The Final Debate....

[dreamcatcher]

The Left-gvernment thinks that this is a voice against democracy.According to them, signing this deal lends us into the hand of a different nation which shall affect the country in the long run.Theey are protesting against the interderence of US into indian matters. But without the US, its hard for india to gain forces against the likes of china, who after this deal is surely a threat for india.

 

[karnivore]

^^^yea now we have ask the US even for a nuclear test. If the US approves, only then can we go ahead. We have to keep them informed about the latest in our nuclear devolopments, provide them access to our research labs. Well it will work in our favour too, but knowing the US, they wont disclose half as their total strength to us.

No....we are not obligated to share our military research with US. And detonating a nuclear weapon, is not at all a show stopper. What will happen if we detonate. US will take back the nuclear fuel and technology, financially compensating us and we will go back into the same old sanctions. Whats the big deal. We have lived with it, and if necessary we will live it again. But if in the meantime, we can get what we want, whats the harm. [IIRC, we do not need that nuclear bang anytime soon. So there is probably no reason for you to loose sleep on this.]

US can't stop us from our military research. That's the key point. Not what will happen afterward.

Does this mean testing of weapons?
Could you tell me how will this deal turn into votes in the next election Please understand that there is politics of power (forming govt.) then there is the politics for the nation.

Yes it means testing of nuclear weapons.

I have explained it in my previous post only.

The BJP, after detonating that nuclear weapon, has patented the howl of "NATIONALISM". If congress can push this deal through, Congress can then claim its stake in this "NATIONALISM" pie.

Congress does not have much to show for the coming elections in 2009. In the middle of outrageous inflation and rural employment flop show, they have only this "NATIONALISM" drum to beat up. That's why they want it bad. BJP understands this, that's why their opposition, when in fact, it was they, who who kick started it all.

In my experience, general public does not give rat's a** to such international maneuvering. They are mainly concerned with roti, kapda and makan. A true politician will make them believe that everything else is more important than those. That's why you see religion, caste and all unnecessary issues, become central to campaigns. Sad but true. Elections in India are primarily fought on non-issues.

Mark my word. If this deal actually turns out to be successful, Congress will make it a political issue in the next election. Whether their howl actually converts into votes remains to be seen.

BTW, I fully understand the difference between "politics of power" and "politics for the nation". Unfortunately none is independent of another.

 

[iMav]

You know there is a small something that I don't understand. What is the point of military nuke facilities if weapons cannot be tested

 

[kumarmohit]

Actually we are among those countries which do not need to do physical explosion tests anymore. We now have enough information and technology enough to run simulated tests!

 

[Faun]

a deal is a deal, either you want it or not, for the sake of formality

 

[karnivore]

You know there is a small something that I don't understand. What is the point of military nuke facilities if weapons cannot be tested

How about reprocessing, spent nuclear fuel for making making high and low yield nuclear bombs. I am sure, you understand, that making a nuclear bomb is not a child's play. Making a low yield nuclear bomb, which can be fired, say for example, from an artillery installation, or even a mortar, is even more difficult, than making a huge high yield bomb. And all of these require extensive research.

You don't always need to detonate nuclear warheads to see if it is working of not. Of course, it helps, but not always necessary. It can be simulated by the supercomputers. Apparently, India do have the capacity to simulate nuclear explosion. [I can't confirm that, though]

 

[sreevirus]

With the massive deficiency in electricity production in India, this deal can only be for the better. I, for one, have had it with the constant power outages here in Navi Mumbai. Imagine a power outage on a hot summer day when you are giving your final year exam in college. It's not amusing.

And I know for a fact how the industries are affected here. The power demand is very large compared to the supply. And besides, with oil prices rising, nuclear power is very viable, and if handled well, is a very clean source of electricity.

 

[Faun]

and if handled well, is a very clean source of electricity.

yeah directly or indirectly we are making it dirty here

India is mere a puppet, we let it waver. US is well known for its Bushism. And for matter Russia and China will not hesitate too.

