NoasArcAngel
Wise Old Owl
nintendo does not want any third party developers, they want to milk only their first party franchises .
Next Gen Console discussion ( PS4 'n Xbox One'n Wii U )
- Status
nintendo does not want any third party developers, they want to milk only their first party franchises .
Bhargav Simha
!mp@sse
Another bit of Bad news for Nintendo fans, head of avalanche studios (Just cause etc) has remarked that they have no plans to develop for Wii U. Though it wouldnt be such a blow to Nintendo, still it puts forward the unfortunate situation Wii-U is in. The problem is Developers dont see a point in making new games for the console which has little to no user base and there is not enough user base because there are not enough titles on it....
I really wish some miracle (a wonderfull nintendo exclusive ip) to happen so that PS and XBOX have competetion.... so that they wont get complacent..
PS has become so humbled in the recent years only because of the dent Wii and XBOX put in their market share...
I really wish some miracle (a wonderfull nintendo exclusive ip) to happen so that PS and XBOX have competetion.... so that they wont get complacent..
PS has become so humbled in the recent years only because of the dent Wii and XBOX put in their market share...
vickybat
I am the night...I am...
Several Wii U dev kits returned to Nintendo untouched
Wii U Dev kits returned to Nintendo untouched
*i.imgur.com/GCAE2Fg.jpg
What the hell is wrong with Nintendo? Are they so sure about their first party releases and ignoring third party support completely?
Fanboy or not, i guess everybody will agree with the fact that Nintendo is getting ignored big time. They are sure aware but i guess are out of ideas to counter a situation like this.
They should have at least given competitive hardware this time round to ensure constant flow of cross platform titles.
Wii U Dev kits returned to Nintendo untouched
*i.imgur.com/GCAE2Fg.jpg
What the hell is wrong with Nintendo? Are they so sure about their first party releases and ignoring third party support completely?
Fanboy or not, i guess everybody will agree with the fact that Nintendo is getting ignored big time. They are sure aware but i guess are out of ideas to counter a situation like this.
They should have at least given competitive hardware this time round to ensure constant flow of cross platform titles.
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CommanderShawnzer
Steam High Templar
More than competitive hardware they should have made the CPU and GPU of x86 architecture,rather than the IBM PowerPC thing they are using right now.
It would make it easier for next gen game devs to port stuff over.
vickybat
I am the night...I am...
Exactly mate. Even a quad core jaguar based soc would have done the job. But i guess its not as easy as we think to obtain new parts.
Maybe they did not have enough funds to approach amd or they have a deal with ibm. Still, they got inferior hardware. PS3's cell is actually still better than the espresso chip that wii-u uses.
Its more like a triple core version of wii's cpu and draws design ques from ibm's power7 architecture ( its like a power saving version like arm A5 and not performance parts like A9 or A15). The cell processor is still superior. Although it has a better gpu than ps3 or xbox360, its no match for what ps4 and next xbox are going to bring.
Apart from hardware, their controller design is getting bashed too. The screen is like a forced add-on. I don't know how the heck Nintendo is going to efficiently use it in their fp titles.
To make things worse, the screen type is resistive.
Games that use the cell processor better, actually look better despite having weaker graphics. That's because cell processor has simd units like gpu and is a very much capable and powerful vector processor. It can do vertex shading like a gpu. That's why early ps3 titles looked bad because they did not use cell that efficiently. Check this:
Wii-U Vs PS3 Comparison Show Wii U Is Not A Huge Leap
*i.imgur.com/bhmZXNy.jpg
The hardware isn't as good and that's why EA had trouble running frostbite 2 on it. The api and sdk standards also makes a difference.
The kind of games Nintendo makes, i don't think they have enough expertise on sdk development like sony or microsoft and has trouble running advanced engines.
Same goes for this:
Head2Head: Assassins Creed III Screenshot Comparison Wii U/PS3/Xbox 360
Here, both xbox 360 and ps3 versions are better than wii-u.
