Religion, do we really need it ?

[Anorion]

^yea its relIgion is abused, but even science is abused equally for the same reasons. Doesent matter if a hack is sellIng HD contact lenses or unani ankh surakhsha, hacks r gonna b hacks
yes religious texts are dated but there are bits in em that are timeless
@whitestar: fair point !
@gopi_vbboy: the rise of vedanta (not to be confus with vedic civilisation) is a post mideval phenomenon, but yeah agree with all your entire post
Religion is not so bad maybe its still relevent on a community level just more festivals cant blv some of you had prolems with holidays

 

[gopi_vbboy]

interesting!which religion are you referring to because bhagwat gita & vedas are older than the origin of term "hindu" & there is no concrete evidence that vedic culture follows any of the known religion currently.unless more is known about vedic culture it is better to leave it out of religious debates.

Ofcourse its hinduism.

Your logic is so silly.Its like saying digit 0 was invented first so the number 100 is not at all related to it.

For centuries, religion has been a great method to unify people. Think of the time when humans used to live in tribes. All tribes used to fight each other over land, resources etc but when the concept of Gods or religion came into existence, these people unified under the name of religion whether it was Christianity, Greek Pantheon or Nordic Gods.

Also, religion has been a great tool to control un-educated people in the name of what will happen after death. Since they don't know what will happen to them after death, they think they should do as their religion dictates so as to have a better afterlife on which they have no control. They only have control over their existing life.

Besides, it is always easy to blame God for something. If some year rain did not happen on time, you could blame the God and say "They are angry". Similarly, if you fail in an exam you can say "God wasn't with me" etc etc. When was the last time you said "It was God's will due to which I topped all over India in an exam and not my hard work"

Today, with science and education and "reason for something happening", people are forgetting religion which I think is a good move for humanity as a species.

To proceed further we need evolution and scientific discoveries and not belief in someone sitting in the clouds who will punish you if you do some sin, but he loves you.

Also, the worst thing is to mold a religion according to yourself. If people say that they follow Bible or Geeta or Veda, than why do they modify some rules written there? For example, it is written in Geeta that during fast, you are not supposed to eat anything for 24 hrs in a day. This actually has a scientific meaning as due to this you digest all the undigested food and cleanse your body of impurities completely. However, peple still say eating fruits etc is permitted. I ask where???

Just cos some rules are not convenient, people mold or change it. If they do it, they are not following religion properly. If you say you are following the book than follow the book properly without any modification to the rules.

Those religious texts were written thousands of years ago for that society. Is it still applicable? Humanity has changed so the rules of those book and teachings don't apply today. People need to understand this. No religion or book in this world tells to kill in the name of God. People still kill in the name of God which makes me believe they don't follow any religion and are doing this just for their personal gains and covering it with the name of religion.

Have a look at entire history of humanity. Economy has driven and influenced religion everywhere.

In the end, True God and religion in this world, in my opinion, are your parents. They bought you to this world. They raised you and gave you resources to be what you are today and not any imaginary guy sitting in the sky. (we know there is no one in the sky. It is empty space). If you want to have faith in someone or worship someone, go do it to your parents. There is nothing bigger than them in this world.

P.S - Off topic, but once I met father of one of my friend. He is a pretty rich businessman. So this one time we were talking about him donating to some NGO of his son's friend for educating kids. This was an actually genuine NGO and not some fake one for tax benefit or making money. My friend's dad refused saying it is fake and he doesn't want to waste his money.

Next month, he did a jagrata which I think cost over Rs 20 lakh. Although a person is entitled to spend his hard earned money the way he wants, but I found his this act stupid and I no longer respect him. It was better to educate some poor slum kids than wasting money on rituals of an imaginary god.

Yes you seems to be inspired by the story Lord ganapathi and his father Shiva who gives him Mango for considering parents as the world.I Agree worshiping parents is the best thing.

Its mistake of your friends father .I know a person who is also pretty rich , he conducts bhajans in his house for simple reason -to spread the culture of this bhajans.

