Hardware that you should NOT buy

[Faun]

^^cool. I plan to buy in sep.

 

[coderunknown]

but its better to have a card that have a full cover. not semi one like Cyclone or Twin Frozer II heatsink. cause hot air isn't thrown out of cabby by the card itself. in case of tkin's card, now the hot air leaves the cabinet & so his card runs at much lower temperature.

 

[funkysourav]

but its better to have a card that have a full cover. not semi one like Cyclone or Twin Frozer II heatsink. cause hot air isn't thrown out of cabby by the card itself. in case of tkin's card, now the hot air leaves the cabinet & so his card runs at much lower temperature.

sounds a logical theory,
but you have to give evidence to back it up!!

 

[coderunknown]

sounds a logical theory,
but you have to give evidence to back it up!!

no evidence or link to back up my claim. cause reviews are done in open table tops or some open cabinets (Antec Skeleton) along with AC on. so a open or semi covered graphics card have full advantage here. suck in cool air. & throw it out. the hot air will rise up. so the card runs at 70-75 degree. whereas a fully covered card, due to its design (the fan & shound) will not be able suck in lots of air (or if it does will make sound like a loose fan). this is exactly what we see/read in reviews. be it anandtech, tom's hardware, Guru 3D, or any other site.

ok now this what happens in real. typical Indian condition. 30degree C or above. cabinet with bad ventilation (how many have cabinet with proper or good airflow?). card is upside down (the fan facing down. in reviews, fan is sideways) so if theres no side fan or even if there is, the card gets less fresh air. the card cools itself. but again cause of cramped cabinets, most of hot air circles around the card itself, rather than rising up. now think cooling a card that runs at well over 100degree with 50-60 degree C hot air? what result will you get? same as the Palit. now replace the card with the XFX one. central fan position & full shound. the card sucks in air from the fan & also near the power connector (theres a small gap) & throws out through the large vent at back. now cause most hot air out of the cabinet, card as well as processor runs cooler.

PS: if you need claim, i think theres nothing better than to compare tkin's present & last card.

 

[funkysourav]

card is upside down (the fan facing down. in reviews, fan is sideways)
PS: if you need claim, i think theres nothing better than to compare tkin's present & last card.

hmmm
i didn't know that the fan can be set sideways,
it should always be upside down!!!

it is wrong to come to this conclusion based on tkin's system!
hd5800 series are cool and quiet performers
whereas fermi is an overheating overconsuming bunch(but they perform better )
it has got nothing to do with the form factor of the card!!

 

[tkin]

hmmm
i didn't know that the fan can be set sideways,
it should always be upside down!!!

it is wrong to come to this conclusion based on tkin's system!
hd5800 series are cool and quiet performers
whereas fermi is an overheating overconsuming bunch(but they perform better )
it has got nothing to do with the form factor of the card!!

Well what he is trying to point out is absolutely right, let me explain the scenario in detail.

Review environment: Open case, the motherboard lies flat on the table(over a soft anti-static plate), the ambient is usually 20-25c(or lower), also the CPU either uses liquid cooling or high performance air cooler(in all reviews you can see this), motherboard is high end sometimes with copper heatpipe based cooling, the SMPS is kept away from the system, all the heat generated by the SMPS never reaches the system.


Typical home user(india): Closed cabby, poor airflow, ambient is 30c+(here it reaches 35-38c in summer), cpu uses stock cooler so heat dumped in cabby, SMPS in system so some heat affect the components, now add to that optical drives and HDDs also generating heat and obstructing airflow you get a pretty hot cabby.

Now, if your card dumps the heat in the cabby it affects all the components along the card(the GPU draws max power among all components), this is what palit or msi GTX460 does, to remove this heat you'll need a bottom mount fan(most high end cases have these) and set it to exhaust, also a side fan near the GPU that draws in fresh air can help a lot.

