Windows is !easy, Linux is !hard

[krates]

Not windows Not linux

MAC IS THE BEST

Now stop the fight

 

[mediator]

Plz tell the thread started this thing.

I surrendered myself before u forget bt the thread then! Lets call for truce

 

[Cyrus_the_virus]

I didn't call anyone fanboy because of "you stick to windows" but because "linux users are wisest" kind of smug posts.
Regarding me calling all linux users of this forum fanboys, I was speaking in hyperbole since most of the posts are simply like that lately. It could be a reaction to fanboyish posts of windows users or mac users which again might be reaction to fanboying posts of linux users. This vicious cycle has to end somewhere.

So, are you saying that if you jump into a nest full of snakes and try to step on it ruthlessly that it should not bite you back?? *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/21.gif

1. complicated graphics driver installation.

If you haven't done enough searching around, the please try this if you are looking for a one click install!!
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74845

Many hardware have features which can be accessed only on windows using windows drivers. I know this is due to windows monoppoly, but that does add to difficulty ex: APC UPS, many printers' special features, soundcards's control panel. Support for USB modems is less compared to windows. 1 year back, I couldn't expect onboard sound to work on linux but now that has atleast changed.

Are we talking about ease of use or whining about unavailability??

2. in windows, k-lite mega codec pack contains encoders and decoders of most popular formats+ less common but still required formats. But linux codec packs are only most popular formats. I have to individually hunt for each and every codec and compile install them. K-lite codec pack also provides GUI control panel for many codecs and ffdshow can be used to changed lots of settings.

I don't really understand why is it that people install the base version using a CD and expect everything working on it out of the box?? If you haven't tried the studio version, then it's high time, it's got pretty much all the codecs that I can think of.

Again, what is your argument here? Because you don't have additional features with codecs in Linux, it's harder to use??? Again, are we talking about ease of use or whining about unavailability??

3. WMP11 supports both video and audio and has very good media library and it works with k-lite mega codec pack. Linux doesn't have such software yet. Amarok 2 will be having those features and will be available on windows too. If you know any media player which has popular+ less common codecs+ media library for video and audio please mention. I was also surprised that even VLC player on linux wasn't playing many of my videos. I will post the codec list later.

Again, are we talking about ease of use or whining about unavailability??

4. Fonts are a problem for browsing. I tried copying all fonts from windows to ubuntu and changed settings of opera linux to match windows opera settings. Still "O" has very visible holes in it. I am still working on rectifying this problem.

I don't really understand what your problem is? If you want everything to look like windows, then stop using Linux, and for the love of god, please stop your hard efforts to make Linux look like windows.

As far as Windows fonts installation is concerned, even after installing so many systems, I guess you haven't realized that this is not windows and it wont' work if you just copy paste the fonts!

5. Office 2007>openoffice.org in ease of use.

Just because you are used to MS Office doesn't make openoffice harder!

6. utorrent and other good windows programs are easier to use in windows than in wine. Its better to use a native program. Such programs need to be ported to linux.

Again, you are whining about unavailability than ease of use! If you are talking about ease of use, for the love of god, please compare them with native programs!

7. Lack of custom install: This is ubuntu only issue. During GUI install I dont get option to choose what to install. I dont even get to chose GRUB's default os and timer. I haven't found in any GUI way to change grub settings in the OS. I have to manually uninstall unwanted stuff and change menu.lst.

It's quite hard to believe that you say you been searching so much and can't find things, maybe you need to stop searching for windows type applications and search a bit more with an open mind.

Here's your GUI based GRUB!!
*grubconf.sourceforge.net/

I have been using real linux install trying to find a way to make linux better than or equal to windows (in features and quality atlteast, I can tolerate commands to a good extent),

Like I told, save your effort of trying to make Lindows!!