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I'm gonna go ahead and say that the claims that Nintendo are hard to contact for devs is absolutely false.
*i.imgur.com/uK3mChQ.png
I cannot give more definite proof for reasons. If necessary I can PM more proof to one of the admins.
I'd like to see if M$ony have any game as compelling as this:
It has: Giant monsters, Hunting aforementioned monsters, Transforming Mechs, Giant Mechs, Flying Mechs, Battles between mechs, is made by the creators of Baten Kaitos & Xenoblade Chronicles, scored by the person scoring Gundam Unicorn, Is directed by Tetsuya Takahashi(FF IV/V/VI/VII,Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Xenosaga) etc.
Retro Studios is working on something that should be awesome. Exactly zero of their games have not been good. Since they have been hiring ex-ND employees, ex-Crytek employees, and ex-Vigil employees that is probably something appealing entirely to the west. We are yet to see what magic Tokyo EAD (4 I think) has been working and them rescuing Bayonetta from cancellation and oblivion is certainly a sign that they aren't abandoning gamers wanting more adult content.
@CommanderShawnzer
Iwata Asks
Iwata Asks
They didn't go for x86 because their internal teams have no experience with it, it makes cross development between the 3DS & Wii U easier, they can't expect 3rd party devs to pick up the slack for them(even when the hardware was up to snuff little to no support came. Only the usual companies like Capcom & Sega were there), none of their internal teams have a PC heritage or developers with a PC heritage, they wanted low power consumption and the x86 architecture processors don't provide as much efficiency as they needed(The other option would be ARM, which would face all the other problems x86 does internally), they keep shuffling around people between different teams(including xplatform handheld<---->console shuffling) so that their products don't become stale and the developers don't get bored, they wanted BC with the Wii, most of their 3rd party partners(Platinum, Atlus, Namco, Sega, Capcom, Travellers Tales to name a few) have a lot of PPC experience so it wouldn't be any problem for them, them and all their Studios(bar one) being in Japan makes it difficult for them to find enough PC devs to help their teams learn/develop for the x86 in a short enough time, they said that they were already struggling with HD development so having to learn a new architecture would just make the problem worse etc.
From Nintendo's internal perspective sticking to PPC makes sense.
Ref: The GameCube era, GDC keynotes by Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, Masahiro Sakurai across various years, the linked to Iwata asks, various releases by Nintendo.
*i.imgur.com/uK3mChQ.png
I cannot give more definite proof for reasons. If necessary I can PM more proof to one of the admins.
I'd like to see if M$ony have any game as compelling as this:
It has: Giant monsters, Hunting aforementioned monsters, Transforming Mechs, Giant Mechs, Flying Mechs, Battles between mechs, is made by the creators of Baten Kaitos & Xenoblade Chronicles, scored by the person scoring Gundam Unicorn, Is directed by Tetsuya Takahashi(FF IV/V/VI/VII,Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Xenosaga) etc.
Retro Studios is working on something that should be awesome. Exactly zero of their games have not been good. Since they have been hiring ex-ND employees, ex-Crytek employees, and ex-Vigil employees that is probably something appealing entirely to the west. We are yet to see what magic Tokyo EAD (4 I think) has been working and them rescuing Bayonetta from cancellation and oblivion is certainly a sign that they aren't abandoning gamers wanting more adult content.
@CommanderShawnzer
Iwata Asks
Iwata Asks
They didn't go for x86 because their internal teams have no experience with it, it makes cross development between the 3DS & Wii U easier, they can't expect 3rd party devs to pick up the slack for them(even when the hardware was up to snuff little to no support came. Only the usual companies like Capcom & Sega were there), none of their internal teams have a PC heritage or developers with a PC heritage, they wanted low power consumption and the x86 architecture processors don't provide as much efficiency as they needed(The other option would be ARM, which would face all the other problems x86 does internally), they keep shuffling around people between different teams(including xplatform handheld<---->console shuffling) so that their products don't become stale and the developers don't get bored, they wanted BC with the Wii, most of their 3rd party partners(Platinum, Atlus, Namco, Sega, Capcom, Travellers Tales to name a few) have a lot of PPC experience so it wouldn't be any problem for them, them and all their Studios(bar one) being in Japan makes it difficult for them to find enough PC devs to help their teams learn/develop for the x86 in a short enough time, they said that they were already struggling with HD development so having to learn a new architecture would just make the problem worse etc.
