Next Gen Console discussion ( PS4 'n Xbox One'n Wii U )

[RCuber]

I didn't like the Wii U controller/logic in the first place.

 

[vickybat]

I didn't like the Wii U controller/logic in the first place.

Exactly, its more like a gimmick. They have run out of all ideas.

Sony Adding Indie Games Section to PlayStation Store

This is a brilliant move btw. Supporting indie devs will bring quality content in the likes of journey, braid and super meat boy.
Sony is making the platform extremely diverse. Microsoft is also likely to follow the same philosophy.

 

[heidi2521]

I didn't like the Wii U controller/logic in the first place.

What did you not like about it? It does everything a traditional controller can do and more. It is quite light and barring the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, is the most ergonomic controller I've ever used.

EA implies DICE is horrible at coding/optimization

Next-gen EA games will skip Wii U due to performance issues with Frostbite engine

After all coders from Crytek, Ubisoft, Criterion etc. have been able to make their engine run on the Wii U with no drops/ some improvements over the PS360. EA wouldn't lie about the actual reason, would they?

Shadow of the Eternals( runs on Cryengine 3), an Eternal Darkness spiritual successor is headed to the Wii U.

Eternal Darkness Spiritual Successor Shadow of the Eternals Headed to Wii U, PC - IGN

 

[vickybat]

Shadow of the Eternals: The first game that shows off next gen graphics on Wii U? | IGN Boards

The comments in the link are interesting.

Game is completely dumbed down on wii-u and massively scaled down. Given the right hardware , cryengine 3 has far more potential to shine.
This has already been seen in the comparison of crysis 3 in pc and current gen consoles.Still something is better than nothing.

Frostbite 3 is a different beast though and EA is in no plans scaling its engine down and is keen on sticking with x86 development standards.
The BF4 demo makes crysis 3 look like last gen.

P.S Crytek has yet to bring their next-gen game engine. Maybe after a couple of years into next-gen development.

Spoiler

*i.imgur.com/vFBYtgy.jpg

If this is the best wii -u can do, then it better start packing up soon.

*i.imgur.com/18QmSZk.jpg

An upcoming ps3 title named "The last of us". Honestly, the graphics are of next gen standards.
That's one heck of a feat to pull off.

*i.imgur.com/yX1dfiR.jpg

Same goes for halo 4. Impressive optimizations from microsoft's 343 industries.

 

[darkv0id]

Shadow of the Eternals: The first game that shows off next gen graphics on Wii U? | IGN Boards

The comments in the link are interesting.

Game is completely dumbed down on wii-u and massively scaled down. Given the right hardware , cryengine 3 has far more potential to shine.
This has already been seen in the comparison of crysis 3 in pc and current gen consoles.Still something is better than nothing.

Frostbite 3 is a different beast though and EA is in no plans scaling its engine down and is keen on sticking with x86 development standards.
The BF4 demo makes crysis 3 look like last gen.

P.S Crytek has yet to bring their next-gen game engine. Maybe after a couple of years into next-gen development.

^Got to say I somewhat agree with this. My own opinion echoes the ones that have been posted on that thread. Sure the graphics look nice, somewhat better than many games on the 360 and PS3, but they are nowhere near next gen.

But there's no way of telling if DICE want to be genuinely uncompromising.... or if they are just being lazy. After all, graphics don't affect the gameplay... mostly. If they wanted they could have downscaled the graphics and released the games on the WiiU.

EDIT: I've been lurking on this thread since it started, and well... I don't know whether to be amused or sad. Every single developer keeps blabbering about next gen graphics. Almost no one is giving any indication of what they going to do in terms of next gen gameplay. Makes me unhappy.

 

[RCuber]

What did you not like about it? It does everything a traditional controller can do and more. It is quite light and barring the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, is the most ergonomic controller I've ever used.

TBH, I have not used the Wii U, I just didn't get the point of including a touch screen i.e., taking the eye off the main screen to look at the secondary screen.

having said that I can change my views once I use a Wii U.

 

[heidi2521]

^Got to say I somewhat agree with this. My own opinion echoes the ones that have been posted on that thread. Sure the graphics look nice, somewhat better than what we've seen on the 360 and PS3, but they are nowhere near next gen.

But there's no way of telling if DICE want to be genuinely uncompromising.... or if they are just being lazy. After all, graphics don't affect the gameplay... mostly. If they wanted they could have downscaled the graphics and released the games on the WiiU.

I was claiming that EA is implying that they are horrible at code optimization because they claim that they ran into performance issues with the FB2 itself.

I doubt that DICE is being uncompromising. They are scaling the engine down unlike a certain genius on my ignore list claims.