I also know a person who goes for bhajans, earn 300 - 500 in every one of them and sends those money by DD to his aunt(cos his son left him without caring-blame atheism for that).He believes money earned from doing bhajans should not be used for personal purpose instead for helping.

 

[gxsaurav]

Yes you seems to be inspired by the story Lord ganapathi and his father Shiva who gives him Mango for considering parents as the world.I Agree worshiping parents is the best thing.

umm..... non-religious guy here. I don't even know what that story is, neither I want to know.

 

[whitestar_999]

Ofcourse its hinduism.

Your logic is so silly.Its like saying digit 0 was invented first so the number 100 is not at all related to it.

my mistake!i didn't knew you had/pursuing a doctorate in religion/religious studies from an accredited university.*sarcasm*

anyway i will not engage further in this discussion with you as i have already guessed your intellectual caliber.meaningful debate can only be among equals so my best wishes to you in finding those of your caliber here.

 

[Liverpool_fan]

yes you need to extract the good out of religion instead of being atheist n living in bliss.

That's all good in theory but in practice people will tend to "extract" those things which are convenient to them. This is where blind faith, fundementalism, intolerance, etc. can kick in and religion is nice pretext for doing anything.

 

[dashing.sujay]

That's all good in theory but in practice people will tend to "extract" those things which are convenient to them.

This is Kaliyug!

 

[Liverpool_fan]

my mistake!i didn't knew you had/pursuing a doctorate in religion/religious studies from an accredited university.*sarcasm*

anyway i will not engage further in this discussion with you as i have already guessed your intellectual caliber.meaningful debate can only be among equals so my best wishes to you in finding those of your caliber here.

Keep such crap out of this thread. If you want to argue, argue with facts and figures not by some idiotic sarcy crap.

 

[Desmond]

Edit: Did not read previous replies, please forgive me.

I'd answer Yes and no.

We might not feel the need for religion now. But, when I am going to die, I'd like to hope that there is a place I'd be going where there is no more suffering and pain, instead of a void, cataclysmic collapse of existence, which it actually is.

Whether God exists or not can only be speculated. There is absolutely no way of knowing whether God is really at the light at the end of the tunnel...unless you die, of course. Therefore, no one has seen God (or God doesn't want to be seen) and all that you have heard about God is from man. So, you are , in fact, believing in a concept of God as perceived by the person you learnt it from, who in turn learnt it from someone who told him and so forth till the annals of history which is now lost.

People need religion as a guide to live their life in an ordered manner. It is common knowledge that (majority of) humans, like cattle, need to be guided, shown the way and will believe anything and look to anyone for guidance. This could be due to the passively inquisitive nature of human beings, causing them to attempt to make order of the chaos around them. In such a scenario, it is always possible for other influential people to take advantage of them. Therefore, we can see religion as a tool of control. If you convince someone of a higher power, he will believe in it and if you convince him hard enough, he might fight for it as well. Giving rise to crusades/holy wars, etc. This would be a good example of religious abuse.

The world without a religion would be a world devoid of morality and ethics (though it seems like the world is moving towards such a scenario). The world would be even more dangerous without religion than with it IMHO. If everyone knew that there will be no retribution for their actions, people would resort to despicable deeds the magnitude of which we cannot comprehend.

Therefore, I think religion is needed a lot more than we think. Irrespective of whether God exists or not or whether it is hogwash created by man to control other men.

 

[whitestar_999]

Keep such crap out of this thread. If you want to argue, argue with facts and figures not by some idiotic sarcy crap.

couldn't said it better.hope you apply this good advice to yourself before posting next time.btw regarding my reply to @gopi_vbboy,regarding academic matters especially controversial ones like this tone of authority only befits those competent enough which @gopi_vbboy certainly isn't hence the sarcasm regarding the comment"ofcourse,its hinduism".the same principle applies to you too.do not confuse your authority here with your competence in academic matters.looks like time to check out of this thread.maybe a few years later it will be a bit better here.