My cabby is a cheap one, so no bottom fan, side intake helps lower the temps a bit, but a fully internal exhaust GPU will heat up my cabby and the internal components too much(eg MSI cyclone, palit GTX460).

PS: You can get a rough idea from my system because in reviews GTX460 temps are actually in line with HD5850 temperatures, the new GF104 cheap is a lot cooler, yet it heats up like hell due to a faulty bios in my case.

 

[funkysourav]

^^^^
hmmm!!!
you've got me thinking!!
sammy's points are valid indeed!!
i am at a fix now,
considering the indian summers,
what should i get now!!
should i get an msi reference hd5770 or hawk(which costs 300Rs extra)
the cabinet will be CM Elite 310(includes only one exhaust fan)
should i consider nzxt gamma(which isn't available)?
or add a high speed 120 mm non led fan near pci slot and front of cabby?(which adds another 500Rs to the setup)
but don't seem to reduce temps at all(as evident from Mukherjee's post in GTx 460 dicussion
@tkin
what temps are you getting at load now?

 

[tkin]

^^^^
hmmm!!!
you've got me thinking!!
sammy's points are valid indeed!!
i am at a fix now,
considering the indian summers,
what should i get now!!
should i get an msi reference hd5770 or hawk(which costs 300Rs extra)
the cabinet will be CM Elite 310(includes only one exhaust fan)
should i consider nzxt gamma(which isn't available)?
or add a high speed 120 mm non led fan near pci slot and front of cabby?(which adds another 500Rs to the setup)
but don't seem to reduce temps at all(as evident from Mukherjee's post in GTx 460 dicussion
@tkin
what temps are you getting at load now?

This is with 1hr of BFBC2 maxed out.
*img94.imageshack.us/img94/6278/20100808123210.jpg

But note a few things, first is that my GPU cooler dumps most of the heat outside(confirmed by placing hand near the vents), second is my fanspeed is only at 33%, I can get this to 70% and go down to 75c load or lower, but with a non reference GTX460(msi cyclone/hawk) the first option is unavailable so your temps will not just be higher but also your internal components will suffer from that heat.

Your best bet is to get a cabby with a bottom mount fan and set it as exhaust so that it dumps the hot air outside that generate from you GPU, like the CM Elite 430, its 2.8 k now.

 

[topgear]

But I think it's better to keep the bottom fan as intake and the top fan as exhaust as hot air is lighter than cold air and always goes upwards - ( note I'm not a science student )

 

[Faun]

^^right, it doesn't take to be Einstein

Btw I keep my computer open.

 

[asingh]

^^
Then all exhaust / intake theories are moot....! For you..!

 

[funkysourav]

but i am still wondering about sammy's theory that
reference 5770 is more suited to Indian conditions than non reference partially shrouded ones like msi hawk
due to the fact that reference card dumps the heat outside whereas Hawk and Vapor-x models dump it inside,
thus increasing the ambient temps inside the cabby!!
does this mean we go for Non Referance model only if we have a plethora of fans inside our cabby and
referance if we don't?
i haven't found a single topic in the internet supporting his theory

 

[topgear]

From personal experience I've seen cards with reference " closed box " type coolers heats up much as compared to cards with non reference partially shrouded coolers.

Remember HD 4580 with reference coolers and non reference coolers.

Why ATI and Nvidia always use Boxed type coolers in their high end gpus - those gpus are meant to be mounted in a good cabinet with good airflow.

*www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=22128

*www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=20599

*img638.imageshack.us/img638/5586/dsc01475rk.jpg

*img808.imageshack.us/img808/504/dsc01478u.jpg

*img801.imageshack.us/img801/1738/dsc01481.jpg

posted the last 3 images from tkin's post

 

[funkysourav]

^^^^^
hmm @topgear
was thinking the same thing
but the question was which would perform better in a typical indian gaming system

(read=CM310,1 120mm exhaust fan included,2x120mm intake fans)
or(NZXT gamma with only 1 included fan, cause ran out of budget for more fans)

that is Box type reference exhausts the heated air out of cabby
while non reference msi exhausts inside the cabby
(read=CM310,1 120mm exhaust fan included,2x120mm intake fans)
or(NZXT gamma with only 1 included fan, cause ran out of budget for more fans)

 

[Faun]

^^
Then all exhaust / intake theories are moot....! For you..!