Otherwise you wouldn't have this.

Battlefield 4 - Xbox 360 - IGN

Plus, if the latest chiphell leak is true the PS4 will be out powered by PCs even before it releases.

 

[darkv0id]

I was claiming that EA is implying that they are horrible at code optimization because they claim that they ran into performance issues with the FB2 itself.

Well.. that's another of putting it. Anyway, I don't know a thing about game engines and hardware architecture, so opinion isn't worth much.

Plus, if the latest chiphell leak is true the PS4 will be out powered by PCs even before it releases.

This is what worries me. As I pointed out in my edit, almost every developer is playing the "next gen graphics" as their trumpcard, with almost no focus on showcasing what they are doing about next-gen gameplay, I wonder what they they are going to do when the PC makes their "next-gen" graphics look outdated.

 

[heidi2521]

TBH, I have not used the Wii U, I just didn't get the point of including a touch screen i.e., taking the eye off the main screen to look at the secondary screen.

having said that I can change my views once I use a Wii U.

Well, the second screen truly shines in multiplayer . Asymmetric multiplayer is a ton of fun and even in symmetric situations like in Tekken and Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed having the whole screen to yourself is pretty good. Then there are the co-op opportunities it provides like in games like NSMBU, Pikmin Adventure and Metroid Blast.

In singleplayer the second screen is being used in multiple ways that help/enhance the gameplay like as a quick inventory access, environment scanning/interacting system, quick map viewing, batputers and communicators, info access etc. It is a bit like the DS. You look at one screen most of the time and the second screen is used to enhance your experience. The gamepad also has Off-TV play letting me hunt monsters while my sister watches Grey's Anatomy. In some games the gamepad is used as the main screen with the TV providing a quick overview of what is happening.

It allows for removal of HUD elements from the TV screen making it look less cluttered and letting the environment shine out even more.

The touchscreen also allows unique gameplay like in Murphy's Dungeon, The Wonderful 101, and much better accuracy/faster response while chucking Pikmin around. It also has great potential in menu driven RPGs.

I agree that the Gamepad is difficult to 'get' without using it, not unlike when people saw the DS for the first time. I myself didn't 'get' it when I first saw it, but since the console had enough games I wanted to play I ended up buying it.

 

[vickybat]

The kind of custom hardware designed by sony and amd is one of the finest the industry has ever seen.
Technical information in this thread has been overlooked mostly by self proclaimed mindless fanboys with no insight into reality whatsoever.

The gpu inside PS4 is nothing like the desktop gpu's we use and is heavily customized to support HSA. Me and cilus are actually writing an article to clear the views of members here about the PS4 being inferior because they mistook its gpu to be a mere 7870 derivative, which its not. To outperform something like that, it will take atleast two years for PC to catch up and until it starts supporting HSA standards and interrupt control the ps4 and next xbox will bring. Mark cerny's interview was extremely technical so its taking a bit of time for us to put things in place.

Secrets of the PS4: Heavily modified Radeon, supercharged APU design

Nintendo knows this and thus backed out. The developers know this and thus avoiding the wii-u. The console is doomed until nintendo does something unthinkable ( extremely unlikely).

 

[RCuber]

Well, the second screen truly shines in multiplayer . Asymmetric multiplayer is a ton of fun and even in symmetric situations like in Tekken and Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed having the whole screen to yourself is pretty good. Then there are the co-op opportunities it provides like in games like NSMBU, Pikmin Adventure and Metroid Blast.

In singleplayer the second screen is being used in multiple ways that help/enhance the gameplay like as a quick inventory access, environment scanning/interacting system, quick map viewing, batputers and communicators, info access etc. It is a bit like the DS. You look at one screen most of the time and the second screen is used to enhance your experience. The gamepad also has Off-TV play letting me hunt monsters while my sister watches Grey's Anatomy. In some games the gamepad is used as the main screen with the TV providing a quick overview of what is happening.

It allows for removal of HUD elements from the TV screen making it look less cluttered and letting the environment shine out even more.

The touchscreen also allows unique gameplay like in Murphy's Dungeon, The Wonderful 101, and much better accuracy/faster response while chucking Pikmin around. It also has great potential in menu driven RPGs.

I agree that the Gamepad is difficult to 'get' without using it, not unlike when people saw the DS for the first time. I myself didn't 'get' it when I first saw it, but since the console had enough games I wanted to play I ended up buying it.

time to go on a Wii U demo hunt. as said before will reevaluate the controller after having a proper demo. lets get back to the discussion.

PS: anyone in Bangalore having a Wii U?

