Next Gen Console discussion ( PS4 'n Xbox One'n Wii U )

[vickybat]

'Next Xbox Will Not Be Compatible With Second Hand' - NowGamer (new source: Xing Interactive).

I wonder if they will backtrack on this and just do something like authentication upon launch due to the huge backlash against always online.

Already posted the same link in post # 311. You're late.

Yeah this will be a huge setback. I hope they won't play this card.

 

[heidi2521]

CDPRED: PS4 is a high end PC.

 

[vickybat]

Nintendo CEO Seen Missing Profit Target as Wii U Founders

Nintendo Expecting To Post Significant Losses

Nintendo should really work on the software side and deliver something unexpected. They should also try and woo many third party developers.
Simply first party development methodology won't do them any good in the coming next-gen race. I don't understand why the hell they didn't go with x86 for wii-u.

Anyways, here's some more:

Microsoft job listings back up "leaked" Xbox 720 specs

 

[heidi2521]

*www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/130424e.pdf

Nintendo posts 7.099 bn yen net profit. Analysts wrong about Nintendo as usual. They expected to post a 20bn yen loss.

They didn't go with x86 on the Wii U to keep backwards compatibility with the Wii and because their internal studios had much more experience with this architecture.

BTW, the Wii U marks the best western 3rd party support they have had since the SNES. Japanese ones like Namco and Atlus and Sega are all aboard. Their FP focus makes sense because historically Nintendo consoles have been driven by FP games and FP games are the best sellers on their consoles.

9 mn Wii U sales forecast for FY 13-14. Something crazy must be underworks for them to expect that. The rumour mill that has largely been accurate so fat agrees with that.

Welcome to Nintendo of America's Media Site

Iwata becomes NOA CEO to allow NOA to do things on its own rather than just being a NCL puppet.

Wii U attach rate is 3.8898 meaning that the console is not just breaking even, but is profitable per unit sold. Such a high attach rate(for a console so early in its life) indicates that the casuals/semi-casuals are the one demographic they haven't been able to attract.

 

[vickybat]

The weaker yen saved nintendo from another loss. Btw, their operative income suffered a loss of 36.4bn yen from original estimates of 20bn yen.

Yet, they are again forecasting a 55bn yen this year to next. I guess they know what they are doing or having seizures doing so.

Nintendo swings back into profit - Telegraph

Besides that's really not a good enough reason to skip x86. Ninty's competitors also are extremely experienced with the previous RISC architecture.
Maybe they couldn't get to strike a good deal with intel or amd financially. Besides, the kind of games they make won't matter that much for a specific architecture.
It doesn't matter whether its x86 or RISC.

AMD giving them a stone age R700 based gpu, instead of their latest GCN ones might also be an indication of not being able to financially strike a sound deal.
It would have been great if ninty would have atleast bagged a quad core jaguar based cpu with a 7750 class GCN gpu. Atleast it would have had some massive third party support from AAA western studios like CD Projeckt, bungie etc or even japanese ones like Konami , Tango Gameworks etc for their upcoming , most anticipated games. Would have been a nice balance between ninty games and the ones i mention.

 

[heidi2521]

Shin'en Multimedia working on two Wii U games.

SuperPhillip Central: SPC Interviews: Manfred Linzner (Shin'en Multimedia)

Nintendo could not go for stronger hardware because they do not have the resources to participate in the pissing contest (of higher specs and lower price) it has become in between Sony and Microsoft. Unlike them they do not have a multimedia/hardware/software arm backing them up in the initial years where they take massive losses. Nintendo's dev teams were already struggling with HD development. Even higher specs and an entirely different architecture would mean that they wouldn't be able to cope at all. I don't really think that games depend on architecture at all. M$ony are expected to take a $100 - $200 loss per console in the initial years. Nintendo can't afford that. It'd be pretty great if they could, but they simply can't.

I believe that the analysts were aware of the weaker yen when they predicted a 20bn yen loss. Their operating loss has to do with their recent expansion of their dev teams and creation of new ones, creation of new office space and a massive restructure of the company. Their net assets increased by 79000 million yen, inline with what you would expect given their current profit.

The main sales drivers of the M$ony come from a PC background and have experience with the x86 architecture too. Nintendo's sales drivers don't.

