mediator
Technomancer
Re: ***science Or God?***
But I'm quite convinced that someone like @scientific-unbeliever wont be able to give any heed to such a topic. I wonder if u have done even any of the 'asanas' or even simple meditation in life yet. Next, I won't be surprised if u ask "How spiritual healing" works!! So ur case is just like the blind theists.
But there had been plenty of times when I had witnessed such intuition as well. I know u'll reject it. So obviously I wont explain my cases to u. U can term such cases as lucky, but so many lucky guesses?
If u have not practiced upon ur unconcious self then how can u even say a word against it?? IS it really another "sense" that we have not cultivated since childhood and neglected it completely in our quest for "scientific approaches"??
About ethics, I don't understand why they need to kill animals like rabits to develop medicines for humans when again among humans also we have diff. immune levels. Then leave aside the poor animals.
ANd Einstein also said this..
"The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of Providence, who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes; the God who, according to the limits of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even or life itself; the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing; he who preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception of God."
I dunno why we r quoting Einstein like an undisputed God now. Abt the name thats k, I like Sri rather than doing it as "Sree". I hope u wont mind.
And about ur comments part, I really wont like to degrade myself to that level where a person speculates what the opponent did in his skool days and characterizes like @Srivirusaaya Namah said. I guess u need a first hand experience of spiritual stuff. Start with simple meditation!!
Now how can I make a rigid soul understand who has already been told and has read that "modern science" straight away rejects the concept of "vital force". And yes, the answer u r looking for, or shud I say u might have read is equally bizaaaaaarrre.karnivore said:How exactly, may i dare to ask ????
It is still unclear HOW HOMEOPATHY WORKS. All i, again, get to know is that it works.
OK fine, it works and frankly i don't care how it does. I just need to know one answer. WHAT HAPPENS TO AVOGADRO'S RULE DURING SUCCUSSION ?? I know for sure, that it doesn't go on a vacation.
For a medicine to work, first it must be capable enough to work. How in the hell, with that much of succussion, does a compound, or shall i say a virtually non-existent molecule of the compound, retain its remedial power, is all that i am asking. (Its almost like asking how exactly the positions/locations of planets effect our future lives)
So far, not a single member of the homeopathy-brigade could come up with a reasonable answer. (But make no mistake, they do have an answer, which is equally, if not more, bizarre than homeopathy itself. I am surprised, that the wise one has not yet locked horns on that issue.)
How does homeopathy work
Many of the homeopathic remedies are so diluted that according to the known laws of physics and chemistry, they couldn't possibly have any effect. Once you get beyond a certain point-24x or 12c -there is probably not even one single molecule of the original active substance remaining. This fact is often pointed to by critics of homeopathy as they dismiss the effect of homeopathy as merely due to placebo effect.
And yet, according to homeopathic doctrine and experience, the more diluted the solution, the more potent it is. Homeopaths contend that the remedies work and they see no reason to stop using them simply because we do not understand how they work. They often argue that pharmacologists cannot explain exactly how most conventional drugs work. For example, even aspirin is not fully understood in terms of how it works, but physicians have no difficulty in recommending its use. Over the years several theories have been proposed to explain the action on homeopathic potentization.
Hormesis
The effects of micro-doses have been known for a long time, and there are a number of examples that support the idea that very diluted concentrations of a substance will have a measurable and sometimes profound effect. Scientists call this phenomenon: hormesis. Scientists from Michigan State University have shown how hormesis work in nature. They used micro-doses of a fertilizer to stimulate crop production. In a dose equivalent to a 9x dilution, the fertilizer increased tomato yield by 30 percent, carrots were 21 percent bigger, and corn yield increased by 25 percent.
Our own bodies secrete minute amounts of hormones that have powerful effects. Thyroid hormone is present in our blood at only 1 part per 10 billion-yet this is enough to regulate the rate of our entire metabolism. Many animal studies show that low doses of some substances elicit a beneficial response while high doses are harmful. This phenomenon has been documented to occur with radiation, antibiotics, and heavy metals.