From Nintendo's internal perspective sticking to PPC makes sense.
Ref: The GameCube era, GDC keynotes by Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, Masahiro Sakurai across various years, the linked to Iwata asks, various releases by Nintendo.
Exactly mate. Even a quad core jaguar based soc would have done the job. But i guess its not as easy as we think to obtain new parts.
Maybe they did not have enough funds to approach amd or they have a deal with ibm. Still, they got inferior hardware. PS3's cell is actually still better than the espresso chip that wii-u uses.
Its more like a triple core version of wii's cpu and draws design ques from ibm's power7 architecture ( its like a power saving version like arm A5 and not performance parts like A9 or A15). The cell processor is still superior. Although it has a better gpu than ps3 or xbox360, its no match for what ps4 and next xbox are going to bring.
Apart from hardware, their controller design is getting bashed too. The screen is like a forced add-on. I don't know how the heck Nintendo is going to efficiently use it in their fp titles.
To make things worse, the screen type is resistive.
Games that use the cell processor better, actually look better despite having weaker graphics. That's because cell processor has simd units like gpu and is a very much capable and powerful vector processor. It can do vertex shading like a gpu. That's why early ps3 titles looked bad because they did not use cell that efficiently. Check this:
Wii-U Vs PS3 Comparison Show Wii U Is Not A Huge Leap
*i.imgur.com/bhmZXNy.jpg
The hardware isn't as good and that's why EA had trouble running frostbite 2 on it. The api and sdk standards also makes a difference.
The kind of games Nintendo makes, i don't think they have enough expertise on sdk development like sony or microsoft and has trouble running advanced engines.
Same goes for this:
Head2Head: Assassins Creed III Screenshot Comparison Wii U/PS3/Xbox 360
Here, both xbox 360 and ps3 versions are better than wii-u.
1. So according to you, nintendo should have removed backwards compatibility with the Wii, or co-operated with a third party like Dolphin to get the Wii onto the Wii U?
2. The Jaguar processor IPC is worse than the Cell's IPC. So in the CPU part alone, the PS4 is worse than PS3. Lets bash PS4 now too! Dont forget that the Jaguar architecture used on the PS3 is for AMD's APU lineup, i.e. AMD's mid-range CPU lineup, not AMD FX.
3. Since when did a resistive screen become bad? In fact, resistive screens are much more precise at taking inputs than capacitative ones. And the Wii U and the DS line has some of the best resistive screens on the market (for touch input), they don't require much pressure to sense input, and you can easily use your fingers also if you want.
4. Just like PS3 launch games were no indicators of the console performance, the same can be said for the Wii U.
5. Your Arkham City screenshot is invalid. They have to be of the exact same point to be valid. Apart from that it is obvious that a Depth of Field effect is active in the Wii U screenshot. The batsuit is also different from the one on the PS3 screenshot. The Joker images look more or less the same.
6. It is obvious in the PS3, Xbox and Wii U comparison that colour palette was corrected for the PS3 and Xbox, while it was not for the Wii U. In fact, the character models look a little better defined on the Wii U due to improved anti-aliasing and better defined textures. Even shadows are better on the Wii U version. Once you get past the colour pallette hoaxadjustment, you know that for sure. Even the guys at LensofTruth have mentioned that.
They said that the systems match each other at source level. And for colour accuracy they did not mention anything for the Wii U...
...but I keep forgetting who I am arguing with...
BTW, they worked with Renesas, IBM and AMD together.
Shiota said:
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vickybat
I am the night...I am...
You have no idea whom you are arguing with. About your comment on jaguar's ipc is worse than cell, give me some architectural proof about your claims.