The RISC architecture also has the advantage that it makes it easier for them to leverage their 3DS teams to help the Wii U.

As EAD Tokyo, EAD Group 4, Platinum Games and Monolith Soft have shown, you can create stunning games without the latest hardware.

Nintendo got the shaft with 3rd party support even when they had competitive hardware, so it wouldn't make sense for them to continue in that path. Nintendo itself has said that it is not in direct competition with M$ony any more. Considering that most third party games released in the next 2-3 years at least will be cross-gen, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to port to the Wii U. The 3rd parties themselves are not interested.

BTW, Tango Gameworks is American, not Japanese.

Edit: "In addition we are planning to more actively support the Japanese software developers in distributing their key titles overseas" and "We plan to concentrate to concentrate on proactively releasing key Nintendo titles from the second half of this year through next year in order to regain momentum for the platform" seem to imply that they are trying to get smaller/reluctant Japanese devs onboard the Wii U so that they can get exclusivity for their in the west, helping drive sales and that they will flood the market with big name IPs like Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Smash, Pikmin and more this fall.

 

[vickybat]

Shin'en Multimedia working on two Wii U games.

SuperPhillip Central: SPC Interviews: Manfred Linzner (Shin'en Multimedia)

Nintendo could not go for stronger hardware because they do not have the resources to participate in the pissing contest (of higher specs and lower price) it has become in between Sony and Microsoft. Unlike them they do not have a multimedia/hardware/software arm backing them up in the initial years where they take massive losses. Nintendo's dev teams were already struggling with HD development. Even higher specs and an entirely different architecture would mean that they wouldn't be able to cope at all. I don't really think that games depend on architecture at all. M$ony are expected to take a $100 - $200 loss per console in the initial years. Nintendo can't afford that. It'd be pretty great if they could, but they simply can't.

The bold part is a moot point. That was applicable for ps3 and 360 which used custom ibm architecture for their cpu's. Sony had to fund for the development of cell processor and thus had to incur with the losses per console sold initially. The diodes in the blue ray player were also new and cost more back then. Same isn't going to happen with ps4 or next xbox. Reason is the use of off-shelf parts, procured from AMD, which are far far lower than the initial costs of an ibm custom cpu. In the APU mold, they are not only cheaper to mass produce but also bring new architectural standards. Both are expected to launch their next-gen consoles at profitable prices. Even GDDDR5 rams are cheaper than the xdr ones used in ps3.

The only two reasons of nintendo backing out of a more conventional path is that:
1. Incapable financially
2. Not necessary for their developing standards.

The RISC architecture also has the advantage that it makes it easier for them to leverage their 3DS teams to help the Wii U.

This can be a reason. Have to see some practical examples though.

As EAD Tokyo, EAD Group 4, Platinum Games and Monolith Soft have shown, you can create stunning games without the latest hardware.

Well, i have to wait and see how much of a leap bayonetta 2 will be over the original. I don't expect much of a visual difference. But how long the above argument holds has to be seen,
once x86 in console starts to mature. Will platinum games continue to support wii -u or move on to x86 next-gen. I see a very high possibility of the latter happening.

BTW, Tango Gameworks is American, not Japanese.

This is not completely right.

Tango Gameworks is a Japan-based video game development company located in Tokyo, Japan. It was founded on March 1, 2010 by Shinji Mikami, the creator of the Resident Evil series.[2] Tango Gameworks is a division of ZeniMax Asia.

Being part of an american publisher does not take away their Japanese roots. They are still an all Japanese studio.

 

[heidi2521]

The bold part is a moot point. That was applicable for ps3 and 360 which used custom ibm architecture for their cpu's. Sony had to fund for the development of cell processor and thus had to incur with the losses per console sold initially. The diodes in the blue ray player were also new and cost more back then. Same isn't going to happen with ps4 or next xbox. Reason is the use of off-shelf parts, procured from AMD, which are far far lower than the initial costs of an ibm custom cpu. In the APU mold, they are not only cheaper to mass produce but also bring new architectural standards. Both are expected to launch their next-gen consoles at profitable prices. Even GDDDR5 rams are cheaper than the xdr ones used in ps3.

The only two reasons of nintendo backing out of a more conventional path is that:
1. Incapable financially
2. Not necessary for their developing standards.