Though Pakistan will be the Mini Me

 

[sreevirus]

yeah directly or indirectly we are making it dirty here

Waste disposal is a whole different topic yaar. But we have to do what we have to do. Nuclear power is one great option for the development of this country. Machines and lights don't run on bull-power.

India is mere a puppet, we let it waver. US is well known for its Bushism. And for matter Russia and China will not hesitate too.

Yeah well, Bush is on his way out. I'm not saying that there won't be a similar replacement, but then, we know the clauses. Giving access to the reactors for civilian purposes isn't that much an invasion of privacy detrimental to the development of the nation, is it now?

 

[iMav]

Guys I don't see this deal's benefits materializing like in a month or two after being signed. Could be wrong though.

 

[sreevirus]

^^ You're right. But Rome was not built in a day.

 

[iMav]

If India were to build Rome, it would still be 'developing'.

 

[narangz]

With the massive deficiency in electricity production in India, this deal can only be for the better. I, for one, have had it with the constant power outages here in Navi Mumbai. Imagine a power outage on a hot summer day when you are giving your final year exam in college. It's not amusing.

And I know for a fact how the industries are affected here. The power demand is very large compared to the supply. And besides, with oil prices rising, nuclear power is very viable, and if handled well, is a very clean source of electricity.

You are lucky People of our State is suffering. We are having power cut from 10.30 AM to 5.00 PM. I just read in newspaper that Punjab State Electricity Board (PSEB) is telling us to get ready for more. There is a huge demand supply gap. They are even buying electricity from other states at exorbitant rates & the board has gone bankrupt.

 

[karnivore]

UPDATE:

The full text of Agreement of Safeguards between India and IAEA has been made public. You can see the full text at MEA site. Or download the pdf from here.

Apparently, the full text was leaked on ArmsControlWonk.com, within moments, after it was distributed among the IAEA members. The site presents an American point of view of the agreement. So remember, more they think it "stinks", the better it is for us.

 

[hsr]

^^ i was gonna do it... thanks...

 

[karnivore]

^^ i was gonna do it... thanks...

Glad, that I could be of some help...

I just skimmed through the draft agreement, and boy, if it is signed in its current avatar, India stand to loose, practically nothing. (Well, I will give it a thorough reading once I reach home).

I have been to the official commie site, and just look how deluded they are:

It is clear that the IAEA Safeguards Agreement does not address the fundamental problems in the Hyde Act and the 123 Agreement....India will place its costly imported reactors under perpetual IAEA safeguards and risk their permanent shutdown in case it fails to toe the US line on foreign policy issues.

And now read from ArmsControlWonk.com

The word “perpetuity” appears not once

Not only does the word "perpetuity" do not appear in the text, it does not even appear by implication as well.

According to the text of the agreement, India may suspend safeguards on a facility listed in the Annex (case 1) if India and the IAEA “jointly determine that the facility is no longer usable for any nuclear activity relevant from the point of view of safeguards”. As far as I can tell, the agreement is silent on what happens to safeguards on facilities not in the annex (case 2) after India removes all safeguarded fuel.

The agreement seems to have been cleverly drafted by the Ministry, but it is more than likely, that the loophole will be plugged in the final draft.

Nevertheless, the agreement seems good, if you take it on face value.

 

[hsr]

I also read the aggrement once. Some of my worries are cleared. But still there seems a little mystery. The government has given the whole details of the treaty to the public. I suspect that it can be a blindfold to us. Also why would they do it before anyone ask them?

 

[iNFiNiTE]

Actually the details were no secret anytime, though the government chose to not let the details be public untill now.

 

[W i d e S c r e e N]

Correct me if am wrong. Dosen't nuclear power constitutes only 13% or less of total power supply?

 

[ajaybc]

The communists here are Chinese traitors.They just do what their Chinese friends instruct them to do.

They were against the idea of independant India while we were fighting for it.They wanted us to be a Chinese or Russian(USSR) colony.

They were against computers when they were introduced.They said it would make people lose jobs and turn slaves(May be they a lot of terminator,Matrix and irobot movies).They now say that they did a mistake and computer are necessary for todays world.

They are doing the same $hit now with the nuclear deal.They are the real traitors.


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