*** Science Or God? ***

[rhitwick]

The novel has a disclaimer that apart from the plot all are facts.

 

[Anish]

@Rhitwick: Thats amazing I've never heard of that. Thanks for sharing bro. So, the result of this research would favor the existence of God I suppose.

do you think you can create a organism If you can create then you are god

You must first read Urey-Miller hypothesis - class 10 biology I suppose

 

[doomgiver]

Building stonehenge, pyramids, great cities is a different thing, and asking the questions like those mentioned in Prashopnishada is another. Every big civilization in this world built cities, fought wars, conquered each other. But no one from Aryavart (Bharat / India) came outside to conquer anyone.

well, you think that building a effing HUEG structure is just a piddling thing?
no one from bharat built any building of note.
everyone came to india and raped the country, and what did we do? we ran to the hills, we ran for our lives.

India is known not for it's worldly achievements, but for the centuries of wisdom it has, which despite being attacked for thousands of years, still remains, and flourishing.

er, what culture? spit piss and **** in public? social customs? blindly hero worshipping anyone of fair skin and treating those less than fair as slaves?

i'd rather have a few pillars of crumbling marble rather than this $hithole.

Swami Vivekananda puts it in very beautiful lines -


You cannot imagine the interest the world is showing in India and Indian things. Especially in developing nations like Brazil ,the desire to learn Indian religion, yoga, dance, music, cuisine, and so on is terrible. You can safely say that there are at least 500 yoga schools in Brazil alone. Then there is a mad rush for yoga in the United States , United Kingdom , and so on. But in India ? We hate ourselves. We decry our History. We hate our Science and Technology and want to imitate Americans and British.

copypasta warning :

You cannot imagine the interest we are showing in the west. our desire to learn foreign excercises, dance, music, cuisine, practices and so on is terrible (removed religion, as anyone changing their religion gets torn up by rabid radicals). You can safely say that there are at least 500 dance schools in delhi alone. Then there is a mad rush for foreign things in here. But in USA ? they hate themselves. We decry our History. We hate our Science and Technology and culture and want to imitate indians and blacks.


And after all it was not about how old who is. As always, deviating from the topic has been the agenda in this debate. You took just one point from the post which you could answer. My point was that no one that time thought as deeply as Vedic Rishis, about Universe, Consciousness, and had such tremendous wisdom. We had the biggest universities in the world, Nalanda and Takshila, which were burning for almost a year after being destroyed by barbaric Islamists.
Topics like Astronomy, Metaphysics, Theology and Law, Medical Science, Astrophysics, Surgery had been taught in India even before the coming of Britishers (Souce: Prof. Dharampal's Lifetime Research).

well, what good did all that do?
imagine most of the dinosaurs were HYPERUBEROMGWTFBBQ intelligent, had awesome culture, and were terribly polite and non violent, then suddenly some furry mammals got their litte furry paws on laser cannons...... now tell me, what good will all that culture and "sipping tea with pinky sticking out" do???

Beautiful Tree - Indigenous Indian Education in Eighteenth Century

But perhaps, you closed mind will not allow you to accept anything beyond your beliefs. You will always try to prove everything false, because of the brainwashing about Indian Technology and Science you all have been going through since long.

perhaps your one-sided views arise from your closeted upbringing (nothing wrong with that, except, if you build a impenetrable shell to keep in your candle-light, you miss out on the bright sun shining outside)

 

[rhitwick]

@Rhitwick: Thats amazing I've never heard of that. Thanks for sharing bro. So, the result of this research would favor the existence of God I suppose.

Favor? Can't say.

They found temple and trying to understand why it was made when men even weren't used to live in caves and weren't used to come together to do any work.

Why they needed to build a temple that is the question? How would it favor in proving God's existence I've no idea.

 

[Anish]

^^I presumed may be,they built it for their gods.
And who knows? May be its not built by the humans at all!!

 

[rishitells]

no one from bharat built any building of note.

That is probably the funniest thing I've ever read. Go anywhere in India, especially in South India, to update your knowledge, then come back. There is no architecture in the world that can be compared to (and there is no sense in comparing huge pyramids with meticulously crafted architectures. They both have their own significance) South India temples like of RajaRaja temples, Meenakshi Temple, Ajanta Caves, Khajuraho and so on, the list is Huge! I hope you are not living with tribals..

everyone came to india and raped the country, and what did we do? we ran to the hills, we ran for our lives.

Who ran for lives? Maharana Pratap, Who fought ruthlessly till his last breath against Akbar?? Or Rani of Jhansi, who despite of being a women, showed the height of courage? Or those millions of Patriots who fought for the independence including Bhagat Singh, Rajguru? Are you talking about them?

what culture? spit piss and **** in public? social customs? blindly hero worshipping anyone of fair skin and treating those less than fair as slaves?

These are civic problems, and can be solved unless people like you come and blame it on religion.. I hope you do not treat anyone as slave..

i'd rather have a few pillars of crumbling marble rather than this $hithole.

