Nintendo vs. Sony vs, Microsoft

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heidi2521

Padawan
Justify the line in bold. Show me or give a link or proof where Nintendo said that UE4 is gonna come to Wii u.

Do you have any idea how underpowered the wii u is?

In conversation with Epic Games' Mark Rein: Unreal Engine 4 support for Oculus Rift (and everything else), and thoughts on next-gen

You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can!

Nintendo said that they are having difficulties in coping with HD Development so i imagine it wouldn't be possible for Nintendo to match the PS4 this gen.
 
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heidi2521

Padawan
Dude, just because some wii u games are very hard to complete does not make them HARDCORE.. lol
Then with your logic, this is the most hardcore game in the world..
The Worlds Hardest Game - Free Online Action Games from AddictingGames
Hardcore games are almost always targeted towards audience of age around 17+..
Not saying playing mario at your age is a wrong thing but its faaaaaaar from what hardcore is..

Hardcore games that provide a fair challenge to the player and have good gameplay backing it. Not games designed to be hard for difficulty's sake. Mario is hardcore.

@ nerevarine

He seems to have trouble differentiating between "maturity" and "hardcore". :p

Nerevarine said that Mario is not hardcore. Mario is Hardcore. It may not have maturity but it is hardcore.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
In conversation with Epic Games' Mark Rein: Unreal Engine 4 support for Oculus Rift (and everything else), and thoughts on next-gen



Nintendo said that they are having difficulties in coping with HD Development so i imagine it wouldn't be possible for Nintendo to match the PS4 this gen.

This way, its gonna end up looking like UE-3. They said devs can but devs won't supposedly. Wii u is far too underpowered for UE-4.
Leaving frostbite 3, i have doubts if wii u can run frostbite 2 in its full glory.
 
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d3p

PowerHouse
Duck Hunt on 8Bit Console is very much Hardcore Game.

*bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/14068000/ngbbs46f5f90e9e531.jpg
 
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heidi2521

Padawan
This way, its gonna end up looking like UE-3. they said devs can but devs won't supposedly. Wii u is far too underpowered for UE-4.
Leaving frostbite 3, i have doubts wii u can run frostbite 2 in its full glory.

If it can run Cryengine 3 it can run Frostbite 2 easily. Nobody is claiming that the Wii U is even remotely as powerful as the PS4. I was just pointing out that it can run UE4 which you claimed it cant.

Duck Hunt on 8Bit Console is very much Hardcore Game.

After you get across the early parts and lots of birds come out at once, yes.

PS: I hate that dog.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
If it can run Cryengine 3 it can run Frostbite 2 easily. Nobody is claiming that the Wii U is even remotely as powerful as the PS4. I was just pointing out that it can run UE4 which you claimed it cant.

I still say it can't. Epic guy said they are not locking UE-4 for wii u. That doesn't mean the console is capable of running it. You won't see UE-4 in the ps3 and 360 coz they are underpowered for it.
Same applies to wii u as its more or less in the same boat as them. Calling wii-u as next-gen also sounds vague and obtuse.

Besides, epic themselves won't be developing any ue-4 based titles for wii u.
 
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d3p

PowerHouse
Duck Hunt on 8Bit Console is very much Hardcore Game.

*bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/14068000/ngbbs46f5f90e9e531.jpg

That was Sarcastic...

Play BF3 Multiplayer with people to understand, what hardcore really means by....Play Dota 2 or Starcraft II..
 

NoasArcAngel

Wise Old Owl
*0verhyped.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/1074312-gamermacro_super.gif

These days, it’s impossible to ignore casual games. With the popularity of the Wii, and with Microsoft and Sony expanding their downloadable content offerings, casual gaming is growing into much more than just a niche market. However, this growth may come with a cost. As more money is made off casual gaming it's possible developers will begin investing a bigger percentage of their budget into their games. And this begs the question, will the growth in casual gaming be detrimental to the traditional, hardcore gamer?


A Growing Divide

Back in 1985, when the Nintendo Entertainment System was released, video games were simpler and much more accessible. Controllers had a D-pad and two buttons. Graphics were mostly limited to blocky side-scrollers and games with top down views. Press ‘A’, and you jump. Press ‘B’, and you shoot. Ask most girls in their mid twenties, and they’ll tell you they loved Super Mario Brothers 3 or Bubble Bobble. It was a simpler time, when games were primarily marketed to children, and they were easy enough that your sister could jump in for a few hours and not be intimidated.