P.S.arguing with facts & figures is done when the other party is also doing the same thing & not making comments like"ofcourse i am correct & your logic is silly".if @gopi_vbboy had replied with some fact citing some credible source that hindu religion is same as vedic culture which many consider a philosophy/way of life & not exactly a religion per se then my reply would have been different.

 

[clmlbx]

You fail to understand that Religion is form of humanity.You put money in temple.They feed ppl in prasadams.Isnt that humanity?

I believe you failed to understand, you say people gives money to temple then temple donates it or feed hungry people, If it is, so why do you need to pass money through temple, can't people directly donate it to NGO or some social group which helps people.. and I never said it is not humanity but why do you need temple(or say name of GOD) to help people.

Religion is not a guidline how to live.Instead think of it as an encyclopedia of life.Religious text like Bhagvat gita teaches you morals of living and many other aspects.Vedas are huge source of information.

what does religion says? Every book says do this do that if you want good life or even after life. or teaches some important morals with stories. This happened because he lied or he had to do that becuase it was truth and no matter how hard your path is but you can't leave truth or humanity..

yes, it also share some way to pray to God, but it also says God is everywhere,God created us, God hears every one so why do you need to be in some specific place or dress code to pray to him.

For centuries, religion has been a great method to unify people. Think of the time when humans used to live in tribes. All tribes used to fight each other over land, resources etc but when the concept of Gods or religion came into existence, these people unified under the name of religion whether it was Christianity, Greek Pantheon or Nordic Gods.

But there were many fakers too who just did this just get in power.

Also, religion has been a great tool to control un-educated people in the name of what will happen after death. Since they don't know what will happen to them after death, they think they should do as their religion dictates so as to have a better afterlife on which they have no control. They only have control over their existing life.

If we do follow religion because of this then it will be like taking advantage of people.

Today, with science and education and "reason for something happening", people are forgetting religion which I think is a good move for humanity as a species.



To proceed further we need evolution and scientific discoveries and not belief in someone sitting in the clouds who will punish you if you do some sin, but he loves you.

that is good thing, and you need to ask questions if you want evolve,improve. same thing we say kids ask questions just not stay with "It is GOD decision/choice"

Also, the worst thing is to mold a religion according to yourself. If people say that they follow Bible or Geeta or Veda, than why do they modify some rules written there? For example, it is written in Geeta that during fast, you are not supposed to eat anything for 24 hrs in a day. This actually has a scientific meaning as due to this you digest all the undigested food and cleanse your body of impurities completely. However, peple still say eating fruits etc is permitted. I ask where???
Just cos some rules are not convenient, people mold or change it. If they do it, they are not following religion properly. If you say you are following the book than follow the book properly without any modification to the rules.

absolutely, No normal (I am excluding People like pandits, maulvis they might)human being follows any-their religion fully..

Those religious texts were written thousands of years ago for that society. Is it still applicable? Humanity has changed so the rules of those book and teachings don't apply today. People need to understand this. No religion or book in this world tells to kill in the name of God. People still kill in the name of God which makes me believe they don't follow any religion and are doing this just for their personal gains and covering it with the name of religion.

+1, Even I said before, these rituals were written thousand of years ago. with different time,live styles, many, if not most of them are meaningless, faded with time..

.

In the end, True God and religion in this world, in my opinion, are your parents. They bought you to this world. They raised you and gave you resources to be what you are today and not any imaginary guy sitting in the sky. (we know there is no one in the sky. It is empty space). If you want to have faith in someone or worship someone, go do it to your parents. There is nothing bigger than them in this world.

can't say enough about this,

.
P.S - Off topic, but once I met father of one of my friend. He is a pretty rich businessman. So this one time we were talking about him donating to some NGO of his son's friend for educating kids. This was an actually genuine NGO and not some fake one for tax benefit or making money. My friend's dad refused saying it is fake and he doesn't want to waste his money.

Next month, he did a jagrata which I think cost over Rs 20 lakh. Although a person is entitled to spend his hard earned money the way he wants, but I found his this act stupid and I no longer respect him. It was better to educate some poor slum kids than wasting money on rituals of an imaginary god.