The moral of the story is that you and many other are so used to windows that you want everything to look feel and work like Windows. This is why Winboys hate MAC soooo much because it's so different from windows. The funny thing about these guys trying to work on linux is that, they have a lot more degree of control and customisation unlike MAC, and what do they do with all that customization? They first make their desktop look like a windows desktop, then they start to modifiy everything else to work like Winows!

I'm sorry guys, if you are looking for an alternate to Windows, then stop expecting it to work like Windows! The problem is that so many of you are so used to native windows apps that it's so hard for you to unlearn that app and learn a new one. This is the reason that we see most of them complaining that Openoffice is sooo much harder than MSOffice.

For those of you who have been working with linux for quite sometime will find pretty much everything easy. I'm sure adthiya can now easily run pretty much any command in the terminal, that's because he's used to it now. Similarly, windows users find everything easy because they are used to it. Everything you do today is easy for you regardless of whether it's computers or anything else in your life. If you try to learn something new, it's always difficult in the beginning, how much pain did we all go through learning to ride a bicycle after several hard tries, faling over, hurting ourselves.. but today it comes naturally so easily for us because we're used to it.

When people using windows look at linux, it seems so hard and difficult for them, but for those who've taken the ride and learnt from it, I can rightfully say that they haven't looked back.

As the great Cyrus_the_Virus once said or is saying: "Easiness comes with use"

Plz tell the thread started this thing.

The reason the thread was started is not to prove that Linux is easy but to dispell the myth "Linux is hard and windows is easy!"

 

[iMav]

cyrus try slacware all ur bull sh1t ur typing is based on ubuntu give some of the other 10 thousand different useless linux distros out thr a try

ubuntu is not equal to linux ur talking like the frog who thinks his pond is the whole world

windows being easy is not a myth it is easier and has been accepted by members and linux being hard aditya has proved our points of linux being stupid for day to day users

once again ubuntu is not equal to linux

 

[Cyrus_the_virus]

cyrus try slacware all ur bull sh1t ur typing is based on ubuntu give some of the other 10 thousand different useless linux distros out thr a try

ubuntu is not equal to linux ur talking like the frog who thinks his pond is the whole world

windows being easy is not a myth it is easier and has been accepted by members and linux being hard aditya has proved our points of linux being stupid for day to day users

once again ubuntu is not equal to linux

Thanks for enlightening me @imeov.

I respect your incompetence to understand the point.

 

[iMav]

I respect your incompetence to understand the point.

incompetence and u have a point

 

[praka123]

1.JFYI,"nvidia-settings" is a gui control panel.just apt-get install it.
apc ups :gapcmon - apcupsd monitor GUI

apcupsd - APC UPS Power Management (daemon)
apcupsd-cgi - APC UPS Power Management (web interface)

2.printers:yes,there may be lack of support.still,
*openprinting.org

3,4.reg media formats,most of the codecs are supported.make sure gstreamer plugins et al are installed

5.Fonts:you have to enable anti-aliasing.and the default Gnome-GUI seems to work with only xorg drivers.for nvidia users,u have to append below lines in ur /etc/X11/xorg.conf "device" section:
for eg; mine is below,add the underlined modlines:

Section "Device"
        Identifier      "nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7300 GT]"
        Driver          "nvidia"
        BusID           "PCI:1:0:0"
        Option          "AddARGBVisuals"        "True"
        Option          "AddARGBGLXVisuals"     "True"
        Option          "NoLogo"        "True"
        [U][B]Option          "UseEdidDpi"   "FALSE"[/B][/U]
        Option          "DPI"   "96 x 96"
EndSection

^that line was for setting dpi for my screen.and for fonts anti-aliasing:
Now,go to font preferences and press "details" option and make sure hinting is at "slight" or "medium".restart X and see.it works for me

5.Open Office is improving and the paid version may be even better(star office) also IBM Lotus notes is available in Linux now.

6.try deluge-torrent which is easy.though i am using Azureus

7.Ubuntu's Ubiquity GUI installer is for supported h/w's may be.but the alternate CD containing Debian installer with ncurses CLI gives all the options what ur referring to.