But slowly games evolved. The Super Nintendo added ‘X’ and ‘Y’ buttons along with ‘L’ and ‘R’ buttons on the top of the controller. Pretty soon you had dual analog sticks along with your D-Pad and as many as four triggers. Games became 3D, and PC gaming took off with twitchy first person shooters and real time strategy games so complex they would take weeks to truly master. If you were a teenage boy learning and growing with each new trend and addition, you could keep up. But everyone else who just had a passing interest in video games was left behind to play their old consoles or maybe even a web based flash game.

Games are now truly marketed to a hardcore audience. Games like Grand Theft Auto and Gears of War are mature, violent, and complex. We here at G4 and other gamers like us are thrilled to have such engaging and interactive experiences, and publishers are thrilled that we are buying them by the millions.

However, recently there has been a shift in the gaming landscape. With the introduction of the Nintendo Wii in late 2006, controls on a console were simplified for the first time ever. High-end graphics were not made a priority. And suddenly, people’s grandparents were playing Wii Sports. Stories from across the country told of entire families spending their Thanksgiving eating turkey and playing the Wii together. The Wii (along with the handheld DS) sold like crazy, broadening the gaming market to groups much larger than just men under the age of 35. Game makers took notice, and this development may force them to shift their strategies in response.

Hard To Be Hardcore

The number of traditional of hardcore gamers is significant. The Playstation 2 sold over 120 million units, and both the X-Box 360 and Playstation 3 are selling rapidly in the current console war. However, while the install base of potential users is high, the development cost of games has skyrocketed. It is commonly estimated that a triple A title on either the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 costs between $15-20 million to develop. All it takes is for one game to flop and a studio can find itself in financial trouble. For example, Clover Studios, makers of Viewtiful Joe and the critically acclaimed Okami, was shut down in 2006 after its games just didn’t sell.



With games like the annual Madden sequel always amongst the best sellers, it often doesn’t make sense for big publishers who are beholden to the demands of shareholders to risk a huge amount of money on an original idea. Therefore, the hardcore gamer suffers as they are subjected to sequel after sequel of established IPs. Granted, we aren’t complaining about Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3, but good original games are what bring new players into the gaming audience. A game like Gears of War or Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune could appeal to someone who has never been that into games before, and as soon as they buy a system, it expands the market and lessens a developer’s risk.

In addition, developers must be cautious in designing their games. While gamers often want either increased realism or fantasy levels of gore and violence, opportunistic politicians and uninformed media are quick to attack them as immoral. Part of the problem is that many people over the age of 40 believe that games are for kids, while a huge number of men over the age of 18 actually play them. It creates a problem when developers can’t create the mature games that their audience desires without subjecting themselves to attack. With all of the controversy that followed the GTA: San Andreas Hot Coffee mod, and the banning of Manhunt 2 in various countries; it’s safer for developers to create simple, family friendly games and not risk a backlash.

Casual Is In

“Casual games are really, really big. You can tell just by the size of the room we're in this year. The point here is we have the opportunity to elevate video games to become a first-tier form of entertainment, like TV. We will have succeeded when 'casual games' goes away as a category and 'hardcore games' is the niche."

--PlayFirst CEO John Welch at this years Game Developer’s Conference Casual Games Summit. (Via Gamespot.com)


While casual games have had some success in the past (such as EA’s The Sims franchise), it hasn’t been until recently that they have become fully “mainstream.” The primary facilitator of this new wave of gaming is the Nintendo Wii, which, through its pack-in title Wii Sports, has made gaming accessible to young and old alike. In addition, the positive media blitz that Nintendo has received has elevated the Wii’s status as not only an excellent casual gaming device, but as the must-have toy of the past two holiday seasons. With sales outperforming those of the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3 every month since launch, the developers have taken notice of Nintendo’s little white box, and are shifting strategy to support the system. Mini game collections have been released by the boatload, leaving owners of the system who prefer more intricate games questioning if they should have purchased a 360 or PS3 instead.