This can be a reason. Have to see some practical examples though.



Well, i have to wait and see how much of a leap bayonetta 2 will be over the original. I don't expect much of a visual difference. But how long the above argument holds has to be seen,
once x86 in console starts to mature. Will platinum games continue to support wii -u or move on to x86 next-gen. I see a very high possibility of the latter happening.



This is not completely right.



Being part of an american publisher does not take away their Japanese roots. They are still an all Japanese studio.

Looks like i was misinformed about Tango.

IIRC, PS4 equivalent hardware would cost us consumers $800 - $1000, so even with bulk discounts and special rates there is no way the hardware is going to be sold at profit unless Sony is willing to repeat the "$599 US Dollars" fiasco. MS certainly won't want to make the same mistake. You have to factor in manufacturing, assembling and distribution costs before you pronounce the console profitable.

As I pointed out earlier, Nintendo is financially incapable of taking that kind of loss.

According to Iwata Asks interviews there is a lot of personnel shuffling between teams and other dev teams are brought in to finish a game to meet its deadlines. Eg. Retro helping finish MK7 in time. Not having to learn a new architecture probably helps with that. Cross platform development of titles is also helped by having the same architecture. Eg. Smash 4 & MH3U.

I was referring to TW101 when mentioning PG. The 24 FPS SD trailer on youtube doesn't do it justice. Platinum will continue to support the Wii U as long as it is contracted to make games for it. EAD Tokyo and Monolith Soft were able to create stunning games of the Wii's hardware in 2010 so this argument should hold up for quite some time(Unless you claim 97 & 92 on Metacritic are indicative of "Meh" games).

*www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/04/24/source-next-xbox-reveal-set-for-may-21.aspx

*www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/04/24/source-next-xbox-reveal-set-for-may-21.aspx

 

[CommanderShawnzer]

Next Xbox Reveal Is Official On 21st May

 

[vickybat]

Looks like i was misinformed about Tango.

I know.

IIRC, PS4 equivalent hardware would cost us consumers $800 - $1000, so even with bulk discounts and special rates there is no way the hardware is going to be sold at profit unless Sony is willing to repeat the "$599 US Dollars" fiasco. MS certainly won't want to make the same mistake. You have to factor in manufacturing, assembling and distribution costs before you pronounce the console profitable.As I pointed out earlier, Nintendo is financially incapable of taking that kind of loss.

Well this point is again moot. You simply can't compare the costs of the innards of a mass produced console directly with pc parts. Besides, there is no eight core jaguar chip for consumers. Its a custom design. Well for pc, lets say we combine the ps4 parts, the closest we can go for is an amd fx 8 core cpu, motherboard with a radeon 7870 gpu , with ram , hdd and psu. They would roughly cost $700-$800. But in ps4, all those things are much smaller and in the form of an SOC with cpu+gpu fused into an APU. Its much cheaper to make and especially mass produce.

There's no way ps4 will be sold at a loss this time, specially with AMD behind this time. Blue-ray drives has also become mainstream these days and are cheaper than before. They are expected to make a profit of $100 per console sold. The design approach is full proof and solid with no flaws. John Carmack gave a thumbs up to the design and approach. That means a lot really. Nintendo had a chance to pull something like that but didn't do it.

They were too afraid to try something new.

XBOX Reveal Date

Finally microsoft made something official. It might have some tricks up its sleeve.


PlayStation 4: The complete tech breakdown from Mark Cerny

More info about the most anticipated console of the year.

 

[heidi2521]

I know.



Well this point is again moot. You simply can't compare the costs of the innards of a mass produced console directly with pc parts. Besides, there is no eight core jaguar chip for consumers. Its a custom design. Well for pc, lets say we combine the ps4 parts, the closest we can go for is an amd fx 8 core cpu, motherboard with a radeon 7870 gpu , with ram , hdd and psu. They would roughly cost $700-$800. But in ps4, all those things are much smaller and in the form of an SOC with cpu+gpu fused into an APU. Its much cheaper to make and especially mass produce.

There's no way ps4 will be sold at a loss this time, specially with AMD behind this time. Blue-ray drives has also become mainstream these days and are cheaper than before. They are expected to make a profit of $100 per console sold. The design approach is full proof and solid with no flaws. John Carmack gave a thumbs up to the design and approach. That means a lot really. Nintendo had a chance to pull something like that but didn't do it.