I have to say Linux is NOT windows holds true to you and your friends.dont expect alternate windows in Linux.that part may be the reason for ur disgruntlment.
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
I think most of the things u mentioned may be having solution.

 

[krates]

^^^ setting the screen resolution is custom work

I have 3 printer all are unsuppoted

Have you ever read there documentation *openprinting.org

it is easier to install windows and then print document and then uninstall it

and the linux fan boys are not ready to listen to truth

Windows is paid because it is much easier and easy to understand interface

i still remember the day when i have switched to linux and i have made

several query and after that i was handed over a link which was teaching

me linux is not windows WT*

Most of the company's offer windows with new computer because they too know that if they will hand linux to the buyer they will call them regularly asking thousands of questions

I agree that linux is also distributed but it is only distributed to lower the cost of comp

Now lemme tell you linux is free that is why it is used if it was paid then you must have thrown that os since ages

 

[adithyagenius]

@cyrus
how many times should I say unaivalability of easy to use programs for ubuntu is totally relevant. Unavailability of features is also relevant because these features convert multiple steps into one step which according me is making easier. Regarding downloading a tool to change my grub settings, I guess its better to use "sudo gedit menu.lst". I tried envy but wastes bandwidth for every install. better to use official drivers which can be downloaded once and share with everyone.
regarding studio version.. the codecs available along with it. Are they available as a separate package for standard ubuntu 7.1 users? I don't care about out of the box much. Even windows requires k-lite mega codec pack to be installed.

@everyone
I am not trying to make linux into windows. I am trying to make ubuntu 7.1 on my system into an OS with decent media player, good browsing experience and excellent support for codecs. You guys define such an OS as windows?
Regarding the explanation for why office 2007 is better than openoffice- In my last semester I had to do some reports and presentations. I have no experience in word processing or presentations except for making lion come and fart and go away. I spent 1 hour trying open-office org. I was spending more time searching trough boxes and menus. I tried office 2003 and it was the same. I got 3 trial version CDs from MS. Office 2007 was way too easy with learning curve of 5 mins. I got very high marks in my reports (highests in all) and presentations (highest and 2nd highest).

@praka
thanks. your answers seem to be the ones I haven't tried yet. I will try them out after shifting to hostel. I think I have enabled Anti aliasing using nvidia panel. I also change DPI settings to correct values and tried slight hinting. I dont know if the command-line method you have suggested is the round about way of doing it. But I will find out.
Good to know that openoffice.org is progressing. I hope foss guys come up with something noob friendly like office 2k7 without getting into patent issues.
I know of CLI based installation. but I felt its easier to do GUI installation and batch remove the useless stuff through add/remove GUI than to spend time typing and learning CLI. I was actually looking for a DVD version like Fedora guys give. It contains the development libraries and compilers and hence saves bandwidth. Ubuntu seems to be missing those and I have to download them everytime I reinstall.

 

[mediator]

^^^ setting the screen resolution is custom work

I have 3 printer all are unsuppoted

Have you ever read there documentation *openprinting.org

it is easier to install windows and then print document and then uninstall it

and the linux fan boys are not ready to listen to truth

Windows is paid because it is much easier and easy to understand interface

..

I agree. Probably the reason why VISTA is known to be a big flop and the crowd is moving to *nix!

Windows is paid because it is much easier and easy to understand interface

Most of the company's offer windows with new computer because they too know that if they will hand linux to the buyer they will call them regularly asking thousands of questions

You shud read Tarla Dalal instead of talking holy nuisance.

 

[x3060]

i thought the fight was over , and everything calmed down , but hell , i was wrong
i love a good fight .