+1. another thing is after death most of them don't donate their organs, which they should do, There is no gain in burning or burying the Body but if you Donate you can save many lives.

Pls OP or Mod add poll to this thread.. their are three type of people in this discussion..

1. No religion No God
2. With God but No religion
3. support both God and Religion

 

[dashing.sujay]

couldn't said it better.hope you apply this good advice to yourself before posting next time.btw regarding my reply to @gopi_vbboy,regarding academic matters especially controversial ones like this tone of authority only befits those competent enough which @gopi_vbboy certainly isn't hence the sarcasm regarding the comment"ofcourse,its hinduism".the same principle applies to you too.do not confuse your authority here with your competence in academic matters.looks like time to check out of this thread.maybe a few years later it will be a bit better here.

P.s.arguing with facts & figures is done when the other party is also doing the same thing & not making comments like"ofcourse i am correct & your logic is silly".if @gopi_vbboy had replied with some fact citing some credible source that hindu religion is same as vedic culture which many consider a philosophy/way of life & not exactly a religion per se then my reply would have been different.

+ 10000

 

[gopi_vbboy]

couldn't said it better.hope you apply this good advice to yourself before posting next time.btw regarding my reply to @gopi_vbboy,regarding academic matters especially controversial ones like this tone of authority only befits those competent enough which @gopi_vbboy certainly isn't hence the sarcasm regarding the comment"ofcourse,its hinduism".the same principle applies to you too.do not confuse your authority here with your competence in academic matters.looks like time to check out of this thread.maybe a few years later it will be a bit better here.

P.S.arguing with facts & figures is done when the other party is also doing the same thing & not making comments like"ofcourse i am correct & your logic is silly".if @gopi_vbboy had replied with some fact citing some credible source that hindu religion is same as vedic culture which many consider a philosophy/way of life & not exactly a religion per se then my reply would have been different.

Dude, Your argument was that vedas originated in time older than the time origin of Hinduism and hence both are not related.

Just explain me how is that correct.

Just wiki Rig Veda and you can see that under Hinduism section.Is it not enough to prove your false notion.

 

[Faun]

The world without a religion would be a world devoid of morality and ethics (though it seems like the world is moving towards such a scenario). The world would be even more dangerous without religion than with it IMHO. If everyone knew that there will be no retribution for their actions, people would resort to despicable deeds the magnitude of which we cannot comprehend.

Cool blanket assumption there. Which religion a bird follows, which religion an animal follows. I guess they must be living in a world devoid of morality and ethics.

There is inherent goodness in everyone which speaks louder than what religion teaches or indoctrinate.

Religion is more like tribe where you tribe is more ethical and supreme than others. Given a chance you would promptly wipe out the competition.

 

[whitestar_999]

vedas are older than the origin of term hindustan so how can you conclusively said that vedic culture/traditions are in fact hindu culture/traditions.when vedas were written what was the religion followed is still not known to this day.there are doubts even regarding the aryan invasion theory & that aryans were the ones who bought vedic culture to india.indus civilization followed which religion is still not known & there are theories that indus/harappa civilizations were replaced by vedic culture.when there are so many controversies/doubts surrounding vedic culture/aryans/... then why gave the example of vedas/gita as hindu religious texts.why do you think gita is so popular even abroad if it is purely a religious text?it is not as it is a way of life/philosophy which can be appreciated by any person irrespective of his/her religious affiliation.labeling such text as religious is what i do not support.i have no problem with your arguments as long as they cite texts of conclusive religious origins like bible,kuran etc.

 

[gopi_vbboy]

I believe you failed to understand, you say people gives money to temple then temple donates it or feed hungry people, If it is, so why do you need to pass money through temple, can't people directly donate it to NGO or some social group which helps people.. and I never said it is not humanity but why do you need temple(or say name of GOD) to help people.

Temple is not only to help people.It's part of the temples activity to help people.

What is wrong if we help through temple in the name of God.If we help through temple, it gives some people a feeling that god will bless us.Some people believe it helps to overcome their sins.The reason depends on person.