Pheromones
Pheromones are powerful aromatic hormone-like substances that creatures secrete to attract one another. One molecule of moth pheromone is so potent, it will attract another moth from miles away and trigger a cascade of physical reactions. Though well documented, the exact mechanism for pheromones remains unknown.
Homeopathic Remedies Work in Spiritual/Energy Plane and Not in Physical Plane
Homeopathic remedies are believed to work in the spiritual plane as opposed to the physical plane as we are used to think and measure. Hahnemann believed that dilution and succussion released a spirit- like power that worked on the spiritual level of the vital force in humans. We are familiar with the formerly invisible, immeasurable, unknowable energy forms, such as electromagnetic radiation and subatomic particles. Magnets exerted their force long before science could explain the mechanism. Physicists are still trying to explain gravity and the nature of matter, still discovering phenomena such as the "strong force" and the "weak force." Homeopathy is an energy medicine, as are acupuncture and therapeutic touch. Homeopaths believe that although the physical molecules of the original substance may be gone, dilution and succussion leaves something behind-an imprint of its essence, or its energy pattern-that gives it a kind of healing charge. Potentization does not occur if you simply dilute the substance, even if you dilute it repeatedly. Nor does it occur if you only shake the substance vigorously. There is something about each process that builds sequentially upon the other, causing the power to be retained and progressively intensified.
But how does the information in such a minute amount of substance get transferred to the body? Some theorists suggest the repeated succussion creates an electrochemical pattern that is stored in the water carrier and then spreads like liquid crystallization through the body's own water; others say the dilution process triggers an electromagnetic imprinting that directly affects the electro- magnetic field of the body. This concept is used in other therapies also. For example, Ayurveda suggests taking water that has been potentizated by precious metals such as gold. The water is believed to possess curative power as a result of coming in contact with gold and other gemstones although no molecular transfer takes place. The healing power of crystals and magnets are believed to come from their effect on the energy pattern or vibration frequency. So, the suggestion of the homeopathic remedies as working on the energy plane may not be as far fetched as we may think at the first glance.
Homeopathic Remedies Activate the Vital Force
Homeopaths believe that it is the energy or "vibrational pattern" of the remedy, rather than the chemical content, that stimulates the healing by activating what Hahnemann called the Vital force. Vital force is the healing power or energy that exists within us all. It is called by the name Chi by Chinese and Prana by Indian Ayurveda. The vital force fuels the mind, body, emotions and mind. It keeps us healthy and balanced. When the balance of the vital force is disturbed by factors such as stress, pollution, improper diet and lack of exercise, it becomes weakened resulting in the person getting sick.
Scientists who accept the potential benefits of homeopathic theory suggest several theories to explain how highly diluted homeopathic medicines may act. Using recent developments in quantum physics, they have proposed that electromagnetic energy in the medicines may interact with the body on some level. Researchers in physical chemistry have proposed the "memory of water" theory, whereby the structure of the water-alcohol solution is altered by the medicine during the process of dilution and retains this structure even after none of the actual substance remains.
But I'm quite convinced that someone like @scientific-unbeliever wont be able to give any heed to such a topic. I wonder if u have done even any of the 'asanas' or even simple meditation in life yet. Next, I won't be surprised if u ask "How spiritual healing" works!! So ur case is just like the blind theists.
I have already told my point.srivirus said:When did I say mathematics was the answer to everything? I do know that maths has a lot of limitations. Even division by zero is not defined. But there have been workarounds to that limitation. By directing me to a site dealing with vedic mathematics, what do you want to prove? Maybe they did find an answer to some problems? And your point is?
Thats why I asked to u read the complete site.It is unscientific to mix philosophy/mythology/metaphysics with pure mathematics. Maybe vedic mathematics did solve some problems (I have read about solutions to quadratic and differential equations, using vedic numerical techniques), but the above post is a little too much pseudoscientific.