 

[mediator]

I have no experience in word processing or presentations except for making lion come and fart and go away. I spent 1 hour trying open-office org. I was spending more time searching trough boxes and menus. I tried office 2003 and it was the same. I got 3 trial version CDs from MS. Office 2007 was way too easy with learning curve of 5 mins. I got very high marks in my reports (highests in all) and presentations (highest and 2nd highest).

I must say u r the chosen one! U had no experience in word processing or 'presentations' and u got highest and second highest? Its like our goddess Sonia became an ace in martial arts in one day and defeated brucelee the 2nd day. I thought u'd be experienced a lot to be able to enlighten us the differences in some convincing manner! WTH

 

[x3060]

ha ha hahahaha....

we are getting end of the year jokes here

 

[adithyagenius]

I must say u r the chosen one! U had no experience in word processing or 'presentations' and u got highest and second highest? Its like our goddess Sonia became an ace in martial arts in one day and defeated brucelee the 2nd day. I thought u'd be experienced a lot to be able to enlighten us the differences in some convincing manner! WTH

Unfortunately no college-mate of mine is here to confirm my marks. If you think open-office.org is easier than office 2k7 to a total newcomer, you are one of the special cases.
I just read your link. I had issues with files stored in doc format I downloaded from govt sites. Although they could be put in html or txt, they used doc. Need spread awareness about propriety format.

 

[x3060]

honestly , for me , notepad is the easiest one..
my typing needs are restricted to notepads.
and if i had to i use abby word.., well , i don't do write ups or presentations.

 

[mediator]

Unfortunately no college-mate of mine is here to confirm my marks. If you think open-office.org is easier than office 2k7 to a total newcomer, you are one of the special cases.

U don't need to whine bt ur marks. You can enter any fictitious number though! I wud still believe you.
I Just asked differences as I thought u'd be an expert since u opined so confidently that Office 2k7 > OOO. Sorry for being a special case and thinking of u as an office literate who I guess can become an expert in any field, in any time and wheneva he wants. I dint say OOO > 2k7 did I? So please don't hallucinate unnecessarily!

 

[adithyagenius]

honestly , for me , notepad is the easiest one..
my typing needs are restricted to notepads.
and if i had to i use abby word.., well , i don't do write ups or presentations.

I actually planned to write my report in notepad. But my technical report writing teacher was visiting faculty from ICFAI business school HYD. She wanted various levels of headings, with various indentations and lots of minute details. Each visual aid had to be labeled.. you get the idea.

 

[praka123]

@adithya:this is NOT for you:
learning curve:for a pro-fanatic windows user,Linux usage is nothing but whining for every feature of windows.I feel dont look at the clean Ubuntu or Fedora Gnome Desktop.instead,try learning the new operating system.give ur one week or two trying to stick with a user friendly distro like Ubuntu,Fedora etc.and not but the least,be prepared to use Terminal bash shell for any fixup's which needs using terminal.google for a shell intro.hardly 6 or 7 commands u need to remember.all commands are auto-completed by pressing TAB key after typing few words.

the term Linux is NOT Windows make sense,as people who are windows blinded can not stop expecting windowish behaviour from Linux!hence the link i gave is helpful!

 

[adithyagenius]

U don't need to whine bt ur marks. You can enter any fictitious number though! I wud still believe you.
I Just asked differences as I thought u'd be an expert since u opined so confidently that Office 2k7 > OOO. Sorry for being a special case and thinking of u as an office literate who I guess can become an expert in any field, in any time and wheneva he wants. I dint say OOO > 2k7 did I? So please don't hallucinate unnecessarily!

I never said I am expert in office. For quickly getting work done without doing crash course office 2k7 is easy. I didn't get marks for word processing, y subjects were technical report writing and heritage of india. I dont know if ooo has more features, but office 2k7 had all the features lableled and accessible.

 

[infra_red_dude]

I need the control panel like the one that comes with windows called NVIDIA Control Panel allowing me change basic settings.

You mean something like this?

*gentoo-portage.com/up_img/img_800px/1848.png

or this:

*www.feckoff.net/stuff/ati.png

This vicious cycle has to end somewhere.

