The Final Debate....

What Should be done with the Nueclear deal?

  • Withdraw it immediately

    Votes: 8 12.5%
  • Sign it immediately

    Votes: 47 73.4%
  • Get the topic to a mass INDIA poll

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • !!! I AM SO DUMP TO TELL IT !!!

    Votes: 6 9.4%

  • Total voters
    64
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kumarmohit

Technomancer
Oooh Dams, I just love dams. They are so huge and all!

Only thing is we can not have dams everywhere, Rajasthan Anyone and please go recite the Dam puran in front of the Sardar Sarovar activists, they will surely give you a piece of their minds!
 

nix

Senior Member
hmm.. the member aberforth... he seems to be the member of some site call abytheliberal. am not sure if he is a member or owner/contributor or just a reader, but his signature contradicts all the liberal talk that is mentioned in the site in his profile. his signature is as follow:


"Islam is the religion of peace. Watch your mouth when you talk about our prophet or we'll kill you."

now that sounds more like an extremist...
 

Aberforth

The Internationalist
I have already asked you twice but will repeat again for your sake. Before jumping in to reply, Read the posts carefully will you?
My repeated reading of the same posts again and again is not going to allviate your problem of being unable to comprehend what the argument is about.

As for comparion of Sukhoi's and MRCA's, I merely said that there are two US jets as contenders for MRCA deal but it was you who jumped first to reply this:
Actually the talk was all about attack jets when you, who is unable to differentiate between MRCAs and attack jets jumped into it with argument about the MRCA deal. Perhaps the irony of stepping on your own toes isn't lost on you. :)

In reply to this, I just said "I dont know what are you talking about" BECAUSE I couldn't understand why you chose to bring these two aircrafts in discussion when the point in question was the MRCA deal.
The point was about the attack fighter deal, not MRCA deal. You jumped in about the MRCA, hours after I first raised the point about how India had to pass the offer of F-15 because of the accompanied politico-military baggage.

But it was you who first made the comparision and not me. Hope you got that clear...
I made the comparison for you because from your words, it appeared you were unable to make the distinction between the roles of attack fighters and MRCA fighters. I know military aviation through and through to be aware of the difference, my work deals in a field that requires extensive understanding of military and their role in geopolitics.

And as for that Sukhoi deal, if the govt wanted Sukhois it would have amended the existing deal (of 140 jets and ToT) for additional aircrafts. Its for a reason that the RFPs for MRCA is being issued.
The government still wants Sukhoi and it isn't getting replaced anytime soon. India has finalised a deal of 40 additional Su-30s in Februrary 2007 and plans to induct at least 230 Sukhois by 2014. There is no export grade Sukhoi MRCA in production at present and the Indian government doesn't owe such a brand loyalty to Sukhoi Industries as to replace the Jaguar and Mirage-2000 multi-role jets with attack fighters.

Can you mention the source from which you got this info?
Its a calculation I did where the fuel price, heavy water price, waste disposal, risk insurance and employee costs of Kalapakkam nuclear facility is divided by the electricity output for a period of 30 years. I would have posted the specifics, if only I had the time and space.

So BJP is the party with more political will, eh?
BJP is a party that is more nationalist than the Congress, not one which has stronger political will. Political will represents the ability of a ruling government or opposition to have something done despite strong opposition and it isn't the forte of any Indian political party. The BJP authorised the Shakti tests to make a political statement and fulfill its nationalist agenda, which turned out to be beneficial for Indians in the long run, if the India's position at the geopolitical arena is of any concern. The only time any Indian party had a strong political will, it was Indira Gandhi's INC when she was in power.