Don't worry i'll understand them. Time to shut you up once and for all.
Comparing Cell and ibm power 7 is like comparing apples to oranges. Do you even know the difference between SPE and PPE?
I am arguing with a [sarcasm]know-it-all genius[/sarcasm]
PPE and SPE are components of the Cell Microprocessor. PPE is the multithreaded two-way core that acts as the controlling element of the SPEs or the Synergistec Processing Elements, which are 128-bit SIMD ISA-capable units used for any complex operations by chaining together and passing on the instruction from SPE to SPE until the final output is reached.
And when did I compare Cell and IBM power7? I said that the Jaguar's CPU IPC is weaker than Cells CPU IPC. In fact, it is you who was comparing Power7 to Cell with your Wii U vs PS3 comparison.
If you look at my previous post again, I added new info, that Nintendo worked together with IBM, AMD and Renesas together to create their Espresso MCM. Do you know what MCM means?
vickybat
I am the night...I am...
I am arguing with a [sarcasm]know-it-all genius[/sarcasm]
PPE and SPE are components of the Cell Microprocessor. PPE is the multithreaded two-way core that acts as the controlling element of the SPEs or the Synergistec Processing Elements, which are 128-bit SIMD ISA-capable units used for any complex operations by chaining together and passing on the instruction from SPE to SPE until the final output is reached.
And when did I compare Cell and IBM power7? I said that the Jaguar's CPU IPC is weaker than Cells CPU IPC. In fact, it is you who was comparing Power7 to Cell with your Wii U vs PS3 comparison.
If you look at my previous post again, I added new info, that Nintendo worked together with IBM, AMD and Renesas together to create their Espresso MCM. Do you know what MCM means?
You really don't have any clue on what you're posting do you?. Copying definitions from google isn't gonna help you this time.
You are doing nothing but making a fool out of yourself by comparing a CISC x86 processor with a vector processor.
Btw, a RISC cpu is incapable of complex or macro operations. It takes simple or micro-operations and has extremely low instruction set support compared to what x86 offers.
Your comparison between jaguar and cell really showed your degree of intelligence.
Cell is an HSA unit. It incorporates simd units ( vector processors) in form of SPE's. They work on a huge array of data for a single instruction but incapable of handling complex instructions, ( game console hardly needs these).
Consider the following example:
You have an instruction:
PHP:
a *= 2bNow this is a single operation. Vector processors has the ability to work on a huge data set which x86 cpu's are incapable of.
Lets say, you have 100 data items that works on the above operation.
PHP:
for ( i = 0 ; i<=99 ; i++){
a[i] *= 2b[i];
}So you see, 100 values of 'a' is operated with 100 values of 'b' and assigned to 'a' again .All have different results. This is parallel processing that a vector processor is capable of .
It can work on 100 sets of data in a single cycle whereas a cpu takes multiple cycles as it isn't as parallel as a vector processor.
But cpu can perform complex operations on single data sets efficiently. You don't have to break it down that often.
For example - SQRT (x) is a complex operation and an x86 cpu doesn't have to break it down. They have a massive amount of instruction set support that does the job.
Read up to know how.
Do you know now how foolish it was to compare jaguar and cell in IPC context? Cell's PPE is based on ibm's power pc architecture. But in cell, it just used for scheduling and feeding instructions to the spe's. More like a branch predictor in a conventional cpu front-end. Spe's are vector processor and works in the way i explained before. They are chained, have a common repository with a ring bus like structure so that data can be shared. They are capable of handling gpu functionalities too except rendering as they don't have ROP'S.
Spe's can do vertex shading like a gpu and thus offloads a lot of task from RSX. It can also be used in GPGPU computing like ray tracing which ps3 exclusives bring.
So cell is an HSA architecture just like AMD JAGUAR + AMD GCN in the ps4. The compute engines in a GCN are vector processors like SPE's but have far better IPC and throughput than cell. The peak compute performance is 1.84 teraflops and that's a lot. PS3's CELL doesn't even come close.
