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iNFiNiTE
The cake is a lie!!!
Though India found deposits of Uranium in North-East, it would take lot of time to develop those into proper mines, considering that all present protests against the mines from the local tribals are pacified. A little info on that here
And as for the case of Thorium, reactor design challenges and a Cold War-era interest in using nuclear waste byproducts in atomic bombs pushed the industry to use uranium as its primary fuel.
Our country has announced that it would begin testing the safety of a design of its own. But then again this would take lot of time. Thorium usage is good as it produces lesser byproducts. You can read more here
And as for the case of Thorium, reactor design challenges and a Cold War-era interest in using nuclear waste byproducts in atomic bombs pushed the industry to use uranium as its primary fuel.
Our country has announced that it would begin testing the safety of a design of its own. But then again this would take lot of time. Thorium usage is good as it produces lesser byproducts. You can read more here
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mayanks_098
world is evil
+1 in favour
We need the deal if we want power which is ever important for developing India.
Think,do these bloody politicians know better than hon Mr APJ Abdul Kalaam? (& other scientists)
We need the deal if we want power which is ever important for developing India.
Think,do these bloody politicians know better than hon Mr APJ Abdul Kalaam? (& other scientists)
utsav
damn busy...
I am tempted to support the nuc deal.but at the same time ,concerned about USA gonna make us their puppets
are'nt we puppets right now too if u think the othr way ?¿ 90% + of indian sites r hosted on us servers . What if us govt makes a law that indian sites r not allowed on us servers
. Am not joking .just think abt my point. Its just a 1 point.
Indyan
Here Since 2003
Definitely yes.
The major worry is that the US may force India to change its stance regarding the Iran issue. But, that wont happen. Why?
Politics. The muslim vote bank is cruicial to every party. If the indian gov goes against Iran and toys the US line of thought then the ruling part is sure to loose a significant chunk of the muslim vote bank and no party is so dumb.
Next up, the deal statement doesnt include anything specific regarding foreign policy that would allow US to force India's hand.
No.
The major worry is that the US may force India to change its stance regarding the Iran issue. But, that wont happen. Why?
Politics. The muslim vote bank is cruicial to every party. If the indian gov goes against Iran and toys the US line of thought then the ruling part is sure to loose a significant chunk of the muslim vote bank and no party is so dumb.
Next up, the deal statement doesnt include anything specific regarding foreign policy that would allow US to force India's hand.
afonofa
Journeyman
I think it will be more beneficial in the very near future for obtaining uranium for our current reactors and fast tracking our knowledge about the tech required to fully utilize it. Hopefully in the next 20-30 years we can expect our Fast Breeder Reactor tech to be fully operational and we can then rely on our thorium deposits for our power needs. (India has atleast 30% of the world's known thorium deposits)
I don't think it's stupid to comment on the N-deal. If I don't know about something, then I want to talk about it, share opinions and in the process maybe learn something. Lack of details isn't going to stop me from sharing my views but a lack of sharing my views is definitely going to stop me from learning.
The BJP maybe sees a chance of coming to power in the next election and maybe they want to keep a window open, if they bad mouth the deal too much now they won't be able to explain why they went ahead with the deal and show off that they did the right thing for the country...who knows!
Even if China isn't supporting the Left parties, the Left are anyway doing everything the Chinese would have wanted them to. The Left's idealogy is different from the Congress, but aren't they still Indian
What I don't understand is what can the Left possibly hope to gain by trying to make sure China stays a step ahead of India, which is what will be if we don't sign this deal. If they are so pro-China, they should just go live there!
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[*]India must stand up to the world.
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[*]Because I believe that unless India stands up to the world, no one will repect us.
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[*][B][SIZE="2"][U]Only Strength respects strength.[/U][/SIZE][/B]
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[*]We must be strong not only as a military power but also as an economic power.
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[*]Both must go hand-in-hand.
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Dr. APJ Abdul KalamAgreed. It's also not just power generation which will get a boost by this N-deal. There are other sectors where India's progress has been lagging directly/indirectly because of our nuclear isolation from the rest of the world. Supercomputing is one such sector. The tech in this sector is dual-use(civil and military). It can be used to further India's nuclear weapons programme and hence(thanks to the USA) we are isolated from the rest of the world in this respect. After the N-deal a lot of the dual-use tech that India finds tough to acquire or develop will be much more easily available.
