So WHAT is the cause of such gruesome rapes?

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
^it is actually because they were not reported before. there were too many things that were not rape. forced penetration by foreign object was not considered rape, and not reported as such till a little while ago. Police cases, and newspapers. Sodomy, forced oral penetration, even against minors were all not rape. Sakshi vs Union of India was a PIL filed to redefine the narrow definition of rape under section 375 of the IPC. The organisation tried 8 years ago to bring about the very discussion and changes in laws that are going on now.
this is a quote from the judgment, the courts refused to redefine rape at that point of time, because apparently it would cause chaos and confusion in the mind of the public !!
The entire legal fraternity of India, lawyers or Judges, have the definition as contained in Section 375 IPC engrained in their mind and the cases are decided on the said basis. The first and foremost requirement in criminal law is that it should be absolutely certain and clear. An exercise to alter the definition of rape, as contained in Section 375 IPC, by a process of judicial interpretation, and that too when there is no ambiguity in the provisions of the enactment is bound to result in good deal of chaos and confusion, and will not be in the interest of society at large.
 

mitraark

nub 4eva
ofcourse objectifying women is present in all forms of entertainment. but there is a distinction which makes a movie superhit even if some form of objectification or unpleasant behaviour is shown. There is a reason why Barney Stinson is not looked from a bad angle despite he thinks of girls as one night stands. That distinction is whittled away in such 'so called' porn. Porn is certainly not the 'only' cause of such crimes, nobody is saying that. But nobody should deny the fact that it has , unfortunately, become one of "THE" causes of unimaginable sexual desire that acts as a driving force. Its not just rape we are talking here, why is there a sudden exponential increase in molestations, sexual harrassment cases? Is it because they were not reported before, really? Its not 'some' kind of porn, that word should be replaced by 'many'.

Objectifying women has been the primary cause of such incidents in India, although directly blaming Bollywood/Porn would be unfair.

Porn should hardly be considered, everyone knows it's tha farthest thing from real life, one has to be very foolish if they try to follow such lines in real world -__-'

Bollywood, a certain part of it to be specific, is more responsible in this case, they instill in people's mind, the false notion, portraying blunt stalking and teasing as some sort of romantic gesture. I don't want to cause any ruffles, but in my opinion, Bhojpuri and South Indian movies really push the limits for such stories. The quintessential indian who leads a normal daily life, resorts to such movies and fantasize about such stuff. People who have been bought up devoid of the moral education of differntiating betwwen the right and wrong, one day succumb to their desires, tries to imitate his fantasies, and that's where things go all wrong.

In retrospect, however, there have been incidents which I don't even feel like mentioning here in writing, which could never have been thought of from any kind of form of entertainment, inhuman, unspeakable acts. So one has to wonder what actually goes on in such people's mind.
 

Desmond

Destroy Erase Improve
Staff member
Admin
Why are we still discussing porn and depictions of sex in media? Even if it is completely removed, do you think that rapes will stop? The reason I believe is more psychological.

Check this article about a student on a trip to India about how she is subjected to stares and molestations.

India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear - CNN iReport

Don't know how much of it is true, but it does paint a pretty bad picture of India.
 
OP
Chetan1991

Chetan1991

Youngling
Why are we still discussing porn and depictions of sex in media? Even if it is completely removed, do you think that rapes will stop? The reason I believe is more psychological.

Check this article about a student on a trip to India about how she is subjected to stares and molestations.

India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear - CNN iReport

Don't know how much of it is true, but it does paint a pretty bad picture of India.

Unfortunately nothing an Indian couldn't guess.

Finding a middle ground is difficult.
On one hand we have our sexually repressive culture where men will rush at anything or anyone thought of as sexually open like stray dogs, on the other hand is culture like US where feminism has succeeded in creating an anti-male country where men are emasculated and women's b!tches, society is doomed and most women are screwing with only top 5% of men.

Then there's the weird case of Japan which was famous for its warriors but is now filled with "herbivore" men who don't even try to get women despite most of them being slim and hot.

This sure is a weird world. So how would you define a middle ground and how could we achieve it?
 

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
Uh magazines/ serials / movies getting a de glam makeover with women having realistic body shapes and practical fashion wont help?


Blame women also because of how they treat other women
 

Desmond

Destroy Erase Improve
Staff member
Admin
The way I see it, the majority of India is not ready for the kind of glam and bling that the media is portraying these days. They just don't have the mindset.