Now you realize how flawed you points were? And hey, don't make a laughing stock of yourself by comparing a multi chip module with an APU.
Do you even know what a heterogeneous architecture is ?
This!!!!
No wonder Nintendo is losing developer support and are destined to be doomed.
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Cilus
laborare est orare
Extreme Gamer, again time for you to go back into the study table and reading about what HSA is. By just comparing Jaguar CPU performance with Cell, please don't try to prove anything. Cell is a Vector Processor unit and obviously it will offer better performance than a single JAGUAR CORE, in fact it might perform better than the i7 3770k in floating point performance.
But what you are not understanding that in PS4 & XBOX NEXT, neithet cpu cores nor the stream processor cores workinging independently, instead they are working as a single unit with MANY CORE DESIGN WHERE NOT ALL THE CORES ARE OF SAME TYPE. This concept is backed up by the advanced designs like UMA, UNIFIED MEMORY BUS, direct point to point link among the cores, Unified Cache sharing etc in hardware front and advanced programming models, advanced memory management techniques, HSAIL (HSA Intermediate Language) in software front. It is no more CPU PERFORMANCE & GPU PERFORMANCE any more.
And FYI, total throughput of the PS4 SOC is pretty higher than CEll design. So try to understand things before you're posting. There is no doubt that CELL is a very powerful processing unit and in fact one of the 1st implementation of HSA in consumer based products. But due to its RISC programming models, it is more suitable for special purpose tasks than general computing. They are suitable for Network operations, security and related works, Weather prediction but sadly very limited in general computing an lacks software support. Now the current GPU design and Multi-core CPU designs are backed by languages like OpenCL, CUDA, Open AMP, Microsoft C++ AMP (C++ Accelerated Massive Parallelism), resulting better HSA programming model development, CELL hardly has these kind of advanced framework support and developing an optimizing code block for it in High level language is very difficult unless you have very good knowledge about Cell architecture and instruction support.
Although I am not sure but from your discussion, it looks lik Wii U uses a tripple Core Poer PC CPU and a HD 4770 based GPU. Not this looks more like a custom made PC running Nintendo custom OS. In Processing capability, Power PC is a In Order RISC design and definitely less power ful than current generation X86 CPU from AMD and Intel which use Out of Order hardware implementation, resulting improved IPC performance. The HD 4000 series were never made for compute work and relies upon static or compiler scheduling rather than dynamic scheduling present in nVdia and AMD GCN design. Because of these, it has an inherent problem with HSA implementation.
But what you are not understanding that in PS4 & XBOX NEXT, neithet cpu cores nor the stream processor cores workinging independently, instead they are working as a single unit with MANY CORE DESIGN WHERE NOT ALL THE CORES ARE OF SAME TYPE. This concept is backed up by the advanced designs like UMA, UNIFIED MEMORY BUS, direct point to point link among the cores, Unified Cache sharing etc in hardware front and advanced programming models, advanced memory management techniques, HSAIL (HSA Intermediate Language) in software front. It is no more CPU PERFORMANCE & GPU PERFORMANCE any more.
And FYI, total throughput of the PS4 SOC is pretty higher than CEll design. So try to understand things before you're posting. There is no doubt that CELL is a very powerful processing unit and in fact one of the 1st implementation of HSA in consumer based products. But due to its RISC programming models, it is more suitable for special purpose tasks than general computing. They are suitable for Network operations, security and related works, Weather prediction but sadly very limited in general computing an lacks software support. Now the current GPU design and Multi-core CPU designs are backed by languages like OpenCL, CUDA, Open AMP, Microsoft C++ AMP (C++ Accelerated Massive Parallelism), resulting better HSA programming model development, CELL hardly has these kind of advanced framework support and developing an optimizing code block for it in High level language is very difficult unless you have very good knowledge about Cell architecture and instruction support.
