gopi_vbboy
Cyborg Agent
Back to economy , sensex falls 600+ points on fear of syria war. Damn you war mongers.
Debates about the Economy, Politics, Religion, and everything under the sun
- Thread starter theserpent
- Start date
theterminator
Wise Old Owl
That's what you may think. Quite literally, that is how you mock a religion FYI may be because you haven't read the rationale behind that. If you declare that you have read every single piece of text available in Hinduism from ancient times & then come up with this statement that there is nothing sacred in this universe then only it can be termed as a viewpoint otherwise you're ignoring it. Also, include the things which came to your mind while writing that line
Huh,What? That ain't true & can only be said by one who is not aware of the text. Once again, have you read all those texts?
Last edited:
asingh
Aspiring Novelist
Those texts hold no value anymore, unless it is for the vedic rituals and ceremonies like marriage. The absence of mention of the archaic practices (or misuse) still does not justify what is done in the name of religion -all- of them.
asingh
Aspiring Novelist
Actually cows got the status cause during the old (sic.?) times they were gifted to temples and Brahmins as gifts. Later on killing a cow became equivalent to killing a Brahmin priest. This is how religion transgresses from text---->culture--->habit--->ideology--->rule de facto. Also for the obvious reasons of providing milk/daily products/dung which necessitate agrarian lifestyle.
theterminator
Wise Old Owl
Hmm. Go read them first & then decide whether they hold any value or not. You need to get the original Gita , not which are easily available in the market for they are interpreted by different saints which have some inconsistencies
.Oh, I get it. Such quotes don't hold any value anymore.
Also their piss man... which animals' piss is considered sacred?
.What the Indian Economy can do now? Are there alternatives to the Congress that are worth going for? What will Modi do if he becomes PM? Will there be a guarantee that Modi will be the PM if BJP is in a majority?
Last edited:
Indian Economy Going down
This thread is crazy. It starts off about the economy, becomes a political argument and is now headed a religious way?
I know this is the fight club, but come on.
I'm not here to close it, but I would like to add my two cents in the hope of perhaps bringing a new perspective that might resonate with a few of you.
Arguing in favour of any political party these days makes it look like you have a vested interest. Personally I'd prefer army rule for a decade, with army style justice for offenders. Want a quick fix to our problems, take away our "freedom". I expect hate replies for this, but hear me out:
I've been abroad often, and even lived there for many years. One thing I always did was follow the behaviour of people on my flight. I used to especially look at the labourer class. They would spit outside the airport, eat something and leave the table dirty, go into the airport loos and leave it filthy for the next person, just throw wrappers everywhere, you get the drift. Upon arrival at the destination - here it's mostly gulf countries that I've been to - the behaviour changes drastically. They're as caring as every citizen should be, even the loos are clean when they finish with them, and I've seen them actively hunting for dustbins. I remember one chap actually asked me to confirm whether what was before him was actually a dustbin, or not. I talked to many of them, asking them why they would litter our country, and not another's. They all said they were warned by family and friends not to, or else they might be deported, jailed, fined, etc.
Fear works in India, nothing else. It's that simple. If you fear for your life or money (the only two things all us Indians value unanimously), you suddenly become straight. Threaten to take away someone's life or money unless he follows the rules, and bam, you have ordered society. Maybe Modi is not what Congress claims he is, maybe Congress leadership is not as corrupt as the scams indicate, but does that mean absolutely anything for you or me? It doesn't change that the on ground support for all of these individuals are nothing more than thugs and crooks. The lower party workers who are actually supposed to implement the ideals of the party, just never do, because they feel too important to care.
For example, those campaigning for BJP here, (I only use them as an example because they're not in power at the moment) next time you see any car with a proud BJP sticker on it, driven by someone important, and he cuts you off in traffic, or jumps a signal, try stopping him and telling him to follow the traffic rules, and say you are a BJP supporter, and that he is bringing shame to the party you support. Who wants to bet against the outcome I predict? You will be told to FO politely, or maybe even slapped for wasting an "important person's time". Now take that statement, and apply it to all positions of power. Not just all parties, but all God men, all movie stars, all self-obsessed people who think they have power - rich businessmen, or their sons, taxi drivers who are in unions, anyone!
The point is, if you think any one of these parties gives a hoot about any of us, you probably also believe in fairy tales. The local corporator might care, because he wants to be elected, and might listen for 10 minutes and make empty promises, but only if it happens to be election time, or you come across as someone who might be able to help him garner votes. Do exceptions exist? I am sure they do, and those poor people have thankless jobs, because they will always be a minority. Politics is the most power hungry game of all, and none of these people are in it to do good for this country, and certainly not you and me specifically. They hanker for power and fame, like to feel important, like to be called sahab, don't want to wait in lines, and feel entitled. Almost ALL OF THEM.