However, both Sony and Microsoft have made in-roads in the casual games market. Microsoft has been touting the Xbox Live Arcade from day 1 of the 360’s launch, and a number of solid downloadable titles have been released. In addition, a key component of Microsoft’s Press Conference at the just completed GDC focused on the community developed XNA games, which are simpler games created by independent developers. Sony, on the other hand, is heavily promoting its upcoming customizable, side scrolling platformer Little Big Planet, and is developing its own downloadable content, led by Echocrome. It is clear that no one can afford to ignore casual gaming, although both Sony and Microsoft are still primarily focused on cultivating their hard-core audience.

In addition, there has been a growth in games that bridge the gap between the casual and hardcore audiences. Guitar Hero and Rock Band are instrumental in bringing these two distinct groups together. Rock Band is especially accessible, as hard and expert guitar and drums will provide a challenge to most avid gamers, while you can also usually get just about any girl at a party to pick up the mic and sing a few songs. The developers at Harmonix are very aware of the broad appeal of their game, as they have been releasing downloadable songs from bands like The Police and The Ramones that appeal to an older audience, while also unleashing the occasional chick rock track for the ladies. Another game with the potential to be appealing to all gamers is Spore. This giant upcoming game from the creators of The Sims promises immeasurable amounts of user created content along with varied gameplay that will hopefully provide something for everybody.

A Hard To The Core Industry

While the case is compelling for casual games to one day rule the gaming world, there are a few simple reasons why this may never happen. One is that casual gamers tend to buy one or two games and play them for a long time, while the core gaming audience purchases many, many more. So far, no game has managed to captivate the audience that plays The Sims with a new franchise. Also the Xbox 360 has the highest attach rate of games purchased in history, while the Nintendo has struggled to sell additional software for the Wii. So while it may seem like there is this vast untapped audience of casual gamers out there, they may be just like MMO gamers and only play one or two games.

Hardcore gamers, on the other hand, buy games. Gears of War has sold over 4.5 million copies. Super Mario Galaxy has sold over 5 Million. Call of Duty 4 has sold over 7 million copies across all platforms. Resistance: Fall of Man and Motorstorm sold over 2 million. Halo 3 is over 8 million. Smaller games like Dead Rising, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and Crackdown all broke a million. And all of this has happened while the next-gen systems are still growing their install base. While a few casual games like Mario Party, Big Brain Academy and WarioWare: Smooth Moves have broken through with excellent sales figures, they are all first party Nintendo titles. So far, 3rd party publishers have not found a way to sell or market their games to casual gamers.

Another issue is that at this current stage, many casual games just aren’t very good. While there have been numerous mini game collections released on the Wii since its launch, most of them are mediocre to bad. Just one look at the aggregate scores of Nintendo Wii games on Metacritic.com, and you will see that many developers have been looking to quickly cash in on the Wii craze. Thankfully most gamers are smart enough to do their homework on games or at least try before they buy. As time goes on, developers will figure out that if they are going to appeal to a casual market, they need to develop games that, while accessible, are just as well made and engaging as the top titles on the market today.

In the end, the hardcore audience is rabid, always seeking the next big game, while the casual audience is still finding its way. Some day, casual gamers might be clued in to the point where they are looking for the big game, but as that happens, there is also a good chance they will start looking for deeper, more challenging games (and hence become a little more ‘hardcore’).

Can We Be Friends?

In the end, it’s likely that both casual and hardcore gamers can peacefully coexist. There is still too much money to be made cranking out epic games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear for that market to be ignored. At the same time, it is possible that some developers will shift their strategy to target newer, casual markets. In the long run, the emergence of casual gamers can only be good for the gaming industry, as it will bring in more fans, more money, and more talent to create great games. Besides, wouldn’t it be great if your parents understood what you are wasting all of your time doing?

As gaming as an entertainment medium continues to grow, there may exist a future where the industry mirrors that of television and movies. Some games will be big budget summer blockbusters. Others will be indy sleeper hits. And others will fulfill the need of those who would rather just casually watch a romantic comedy.

*www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/683070/casual-vs-hardcore-games/

*www.troll.me/images/billy-mays/kaboom-all-up-in-your-face-.jpg

even nintendo is trolling

*www.gogameplay.com/gamenew/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/0/50d11475a3910_1.jpg
 
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heidi2521

Padawan
I still say it can't. Epic guy said they are not locking UE-4 for wii u. That doesn't mean the console is capable of running it. You won't see UE-4 in the ps3 and 360 coz they are underpowered for it.
Same applies to wii u as its more or less in the same boat as them. Calling wii-u as next-gen also sounds vague and obtuse.