Although I am not sure but from your discussion, it looks lik Wii U uses a tripple Core Poer PC CPU and a HD 4770 based GPU. Not this looks more like a custom made PC running Nintendo custom OS. In Processing capability, Power PC is a In Order RISC design and definitely less power ful than current generation X86 CPU from AMD and Intel which use Out of Order hardware implementation, resulting improved IPC performance. The HD 4000 series were never made for compute work and relies upon static or compiler scheduling rather than dynamic scheduling present in nVdia and AMD GCN design. Because of these, it has an inherent problem with HSA implementation.
You really don't have any clue on what you're posting do you?. Copying definitions from google isn't gonna help you this time.
You are doing nothing but making a fool out of yourself by comparing a CISC x86 processor with a vector processor.
Btw, a RISC cpu is incapable of complex or macro operations. It takes simple or micro-operations and has extremely low instruction set support compared to what x86 offers.
Your comparison between jaguar and cell really showed your degree of intelligence.
Cell is an HSA unit. It incorporates simd units ( vector processors) in form of SPE's. They work on a huge array of data for a single instruction but incapable of handling complex instructions, ( game console hardly needs these).
Consider the following example:
You have an instruction:
PHP:a *= 2b
Now this is a single operation. Vector processors has the ability to work on a huge data set which x86 cpu's are incapable of.
Lets say, you have 100 data items that works on the above operation.
PHP:for ( i = 0 ; i<=99 ; i++){ a[i] *= 2b[i]; }
So you see, 100 values of 'a' is operated with 100 values of 'b' and assigned to 'a' again .All have different results. This is parallel processing that a vector processor is capable of .
It can work on 100 sets of data in a single cycle whereas a cpu takes multiple cycles as it isn't as parallel as a vector processor.
But cpu can perform complex operations on single data sets efficiently. You don't have to break it down that often.
For example - SQRT (x) is a complex operation and an x86 cpu doesn't have to break it down. They have a massive amount of instruction set support that does the job.
Read up to know how.
Do you know now how foolish it was to compare jaguar and cell in IPC context? Cell's PPE is based on ibm's power pc architecture. But in cell, it just used for scheduling and feeding instructions to the spe's. More like a branch predictor in a conventional cpu front-end. Spe's are vector processor and works in the way i explained before. They are chained, have a common repository with a ring bus like structure so that data can be shared. They are capable of handling gpu functionalities too except rendering as they don't have ROP'S.
Spe's can do vertex shading like a gpu and thus offloads a lot of task from RSX. It can also be used in GPGPU computing like ray tracing which ps3 exclusives bring.
So cell is an HSA architecture just like AMD JAGUAR + AMD GCN in the ps4. The compute engines in a GCN are vector processors like SPE's but have far better IPC and throughput than cell. The peak compute performance is 1.84 teraflops and that's a lot. PS3's CELL doesn't even come close.
Now you realize how flawed you points were? And hey, don't make a laughing stock of yourself by comparing a multi chip module with an APU.
Do you even know what a heterogeneous architecture is ?
This!!!!
No wonder Nintendo is losing developer support and are destined to be doomed.
I know what RISC and CISC are capable of, genius.
RISC and CISC have been very close to each other in performance since late-1999 because of excellent design principles. *www.ifp.illinois.edu/~jones/RISCvCISCvDSP.pdf
Now don't tell me that a University of Illinois lecture document lies.
HSA is heterogeneous system architecture, which the cell isn't. It is a processor configured to support vector calculations thanks to the SPEs. And I wasn't even comparing the SPEs to GCN, you genius
I was comparing the SPEs to Jaguar's CPU component. First read what I wrote properly and then comment. It is obvious to anyone that GCN >>> SPE. But not the Jarguar CPU.Heterogeneous architecture is an architecture that can share compute instructions between both the CPU and GPU. One key feature is that the memory pool is shared between the two- something the PS3 does not have. The cache on RSX is not shared with cell or vice versa, and neither is the RAM for the two combined.
And before you think that I don't know what I'm talking about, I got in as a CS student in one of the world's best universities this year. Your posting technical info in an attempt to make me stutter will yield no results.