I really don't like to comment upon things of which I haven't acknowledged the effect of. But ur advocation of something that has it flaws too and is based on something which u urself affirm to be erroneous is no better than the thing u quoted here. ANd I'm not interested in in what u think. I can similary think and say that u too r too narrow minded to be walking the path set by modern science alone that u know as well and not observing what other fields have to offer. Don't tell me that a major percent of this world is "ignorant" to be following something spiritual and still getting exhilarated and cured!! No sir, if u have read my links then u wud have found that many knowledgeable souls on this planet who have quest to learn more about science still don't part their ways with stuff like homeopathy,ayurveda, accupunture etc. They practise it, spreading it and are happily living!!srivirus said:And I presume you also believe in mythical monkeys who could fly. Did you really go back 2000 years into the past to witness it? What other “proof” do you have other than some “testimony” in some ancient book? This hardly even stands out as an argument. Of course science needs logic. Saying that you should believe in any claim made by any odd guy out there without an iota of reason or logic is what I would say, Is ignorance.
Sure thats a personal opinion. I have no objection to that!!srivirus said:There have been many a person who have have had prestigious degrees and have committed frauds. Not that I’m directly putting a question mark on your Dr. Mona Lisa Schulz, but as a skeptic, I do have my reservations. And oh, you don’t need to feel sorry for me, thank you very much. The term reality is relative I would say. It can vary from people to people with varying perspectives and points of views.
But there had been plenty of times when I had witnessed such intuition as well. I know u'll reject it. So obviously I wont explain my cases to u. U can term such cases as lucky, but so many lucky guesses?
If u have not practiced upon ur unconcious self then how can u even say a word against it?? IS it really another "sense" that we have not cultivated since childhood and neglected it completely in our quest for "scientific approaches"??
U talk of belief, then u must have heard about the cases as well where the patient's condition improves just by telling him that he is going to live whereas scientifically he had very minor chances!! U can urself infer what that means.srivirus said:Modern scientific medicine is passed after various tests. There are different subjects just dealing with it (toxicology, for example). Of course, you could argue that ethics are broken here and there (I would never justify the tests on innocent people that turned fatal). But they are known to deliver in most cases. But is there a surety when it comes to alternative medicine? You are expected to believe whatever is told to you, and the cure, if it does happen, is uncertain.
About ethics, I don't understand why they need to kill animals like rabits to develop medicines for humans when again among humans also we have diff. immune levels. Then leave aside the poor animals.
And how exactly does that relate to spirituality or even science?? A hoax that became a part of course books? R u sure u took it with a "pinch of salt"??And the Apollo hoax is just what you can say is a phenomenon you can observe in people (I for one, took it with a pinch of salt). Just put up something which might be remotely true, and people can lap it up easily. There are so many other hoaxes doing rounds. Some people believe in aliens landing on earth. Some don’t believe in the Holocaust.
Exactly!!srivirus said:Goes back to what I said: Reality can be highly relative. It all depends on your perspectives, ideas, beliefs, and what you want to believe.
Nope just a reflection of what we r dicussin!Yes, modern science. Find it hard to believe?
ANd Einstein also said this..
"The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of Providence, who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes; the God who, according to the limits of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even or life itself; the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing; he who preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception of God."
I dunno why we r quoting Einstein like an undisputed God now. Abt the name thats k, I like Sri rather than doing it as "Sree". I hope u wont mind.
U need more insight of Ayurveda then. How does a simple mix of Tulsi,Badam with milk translates to a "Formula". Wud u like to explain??vyasram said:Now, ur onto ayurveda/siddha medicine. A lot of people I know have taken them and got good results. Those medicines are prepared by careful research in SCIENCE and then administered. But the researches are so paranoid that they wont let out their formulae to the outside world. That's why it looks like a miracle to you, though it isnt. Allopathy isn't the only medicine out there.
And about ur comments part, I really wont like to degrade myself to that level where a person speculates what the opponent did in his skool days and characterizes like @Srivirusaaya Namah said. I guess u need a first hand experience of spiritual stuff. Start with simple meditation!!