantages too. If you are not using Novel's SUSE Linux, you cannot use proprietary software on your distro. (I am not absolutely certain about this point, but I have heard that there are some major licensing issues.) Please correct me if I am wrong!

I used suse only a couple of times when I was a noobie to linux world. It was easy but I had suse 9.1 personal (1 Cd + no internet connection). It was ok for a laymann to work but i needed gcc and g++ too.
So i dunno much about suse and don't want to spread false notions and rumours. What ur saying may be correct for SUSE, I dunno. But there are other distros too that can act as primary desktop OS on ur PC.

And I have used both Macintosh and Linux (albiet for a very short period), so here are some of the advantages that Macs have over Linux:
1. Very versatile method of capturing screenshots. You can capture the whole screen, just the desktop, a particular selection or any particular window.
2. Hot Corners. Just drag your mouse to the screen edges to activate useful features like Exposé (all windows, application windows, desktop), Dashboard and Screensaver. Use it once and you'll wish your screen had just one more corner.
3. Exposé (it's reason enough to make the switch to a Macintosh).
4. Brilliant UI. You just have to see the slick animations to believe it. The sliding windows, smooth scrolling, dock magnification, dashboard zooming, folding sheets, cube animated desktops, genie and scale effect of maximising/minimising windows, warp, fade, etc.
5. Just press 'Ctrl' and scroll your mouse, the whole screen zooms in. It's a very useful feature.
6. System wide dictionary and spell checking. Just press 'Command + Ctrl + D' and roll your mouse over any word on the screen to see an instant definition attached to the mouse.
7. Complete support for drag-and-drop. When you are dragging something with the mouse (and that includes files, pictures, movies and even text), you can press and button on the keyboard, use the screen corners and the item will still remain attached to the mouse. When you roll your mouse over some folder, the folder will spring open. This means you can literally anything from anywhere to any other place.
8. The ability to use two fingers for the secondary click and scrolling functions is so much simpler to use than a secondary button for right clicking and two stupid demarcated lines for scrolling (this is a laptop specific feature).

Yea mac may have such advantages. But do u really use all such features? Linux also has much to offer today, but I only use the functionalities that are relevant to me.

Yes, I know that some of it sounds very trivial, but when you use it on a regular basis, you will realise that it makes for a much faster and satisfactory experience. I also know that Compiz, Beryl, XGL, etc. can enable loads of graphical effects and Exposé functionality on any Linux distro but it is not something your regular user can enable. I tried to do it but it sounded very difficult. The command line method was virtually impossible for me, and the graphical method (for which I found only one tutorial) wasn't too easy either.

Much Fancy stuff doesn't really excites me. I dunno about such features (only acquainted) and haven't enabled them on my distros (Ubuntu,fedora). May be @mehul can shed some light here.

These are just some of the many advantages of using Apple software (and hardware). Even if you do a direct debate between Macintosh and Linux, the only advantage that Linux enjoys is that it is free (yes, it is a big advantage, no doubt), but it can never match the experience of using a Mac.

May be, but as I classified users before(on basis of Software Engineering,IEEE), the classification can also be done on basis of age. Children like to play games. Does mac offer high end games? Students generally have limited pocket money, they don't like to spend extravagantly. Hence pirated windows or Linux are obvious choices for them. So mac may be easier than windows or Linux, but if the work can be done easily on both pirated windows and linux which are freely available, then I guess it wud be hard for users to make a switch and invest money to work on something easier.
I wud be glad to install Mac OS X if it can be installed on my current PC. But u already demoralised me with ur verdict.

Oops. You see, we know nothing about MAC, err Mac.

Correct! sorry @andy didn't knwo that!

I didn't get your point about Command line. You can do everything on a Mac using Terminal, too. What was your point?

I hope u got my point now! I just wanted to clear doubts people have about commandline and think its a difficult thing and GUI is always better than it !

@aryayush : U showed the packages available for Mac. I don't know if thats all Mac has, but have u ever looked at fedora and ubuntu's repositories?? I have seen them both. The number of packages available is just mind boggling. I'm sorry that I can't show u the packages as it won't fit in one screen! But if u ever install Ubuntu again, then please do take a look urself and then tell the comparison here!
Neways as I said only some of the packages are relevant for u!

 

[eddie]

2. Active Desktop Borders in KDE
3. Kompose
5. Ctrl+Alt+ {+ or -} (Plus Minus Signs)
7. KDE Drag-and-Drop

 

[aryayush]

I used suse only a couple of times when I was a noobie to linux world. It was easy but I had suse 9.1 personal (1 Cd + no internet connection). It was ok for a laymann to work but i needed gcc and g++ too.
So i dunno much about suse and don't want to spread false notions and rumours. What ur saying may be correct for SUSE, I dunno. But there are other distros too that can act as primary desktop OS on ur PC.

Uh... I think you misunderstood my statement. I said that SUSE is the better one because you can legally run proprietary software on it (again, I am not very sure about this).

Yea mac may have such advantages. But do u really use all such features? Linux also has much to offer today, but I only use the functionalities that are relevant to me.

Yes, I (and most Mac users) use the functions I listed on a regular basis. I lookup words in the Dictionary, zoom in on websites which have small images or text, capture screenshots, scroll and right click, use Exposé, etc. everyday. I did not bother listing the functions that I don't use (such as saving any text file as a PDF document).
And anyway, in a platform vs. platform debate, all the features count, not only the features specific to the poster.

Much Fancy stuff doesn't really excites me. I dunno about such features (only acquainted) and haven't enabled them on my distros (Ubuntu,fedora). May be @mehul can shed some light here.

So what? You may not want them but most people do. And if you use a Mac once, you will be bored by the bland interface of Windows and Linux. You won't be saying you don't want those features once you have witnessed them. Yes, it's possible to enable some of those effects on Linux too, but it is a very demanding procedure and most users would just end up trashing their operating system while trying to enable those effects.

May be, but as I classified users before(on basis of Software Engineering,IEEE), the classification can also be done on basis of age. Children like to play games. Does mac offer high end games?[/quote]Yes, it does. Not many, yes, but there is a quite a handy selection of games availble for the Macintosh platform.
Yes, Macs lack in the gaming department, no doubt - but Linux users aren't better off either.

@aryayush : U showed the packages available for Mac. I don't know if thats all Mac has, but have u ever looked at fedora and ubuntu's repositories?? I have seen them both. The number of packages available is just mind boggling. I'm sorry that I can't show u the packages as it won't fit in one screen!

I have a 1680x1050 resolution monitor and my list did not fit on the screen either!

But if u ever install Ubuntu again, then please do take a look urself and then tell the comparison here!

OK. I'll do that. Installing Ubuntu on Parallels using a disk image stored on the hard drive is hardly a fifteen minute job.