Besides, you should not be taking this thread off topic. This is about next-gen consoles and not about your pissing contest against Nintendo. How does being accessible mean that Nintendo is losing developer support, genius?
Why don't you just admit that you hate Nintendo and want it to die because they don't have what you think they should have on offer? You should have already learned that the tech industry does not run according to how you want it to run.
First you post blatantly false information without getting your facts right, and then you go on a tirade without really knowing what you're talking about.
I know what HSA is.
I'm not trying to prove anything. He took on the Wii U for using Power7 architecture based MCM, and said that it is weaker than Cell. Even the Jaguar's CPU component is the same. That is all what I was pointing out to him. I know that the Many-cores design used on the PS4/Nextbox means that the Jaguar is beefy, but then again, even espresso can offload compute tasks to the GPU (cell does exactly the opposite).
Cilus, you should read my posts in context rather than out of context.
Activision: Xbox Infinity, PS4 May Face Same Wii U Woes
Say what you want about Bobby Kotick he is certainly no hack and has been good at predicting industry trends(CoD, Skylanders, warning smartphone focused development when Zynga was at its prime and everybody from Square Enix to EA was jumping on board etc). I certainly hope that it is not true. The last thing we need would be an industry crash.
Edit: And ol' Pachterdamus has been predicting that they will be massive successes, so you have that.
Say what you want about Bobby Kotick he is certainly no hack and has been good at predicting industry trends(CoD, Skylanders, warning smartphone focused development when Zynga was at its prime and everybody from Square Enix to EA was jumping on board etc). I certainly hope that it is not true. The last thing we need would be an industry crash.
Edit: And ol' Pachterdamus has been predicting that they will be massive successes, so you have that.
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vickybat
I am the night...I am...
I know what RISC and CISC are capable of, genius.
RISC and CISC have been very close to each other in performance since late-1999 because of excellent design principles. *www.ifp.illinois.edu/~jones/RISCvCISCvDSP.pdf
Now don't tell me that a University of Illinois lecture document lies.
HSA is heterogeneous system architecture, which the cell isn't. It is a processor configured to support vector calculations thanks to the SPEs. And I wasn't even comparing the SPEs to GCN, you genius
Heterogeneous architecture is an architecture that can share compute instructions between both the CPU and GPU. One key feature is that the memory pool is shared between the two- something the PS3 does not have. The cache on RSX is not shared with cell or vice versa, and neither is the RAM for the two combined.
And before you think that I don't know what I'm talking about, I got in as a CS student in one of the world's best universities this year. Your posting technical info in an attempt to make me stutter will yield no results.
Besides, you should not be taking this thread off topic. This is about next-gen consoles and not about your pissing contest against Nintendo. How does being accessible mean that Nintendo is losing developer support, genius? ( Because fools like you stay away from reality. Read my previous posts on Nintendo's dev kits being returned back to them by 10 reputed developers and more soon to follow.)
Why don't you just admit that you hate Nintendo and want it to die because they don't have what you think they should have on offer? You should have already learned that the tech industry does not run according to how you want it to run.
First you post blatantly false information without getting your facts right, and then you go on a tirade without really knowing what you're talking about.
Oh so you didn't learn a lesson. Cell is not heterogeneous?
So still don't have a clue what an spe or ppe is don't you?Don't bring RSX into the picture lol. The cell itself is heterogeneous ( many core architecture) because spe's and ppe are different.
I guess you don't even understand the term heterogeneous.
Like cilus said, its time for you to go to study table as always. And and.....try to comprehend the exact link you posted yourself.
It says nothing that you speak because the guy who wrote those slides isn't as dumb as you seem from your posts. Risc mp's shine in particular tasks only and aren't diversely used as CISC processors. Regular encryption and decryption tasks are better handled by risc cpu's and therefore cell was used in network servers to decrypt hashed passwords and create another more formidable encryption which isn't easy to decrypt by normal brute force techniques and algorithms. Giving a slide doesn't prove any of your claims actually. In fact you have a history of this if i remember correctly.