The N-deal is off if later on India conducts a nuclear test(Pokhran style KABOOM!!) but with supercomputers and the data from the Pokhran tests, we may never need to conduct further nuclear tests to refine our nukes(nuclear explosion simulation). Yea they are going to put in place safeguards to make sure that India doesn't use dual-use tech to further its nuclear weapons programme but they also had all their spy satellites and they had absolutely no clue that India was going to conduct a nuclear test when we did. They even believe that AQ Khan was running his nuclear proliferation network without the Musharraf govt. knowing about it.
So it will be difficult but not impossible to further our nuclear weapons programme after the deal. With respect to supercomputers or other cutting edge technology, even without anybody's help, we will eventually catch up with the rest of the world, but in today's world, who has the time to wait for that eventuality? Not India and certainly not her people. I don't want to be a 100 years old before I see my country at par with the rest of the world.
On a side note, permanent membership of the UN Security Council was offered to India first and when we(Pandit Nehru) declined, it went to China. The 5 permanent members have the right to veto major decisions of the UN. Now China has the power(and exercised it) to veto India's inclusion as UNSC permanent member. In the past China has already been offered a similar nuclear deal and accepted it. Should India make the same mistake again?
After the deal, once we can acquire nuclear fuel for our reactors from abroad, we can use our own uranium resources to boost our nuclear weapons arsenal(I support a minimum credible nuclear deterrent). Nobody in their right mind is going to go to war with a country possesing nukes and then take out that country's nuclear reactors.
What if greenhouse gases released by our bikes and cows(methane) cause global warming and melt the polar icecaps?...Let's trade in our bikes for horses and stick a cork in those cows!
What if women play hard to get?...Let's switch to the other option and stop trying to mate!
What if someone hijacks a plane and flies it into a skyscraper?!...Let's stop reaching for the sky and go live in underground caves
If you read through all of that then you know what voted for in the poll
The_Devil_Himself
die blizzard die! D3?
^^nice post.Exactly the point that need to be understood--Nuclear weapons development is futile anyways,just a show off while nuclear power is the need of the hour.A Nuke war will still end up with all or most of us killed even if we have what we have currently or some more advanced weapons,I hope you guys get my point,WW3 is the end of homo sapiens if it ever happens.
We still depend on coal for a major chunk of our electricity produced,while some countries like France uses nuclear reactors for as much as 80% of their total power needs iirc.Nuclear reactors are far more compact,powerful,cleaner,and cheaper after initial set-up costs.And oh yes far more reliable unlike the same old process of boiling water,:S.
on a side note:UN is nothing but a defunct piece of sh!t after the Iraq war and nobody gives a **** about it anymore,it has lost its credibility completely.
We still depend on coal for a major chunk of our electricity produced,while some countries like France uses nuclear reactors for as much as 80% of their total power needs iirc.Nuclear reactors are far more compact,powerful,cleaner,and cheaper after initial set-up costs.And oh yes far more reliable unlike the same old process of boiling water,:S.
on a side note:UN is nothing but a defunct piece of sh!t after the Iraq war and nobody gives a **** about it anymore,it has lost its credibility completely.
iNFiNiTE
The cake is a lie!!!
@afonofa: Nice post.
Also, the fact remains that if the deal isn't done, there isn't much chance that some future US govt. will bother to do the deal again. And even if it does, it will be too little, too late by then.
Not to forget the credibility of our Nation is at stake. You just dont sign up an agreement and say later that Sorry, you can't keep it up. If the left is so worried about the deal, why did it even let the agreement get signed in the first place? Why not pull out of govt then itself? It's just that most political parties are playing a game of their benefit, like Left alienating itself from Govt.'s failure to reduce prices etc and BJP keeping its option open for future.
Also, the fact remains that if the deal isn't done, there isn't much chance that some future US govt. will bother to do the deal again. And even if it does, it will be too little, too late by then.
Not to forget the credibility of our Nation is at stake. You just dont sign up an agreement and say later that Sorry, you can't keep it up. If the left is so worried about the deal, why did it even let the agreement get signed in the first place? Why not pull out of govt then itself? It's just that most political parties are playing a game of their benefit, like Left alienating itself from Govt.'s failure to reduce prices etc and BJP keeping its option open for future.
As far as i an concerned the nuclear deal is going to be a big mistake. 123 rule as it is called states that it has the complete right to intervene even in india's military nuclear affairs. Also they supply 97 tec and they use 08 . It is a pity that we get the leftover. It can be a solution for a moment but will result in a catastrophe. The ones who supported the other will blame it. America is a great a$$hole. That shows the withdrawal of the iran india natural gas deal. This is why i oppose it.