Now coming to Religion. An overwhelming majority of deaths that occur in the world, and that have occurred, are because of religion. Not one religion, but ALL religions. The number may vary, but historically, the Christian religion that I was born into, and have since shunned, seems to have caused the most genocide thus far, but the others seem to want to catch up, for some insane reason - as if this was a race any sane society would want to win!
It's also such a weird thing, because all religions basically offer comfort for those worried about death, and preach peace, and yet have the distinction of causing the majority of unnatural deaths amongst humans. It's a bargaining chip used by political parties, your friends, parents, and almost everyone you meet to try and get you to conform, when every religion always states that being forced into anything is just wrong. It should be something that's personal, but is brandished about proudly, certainly more proudly than your citizenship.
I am not anti-god (whatever form or name you want to use for him or her, I accept them all with open arms), I am just against the organised religion of today. I am against blindly following something you were born into and didn't choose, against the whole debate of faiths - as if one faith could ever be more real or better than another faith. The very word faith implies that you believe it implicitly, and yet we try and argue for or against the faiths of people?
Why humanity insists on finding ways to divide itself into finer chunks is a mystery to me, but we do - language, regions, social standing, clubs, religion, sect within said religion, gender, and God knows how many more. Yet we all know this, and instead of getting more personally involved with our God or religion at home, and being more Indian outside, we increasingly allow exactly the opposite. We vote for political thugs, make friends, hire people, fire people, fight with people, hate, love, etc., based on these perceived differences. Is this logical to everyone? Does faith have to come with blinders attached?
Everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want, why does it have to come at the cost of forcing others to believe as well? Can the supreme beings we hold so holy really be so shallow as to punish you for praying to the wrong idol or book in the wrong building? Do they all damn entire communities to hell because they were all born into the wrong family? Does the life you lead and the choices you make play no role in deciding whether you are worthy of an afterlife, if one exists?
Just some food for thought for you guys, in the hope that we can be a little more accepting of others' views on faith, no matter how ridiculous we feel they are, and yes, I would classify faith in a political party, on the same level as faith in a supreme being - for every argument that you can ever produce to support your statement, someone else can do the same for his - because (and I repeat) faith by its very definition is unshakeable belief with no proof required - so why try?
This thread is crazy. It starts off about the economy, becomes a political argument and is now headed a religious way?
I know this is the fight club, but come on.
I'm not here to close it, but I would like to add my two cents in the hope of perhaps bringing a new perspective that might resonate with a few of you.
Arguing in favour of any political party these days makes it look like you have a vested interest. Personally I'd prefer army rule for a decade, with army style justice for offenders. Want a quick fix to our problems, take away our "freedom". I expect hate replies for this, but hear me out:
I've been abroad often, and even lived there for many years. One thing I always did was follow the behaviour of people on my flight. I used to especially look at the labourer class. They would spit outside the airport, eat something and leave the table dirty, go into the airport loos and leave it filthy for the next person, just throw wrappers everywhere, you get the drift. Upon arrival at the destination - here it's mostly gulf countries that I've been to - the behaviour changes drastically. They're as caring as every citizen should be, even the loos are clean when they finish with them, and I've seen them actively hunting for dustbins. I remember one chap actually asked me to confirm whether what was before him was actually a dustbin, or not. I talked to many of them, asking them why they would litter our country, and not another's. They all said they were warned by family and friends not to, or else they might be deported, jailed, fined, etc.
Fear works in India, nothing else. It's that simple. If you fear for your life or money (the only two things all us Indians value unanimously), you suddenly become straight. Threaten to take away someone's life or money unless he follows the rules, and bam, you have ordered society. Maybe Modi is not what Congress claims he is, maybe Congress leadership is not as corrupt as the scams indicate, but does that mean absolutely anything for you or me? It doesn't change that the on ground support for all of these individuals are nothing more than thugs and crooks. The lower party workers who are actually supposed to implement the ideals of the party, just never do, because they feel too important to care.
For example, those campaigning for BJP here, (I only use them as an example because they're not in power at the moment) next time you see any car with a proud BJP sticker on it, driven by someone important, and he cuts you off in traffic, or jumps a signal, try stopping him and telling him to follow the traffic rules, and say you are a BJP supporter, and that he is bringing shame to the party you support. Who wants to bet against the outcome I predict? You will be told to FO politely, or maybe even slapped for wasting an "important person's time". Now take that statement, and apply it to all positions of power. Not just all parties, but all God men, all movie stars, all self-obsessed people who think they have power - rich businessmen, or their sons, taxi drivers who are in unions, anyone!