They were too afraid to try something new.

XBOX Reveal Date

Finally microsoft made something official. It might have some tricks up its sleeve.


PlayStation 4: The complete tech breakdown from Mark Cerny

More info about the most anticipated console of the year.

Lets do a full price breakdown(extremely generous):

APU - $100 (Minimum)
GDDR5 RAM - ~$120
OS Chip - $15(lower end ARM chip)
Encode Chip - $15(also lower end ARM chip)
Blu Ray - $20
Hard Drive - $40
USB Ports and other I/O. - $15
Network Chip - $10
Dualshock 4 - $30(DS3 Cost + 5 for touchpad)
PS Eye - $5(lower end webcam)
Headset - $2
Cables - $5

Total $367.

This does not include the price of the Motherboard, PSU, Fans(I doubt it will be liquid cooled), Case, Packaging, Manuals, Assembly, Transport, Q.A., Customs, Licensing Fees(Codecs, HDCP compliance, patents etc.) and anything I may have missed and assumes that manufacturers will take minimal profit on products supplied(unlikely).

Once you factor in all that there is no way the PS4 will be initially sold at a profit, let alone a $100 profit.

RAM cost estimated from:
*www.abload.de/img/gpuq3280ufv.png

Src: Mercury Research report on GPU manufacturing cost.

Nobody said the architecture is bad, so that point is irrelevant here. It is as irrelevant as saying that Kamiya has given a thumbs up to the approach of the Wii U.

Totally nothing new:

*www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wii-U.jpg

As I've pointed out before Nintendo is incapable of participating in this kind of pissing contest so they choose to differentiate themselves.

David gibson live tweeting Nintendo investors meet.

Nintendo wiiu momentum is lost already, want continuous software releases and more important that software has high satisfaction

*twitter.com/gibbogame/status/327260169912348672

 

[vickybat]

Lets do a full price breakdown(extremely generous):

APU - $100 (Minimum)
GDDR5 RAM - ~$120
OS Chip - $15(lower end ARM chip)
Encode Chip - $15(also lower end ARM chip)
Blu Ray - $20
Hard Drive - $40
USB Ports and other I/O. - $15
Network Chip - $10
Dualshock 4 - $30(DS3 Cost + 5 for touchpad)
PS Eye - $5(lower end webcam)
Headset - $2
Cables - $5

Total $367.

This does not include the price of the Motherboard, PSU, Fans(I doubt it will be liquid cooled), Case, Packaging, Manuals, Assembly, Transport, Q.A., Customs, Licensing Fees(Codecs, HDCP compliance, patents etc.) and anything I may have missed and assumes that manufacturers will take minimal profit on products supplied(unlikely).

Once you factor in all that there is no way the PS4 will be initially sold at a profit, let alone a $100 profit.

Again a moot point. The list is FUD. There are no ARM chips in the PS4. Besides, the ram listing you gave is pretty old. GDDR5 ram prices has fallen since.
Even taking your total expenditure of $350 (round), if sony sells PS4 at $450, isn't there a profit of $100? The new ps eye btw is not low end. It comes with 2 cameras capable of 720p.
The move controller of ps3 is totally supported here with even better sensitivity.

PS4 price in UK; how much will the PlayStation 4 cost? - PC Advisor

The pricing maybe more or divided among different SKU's. Don't know about the exact profit amount ( only sony knows) but its certain that PS4 will
not sell at a loss like the PS3 did initially in per units sold.

Read the earlier link i gave. Its a very technical one comprising of 3 pages. It comes from ps4's lead architect "Mark Cerny" in an interview.

Posting it again:

PlayStation 4: The complete tech breakdown from Mark Cerny

Here's some more:

Iwata Takes Over Nintendo of America as Projected Earnings Fall Short

Spoiler

But with the PlayStation 4 and Xbox Infinity looming, how will Nintendo fare in 2013? As indicated, the company will likely showcase an arsenal of software this June at E3 2013, but will it be enough to distract console gamers away from the new hardware offered by rivals? There's a good chance the answer is no.

I really hope that my poll thread of wii u being another dreamcast does not hold true. Talk about being completely outclassed.