The_Devil_Himself
die blizzard die! D3?
finally someone has done his homework.
AL they want is that India keep informed them their military nuclear projects aka nuke weapons(In short means India should keep their nuke weapon development as minimal levels and no more pokhrans) which IS NOT AT ALL a big deal considering they will be supplying(directly or indirectly) most of our nuclear fuel,so they have every fuking right to know how are we using it(no nuclear fuel-->no nuclear weapons anyways).And why are people so pissed about 'Us can withdraw the deal whenever they want' thing? I have something,I dont want to give\sell it to someone else,Its my fuking decision!.
Think rationally and you will understand,this is not a deal in the right sense but alms given by US just to have a powerful friend in the asian region,heck they are even changing their own laws for this for long term advantages.Mutualism at its best.
why the fuk are left opposing it?well,thats why they are called the opposition.Multiparty system has many flaws and this is one of them(no absolute govt.).I am sure left parties would have went on with the deal had they been in power.All the politics is vote politics in India,termites eating up the inner fabric of India.
On side notesokharn used plutonium which is nowhere near uranium iirc,also called dirty bombs.
North Korea said,very well in advance,that it WILL conduct nuclear test on 8th oct.,2006.Every country cried foul(lame threats like "we will stop our food supplies","no more financial alms","total boycott from international politics").Not surprisingly North Korea shoved the nuclear test up the world's arse right on the date they specified becoming the eighth nation with nuke arsenal.
AL they want is that India keep informed them their military nuclear projects aka nuke weapons(In short means India should keep their nuke weapon development as minimal levels and no more pokhrans) which IS NOT AT ALL a big deal considering they will be supplying(directly or indirectly) most of our nuclear fuel,so they have every fuking right to know how are we using it(no nuclear fuel-->no nuclear weapons anyways).And why are people so pissed about 'Us can withdraw the deal whenever they want' thing? I have something,I dont want to give\sell it to someone else,Its my fuking decision!.
Think rationally and you will understand,this is not a deal in the right sense but alms given by US just to have a powerful friend in the asian region,heck they are even changing their own laws for this for long term advantages.Mutualism at its best.
why the fuk are left opposing it?well,thats why they are called the opposition.Multiparty system has many flaws and this is one of them(no absolute govt.).I am sure left parties would have went on with the deal had they been in power.All the politics is vote politics in India,termites eating up the inner fabric of India.
On side notes
okharn used plutonium which is nowhere near uranium iirc,also called dirty bombs.North Korea said,very well in advance,that it WILL conduct nuclear test on 8th oct.,2006.Every country cried foul(lame threats like "we will stop our food supplies","no more financial alms","total boycott from international politics").Not surprisingly North Korea shoved the nuclear test up the world's arse right on the date they specified becoming the eighth nation with nuke arsenal.
kumarmohit
Technomancer
Needless to say that the Koreans did it using the technology given to them by their commie chinese neighbors.
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
@Devil: I think that clause was cleared out. The weaponry facility and the domestic use facilities have to be kept separate. Not really sure though, but the agreement says that the uranium got under the agreement cannot be used for military purposes.
If we keep US's personal interests aside for a moment 'cause I am not really sure of the intricacies of the deal, India right now is under a lot of restrictions for Uranium trade and use. This deal shall open up those doors as India gets IAEA and other international clearances for Uranium trade and use, which IMO is good.
Secondly, I don't think that any govt. would risk itself for such a non-political issue. The nuclear deal is NOT a vote gainer, people know squat about it. Though I am not a Congress supporter, at the same time, risking the govt. for such an issue seems kinda absurd unless off course the deal is something worth it.
If we keep US's personal interests aside for a moment 'cause I am not really sure of the intricacies of the deal, India right now is under a lot of restrictions for Uranium trade and use. This deal shall open up those doors as India gets IAEA and other international clearances for Uranium trade and use, which IMO is good.
Secondly, I don't think that any govt. would risk itself for such a non-political issue. The nuclear deal is NOT a vote gainer, people know squat about it. Though I am not a Congress supporter, at the same time, risking the govt. for such an issue seems kinda absurd unless off course the deal is something worth it.
karnivore
in your face..
IIRC, these are some of the features of the deal:
> The deal overturns the 30 year old ban by the US. This will facilitate nuclear trade between the two countries.
> India will now get a continuous, and uninterrupted, supply of nuclear fuel from the Nuclear Supply Group (NSG).