Mark Rein: The Wii U can run UE4.

Vickybat: It can't.

"You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can!"

That clearly means that it can run on the Wii U. Or are you saying that devs will ship games that don't run on the Wii U for it.

There is nothing vague or obtuse about calling the Wii U next gen. Generations are defined by time periods. The Wii U was released in the same time period as and will compete with the upcoming western consoles.

@d3p I know that you were being sarcastic. I've played DOTA 2. I agree that it is hardcore. I gave BF3 a try. It is about as hardcore as Call of Duty(i.e. not hardcore at all).

*0verhyped.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/1074312-gamermacro_super.gif



*www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/683070/casual-vs-hardcore-games/

*www.troll.me/images/billy-mays/kaboom-all-up-in-your-face-.jpg

even nintendo is trolling

*www.gogameplay.com/gamenew/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/0/50d11475a3910_1.jpg

How does that "Kaboom in my face"?Infact, It calls SMG a hardcore game. Just because the Wii & The DS had massive casual buyers it doesn't mean that they have no hardcore games.

It would be like saying that the PS2 has no games because many people bought it because it was the cheapest DVD player for a long time.
 

NoasArcAngel

Wise Old Owl
Mark Rein: The Wii U can run UE4.

Vickybat: It can't.

"You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can!"

That clearly means that it can run on the Wii U. Or are you saying that devs will ship games that don't run on the Wii U for it.

There is nothing vague or obtuse about calling the Wii U next gen. Generations are defined by time periods. The Wii U was released in the same time period as and will compete with the upcoming western consoles.

@d3p I know that you were being sarcastic. I've played DOTA 2. I agree that it is hardcore. I gave BF3 a try. It is about as hardcore as Call of Duty(i.e. not hardcore at all).



How does that "Kaboom in my face"?Infact, It calls SMG a hardcore game. Just because the Wii & The DS had massive casual buyers it doesn't mean that they have no hardcore games.

It would be like saying that the PS2 has no games because many people bought it because it was the cheapest DVD player for a long time.

its not even the same period. wii u came out in 2012, the ps4 will come out this year later near december... so i dont see the matching timeline. Hardcore games which dont sell !

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


dude if you really think cod is not hardcore, plz come... we have a server.. lets have a 1 on 1?


so suddenly dota2 is now hardcore?

Mario is certainly hardcore. Its first few worlds are easy enough but by the time you get to world 5 in 3D and 7 in 2D, it starts to show you how difficult it can be.

The Last Story is like DOTA? :lol: . A third person action adventure JRPG is like a MOBA? :rofl:.
It is hardcore because you need to be skilled to play through it and complete it. It is not a hack and slash game by any definition. It is hardcore because you need to be skilled at the game to beat it. If you aren't fast enough and don't monitor and command your team mates carefully you die easily.

I think you are confusing 'Playstation' with 3DS.

Yawn........


I do agree that the hardcore gamer did abandon Nintendo, but I believe a number of them did it just from the simple act of growing up.

Personally, I have a lot of respect for Nintendo because they dominated my childhood before I became a Playstation Fanboy lol. From an adult perspective however, their games don’t speak to me anymore. I will use Transformers for an example. I loved Transformers growing up, and recently I tried to watch some of the old-school shows on Netflix. I just couldn’t do it, I felt like I grew out of it even though I still like Transformers to this day. I feel that way about Nintendo but I don’t take it out on them like the jaded gamers this generation. I see the company like an old friend that I haven’t seen in a long time.

- was a hardcore nintendo fan
 
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heidi2521

Padawan
its not even the same period. wii u came out in 2012, the ps4 will come out this year later near december... so i dont see the matching timeline.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


dude if you really think cod is not hardcore, plz come... we have a server.. lets have a 1 on 1?

In that case, the Xbox came out in 2005. The PS3 & Wii came out in 2006. So they are not in the same gen. PS3 & Wii are one gen ahead of Xbox.

CODBLOPSII Wii U? If you don't think Mario Kart and SMG are hardcore, lets play Rainbow Road 150cc and anything after Garden Galaxy in SMG.
 