Tell me one reason what is wrong if you help in name of god.

 

[Anorion]

@wut whitestar posted: absolutely hinduism as we know it has been around for only 400-500 yrs
@Faun: they are all not so incompatible, all religions have adapted to local customs, so the worship of dieties is not restricted to any one religion, many overlap. Also, war is no longer really an option. So dialogue is the only way to solve these Prolems
@temples: the biggest temples have upkeep and are involved in many charitable works not just feeding the poor, they were doing the work of NGOs before the NGOs and through many Gs
@rituals fading with time.... Just chuck out "dont pee standing up" but accept "always choose the good way over the pleasant way" you wont find th latter without trudging through the former (although it may hve some health benefits. Its a window to somethings about the world that will never change .

 

[Tech&ME]

ok

I am late in this discussion but anyway my views are as follows:

GOD : Is an imaginary / man made figure which the human-kind believes to be supreme.

RELIGION: Followers of this imaginary / man made figure, who divide themselves into groups of humans, viz Hindus / Muslims / Sikhs / Christian / etc.

Q : Why humans felt for the earge to create this imaginary / man made figure called GOD ?

A: To instill FEAR among humans. There are numerous SIN (s) done by humans, so to keep a check on it, GOD was created.

It is very likely that a human who has committed a SIN will likely repeat it if this human start to believe in GOD and eventually also start to afraid from this imaginary GOD.

In the present world human have become more powerful and knowledgeable with the advent of science and technology taking much of the space in our day-to-day life and the present human-being seems to have NO FEAR from this imaginary GOD, because somehow, this present human-being discoverd that even if you commit a crime or SIN , there is no requirement to be afraid from anyone, because we can get pass it easily. [ criminals today can bribe and get pass their committed crime/ SIN to do more crime, this is the fate of affairs in the present world ]

Q : Why people divided themselves in groups viz Hindus / Muslims / Sikhs / etc.

A: This happened due to geographical locations of the human settlement. However, the message given by all this religions are basically the same -- "To FEAR from GOD" which in the present day scenario is obsolete.

Since, it is obsolete, we don't really need ANY Religion, whatsoever.

 

[doomgiver]

ok

I am late in this discussion but anyway my views are as follows:

GOD : Is an imaginary / man made figure which the human-kind believes to be supreme.

RELIGION: Followers of this imaginary / man made figure, who divide themselves into groups of humans, viz Hindus / Muslims / Sikhs / Christian / etc.

Q : Why humans felt for the earge to create this imaginary / man made figure called GOD ?

A: To instill FEAR among humans. There are numerous SIN (s) done by humans, so to keep a check on it, GOD was created.
to exploit the ignorant, and browbeat them into submission
It is very likely that a human who has committed a SIN will likely repeat it if this human start to believe in GOD and eventually also start to afraid from this imaginary GOD.

Q : Why people divided themselves in groups viz Hindus / Muslims / Sikhs / etc.

A: This happened due to geographical locations of the human settlement. However, the message given by all this religions are basically the same -- "To FEAR from GOD" which in the present day scenario is obsolete.
not really, all religions are not equal. look at the bullshit being fed to hindus and christians.
muslims dont have that much crap in their islam, but the entire religion is controlled by power hungry control freaks who want everyone to toe the line, at the cost of freedom.
Since, it is obsolete, we don't really need ANY Religion, whatsoever.

replies in blue italics

 

[Anorion]

^thats a horribly wrong understanding there are many ways to live your life, not just that one deemed "normal" by the west and its not like civilisation is giving us unswers human trchnology isnt even good enough to get the food and power v nid from the earth, at such times naked forest dwellers would surely have some protips for us

 

[Faun]

@Faun: they are all not so incompatible, all religions have adapted to local customs, so the worship of dieties is not restricted to any one religion, many overlap. Also, war is no longer really an option. So dialogue is the only way to solve these Prolems

Lets talk about the number of inter religion marriages Not so incompatible.