 

[vickybat]

time to go on a Wii U demo hunt. as said before will reevaluate the controller after having a proper demo. lets get back to the discussion.

PS: anyone in Bangalore having a Wii U?

You'll struggle to find a wii-u in india, let alone bengaluru.
Wii-u has no official presence in india. Only 3ds is available but at higher import costs.
Did you own any consoles before mate?

 

[heidi2521]

Well.. that's another of putting it. Anyway, I don't know a thing about game engines and hardware architecture, so opinion isn't worth much.



This is what worries me. As I pointed out in my edit, almost every developer is playing the "next gen graphics" as their trumpcard, with almost no focus on showcasing what they are doing about next-gen gameplay, I wonder what they they are going to do when the PC makes their "next-gen" graphics look outdated.

Thats my concern too. Considering that most of the blockbusters coming up are cross gen there is little incentive to buy next gen consoles. Without much of an install base on next gen consoles there will be little incentive to make a title next gen exclusive. It is a vicious cycle that won't be broken without significant money hats by M$ony. Except the most extreme graphics snob(who probably are members of the PC gaming master race) very few will pay 20,000 - 25,000 just to play a slightly better looking GTA V. Considering that games like Tomb Raider barely break even and the fact that next gen costs will be much greater it doesn't look too good for diversity/experimental gameplay and massive, well populated open worlds. To profit, everybody will be betting on the same kind of blockbuster. Considering that there hasn't been any rise in the internal rendering resolution games like the Tales series will not look any better on the PS4 and they barely look any better that the PS2/GC on the PS3 anyway.


We may see a continuation of the trend where massive/open/experimental games continue to move to handhelds where they are significantly cheaper to make and easier to profit upon.

Trying to make something like Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy 7 would be suicidal on the western next gen consoles today. Either they would get mauled for not looking as good or wouldn't break even due to the massive production costs. Instead we see similar games like Bravely Default and P4G coming up on the 3DS and PS Vita.

 

[vickybat]

This is what worries me. As I pointed out in my edit, almost every developer is playing the "next gen graphics" as their trumpcard, with almost no focus on showcasing what they are doing about next-gen gameplay, I wonder what they they are going to do when the PC makes their "next-gen" graphics look outdated.

Well it shouldn't be much of a worry. Gameplay and interactive options are already covered. Motion and gesture controls are extremely enhanced in these next-gen systems. The playstation eye no has two cameras for increased depth and motion tracking. The light bar mechanism on DS4 is going to work wonder sin FPS titles too as claimed by Destiny's developer "Bungie". Besides the old move controllers also work the same way. The integration of touchpad is a more sensible decision than a touchscreen and more of its applications will be unveiled at E3, so stay tuned.

Talk about microsoft, you must have already heard about illumiroom. Rumors are that they'll also make way into pc. It has the capability to project the entire game world in 3d into the living room.
The concept is nothing less than revolutionary. These are the gameplay options next-gen promises.

Actually this time, pc and next-gen consoles ( except wii-u) aren't exactly competitors. They have same development standards and philosophies considering the underlying hardware.
Nintendo is the odd one out and thus its future seems skeptical to most.

About that previous comment on why battlefield 4 is coming to the xbox 360 (scaled down) and not wii-u, the answer lies in the sdk standards.
Microsoft sdk's ( even sony) are far more dev friendly now and tapping into their architecture is now easy. Its all about low level access and efficient communication with low level hardware.

The kind of games nintendo makes, its api standards are inferior to what microsoft and sony use ( direct x and libgcm). Thus there are performance issues with the wii-u in advanced engines.

*asia.gamespot.com/news/tomb-raider-sets-franchise-sales-record-6406183

The point about tomb raider barely breaking even is completely moot and its actually a pita to compare it with bravely default which is japan centric.
A global audience is needed for a franchise to be even considered successful and final fantasy is just that. 300,000 copies makes a title relatively successful in a constrained environment but not as a whole. Limited audience TBH.

 

[darkv0id]

Well it shouldn't be much of a worry. Gameplay and interactive options are already covered. Motion and gesture controls are extremely enhanced in these next-gen systems. The playstation eye no has two cameras for increased depth and motion tracking. The light bar mechanism on DS4 is going to work wonder sin FPS titles too as claimed by Destiny's developer "Bungie". Besides the old move controllers also work the same way. The integration of touchpad is a more sensible decision than a touchscreen and more of its applications will be unveiled at E3, so stay tuned.

Talk about microsoft, you must have already heard about illumiroom. Rumors are that they'll also make way into pc. It has the capability to project the entire game world in 3d into the living room.
The concept is nothing less than revolutionary. These are the gameplay options next-gen promises.