The point is, if you think any one of these parties gives a hoot about any of us, you probably also believe in fairy tales. The local corporator might care, because he wants to be elected, and might listen for 10 minutes and make empty promises, but only if it happens to be election time, or you come across as someone who might be able to help him garner votes. Do exceptions exist? I am sure they do, and those poor people have thankless jobs, because they will always be a minority. Politics is the most power hungry game of all, and none of these people are in it to do good for this country, and certainly not you and me specifically. They hanker for power and fame, like to feel important, like to be called sahab, don't want to wait in lines, and feel entitled. Almost ALL OF THEM.
Now coming to Religion. An overwhelming majority of deaths that occur in the world, and that have occurred, are because of religion. Not one religion, but ALL religions. The number may vary, but historically, the Christian religion that I was born into, and have since shunned, seems to have caused the most genocide thus far, but the others seem to want to catch up, for some insane reason - as if this was a race any sane society would want to win!
It's also such a weird thing, because all religions basically offer comfort for those worried about death, and preach peace, and yet have the distinction of causing the majority of unnatural deaths amongst humans. It's a bargaining chip used by political parties, your friends, parents, and almost everyone you meet to try and get you to conform, when every religion always states that being forced into anything is just wrong. It should be something that's personal, but is brandished about proudly, certainly more proudly than your citizenship.
I am not anti-god (whatever form or name you want to use for him or her, I accept them all with open arms), I am just against the organised religion of today. I am against blindly following something you were born into and didn't choose, against the whole debate of faiths - as if one faith could ever be more real or better than another faith. The very word faith implies that you believe it implicitly, and yet we try and argue for or against the faiths of people?
Why humanity insists on finding ways to divide itself into finer chunks is a mystery to me, but we do - language, regions, social standing, clubs, religion, sect within said religion, gender, and God knows how many more. Yet we all know this, and instead of getting more personally involved with our God or religion at home, and being more Indian outside, we increasingly allow exactly the opposite. We vote for political thugs, make friends, hire people, fire people, fight with people, hate, love, etc., based on these perceived differences. Is this logical to everyone? Does faith have to come with blinders attached?
Everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want, why does it have to come at the cost of forcing others to believe as well? Can the supreme beings we hold so holy really be so shallow as to punish you for praying to the wrong idol or book in the wrong building? Do they all damn entire communities to hell because they were all born into the wrong family? Does the life you lead and the choices you make play no role in deciding whether you are worthy of an afterlife, if one exists?
Just some food for thought for you guys, in the hope that we can be a little more accepting of others' views on faith, no matter how ridiculous we feel they are, and yes, I would classify faith in a political party, on the same level as faith in a supreme being - for every argument that you can ever produce to support your statement, someone else can do the same for his - because (and I repeat) faith by its very definition is unshakeable belief with no proof required - so why try?
asingh
Aspiring Novelist
Better to be pragmatic and face the reality of life. It is not about me reading the original Sanskrit text. You think the people running the temples will hear the logic if I tell them that it is not written so. I am talking about daily practices of religion, which have become the norm.Hmm. Go read them first & then decide whether they hold any value or not. You need to get the original Gita , not which are easily available in the market for they are interpreted by different saints which have some inconsistencies
To be honest, they hold no value now.
It will just be another party taking over. Not a world changer. India will remain what it is.
rhitwick
Democracy is a myth
Army rule will only work as long as the leadership is benevolent and the ground workers are not corrupt. If a person can get away with it due to political/social clout or through plain old bribery a lot of the fear evaporates. If the leadership up top isn't benevolent chances are that they will continue looting the country for their own benefit. For every chance of having somebody like Ataturk or Xiaoping as a leader we also run chances of having somebody like Gadaffi on top. Even if they aren't using their position for personal benefit they may end up having various political, social or relegious ideologies they want to push, whether the people agree with it or not. An attempt to push a Pastafarian ideology into the common masses will lead to social unrest and protests against leadership that could lead to riots and insurgency, which would hardly be a fix for anything.
I happen to think that India's problems will start being fixed only when the populations physiological and safety needs are resolved, without the government having to keep them afloat through welfare schemes. Economic emancipation for the countrys poor, public campaigns promoting orderliness, better law enforcement and reduction of red tape and bureaucracy should be priority for any government, be it Congress or BJP or AAP or Lok Satta or w/e.
But for that we need to get rid of vote bank politics and the systemic corruption in this nation,
When it comes to religion I believe that Nicholas Cage is the one true god, Gabe Newell and Shigeru Miyamoto are his prophets, Satoru Iwata and Ken Kutaragi are their archangels and Sean Bean is the devil.
Flippin' warmongerers.
*profit.ndtv.com/news/forex/article...ar-nears-record-low-amid-syria-worries-326699
Bitcoin is up roughly 35% in the past 4 months, while the rupee is down 25%. Really regretting not investing in bitcoin right about now.
I happen to think that India's problems will start being fixed only when the populations physiological and safety needs are resolved, without the government having to keep them afloat through welfare schemes. Economic emancipation for the countrys poor, public campaigns promoting orderliness, better law enforcement and reduction of red tape and bureaucracy should be priority for any government, be it Congress or BJP or AAP or Lok Satta or w/e.