Thanks for showing me your intellectual level, I'd rather debate with somebody with guts of writing...

We hate our Science and Technology and culture and want to imitate indians and blacks.

Very good, I expected no less..

well, what good did all that do?
imagine most of the dinosaurs were HYPERUBEROMGWTFBBQ intelligent, had awesome culture, and were terribly polite and non violent, then suddenly some furry mammals got their litte furry paws on laser cannons...... now tell me, what good will all that culture and "sipping tea with pinky sticking out" do???

What do you want to say? Comparing Hindus to DINOSAURS??
Take some rest man!

perhaps your one-sided views arise from your closeted upbringing (nothing wrong with that, except, if you build a impenetrable shell to keep in your candle-light, you miss out on the bright sun shining outside)

Don't be so desperate bro, find some debatable content and come back

 

[Neuron]

^^I presumed may be,they built it for their gods.
And who knows? May be its not built by the humans at all!!

Ancient aliens.

 

[doomgiver]

i'll try to answer tomorrow. you pick a bad time to post :/

 

[mediator]

@Rishabh :

You are wasting your time here. There was a reason why Vedic knowledge was imparted only to the eligible ones. Through meditation also one can experience of what we know as the ultimate reality. But reading the scriptures can have both negative and positive effects. It can help one understand the ultimate truth and one can become too egotistical about it. Some people are presumptuous about it and some are busy tagging it as "monotheism or polytheism". Some think ancient is equivalent to outdated and unscientific (and crap ) and some think modern is better. Some even have the audacity to fall into the traps of western missionaries to call the Vedic knowledge as religion and then use the same tag for their own motives based on presumptions and tags based on the terminologies they themselves dislike.

Please read Kena and Other Upanishads by Sri Aurobindo

Other reads :
The Max-Muller Syndrome istorting Hinduism (Part 1) | The Chakra News
Eminent Supporters and Upholders of Hinduism
Generating power out of thin air? This man from Karnataka is confident - Bangalore - DNA

Other nations are promoting sanskrit to know Vedas, some Indians are trying to figure out energy resources through Vedic knowledge, but then there are those who have never even read the shrutis, but still are busy tagging,concluding,judging,assuming based on abrahamic conditioning of "god" and "modern material understanding" of science. Higher than these is still another category which further judges the Veda from the 'critics sites' and superficialities happening in the society, where we often land up on the forums of Zakir Naik .

And, From that distorted and reduced framework, they are busy abusing and further degrading the Indian literature which had been represented often in forms of metaphor and riddles. I guess they would make a mockery even of the Kena Upanishad where the whole scripture is written in the form of a riddle. Max Muller Syndrome is what they are suffering from!

Earlier, when a child was born, he/she used to sleep beside the mother and now we have western conception where the new born child is made to sleep separately and often given in the hands of strange and unknown faces called 'baby sitters' without even empathising on the effects it has on the child!

 

[doomgiver]

Earlier, when a child was born, he/she used to sleep beside the mother and now we have western conception where the new born child is made to sleep separately and often given in the hands of strange and unknown faces called 'baby sitters' without even empathising on the effects it has on the child!

as i said, the whole culture is being force-fed intravenously to dogs

 

[Anorion]

^yes, vedism and Hinduism are both tags, un umbrella term for a wide range of umm.. vidya, totally legit btw, there was always freedom to pursue your own natural beliefs, and many hindu/vedic schools were based on atheism, rejecting rituals, and many other so called "modern" ideas

its just our way of life, find a guru and follow his/her teachings

 

[Anish]

^yes, vedism and Hinduism are both tags, un umbrella term for a wide range of umm.. vidya, totally legit btw, there was always freedom to pursue your own natural beliefs, and many hindu/vedic schools were based on atheism, rejecting rituals, and many other so called "modern" ideas

its just our way of life, find a guru and follow his/her teachings

^^yeah.. I agree with this troll (you are promoted to level 13 )
Just live your own way of life (which you like) as long as it doesn't hurt others (I mean the human community) and of-course yourself. Why do people tie themselves to those hard rituals I wonder!!!
Four choices:
1. Don't care about God, (if god exists, as Achilles said: the gods envy us!) Live your own way of life with your own principles of humanity. (I fall here)
2. Fear for the existence of god - he is watching you when you are out with your GF
3. Atheism
4. Research whether god exists - Break your head until your precious spills out your entire room and at-last you come to know that you've wasted you life.

Most of the curious sapiens are of the fourth category.

 

[Monk]

Religion for me is mere traffic rules, US has specific traffic rules. India has different traffic rules, same applies with all other countries/communities.
But no traffic rule is greater than one and other (That's what people are fighting for). You have set of instructions to follow, to make a civil society and you call it 'Religion'.

"Religion is for human, not vice-versa"

"There is no God, but Godliness"

 

[doomgiver]

Religion for me is mere traffic rules, US has specific traffic rules. India has different traffic rules, same applies with all other countries/communities.
But no traffic rule is greater than one and other (That's what people are fighting for). You have set of instructions to follow, to make a civil society and you call it 'Religion'.