Their outlook needs to change first.
 

theterminator

Wise Old Owl
Check this article about a student on a trip to India about how she is subjected to stares and molestations. Don't know how much of it is true, but it does paint a pretty bad picture of India.
I notice that everyday. When I see a girl , I usually look at other men :-D to see how would they react upon seeing her. They will stare at her constantly like they're going to eat her. There's a very thin line that divides a good stare & a bad stare :-D. For a moment, I think this city/country/world is all doomed for females, etc. :-D but I remind myself that its all natural & the girl would also like to be attractive :cool:.
Then there's the weird case of Japan which was famous for its warriors but is now filled with "herbivore" men who don't even try to get women despite most of them being slim and hot.
Oh man! Is that sh!t real? I would like to visit Japan soon :-D. I guess that explains a tiny part of the massive JAV content on the web (oops what did I just wrote :duh2: )
The way I see it, the majority of India is not ready for the kind of glam and bling that the media is portraying these days. They just don't have the mindset.

Their outlook needs to change first.
You appear like Justice Markandey Katju here. I 100% agree :). Media is more concerned what SRK took for breakfast , what Katrina wore while sleeping last night. And I am always greeted with laughter shows on News Channels.
 
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Zangetsu

I am the master of my Fate.
Desmo has pointed out most of the causes
+ rapes happens bcoz the rapist are not satisfied with masturbation (want a practical experience)
+ want to take a chance of the situation (alone woman no body around..so lets rape..)
+ most of them are psychos...father raping daughter (damn :banghead:)
+ obession/lust to a particular woman (he is stalking that women everyday..he is looking for a chance)
+ saw it in bollywood movies (she spoiled my image by slapping me in public..I'll teach her a lesson she will remember for a lifetime)
 
OP
Chetan1991

Chetan1991

Youngling
@theterminator what's JAV?
BTW Japan is one of the world's most closed cultures. People are extremely polite and helpful but forget about mingling with them like a relative. You will always be treated as a gaijin (outsider.) Unless you speak Japanese.


The way I see it, the majority of India is not ready for the kind of glam and bling that the media is portraying these days. They just don't have the mindset.

Their outlook needs to change first.

How can that be done?
 

Desmond

Destroy Erase Improve
Staff member
Admin
@theterminator what's JAV?

Japanese Adult Video

BTW Japan is one of the world's most closed cultures. People are extremely polite and helpful but forget about mingling with them like a relative. You will always be treated as a gaijin (outsider.) Unless you speak Japanese.

True that. The Japs can be pretty bigoted at times. But not all of them are like that. A few people such as the bigots we have over here or the KKK in the US

How can that be done?

Education and/or rigorous discipline.

Edit : I've been wondering, what if the Indian man's libido is to blame? Explains why we have such a huge population.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Japanese people do not like mingling with outsiders(whether they speak japanese or not) is a fact but don't confuse it with impolite behaviour.they will not show you any disrespect in common every day behaviour but forget about being close with them beyond business relationship.as for JAV it has no relation whatsoever with people behaviour & is just like US adult entertainment industry(which is biggest in world).the reason for massive no. of JAV is that in Japan traditional morality/religion is almost absent(rare for Asia) so people can get away easily with working in adult movies not to mention japanese prefer their own(just like everything else) in their adult movies.

P.S.btw japanese law system is very harsh/biased for foreigners & you don't want to get caught on wrong side of law in Japan if you are a foreigner.
 
OP
Chetan1991

Chetan1991

Youngling
Japanese people do not like mingling with outsiders(whether they speak japanese or not) is a fact but don't confuse it with impolite behaviour.they will not show you any disrespect in common every day behaviour but forget about being close with them beyond business relationship.as for JAV it has no relation whatsoever with people behaviour & is just like US adult entertainment industry(which is biggest in world).the reason for massive no. of JAV is that in Japan traditional morality/religion is almost absent(rare for Asia) so people can get away easily with working in adult movies not to mention japanese prefer their own(just like everything else) in their adult movies.

P.S.btw japanese law system is very harsh/biased for foreigners & you don't want to get caught on wrong side of law in Japan if you are a foreigner.

+1.
I was mentioning Japanese for the benefit of theterminator who wants to go there for the girls. You got no shot unless you can speak Japanese (acc. to lots of foreigner guys there.)
 