[sarcasm] ....releasing terrorists make us look like a soft state. Maybe we should nuke all those terrorist camps.:D[/sarcasm]
That sarcasm doesn't get me as unlike you, I am not strictly aligned to a political school of thought or a party. I support ideas that I find reasonable, not what a NNN political ideology wants me to support.

hmm.. the member aberforth... he seems to be the member of some site call abytheliberal. am not sure if he is a member or owner/contributor or just a reader, but his signature contradicts all the liberal talk that is mentioned in the site in his profile. his signature is as follow:

"Islam is the religion of peace. Watch your mouth when you talk about our prophet or we'll kill you."

now that sounds more like an extremist...
You seemed to be among the few here who could spot the contradiction, yet you fail to spot the satire. A harbinger of the 'religion of peace' wanted my address so that he could chop off my head, all because I suggested that Muhammad exhibited and acted on his paedophilia by marrying at 9 year old kid during his 50s.
 
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k6153r

Broken In
I TOO OPPOSE IT.

Nuclear energy is not the only alternate, it can be disasterous.
Solar energy, biogas, and various other types of alternate energy sources must be given importance, and nuclear expertise can be used for the country's defence.
 

karnivore

in your face..
Aberforth said:
I made the comparison for you because from your words, it appeared you were unable to make the distinction between the roles of attack fighters and MRCA fighters. I know military aviation through and through to be aware of the difference, my work deals in a field that requires extensive understanding of military and their role in geopolitics.
The point was, if India is doing the right thing in putting her eggs in the US basket and if it would "hamper our national security." We surely don't have your "extensive understanding of military", but some of us are aware of geo-socio-eco politics.

The distinction was irrelevant, because, the point stands irrespective of the type of, lets say, combat aircraft. Yes India did not buy F-15s, but she has not yet dismissed her options on other US jets and if accepted, then these jets would form the backbone of Indian Air Force. And since you have "extensive understanding of military", you do realise what that would mean. Also, remember, the AWACS', that India is getting from Isreal, are because of a US nod. Not to mention, the Prat & Whitney engines, that India uses to power up her indigenous LCA, named Tejas, or the electronics, that will be purchased from Isreal, all some way or the other require a nod of the Big Brother.
Aberforth said:
Its a calculation I did where the fuel price, heavy water price, waste disposal, risk insurance and employee costs of Kalapakkam nuclear facility is divided by the electricity output for a period of 30 years. I would have posted the specifics, if only I had the time and space.
Space, my dear friend, you have in plenty. Time, is of course, at a premium. However, being professionally trained in this field of determining costs etc. you have my full attention.

Can you please first refer me to any on-line database from where you got your cost references.Then, if you have time, answer these questions, because Mr Google is telling me a different story than you are:
- How do know the effective capacity of the yet to be built nuclear power plants ?
- How do you know at what price, India is going to acquire the unenriched fuel ?
- How did you arrive at the price of heavy water, waste disposal etc.? Did you take into consideration, the expected change in market scenerio due to the new contract ? If so, how and on what basis ?
- How did you arrive at the cost of risk insurance ?
- Did you take into consideration, the dismantling cost, terminal value etc. ?
- Why did you take 30 year as over all life ? Why not 50 yrs ? And while taking the life cycle, did you consider the potential of increasing the life after repairing, extension etc. ?

There are many other questions I have on mind. May be later.
Aberforth said:
BJP is a party that is more nationalist than the Congress, not one which has stronger political will. Political will represents the ability of a ruling government or opposition to have something done despite strong opposition and it isn't the forte of any Indian political party. The BJP authorised the Shakti tests to make a political statement and fulfill its nationalist agenda, which turned out to be beneficial for Indians in the long run, if the India's position at the geopolitical arena is of any concern. The only time any Indian party had a strong political will, it was Indira Gandhi's INC when she was in power.
Since your field involves geo-politics, I guess you know that overt nationalism leads to fascism. Can you please mention, which of the "something' did BJP do, other than revision of histroy, "despite strong opposition".

I do not know how Shakti benefited India in the long run, because, if I remember correctly, hundreds of important civilian projects got delayed because of the mass ban, which was lead, not by US, but by Japan. Yes, we do have a proper nuke, but other than that, what else did we achieve ?