NoasArcAngel

Wise Old Owl
In that case, the Xbox came out in 2005. The PS3 & Wii came out in 2006. So they are not in the same gen. PS3 & Wii are one gen ahead of Xbox.

CODBLOPSII Wii U? If you don't think Mario Kart and SMG are hardcore, lets play Rainbow Road 150cc and anything after Garden Galaxy in SMG.

you play granturismo, im not saying anything about mario kart. oh.. wait thats because i dont own it anymore, and oh thats because i grew up... since when i was a small child 8 years to 18 years now .

omg, i dun wanna be a child again... sorry...
 
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heidi2521

Padawan
its not even the same period. wii u came out in 2012, the ps4 will come out this year later near december... so i dont see the matching timeline. Hardcore games which dont sell !

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


dude if you really think cod is not hardcore, plz come... we have a server.. lets have a 1 on 1?


so suddenly dota2 is now hardcore?



Yawn........

I never said Dota 2 wasn't hardcore. You just ignore Nintendos more adult oriented games and claim that they do not target you. MS ran a slander campaign against Nintendo claiming that they were only for children with the original Xbox. It looks that they were mighty successful with it(ofc Nintendo didn't help itself by choosing a cartoony celshaded art style for Wind Waker).

"Yawn........" The perfect way to refute my claims.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Mark Rein: The Wii U can run UE4.

Vickybat: It can't.

"You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can!"

That clearly means that it can run on the Wii U. Or are you saying that devs will ship games that don't run on the Wii U for it.

That nowhere means wii u can run ue4. He said developers can use UE 4 in wii u. i guess you didn't find the sarcasm hidden in that comment.
it means, they can use UE-4 for wii u if they only can. :rofl:

"Wii u is next gen" = biggest understatement of the year.
 
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heidi2521

Padawan
you play granturismo, im not saying anything about mario kart. oh.. wait thats because i dont own it anymore, and oh thats because i grew up... since when i was a small child 8 years to 18 years now .

omg, i dun wanna be a child again... sorry...

Claiming MK is not hardcore is "not saying anything about mario kart". I see. Have you seen competitive Mario Kart? Just because children can also play a game doesn't mean that adults can't and that it is not hardcore.

That nowhere means wii u can run ue4. He said developers can use UE 4 in wii u. i guess you didn't find the sarcasm hidden in that comment.
it means, they can use UE-4 for wii u if they only can. :rofl:

"Wii u is next gen" = biggest understatement of the year.

Are you saying that developers can use something the Wii U cannot run on it?

Generations has always been defined by time. So saying Wii U is next-gen is not an understatement in any manner.
 

d3p

PowerHouse
Boost is the Cigarette Secret of My Energy...

*25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pl85Uaid1r1vzzeo1_400.jpg
 

NoasArcAngel

Wise Old Owl
Claiming MK is not hardcore is "not saying anything about mario kart". I see. Have you seen competitive Mario Kart? Just because children can also play a game doesn't mean that adults can't and that it is not hardcore.



Are you saying that developers can use something the Wii U cannot run on it?

Generations has always been defined by time. So saying Wii U is next-gen is not an understatement in any manner.

*fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/314/4/6/this_is_hardcore__1_by_weebiart-d5klfn1.jpg

Expert Gran Turismo 5 Drivers to Compete for Go Pro in GT Academy National Event - IGN

Expert Gran Turismo Drivers Can't Race In Real Life Because They're Too Fast



competitive racing anyone?

*oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/134081/2012/11/Mario-Kart-IRL.jpg

mario kart is for kids, accept it.... the sooner the better

*img.gawkerassets.com/img/18e3yadptyz36jpg/k-bigpic.jpg
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Claiming MK is not hardcore is "not saying anything about mario kart". I see. Have you seen competitive Mario Kart? Just because children can also play a game doesn't mean that adults can't and that it is not hardcore.



Are you saying that developers can use something the Wii U cannot run on it?

Generations has always been defined by time. So saying Wii U is next-gen is not an understatement in any manner.

Wii u is not next gen because:

1. It does not bring anything new to the table. Neither horsepower, nor innovation.
2. Uses old gen tech with no advanced features.
3. Has no hardware support for advanced coding standards (HSA).
4. Lackluster title line up with no major 3rd party support.
5. Lacks the capability of running next gen engines.
6. The games themselves lack maturity.
 
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