Faun

Wahahaha~!
Staff member
Japanese are robots programmed with falling in love with their own kind. Ok ? Now back to the thread.
 

theterminator

Wise Old Owl
BTW Japan is one of the world's most closed cultures. People are extremely polite and helpful but forget about mingling with them like a relative. You will always be treated as a gaijin (outsider.) Unless you speak Japanese.
How can that be done?
True that. The Japs can be pretty bigoted at times. But not all of them are like that. A few people such as the bigots we have over here or the KKK in the US.
Japanese people do not like mingling with outsiders(whether they speak japanese or not) is a fact but don't confuse it with impolite behaviour.they will not show you any disrespect in common every day behaviour but forget about being close with them beyond business relationship.as for JAV it has no relation whatsoever with people behaviour & is just like US adult entertainment industry(which is biggest in world).the reason for massive no. of JAV is that in Japan traditional morality/religion is almost absent(rare for Asia) so people can get away easily with working in adult movies not to mention japanese prefer their own(just like everything else) in their adult movies.

P.S.btw japanese law system is very harsh/biased for foreigners & you don't want to get caught on wrong side of law in Japan if you are a foreigner.
+1.
I was mentioning Japanese for the benefit of theterminator who wants to go there for the girls. You got no shot unless you can speak Japanese (acc. to lots of foreigner guys there.)
Well I can drop that idea & meet them up 'online' :-D.

Chinese are very conservative as well.
 

Raaabo

Emperor
Staff member
Admin
Porn? Libido? Alcohol? What utter rubbish.

Sorry, but it's true. Rape is a power play, and some men just revel in that power. It's usually after they've gotten away with other crimes, and the next step is murder. All of you here desire women, or men, and all women desire men or other women, that's based on sexuality and nothing more. You may look at someone gorgeous, or someone wearing revealing clothes in real life or tv, and get turned on even, but how does that lead to rape?

Anyone on this forum claiming to "not watch porn" is lying, and we all know it. How many of you have ever been tempted to rape even after spending an entire day watching porn? Obviously no one will answer that, but I'm betting zero.

Many of you drink as well I assume, (I don't for the record, but all my friends do), did you ever find yourself thinking about raping someone when high or drunk? Yes you may drink alcohol and find yourself thinking you are suddenly Gods gift to women, and flirting with them or acting macho, and making a fool of yourself, but if you think you might ever drag a girl / woman into a dark spot and rape when under the influence please seek psychiatric help immediately.

Rapists typically do not even see a woman as a woman, she's just a toy to be used and discarded, and no better than an animal.

True, the patriarchal mindset in India does make it easier for most Indian men to see women as inferior, and that does contribute to the Indian problem to some extent. Yes culture shocks also may account for a tiny fraction of the cases, but it still has to be within the context of seeing women as inferior, or just good for one thing.

Some have even suggested that the reason is arranged marriage. A boy goes about looking at pure physical qualities of various women, chooses one who he feels will make a good lay, gets married and then has his way with her as and when he pleases for the rest of his life. It's just another way of making women inferior, by giving them no say in who they marry and indeed sleep with. Now educated society usually has ways to enhance this experience and gives the girl also a say, but in villages they aren't so lucky.

It's not just the men, it's families in general. We still have millions who truly believe that men are better - thus the continued female infanticide cases. Girl children are abandoned in dumpsters, killed before being born - what message are we sending? Most Indian families, especially mothers, are as equally to blame, because to them the son is special, and the daughter is a burden. When your very upbringing tells you that you're superior, how can you not expect that some of these men will take their superiority to criminal extents.

We are also taught that power is everything. The rich display power, they can get the poor into trouble with their contacts. The police are brazen with their power, and can walk up to you and slap you if they don't like your face. The politician can do the same, but even with the police he controls, so he has ultimate power. Thus we are a society of power hungry people, who strive to better their lives through any means necessary, which usually involved crime and corruption. Once you bend a few morals, what are a few more? If you can give a bribe, why not accept one? Everyone else does it anyway. If you can jump a red light, why not run away after you hit someone? Anyway no one will listen to your story because you are richer and thus resented for having more power. There is no right and wrong in India, just power and opportunity. We bow to power easily, but wait for the opportunity for the tables to turn in our favour. If you see a rich chap in a car knock down a motorcyclist who was being an idiot by weaving through traffic, we automatically sympathise with the bike chap, because what do these rich car guys think they are?

We have become an overpopulated nation of power hungry people, always resenting everyone else, and with the knowledge that the "law" is really non existent for most everyday scenarios, and justice is purely what you perceive it to be, depending on how much power you hold.