OHOHOHOHOHO!!!!

i LOVE it when a newb necro's this thread!!!

yeah, all those "rules" are just in place so that a few profit off the many.
i dont follow the rules, hence, i am that person who overthrows tyrants and "restores" "order" upon the world.

choke on it.

 

[rhitwick]

Men hate uncertainty, unknown and unexplained (IDK about animals if they also react to unknown same way as men do; but, yea men do).

Since the beginning we tried to explain things we see. It was need of the hour then and even now. Everything had to have some reason, something had to be source of it...when science was not established (well, as 'Science') the answers were given philosophically. "If, you do this, this and this, thus would happen". As identical as a scientific formula to reach a goal.

This formula or rule later became boundaries for men. Everything that can be explained or fall under these boundaries are accepted. And things that don't fall in the boundaries or can't be explained by the existing rules are...not accepted.

Now, men just did not stop assigning "not accepted" to such things/events...like I told earlier everything had to have an explanation...the next immediate task was to find out a reason of that. And if the path taken to reach the conclusion was hurried or with least effort or calculative methods...a GOD was invented to be responsible for the phenomena! Sometimes the GOD would be a bad one (Evil) responsible bad/destructive events and sometimes good ones. In summary...even in the old ages they needed someone to blame/appreciate/make responsible for things that happened.

Yes, that approach is still followed in every aspect in our daily life. Your home, your office, daily commute medium, politics, economy etc. Whenever something bad/good (though now the scapegoat is searched to take blame only) happens people start to find the reason. As if the sooner the reason is found the problem will be solved. Well, the approach is right most of the times. If you can pinpoint the reason, you just need to find an antidote for it. But, which pains me that the process now stops the moment someone agrees to take the fall.

Well, the above stanza kinda went offtopic, but this indomitable thirst to explain everything and bind everything by rule took us where we are now. The intelligent and all questioning minds gave us science whereas the lazy and all accepting minds gave us GOD.

 

[Anorion]

^catch a phenomenon and follow it to it's conclusion. A tree bears fruits. The scientic approach will tell us that the only way trees can survive is to bribe other life forms and hide their seed in food. Evolution solved the problem of how to spread seeds. Science stops here. Religion adds a force to this phenomenon, a meaning, shakti gives us all fruits. Nature is bountiful for man, not for itself. This force giving us so many things is visualised as a thousand real hands giving us the fruits. We worship this force as devi. This is not being lazy, it's taking more effort to celebrate the same phenomena. Otherwise we take nature for granted, look what science is doing to it.

 

[amruth kiran]

great scientists have been put behind bars in the centuries behind us. all for thinking out of the box. that nature is set of events which started billions of years ago, not that a supernatural force just "made it happen".
science is merely not just a belief, but more of a understanding, then believing.
i am not saying religion(god) is just belief, but i feel people take to the side of god cause they believe it is easier to "believe" in someone greater,powerful , wiser than themselves. just as a morale boost. i have done it. its better than thinking that life is just a set of coincidental events. and anything can happen at the next turn.
scary but true.

 

[rishitells]

great scientists have been put behind bars in the centuries behind us. all for thinking out of the box. that nature is set of events which started billions of years ago, not that a supernatural force just "made it happen".

Great seer-scientists like Patanjali, Panini, Charaka, and many more were not put behind the bars, but are indeed the most revered individuals of Indian Civilization's History. Patanjali's Yoga Sutras are studies and researched all over the world by brilliant scholars of Cambridge and Harward. And there has been no greater grammarian than Panini, who standardized the Sanskrit, there is no doubt in that. I would request you not to Generalize every world view into one single narrow minded view. There has been no fight between Science and Religion in India. Actually there has never been a "Religion" in India. We did not have any orthodox "Must-Follow" Rules and Regulations of life and society.

Reason, Speculation and Research was an integral part of our Civilization which led to the development of various branches of practical importance such as anatomy and medicine, architecture and town planning, meteorology and astronomy, language and linguistics, music and dance, statecraft and economy, social engineering and jurisprudence, psychology and physiology etc.

 

[amruth kiran]

first of all. this is a general discussion so we have to generalize . we are lucky that great men you mentioned were not stoned for their achievements . India is unique in that way, that's why we accepted men from " the new world" or foreign lands as our own brothers, or even accepting new ideas or even ideals for a better life.
no doubt of the contribution which Indian scientists made and still make.
so we can happily say in a way science is treated like a god in India.

 

[rishitells]

first of all. this is a general discussion so we have to generalize . we are lucky that great men you mentioned were not stoned for their achievements . India is unique in that way, that's why we accepted men from " the new world" or foreign lands as our own brothers, or even accepting new ideas or even ideals for a better life.
no doubt of the contribution which Indian scientists made and still make.
so we can happily say in a way science is treated like a god in India.

Glad to acknowledge your respect towards Indian Civilization.