Intel Sandy Bridge discussion

OP
V

Vishw

Journeyman
:banghead: I cant wait another month! Using Vue on my current config is torture! I feel like buying non K version of i7 2600!
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I was just looking at differences between three 2600 models Here & K version is missing some features:

Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d)
Intel® Trusted Execution Technology

Embedded Options Available

What are these? Any ideas?
 
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tkin

Back to school!!
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

@ tkin

Yeah you got that right again. Lets see what z68 brings to the table.

Offtopic discussion though. We should continue this in the "intel sandybridge released" thread.
That'll suck too, its coded in hardware, intel is showing off a pure software based method(lucid) to copy framebuffer into the memory and swapping it to transfer output between external and internal gpus, this will produce massive latency and bandwidth constraints, so Intel quick sync is a total fail.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

That'll suck too, its coded in hardware, intel is showing off a pure software based method(lucid) to copy framebuffer into the memory and swapping it to transfer output between external and internal gpus, this will produce massive latency and bandwidth constraints, so Intel quick sync is a total fail.


I don't think there will be a massive latency and bandwidth constraints. Lucid expects 1- 3% impact on performance so its not a total fail. Intel themselves might give a solution later taking into consideration quick sync's performance and output quality. Currently its the best.

Check this.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
:banghead: I cant wait another month! Using Vue on my current config is torture so I feel like buying non K version of i7 2600! Also I've got Crysis with me now, so I have to buy a decent card to play it in all its glory. Now pls suggest me which is the cheapest nVidia card that will run Crysis on U2311H with high enough settings? I don't want to run ultra high settings, only high enough to make it look pretty!

make a separate thread for your gfx card query.

I was just looking at differences between three 2600 models Here & K version is missing some features:

Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d)
Intel® Trusted Execution Technology

Embedded Options Available

What are these? Any ideas?

here you go :

Intel® Virtualization Technology (Intel® VT)
Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O

Malware Reduction - Intel® Trusted Execution Technology (Intel® TXT)

Now Embedded Options is little more tricky part :

CPUs with Embedded Option has greater lyfe cycle than normal cpus ie that cpu will be available for a longer period of time and you will also get technical support as well.. So cpus with Embedded Option are targeted mainly at the industrial use.

but all in all these other features don't matter much if someone can pair up a "K" series cpu with Z68 chipset based mobo.

In india there are less enthusastics like us. So I believe these ***** distributors who don't have any knowledge what Overclocking is are more inclined towards mainstream users instead of of enthusastics.

Or they are playing game that they want the demand of K series to increase so that they can sell those CPUs for premiuned price

^^ I think you are right but another reason can be they are waiting for Z68 chipset based mobos to be launched.
 
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OP
V

Vishw

Journeyman
make a separate thread for your gfx card query.
Done!
here you go :

Intel® Virtualization Technology (Intel® VT)
Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O

Malware Reduction - Intel® Trusted Execution Technology (Intel® TXT)

Now Embedded Options is little more tricky part :

CPUs with Embedded Option has greater lyfe cycle than normal cpus ie that cpu will be available for a longer period of time and you will also get technical support as well.. So cpus with Embedded Option are targeted mainly at the industrial use.

but all in all these other features don't matter much if someone can pair up a "K" series cpu with Z68 chipset based mobo.
Thanks for the links! About Embedded Options, "available for longer periods" means shelf life wise, right? means it'll be sold for longer periods by Intel? or does it means it will last longer than other models performance wise?

BTW, why are all your post mostly at early mornings? ;)
 

tkin

Back to school!!
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

I don't think there will be a massive latency and bandwidth constraints. Lucid expects 1- 3% impact on performance so its not a total fail. Intel themselves might give a solution later taking into consideration quick sync's performance and output quality. Currently its the best.

Check this.
Lucid said the same about their Hydra chips, you know how that turned out... anyway anyone knows the size of an uncompressed 1920x1080 frame?? They need to copy this data to the system ram from the GPU mem via the pcie bus, but if gpu is being used heavily(metro 2033/crysis) then this will impact performance heavily as the software needs to continuously copy the framebuffer into the memory, this will work for low end systems but with highend, specially cfx/sli systems the impact will be much higher, why can't intel just allow the EUs to be used by the cpu normally? There's always something with them
Also note that you'll lose overclockabilty with this setup(H67), so that's done for. This just allows you to use quick sync with another gpu.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

Lucid said the same about their Hydra chips, you know how that turned out... anyway anyone knows the size of an uncompressed 1920x1080 frame?? They need to copy this data to the system ram from the GPU mem via the pcie bus, but if gpu is being used heavily(metro 2033/crysis) then this will impact performance heavily as the software needs to continuously copy the framebuffer into the memory, this will work for low end systems but with highend, specially cfx/sli systems the impact will be much higher, why can't intel just allow the EUs to be used by the cpu normally? There's always something with them
Also note that you'll lose overclockabilty with this setup(H67), so that's done for. This just allows you to use quick sync with another gpu.