I find stuff like the Illumiroom and Oculus Rift quite fascinating... however they aren't what I personally consider an important part of my gameplay experience, but that's just me.

What do I want, when I mean better gameplay? Simply put, I mean I want better games.

I want a world that feels organic, where my actions genuinely matter. Where people have complex, layered behavior, and are not mere cardboard cutouts. I want a really huge world, with really huge places. I want Skyrim, but this time I want Whiterun to have 200 NPCs, not 20. If these next-gen consoles are really as powerful as they claim to be, that's where I want that power to go. Also, I want stories that will make me think. Stuff like Planescape: Torment and The Witcher 2.

I realize that you may very well be correct, and I may be in the minority, but new control methods and visual options are only a small part of what I consider next-gen gameplay.

 

[vickybat]

I find stuff like the Illumiroom and Oculus Rift quite fascinating... however they aren't what I personally consider an important part of my gameplay experience, but that's just me.

What do I want, when I mean better gameplay? Simply put, I mean I want better games.

I want a world that feels organic, where my actions genuinely matter. Where people have complex, layered behavior, and are not mere cardboard cutouts. I want a really huge world, with really huge places. I want Skyrim, but this time I want Whiterun to have 200 NPCs, not 20. If these next-gen consoles are really as powerful as they claim to be, that's where I want that power to go. Also, I want stories that will make me think. Stuff like Planescape: Torment and The Witcher 2.

I realize that you may very well be correct, and I may be in the minority, but new control methods and visual options are only a small part of what I consider next-gen gameplay.

Well you aren't at all wrong buddy. The points you've put actually counts and matters big time. This is what next gen systems are destined to deliver. Considering the sheer compute power and multi core architecture, expanding the game world into massive environments is inevitable. Witcher 3 is also coming with the same insight. Its gonna be a huge open world true to the next-gen sense.
This is where the compute power of "true" next gen systems will come in handy. The ability to render more in real time.

The next elder scrolls title will definitely have 200 NPC's instead of 20. These were the limitations of current gen systems, which the next gen systems are destined to break through.
Check out the development progress of bungie's destiny. An FPS with rpg elements, coupled with massive environments. That's next gen stuff for me.

 

[darkv0id]

Well you aren't at all wrong buddy. The points you've put actually counts and matters big time. This is what next gen systems are destined to deliver. Considering the sheer compute power and multi core architecture, expanding the game world into massive environments is inevitable. Witcher 3 is also coming with the same insight. Its gonna be a huge open world true to the next-gen sense.
This is where the compute power of "true" next gen systems will come in handy. The ability to render more in real time.

The next elder scrolls title will definitely have 200 NPC's instead of 20. These were the limitations of current gen systems, which the next gen systems are destined to break through.
Check out the development progress of bungie's destiny. An FPS with rpg elements, coupled with massive environments. That's next gen stuff for me.

I do have high hopes of The Witcher 3 and Destiny.... here's hoping more devs craft their games with the same care and passion as Bungie and CDPR.

 

[RCuber]

You'll struggle to find a wii-u in india, let alone bengaluru.
Wii-u has no official presence in india. Only 3ds is available but at higher import costs.
Did you own any consoles before mate?

Nope.. PC Gamer.. but planing to buy a bluray player in future. so based on cost of the next gen consoles I might go for which ever is cheaper...

 

[vickybat]

Nope.. PC Gamer.. but planing to buy a bluray player in future. so based on cost of the next gen consoles I might go for which ever is cheaper...

Well for a blueray player, wii-u is out of contention coz it lacks one. The PS3 ,PS4 and next xbox are the ones to sport one.
Pricing will be obviously higher than a standalone blueray player. If you want a cheap one to play BD movies, you might want to have a look at these:

Philips BDP3380/12 Blu Ray Player - Philips: Flipkart.com

Philips BDP2900 Blu Ray Player - Philips: Flipkart.com

Sony BDP-S190 Blu Ray Player - Sony: Flipkart.com

You might find the sony one cheaper in retail sony outlets.


Back to topic:

PlayStation 4 And Next-Gen Xbox Games Won’t Appear On Wii U Because Duh

 

[Cilus]

Buddy, I think next gen Game play is going to be an inherrent part of the next gen Graphics. When people are talking about the next gen graphics quality, they're actually pointing out about the hardware capabilities and the new models and architectures used in it. As a result very powerful AI codes and game intelligence logics, as well as advanced gameplay models can be implemented which was tough to optimize in the older architecture and their imiting processing powers.
The new consoles (except Wii) are not only a 8 Core Processor along with a dedicated and powerful GPU, they are something different, a move to the next generation HSA implementation which offers plenty of possibilities.