> India will have to separate its nuclear program for military purpose and civil purpose. India currently has 15 reactors, while 7 are being constructed. Of the 22 reactors, 14 are supposed to be declared as civil. This agreement will not interfere with India’s nuclear program for military purpose.
> India will retain the right to reprocess the spent fuel, used in civilian reactors. In other words, there is no specific restriction for using the spent fuel, which is generally used for making nuclear bombs. However, this reprocessing shall be in accordance to International Safeguards. [This clause actually irked the Chinese, because they do not have the reprocessing right]
> India will have to open its civilian reactors (not the military ones), for international inspection.
> If India detonates another nuclear weapon, the agreement will become void and US will seek the return of the nuclear fuel and technology. But, it will be done at fair market price. Thus, this will not be a financial burden on India. [This is the only major sacrifice that India will have to make]
The deal obviously comes with certain strings attached. For example, India will now have parrot the American line of nuclear NPT, but then again, thats diplomacy. We have already done that with Iran and North Korea. Gone are the bipolar days, when India deluded herself to believe that she was the voice of conscience.
But people who think that this deal will make us US puppets, are living in the cold war era politics.
If Indo-US deal is a "non-political" deal, I wonder why the Left have withdrawn support, or why the Congress is running from pillar to post, or why Mulayam and Amar Singh are pissing in public. The deal has reached a stage, where, if India pulls out, it will a huge embarrassment for Indian foreign policy. Not only would India end up with egg on its face, but would look ridiculously immature. Thats why the importance. There is another, more sinister, reason behind this. The BJP, after detonating that nuclear weapon, has patented the howl of "NATIONALISM". If congress can push this deal through, Congress can then claim its stake in this "NATIONALISM" pie. The commies, of course have different equation. Anything that is even remotely connected to the stars and stripes is bad. No, that excludes the American green. US bad, Dollar good. Thats their policy.
True, shooting inflation makes a far better and relevant political agenda. But this is India, bhailog. Relevant is irrelevant.
> The deal overturns the 30 year old ban by the US. This will facilitate nuclear trade between the two countries.
> India will now get a continuous, and uninterrupted, supply of nuclear fuel from the Nuclear Supply Group (NSG).
> India will have to separate its nuclear program for military purpose and civil purpose. India currently has 15 reactors, while 7 are being constructed. Of the 22 reactors, 14 are supposed to be declared as civil. This agreement will not interfere with India’s nuclear program for military purpose.
> India will retain the right to reprocess the spent fuel, used in civilian reactors. In other words, there is no specific restriction for using the spent fuel, which is generally used for making nuclear bombs. However, this reprocessing shall be in accordance to International Safeguards. [This clause actually irked the Chinese, because they do not have the reprocessing right]
> India will have to open its civilian reactors (not the military ones), for international inspection.
> If India detonates another nuclear weapon, the agreement will become void and US will seek the return of the nuclear fuel and technology. But, it will be done at fair market price. Thus, this will not be a financial burden on India. [This is the only major sacrifice that India will have to make]
The deal obviously comes with certain strings attached. For example, India will now have parrot the American line of nuclear NPT, but then again, thats diplomacy. We have already done that with Iran and North Korea. Gone are the bipolar days, when India deluded herself to believe that she was the voice of conscience.
But people who think that this deal will make us US puppets, are living in the cold war era politics.
If Indo-US deal is a "non-political" deal, I wonder why the Left have withdrawn support, or why the Congress is running from pillar to post, or why Mulayam and Amar Singh are pissing in public. The deal has reached a stage, where, if India pulls out, it will a huge embarrassment for Indian foreign policy. Not only would India end up with egg on its face, but would look ridiculously immature. Thats why the importance. There is another, more sinister, reason behind this. The BJP, after detonating that nuclear weapon, has patented the howl of "NATIONALISM". If congress can push this deal through, Congress can then claim its stake in this "NATIONALISM" pie. The commies, of course have different equation. Anything that is even remotely connected to the stars and stripes is bad. No, that excludes the American green. US bad, Dollar good. Thats their policy.
True, shooting inflation makes a far better and relevant political agenda. But this is India, bhailog. Relevant is irrelevant.
dreamcatcher
Rockin g33k
^^^yea now we have ask the US even for a nuclear test. If the US approves, only then can we go ahead. We have to keep them informed about the latest in our nuclear devolopments, provide them access to our research labs. Well it will work in our favour too, but knowing the US, they wont disclose half as their total strength to us.
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
Does this mean testing of weapons?
Could you tell me how will this deal turn into votes in the next election
Please understand that there is politics of power (forming govt.) then there is the politics for the nation.- Status