Buddy i just didn't understand one thing. When you are transcoding a video, why will you task the gpu with resource hog titles like metro2033/crysis? The gpu should remain idle so that copy takes place without a hitch.

You are saying that latency will occur when the cpu will fetch data from system memory and pass it to its eu's thrugh DMI but how much performance hit will it take? As i said earlier Z68 chipsets will allow cpu overclocking if that helps.

Please enlighten me even if this is a noob question.:)
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
Done!

Thanks for the links! About Embedded Options, "available for longer periods" means shelf life wise, right? means it'll be sold for longer periods by Intel? or does it means it will last longer than other models performance wise?

BTW, why are all your post mostly at early mornings? ;)

Yep, that means shelf life wise and yes, it will be sold for longer period by intel.

If you want to get a performance model then it should be a "K" series cpu anyway with Z68 chipset based mobo.

I wake up early in the morning ;)
 

tkin

Back to school!!
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

Buddy i just didn't understand one thing. When you are transcoding a video, why will you task the gpu with resource hog titles like metro2033/crysis? The gpu should remain idle so that copy takes place without a hitch.

You are saying that latency will occur when the cpu will fetch data from system memory and pass it to its eu's thrugh DMI but how much performance hit will it take? As i said earlier Z68 chipsets will allow cpu overclocking if that helps.

Please enlighten me even if this is a noob question.:)
Looks like you got a bit confused over this. Here's the detail:

First of all, to use lucid's solution your monitor needs to always be connected to Intel gfx port, that means when you are just playing games the lucid chip are transferring the framebuffer to the system memory(which intel uses as its graphics memory) from the GPU memory continuously, and the pcie buses are heavily used, this will effect the games, as games like metro require a lot of pcie bandwidth, doubly so for cfx/sli configs as they pretty much strain the pcie bus, also note the data is copied via cpu so this overhead will also decrease the available system memory bandwidth available to the game considerably, which will affect system performance.
As an uncompressed frame(1920x1080) is very large in size it requires a lot of memory bandwidth to transfer it to the system memory via the pcie bus(hence cpu), so the system memory as well as gpu memory performance will suffer under stressing games like metro 2033, crysis etc, this is the sole reason why modern CFX/SLI implementation bypasses the pcie bus and transfers the data via CFX/SLI fingers(bridges), this keeps the pcie bus free to the system and also has very small cpu overhead.
Hope this clears your idea about the technique.
But this will not affect the quicksync as the EUs are directly used and no need to copy the framebuffer, so no loss of performance when using quick sync, but loss of performance when using anything that utilizes the pcie bus heavily.


And this has nothing to do with z68 or overclocking, what I want is the exact opposite of this, allow us to use quicksync and copy the framebuffer FROM the quicksync memory(i.e system RAM) TO the gpu framebuffer, this will hurt quicksync performance but not much as when using quicksync the pcie bus is mostly free and will offer the performance in games, and also the monitor would be connected to the gpu output.
 

wangda dorjee

Right off the assembly line
hey, i am a 3d animator and do audio visual editing also ... my config. as of present is. processor - Intel Quad core GPU - PAlit ATI Radeon 3550 mobo - p35 diamond Hard disk - seagate 1tb ram - 2gb DDR3 ram as my system is a couple of years old i would like to upgrade... so that i have an exelent system for working on very heavy duty 3d works and rendering my 3d work and editing applications.. please advice me on the number of ram i need to procure, the processor and GPU i need to upgrade to... and if i need a rendering card... and the best buy in terms of rendering card... plz reply asap... i would be very much indebt for ur swift reply.. thank you

*** p.s. is it worth going for i7 780 or is i5760 enough for multi media.. best mobo supporting both i5 and i7
Last edited by wangda dorjee; Today at 04:26 PM. Reason: my budget would be around 30,000
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

Looks like you got a bit confused over this. Here's the detail:

First of all, to use lucid's solution your monitor needs to always be connected to Intel gfx port, that means when you are just playing games the lucid chip are transferring the framebuffer to the system memory(which intel uses as its graphics memory) from the GPU memory continuously, and the pcie buses are heavily used, this will effect the games, as games like metro require a lot of pcie bandwidth, doubly so for cfx/sli configs as they pretty much strain the pcie bus, also note the data is copied via cpu so this overhead will also decrease the available system memory bandwidth available to the game considerably, which will affect system performance.
As an uncompressed frame(1920x1080) is very large in size it requires a lot of memory bandwidth to transfer it to the system memory via the pcie bus(hence cpu), so the system memory as well as gpu memory performance will suffer under stressing games like metro 2033, crysis etc, this is the sole reason why modern CFX/SLI implementation bypasses the pcie bus and transfers the data via CFX/SLI fingers(bridges), this keeps the pcie bus free to the system and also has very small cpu overhead.
Hope this clears your idea about the technique.
But this will not affect the quicksync as the EUs are directly used and no need to copy the framebuffer, so no loss of performance when using quick sync, but loss of performance when using anything that utilizes the pcie bus heavily.


And this has nothing to do with z68 or overclocking, what I want is the exact opposite of this, allow us to use quicksync and copy the framebuffer FROM the quicksync memory(i.e system RAM) TO the gpu framebuffer, this will hurt quicksync performance but not much as when using quicksync the pcie bus is mostly free and will offer the performance in games, and also the monitor would be connected to the gpu output.

Absolutely got it this time. So in simple terms , doing any graphics heavy task involving a discrete gpu and using lucid's solution will affect system performance adversely. What everybody would want is a p67 platform able to utilize quicksync.

Really its a drawback. What if the upcoming z68 is like the p67 platform and doesn't have mobo dvi but still allows switchable graphics? As you said the pcie busses will be free but for quicksyc intel's eu's will be used & framebuffer will be copied to quicksync(intel graphics) memory. Is there a chance of it to occur?

Thanks a million buddy for the info.
 

tkin

Back to school!!
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

Absolutely got it this time. So in simple terms , doing any graphics heavy task involving a discrete gpu and using lucid's solution will affect system performance adversely. What everybody would want is a p67 platform able to utilize quicksync.

Really its a drawback. What if the upcoming z68 is like the p67 platform and doesn't have mobo dvi but still allows switchable graphics? As you said the pcie busses will be free but for quicksyc intel's eu's will be used & framebuffer will be copied to quicksync(intel graphics) memory. Is there a chance of it to occur?

Thanks a million buddy for the info.
I don't think so, the upcoming Z68 is like H67 with OC support(or P67 with onboard GPU Support), also it probably has external clock generator(still a rumor though).

Well, I want quick sync frame buffer to be copied into the GPU memory, so output will be at the GPU while the quick sync does the transcoding and produces a video output to be displayed at the monitor. Put it simply:
The best approach is to access quicksync just like nVidia physX cards, the quicksync EUs transcodes the video(just like PhysX card processes the Physics calculation), but video is outputted to the monitor via the main gpu output.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

I don't think so, the upcoming Z68 is like H67 with OC support(or P67 with onboard GPU Support), also it probably has external clock generator(still a rumor though).

Well, I want quick sync frame buffer to be copied into the GPU memory, so output will be at the GPU while the quick sync does the transcoding and produces a video output to be displayed at the monitor. Put it simply:
The best approach is to access quicksync just like nVidia physX cards, the quicksync EUs transcodes the video(just like PhysX card processes the Physics calculation), but video is outputted to the monitor via the main gpu output.

Well if quicksync gains poularity owing to the performance and quality it delivers, intel might just release a workaround the reverse way of what its currently giving.

Users might not mind a slight performance drop during quicksync transcode i.e when qs framebuffer is copied to discrete gpu framebuffer and monitor still plugged to discrete gpu.

We can't count out the possibility completely though now. Can we?
 

tkin

Back to school!!
Re: AMD HD 6950 and 6970 released

Well if quicksync gains poularity owing to the performance and quality it delivers, intel might just release a workaround the reverse way of what its currently giving.

Users might not mind a slight performance drop during quicksync transcode i.e when qs framebuffer is copied to discrete gpu framebuffer and monitor still plugged to discrete gpu.

We can't count out the possibility completely though now. Can we?
Intel is crap at making softwares, maybe 3rd part implementations like what lucid is doing, if intel enables this in hardware in ivy bridge then it'll be a killer, but for now, its no good.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Lets wait and watch this space & how well it proceeds. Maybe socket 2011 has an answer or we may get one before that.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Thats obvious. Bulldozer has to beat nehalems at all cost if it has any chance against sandybridge processors and socket 2011.
 

srch07

Journeyman
Any update on i5-2500 or i5-2500k?
Am tired of waiting.

Btw delta mailed me 2 ask if i was interested in prebooking of i7-2600k, which they will be bringing in next 2-3 weeks.
 
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