I still have a pic of my bare system, will post soon

 

[topgear]

^^^^^
hmm @topgear
was thinking the same thing
but the question was which would perform better in a typical indian gaming system

(read=CM310,1 120mm exhaust fan included,2x120mm intake fans)
or(NZXT gamma with only 1 included fan, cause ran out of budget for more fans)

that is Box type reference exhausts the heated air out of cabby
while non reference msi exhausts inside the cabby
(read=CM310,1 120mm exhaust fan included,2x120mm intake fans)
or(NZXT gamma with only 1 included fan, cause ran out of budget for more fans)

Use the CM Elite 310 cabby or you can always take the fans from the CM elite 310 and fit them into your NZXT gamma.

closed box type rear exhaust cards will heat up much but will keep your other components cool - read cpu, mobos etc.

partially shrouded coolers will dissipate some of the heat inside of the cabby and raise the cpu temp by 2-3 deg but on the other hand will keep the gfx card more cool.

Do keep in mind it also depends upoin the GPU itself too as not all gpus consume same amount of power and don't generate same amount of heat.

If you want to use a HD5770 like card inside a CM elite 310 like cabby then I think it's better to get cards like MSI HAWK.

One best trick to lower your system and the gpu temp is place a 80 mm fan in exhaust mode at the back side of the cabby - remove all the rear expansion plates of the cabby to do so.

 

[funkysourav]

Use the CM Elite 310 cabby or you can always take the fans from the CM elite 310 and fit them into your NZXT gamma.

closed box type rear exhaust cards will heat up much but will keep your other components cool - read cpu, mobos etc.

partially shrouded coolers will dissipate some of the heat inside of the cabby and raise the cpu temp by 2-3 deg but on the other hand will keep the gfx card more cool.

Do keep in mind it also depends upoin the GPU itself too as not all gpus consume same amount of power and don't generate same amount of heat.

If you want to use a HD5770 like card inside a CM elite 310 like cabby then I think it's better to get cards like MSI HAWK.

One best trick to lower your system and the gpu temp is place a 80 mm fan in exhaust mode at the back side of the cabby - remove all the rear expansion plates of the cabby to do so.

i haven't bought my system yet
the dealer is taking unnecessarily long sourcing the parts
especially the graphics card and psu
but that's okay, i don't mind waiting a little

i was contemplating whether to go for CM elite 310 or NZXT Gamma

if i get cm310 without plexi window@1.6k ,
i will have 500 bucks to spare
to get 2 120mm fans(front and side intake)
and there's 1 exhaust fan included in 310

however if i get Gamma@2.3k(scarcely available)
i wont have enough left for extra fans

 

[tkin]

If you buy HD5770 then be warned about the issues that you may face.

 

[Zangetsu]

If you buy HD5770 then be warned about the issues that you may face.

not to worry..the 5770 cards manufactured after Feb2010...r less prone to
the gray bug....

 

[tkin]

not to worry..the 5770 cards manufactured after Feb2010...r less prone to
the gray bug....

Yet a bunch of posts about HD5770 bugs are cropping up everywhere, its always a gamble with HD5xxx cards, mine was non reference version and said ver 3.1 on the box, but it had that issue(although sometimes I feel that I've never tested the issue thoroughly and sent away a perfectly fine card, the guys there said this is the first HD5850 that was being rma'd(and only one HD5770 had been rma'd so far), maybe msi kombustor killed my card?? Gonna stay away from kombustor and furmark from now on.