International studies show that rapists are no better than murderers, because its a power game, and they like the high of having total power over someone. That manifests as stabbing someone with a knife, or with their penises, it's really no different - because the end result is an attempt to feel powerful by reducing a victim to a beggar, pleading for mercy. That's the turn on there, not the body. This is usually true for the regular rapist acting alone.

However, in the Indian context, this also happens in a society where everyone wants power and resents those with more of this power than them. We all know that all power in India is gained criminally - rich get richer by evading taxes, black money, bribing politicians to get favours, etc, police get power by NOT following the law, politicians get elected by using underhanded tactics, and corruption... So how can we not expect the ones with criminal intent to turn out as bad as they are? There is no fear of retribution - you will fight on the road knowing that you will not be caught. 5 of you together will always threaten bodily harm to a group of 2 and yet be easily intimidated by a group of 20, does it matter who's right and who's wrong? Thus the rise in gang rapes - the sense of power is heightened in a group.

As I mentioned in a different thread, only fear can save us now. An ultimate power that reduces all these local goons and criminals into nothing. If all of us well meaning citizens of the country got together, came out on the streets with lathis and swords by the thousands, and beat up every roadside Romeo who pinched a girl's body or passed lewd comments, you can bet the instances would reduce and women would feel safer, but then who would govern this group of do gooders? If 10,000 members of your locality walked down the road catching criminals and forcing the police to register cases, you can bet things would get done, but who is going to rally the people? Politicians? No, because then you end up with an agenda that's corrupt to begin with.

The bottom line is, unless the law is enforced, nothing happens, but if the upholders of the law themselves are corrupt, then what? I see India either headed down the drain and the lives of common people getting worse by the year, and everyone just adjusting and saying such is life. Or else we will end up with Egypt and Syria like revolts, where police and politicians will be burnt at the stake as they deserve. It's time to sink or swim, and I'm looking forward to seeing whether we Indians will ever be able to stand up and revolt, or will we continue being the badly beaten, hard working horses that some people exploit for their gain. Only time will tell.
 

snap

Lurker
The bottom line is, unless the law is enforced, nothing happens, but if the upholders of the law themselves are corrupt, then what? I see India either headed down the drain and the lives of common people getting worse by the year, and everyone just adjusting and saying such is life. Or else we will end up with Egypt and Syria like revolts, where police and politicians will be burnt at the stake as they deserve. It's time to sink or swim, and I'm looking forward to seeing whether we Indians will ever be able to stand up and revolt, or will we continue being the badly beaten, hard working horses that some people exploit for their gain. Only time will tell.

:+1: this should be in a archive or something similar for future generations to read.
 
Porn? Libido? Alcohol? What utter rubbish.

Sorry, but it's true. Rape is a power play, and some men just revel in that power. It's usually after they've gotten away with other crimes, and the next step is murder. All of you here desire women, or men, and all women desire men or other women, that's based on sexuality and nothing more. You may look at someone gorgeous, or someone wearing revealing clothes in real life or tv, and get turned on even, but how does that lead to rape?

Anyone on this forum claiming to "not watch porn" is lying, and we all know it. How many of you have ever been tempted to rape even after spending an entire day watching porn? Obviously no one will answer that, but I'm betting zero.

Many of you drink as well I assume, (I don't for the record, but all my friends do), did you ever find yourself thinking about raping someone when high or drunk? Yes you may drink alcohol and find yourself thinking you are suddenly Gods gift to women, and flirting with them or acting macho, and making a fool of yourself, but if you think you might ever drag a girl / woman into a dark spot and rape when under the influence please seek psychiatric help immediately.

This I agree...

True, the patriarchal mindset in India does make it easier for most Indian men to see women as inferior, and that does contribute to the Indian problem to some extent. Yes culture shocks also may account for a tiny fraction of the cases, but it still has to be within the context of seeing women as inferior, or just good for one thing.

Some have even suggested that the reason is arranged marriage. A boy goes about looking at pure physical qualities of various women, chooses one who he feels will make a good lay, gets married and then has his way with her as and when he pleases for the rest of his life. It's just another way of making women inferior, by giving them no say in who they marry and indeed sleep with. Now educated society usually has ways to enhance this experience and gives the girl also a say, but in villages they aren't so lucky.

This not as much... You are trying to suggest that the mindset a percentage of the indian society is the indian mindset....dont forget that people who think like you are also part of the indian mindset.. all of us dont think the same.Also rape is problem in india only, but is prelevent in all most all of the countries...
Also goverment acts as the people say it to...
 
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