Yes, why not, lets have another Indira Gandhi and another dictator. After all its nationalism that matters. Everything else can go to hell
 
OP
H

hsr

.
OFFTOPIC:Hey is this a religious war or some CRYSIS ? man, youre supposed to be debating not fighting...
 

nix

Senior Member
You seemed to be among the few here who could spot the contradiction, yet you fail to spot the satire. A harbinger of the 'religion of peace' wanted my address so that he could chop off my head, all because I suggested that Muhammad exhibited and acted on his paedophilia by marrying at 9 year old kid during his 50s.

yeah, i failed to notice that.. but that was a good one...
 

nikhil

Broken In
This deal can work in India's favour. It will reduce our dependancy on oil which is in limited quantity and the oil producing countries have a monoply on it. Besides pesuing this nuclear deal, we should also explore other alternative energy options to fully exploit the natures bounty without being dependend on one source.
 

nix

Senior Member
today BJP MLAs have shown money offered to them by Samajwadi party. everyday , the indian politics stoops to new lows, breaking the previous record low. and i dare not speak against sonia gandhi or rahul gandhi. otherwise i will be jailed.
the whole world will be laughing at us. esp china. we should stop comparing ourself to china.
and amitabh bachchan, the one whom we call the "legend" is far from that. he is just another actor who exists solely for his benefit. he is very close to samajwadi party.

am just so disappointed with this system. india needs rule of iron hand...
 

praka123

left this forum longback
a big kalank to India :( . sure ,congress may have offered crores of rupees.still....

left want to show support to china ,while right(UPA) is too much obediant and desparate for paramaanu treaty :x
 

Plasma_Snake

Indidiot
Indian Politics and Politicians are destroying the nation which is standing feebly on the shoulders of few Engineers,Doctors and Armed Forces. politicians are ready to bribe guys Rs.25 Crore, become America's ***** and even spend 10 crore per inspection which is to be held 20 times a year, all for a source of power that is going to be ousted by 2030. I say that even if 25% of this money is spent on Indian Scientists and Engineers, we can and will deliver a Thorium based Nuclear Reactor to utilise the abundant Thorium which lies waste in the sea sand of states like Kerela and TamilNadu. :x
 

iNFiNiTE

The cake is a lie!!!
Even if the confidence vote was on the nuclear deal issue, its obvious that none of the parties had the interest of the nation as its concern. The manner in which all parties were trying to bribe MPs from the other side is really sick.:mad:

Also, a deal which is of so importance to the future of the nation either way, is left to be decided on the votes of few MPs who were either in prisons or were having criminal records.:(
 

Plasma_Snake

Indidiot
Well, results just came;
253, In favor of Deal and 232 against it, Congress pulled it off. :razz:
Imagine if Lok Sabha preceding are co-ordinated by Thinkdigit forum MODS, I bet its gonna be an empty house coz Ministers ain't gonna behave and Mods ain't gonna bat an eyelash to Kick 'em out literally. :D
 

skeletor

Chosen of the Omnissiah
Even if the confidence vote was on the nuclear deal issue, its obvious that none of the parties had the interest of the nation as its concern. The manner in which all parties were trying to bribe MPs from the other side is really sick.:mad:

Also, a deal which is of so importance to the future of the nation either way, is left to be decided on the votes of few MPs who were either in prisons or were having criminal records.:(
Well, thats the Indian political system......These f|_|(king MPs are playing "Aayaram - Gayaram".....This No-confidence thing seriously needs to be amended.....

Anyways, the main aim for the MPs who voted NO was to make the Government fall, not to see the benefit of the nation.
 

praka123

left this forum longback
another election ,how many million rupees ? :(( not to say that the country's economy etc will go down.
 

narangz

Web developer
Congratulations to Mr. Manmohan Singh. Now I am waiting for the deal to get thorough & economic reforms by the great economist & the visionary- Mr. Singh.

Thank God, the central govt. got rid of those communists :x
 
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