I appreciate your patience and the level of your hope

I just wanted to post the other side of coin for benefit of windows users curious about linux. I just want them to be mentally prepared for issues or just stick to windows.

I agree with this. I've had a tough time getting Ubuntu on my friend's desktop. I could somehow install it but with some features disabled.

I also had a tough time installing Windows XP on an Acer laptop recently. Rather I couldn't install it, no matter what. Finally I asked my uncle to dump XP!

Both OS' haf their pros and cons... the easiness and the troublesome days.

and 3rd thread for firefox extensions having opera features, I got help from windows users.

I dunno about your other threads since you hafnt mentioned them but the 3rd one (mentioned above) is not a GNU/Linux specific thread at all.

lack of good software for personal needs also adds to difficulty.

I'd rephrase the sentence and put it as:

Lack of good software for Professional needs adds to the difficulty.

1. complicated graphics driver installation.

nVidia has the easiest driver installation, imho. At least in all the places I've installed its been so. Even ATi has a bit complicated proc., the time when we need to select the driver for older ATi hardware. You can't use the new one with older hardware. No such problem with nVidia. No confusion, straight installation.

APC UPS,

I'd suggest that all the UPS control software be Java based, just like Leibert UPS has.

many printers' special features,

Like?

soundcards's control panel

True.

Support for USB modems is less compared to windows.

I'd say its not less, its NIL!

1 year back, I couldn't expect onboard sound to work on linux but now that has atleast changed.

Companies will release drivers if users start using it. Companies wait for users to adopt Linux and users wait for companies to release drivers. Anyone got a solution for this deadlock???

2. in windows, k-lite mega codec pack contains encoders and decoders of most popular formats+ less common but still required formats. But linux codec packs are only most popular formats. I have to individually hunt for each and every codec and compile install them.

Could you explain which codecs are you talking about? I haf no difficulty in playing the most popular and the non-so popular ones too!

K-lite codec pack also provides GUI control panel for many codecs and ffdshow can be used to changed lots of settings.

True, Linux lacks this kinda config.

3. WMP11 supports both video and audio and has very good media library and it works with k-lite mega codec pack. Linux doesn't have such software yet. Amarok 2 will be having those features and will be available on windows too. If you know any media player which has popular+ less common codecs+ media library for video and audio please mention.

WMP is a mature product which provides all in one interface. While I personally dislike WMP but I must say the integration is good.

4. Fonts are a problem for browsing. I tried copying all fonts from windows to ubuntu and changed settings of opera linux to match windows opera settings. Still "O" has very visible holes in it. I am still working on rectifying this problem.

Agreed and I've posted this issues to the Ubuntu development. Meanwhile, if you wish you can try the font enhancing guide in Mac4Lin.

5. Office 2007>openoffice.org in ease of use.

I disagree. I say Office 2007 = Openoffice.org in ease of use, Office 2007 > OOo in features; Mebbe you are clarify your point by giving some explaination?

6. utorrent and other good windows programs are easier to use in windows than in wine. Its better to use a native program. Such programs need to be ported to linux.

I disagree again. Using wine doesn't mean that uTorrent has some features disabled! I can do everything in uTorrent in Linux running via wine. Heck, uTorrent provides support to Linux users too!!!

But if you are not happy with it, I'd suggest you try Deluge with plugins. Its a feature rich bit-torrent client.

7. Lack of custom install: This is ubuntu only issue. During GUI install I dont get option to choose what to install. I dont even get to chose GRUB's default os and timer. I haven't found in any GUI way to change grub settings in the OS. I have to manually uninstall unwanted stuff and change menu.lst.

Agreed. Its a drawback. The reason why this was implemented is that everybody complained of a lot of clicks while installing.

However, imho, a more logical way of dealing with this problem would've been inclusion of 2 options: Typical and Custom modes while installing with Typical being the default.