Your posts are nothing but mindless, and extremely erroneous . Don't you understand plain English? Do you know how foolish it is to compare an SPE with jaguar?
Are you really even a CS student? Coz if it was, i would be the one who should be stuttering and not you ( so you are stuttering
).Well i have a degree in electronics and telecommunication engineering ( this hardly matters in this context.
) from one of leading universities in india ( not world).Cilus here is a CS graduate and an extremely capable software engineer ( also from one of the top universities in india) and you are not able to comprehend him as well?
Are you really this dumb and always a laughing stock? Let me quote what cilus said you in case you are ignorant like always:
Extremegamer,tell us which part is too difficult for you to understand.
I warned you not to go with an argument on things you don't know and incapable of comprehending. I really don't like insulting people for no reason.
You left me no choice.
And about the wii-u, its a self proclaimed next-gen console, bad and foolish design, getting rightly ignored by developers, architecturally its grossly underpowered and can't even match cell as a whole unit ( MCM). You know why frostbite 2 didn't run in wii-u? Its because all the advanced lighting system in bf3 uses ray tracing which the cell is completely capable of handling. But the stripped down latte gpu ( stripped down RV770 found in 4770) is completely under powered for it. In context of this thread, it will be bashed again and again.
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Cilus
laborare est orare
Extreme Gamer, please stop posting complete wrong information everywhere and don't bring where you are going to study to validate your statement. Buddy, seriously, try to learn a little.
CELL is one of the 1st Heterogeneous Compute Design released for Consumer Grade products. The only problem is software and framework support for it. Please just go through the Wikipedia about Heterogeneous Computing here: Heterogeneous computing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and you will find IBM CELL is listed as one of primary ones.
Also, I am not getting one thing, what is the point of comparing the performance of SPE in CELL with a normal X86 Jaguar CPU? Isn't it obvious that in parallel processing and Floating point operation capability, a Vector processor will always beat the normal X86 CPU? SPE can even beat a i7 3770K as I mentioned earlier but how does it matter here? in PS4 or XBOX Next, 8 Jaguar Cores are not the only thing available for processing, it will be done by the CPU + GPU + Unified Ram design; right? So compare the system performance with another system's, not the weak part of it with the strongest part of other? BTW, an 8 Core Jaguar is far more powerful than the PPU used in CELL.
Here is a quote from Wikipedia for CELL:
CommanderShawnzer
Steam High Templar
Reading posts above was like reading Greek & Latin. I have to read up on CPU/GPU Architectures.
Cilus
laborare est orare
^^ You don't need to understand much, just check the Wikipedia link I have posted for Heterogeneous Computing and you will find IBM CELL is mentioned as one of the leading examples and then check Extreme Gamer's claim about CELL not being a HSA design. You will get the message for sure.
HSA is the term used for AMD's APUs which were formerly known as Fusion.
I'm not denying that the Cell based PS3 does not share data between CPU and GPU. I am only pointing out that the nomenclature is incorrect.
I said "HSA is Heterogenous System Architecture, which Cell is not" because it refers to AMDs APU lineup.
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogenous_System_Architecture
I'm not denying that the Cell based PS3 does not share data between CPU and GPU. I am only pointing out that the nomenclature is incorrect.
I said "HSA is Heterogenous System Architecture, which Cell is not" because it refers to AMDs APU lineup.
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogenous_System_Architecture
vickybat
I am the night...I am...
Cliff Bleszinski praises Sony for 'really embracing' indie movement,
Fan-made PlayStation 4 logo is much better than the original
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!
Man somebody please help me control this laughter. This guy thinks HSA is AMD's nomenclature.
Fan-made PlayStation 4 logo is much better than the original
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!
Man somebody please help me control this laughter. This guy thinks HSA is AMD's nomenclature.
CommanderShawnzer
Steam High Templar
Sony and MS should really give Indie Devs the SDK kits cheap IMO
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