In other news:

Microsoft says: Next Xbox a “Real” Taste of the Future

 

[heidi2521]

Again a moot point. The list is FUD. There are no ARM chips in the PS4. Besides, the ram listing you gave is pretty old. GDDR5 ram prices has fallen since.
Even taking your total expenditure of $350 (round), if sony sells PS4 at $450, isn't there a profit of $100? The new ps eye btw is not low end. It comes with 2 cameras capable of 720p.
The move controller of ps3 is totally supported here with even better sensitivity.

PS4 price in UK; how much will the PlayStation 4 cost? - PC Advisor

The pricing maybe more or divided among different SKU's. Don't know about the exact profit amount ( only sony knows) but its certain that PS4 will
not sell at a loss like the PS3 did initially in per units sold.

Read the earlier link i gave. Its a very technical one comprising of 3 pages. It comes from ps4's lead architect "Mark Cerny" in an interview.

Posting it again:

PlayStation 4: The complete tech breakdown from Mark Cerny

Here's some more:

Iwata Takes Over Nintendo of America as Projected Earnings Fall Short


I really hope that my poll thread of wii u being another dreamcast does not hold true. Talk about being completely outclassed.

How is the list FUD?

I used lower end ARM chips and a low end webcam to estimate the cost of them. You might have noticed that i used $120 as an estimate instead of $150 to account for the drop in manufacturing cost. I never even mentioned move, so where does it come up
According to you the PSEye camera should increase the cost even more.

You may have missed this part of my statement so let me quote it here again:

This does not include the price of the Motherboard, PSU, Fans(I doubt it will be liquid cooled), Case, Packaging, Manuals, Assembly, Transport, Q.A., Customs, Licensing Fees(Codecs, HDCP compliance, patents etc.) and anything I may have missed and assumes that manufacturers will take minimal profit on products supplied(unlikely).

Unless you are assuming everything in the quoted statement will be provided to Sony for free, they will be exempt from licensing fees and customs and manufacturers won't try and make a profit off the PS4 parts i see no way it will be sold at a profit, let alone a profit of $100.

If you followed todays financial meet you see that Nintendo admitted that it has failed with the Wii U and there was a clear implication that the console will be put into the backburner until they can get software out for it and rebuild momentum for the console(Something Sony has failed to admit for the Vita). As i've explained in the poll thread, Nintendo is in an entirely different situation from Sega and the Wii U won't end up like the Dreamcast. Don't underestimate the brand appeal of Nintendo's franchises(Don't overestimate them either). Nintendo's policy of quality before deadlines is what screwed them over this launch. They have had only two Nintendo games out on the console and the next one won't come out until August. You don't expect a console to be driven on that, do you?

 

[vickybat]

^^ Don't spoil the thread mate. We will see if sony sells the PS4 at a profit or loss once its released and the prices are finalized.
80% people are saying it won't suffer a loss this time including top analysts. You say otherwise with completely off the charts speculation and FUD stuff.

Leave the profit/loss and sales discussion here and discuss technical material and post some useful news if possible. Will be quite helpful to this thread that way instead of getting locked for dubious arguments.

 

[heidi2521]

^^ Don't spoil the thread mate. We will see if sony sells the PS4 at a profit or loss once its released and the prices are finalized.
80% people are saying it won't suffer a loss this time including top analysts. You say otherwise with completely off the charts speculation and FUD stuff.

Leave the profit/loss and sales discussion here and discuss technical material and post some useful news if possible. Will be quite helpful to this thread that way instead of getting locked for dubious arguments.

Believe it or not, discussing whether a next-gen console will be sold at a profit or loss does count as Next-gen discussion.

Do name some "top analysts" who have said that the PS4 will be sold at a profit.

You claim my claims are FUD but don't explain why. How is my speculation off the charts?

If that claim is referring to my estimated prices, they are on the lower end rather than the higher.

When I claimed that Nintendo couldn't afford to take a $100-$200 loss per console, like M$ony can, you claimed that the PS4 would be sold at a profit(and a $100 at that). I was simply pointing out that it won't be and stood by and defended my claim.

TBQH, from my point of view it looks like you are simply trying to sidestep the discussion at this point.

 

[CommanderShawnzer]

^^ Don't spoil the thread mate. We will see if sony sells the PS4 at a profit or loss once its released and the prices are finalized.
80% people are saying it won't suffer a loss this time including top analysts. You say otherwise with completely off the charts speculation and FUD stuff.

Leave the profit/loss and sales discussion here and discuss technical material and post some useful news if possible. Will be quite helpful to this thread that way instead of getting locked for dubious arguments.

Dude,do your top anaylsts include Micheal Pachter ?

 

[heidi2521]

Dude,do your top anaylsts include Micheal Pachter ?

Pachter can be considered a 'top analyst'. You can safely assume that whatever he says will not be true, and chances are that the opposite will be true instead.

On topic:

Nintendo: Wii U has “lost momentum” due to release schedule - Gematsu

 

[vickybat]

Believe it or not, discussing whether a next-gen console will be sold at a profit or loss does count as Next-gen discussion.

Oh really. You some kind of a marketing guy or some marketing VP. Because all your posts in this forum are related to sales and stuff.

Do name some "top analysts" who have said that the PS4 will be sold at a profit.

Look it up yourself. Do some homework and don't expect to be spoon-fed all the time. Try analyzing and answering your own questions as of why
ps4 won't sell at a loss. Can you differentiate the differences between a motherboard/PCB and an SOC? If you can, you could know why PS4 is so much talked about.

You claim my claims are FUD but don't explain why. How is my speculation off the charts?

Oh your claims are indeed FUD and off charts. The reason is you don't read up and always after sales, marketing and PR stuff.
The PS4 isn't your conventional pc so that you can assemble parts and compare mindless prices. I also gave you an example in your own analogy that if the console's cost price is $350 , and the selling price is $450 ( huge possibility), isn't the profit going to be $100? If you can't understand simple maths, its your problem.

You fail to understand the difference between a motherboard and an SOC and thus you have crappy reasons. Do you know PS3 had a motherboard but PS4 has an SOC? It uses mobile parts including
the cpu and gpu. That's what that link i gave explains and much more. That explains the low cost. A mass produced custom SOC is way less to manufacture than you think with lower fabrication methods. This time its AMD and not IBM and the former is an expert in making low cost microprocessors. Outsourcing the main components from a single vendor is also financially cheap since the orders are in lot. Costs are easily covered.

PS3 was sold at a loss because sony spent too much in the development of cell and those parts were bulky ( had a 90nm fabrication) and were not mobile parts. It was a custom design and not off-shelf parts. It had an XDR memory sub-system. Do realize how expensive XDR was back then? It was not a common design like x86 is. How many times do i have to explain this? Cell could also do vertex shading, being a RISC cpu. It was a complex design and was very expensive to make in the early days. Don't judge industry by history.

Transistors used in an SOC are cheap, coz the overall material cost is low.

If that claim is referring to my estimated prices, they are on the lower end rather than the higher.

Your estimation charts are again FUD and completely off the charts. The APU you wrote are not part of the desktop apu's you see. Its a customized apu made in huge numbers and not for multiple OEM use as well. Its just for Sony.
Selling parts to multiple OEM's also has a hidden cost. Here, there are no such costs as parts are outsourced from a single vendor by a single company.
See, such discussions in this thread are definitely off-topic.

When I claimed that Nintendo couldn't afford to take a $100-$200 loss per console, like M$ony can, you claimed that the PS4 would be sold at a profit(and a $100 at that). I was simply pointing out that it won't be and stood by and defended my claim.

TBQH, from my point of view it looks like you are simply trying to sidestep the discussion at this point.

lol nintendo again. Nobody cares what they can afford or not. And about you defending your so called claim, i reckon it was complete rubbish.
If you can't understand the benefits of x86 hardware from a direct cost-cost perspective, let alone its real life coding advantages, its really a waste of time to argue with you.

And i never sidestep from any discussion.

Dude,do your top anaylsts include Micheal Pachter ?

No, not that moron. His analogies are bullsh!t these days.

 

[heidi2521]

Oh really. You some kind of a marketing guy or some marketing VP. Because all your posts in this forum are related to sales and stuff.




Look it up yourself. Do some homework and don't expect to be spoon-fed all the time. Try analyzing and answering your own questions as of why
ps4 won't sell at a loss. Can you differentiate the differences between a motherboard/PCB and an SOC? If you can, you could know why PS4 is so much talked about.



Oh your claims are indeed FUD and off charts. The reason is you don't read up and always after sales, marketing and PR stuff.
The PS4 isn't your conventional pc so that you can assemble parts and compare mindless prices. I also gave you an example in your own analogy that if the console's cost price is $350 , and the selling price is $450 ( huge possibility), isn't the profit going to be $100? If you can't understand simple maths, its your problem.

You fail to understand the difference between a motherboard and an SOC and thus you have crappy reasons. Do you know PS3 had a motherboard but PS4 has an SOC? It uses mobile parts including
the cpu and gpu. That's what that link i gave explains and much more. That explains the low cost. A mass produced custom SOC is way less to manufacture than you think with lower fabrication methods. This time its AMD and not IBM and the former is an expert in making low cost microprocessors. Outsourcing the main components from a single vendor is also financially cheap since the orders are in lot. Costs are easily covered.

PS3 was sold at a loss becase sony spent too much in the development of cell and those parts were bulky ( had a 65nm fabrication) and were not mobile parts. It was a custom design and not off=- shelf parts. It was not a common design like x86 is. How many times do i have to explain this?

You see, transistors used in an SOC are cheap, coz the overall material cost is low. There are lots of quad core mobile soc's as low as $10.





You estimation charts are again FUD and completely off the charts. The APU you wrote is not the desktop apu's you see. Its a customized apu made in huge numbers and not for OEM use as well.
Selling parts to OEM's also has a hidden cost. Here, there are no such costs as parts are outsourced.
See, such discussions in this thread are definitely off-topic.



lol nintendo again. Nobody cares what they can afford or not. And about you defending your so called claim, i reckon it was complete rubbish.
If you can't understand the benefits of x86 hardware from a direct cost-cost perspective, let alone its real life coding advantages, its really a waste of time to argue with you.

And i never sidestep from any discussion.



No, not that moron. His analogies are bullsh!t these days.

Back your claims up with citations. Why should I look to back your claims up, genius?

Claiming that I don't read up(I do) doesn't make my claims FUD or off the charts, genius.

Are you trying to imply that the PS4 is much talked about because of its SoC, genius?

The PS4 costs less to make than the PS3 initially did but it will also be sold for less("599 US Dollars"), genius.

And as I pointed out that is a simple, incomplete, extremely generous parts list that assumes that the suppliers won't try and make a profit on their products, genius.

$150(avg. price of an OEM APU in the same range as the PS4 one) > $100, genius.

Since we are discussing the price of a component of a next gen console it isn't off topic, genius.

Don't even try to claim that the PS4 will come without a cooling system, won't have a case ,won't be packed,will have no manuals , assembly will be done for free,it will magically transport itself from China/wherever it it made to around the world(for free), won't have any Q.A., customs won't be paid, patent licensing fees won't be paid, it won't be HDCP compliant and it won't have the ability to play popular codecs like MP3s etc. and that the suppliers won't try and make a profit off the parts the supply to Sony, genius.

 

[vickybat]

^^ Yawn....

Utter lol stuff. Grow up and learn to differentiate between a motherboard and an SOC.
No wonder your posts does not contain a single technical stuff but all PR material.

And finally, you admit that i'm a genius. And cooling system......:what now, is it gonna cost $100
No wonder you don't have a clue. And oh yes, you do read, i mean read PR stuff, sales charts and all that.

Oh... i really had a lot of fun. Nice.....

Ok back to news:

Nintendo Wii U Fails to Achieve Targets: 3.45 Million Units Sold During Launch Window.

You Can't Build A PS4: Why Sony's Next Console Is Truly Next-Gen And Your PC Isn't

Spoiler

Actually, I doubt it. Unlike your gaming rig, Sony’s CPU/GPU combo chip is much cheaper to manufacture. The heating solution for one chip is also cheaper, as is the fact that no operating system overhead exists. Indeed, all the parts—save for the RAM—should come at a pretty reasonable price. I’m not sure if Sony is taking a loss, but from what I’ve read it doesn’t appear to be the case—or at the very least, the loss won’t be dramatic. Then again, we don’t know the price of the machine yet, so this is guess work.

That's one view of an analyst. Do i have to name more.