But for that we need to get rid of vote bank politics and the systemic corruption in this nation,
When it comes to religion I believe that Nicholas Cage is the one true god, Gabe Newell and Shigeru Miyamoto are his prophets, Satoru Iwata and Ken Kutaragi are their archangels and Sean Bean is the devil.
Flippin' warmongerers.
*profit.ndtv.com/news/forex/article...ar-nears-record-low-amid-syria-worries-326699
Bitcoin is up roughly 35% in the past 4 months, while the rupee is down 25%. Really regretting not investing in bitcoin right about now.
theterminator
Wise Old Owl
Its my last post regarding this for the sake of Raabo's perspective. It is definitely about you reading the text for you to comment & be judgmental (you did come to the conclusion that these have no value) about it. Otherwise, its shear Ignorance. As I said earlier, the practices can be misguided but that doesn't do any harm to the religion for one can always go & read whether what is being followed is correct or not.
So, we're out of Luck or say Doomed because the present leadership doesn't seem to care enough about the economic situation. They want us to fight like this & garner votes on the basis of religion/ethnicity/caste.
Agree with Raabo that fear works in India. The same Indians who will spit onto the roads will not even think of doing that while in other developed countries. Quite the same thing happens within India as well. I once happen to be in a Punjab Roadways bus. While it was standing, some guy in the back spitted pan from the window on the road. The driver immediately stepped outside & came to the same window & asked the person responsible why did you this? He took it casually as in his place (Bihar) , its not a big deal. The driver "scolded" the person & said this is not how we do here. I am not bringing Bihar to book, so please don't take it that way.
Last edited:
mediator
Technomancer
@Raaabo :
I agree on your post except for the part where "fear could be used for discipline". Since India is the country of discussion, I'd take cases from India mostly. There had been a time as per ancient knowledge and history when people used to leave their doors open and still there wouldn't be any robbery, women understood a higher purpose in life than just being a marriage material or seen as an object.
"Discipline through fear" is what has been practiced by the Britishers and continued by its fork, the Congress party. Yes, we cannot divorce politics when the talking about the nation. This is something we saw during Anna's Anshan, Ramdev's Anshan where peaceful protesters were brutally assaulted with tear gases at 1 am night killing a 51 year old lady, Rajbala. In Delhi, many people take pride in breaking traffic rules even though the fines are heavy. Fear is something that IMO has not worked on Indians for men do not join Army for low wages, but a pride, a sense of love towards their motherland.
The whole question then converges : What is this discipline that we talk about? A discipline distorted by the corruption of the ideals can become adharma as well irrespective of the fact whether its a democracy or dictatorship!
Today, from the very childhood a kid is made to believe that he has high dreams. His material desires are fulfilled by parents who out of their attachment to child's 'happiness' sacrifice his evolution of wisdom. The consequences based on this attachment accumulate where the child starts asking for more and parents spoil him more. I never had financial problems, but since childhood my favourite GI Joe (Rs.32 at that time, ~20 years back) used to be a birthday gift only. My demand for Frooti or GI Joe was replied with a simple statement "Thats too expensive" with a convincing expression and a tone that used to make me think and appreciate the value of money and parents hardwork to earn it. I can proudly say that I have never spent money on irrelevant things like "Booze, smoking, drugs, gym protiens etc". Even a pesticide and toilet cleaner like Pepsi is bought in malls and drunk like water by kids these days. A simple discussion on life consistenly to this date is what brought me closer to my roots and the voice within. In the past, a person stole a few things from the shop and was caught red handed. But a simple words on honesty from the elders afterwards, made me realize about the adharma that was committed by the guy.
Most kids do not have a sense of judgement or knowlede of righteous acts by default. It is something that needs to be taught to him by his parents or teachers! But in today's time neither parents have the time for their kids nor the teachers themselves have a knowledge of dharma (dharma is not equal to religion) or adharma. The parents don't have answers to life and many times pour out their professional depression and frustration on their personal lives, wife and kids and teachers are busy only in finishing the course instead of educating the practical value of what they are teaching. As a result, the subjects of calculus and trignometry are forgotten over the time, where they could have been used in their daily life as well and then, life becomes a slavery to corporate houses and "earning" without understanding as to why one is earning. People start doing the same thing that others are doing i.e herd mentality rather than pursuing a path that comes from within, a field that he likes. Many people say that earning is for partying, boozing, smoking etc which they call as "lifestyle". But is killing your own braincells and reducing an outlook towards life based in narrowed prism of primary outlook and attachment to the borrowed definition of "fun and entertainment" called life?
Yes laws have their own place in the so called "modern world" where progress and development have been reduced to superficial fancies and materialism. Even in sharia ruled lands, Burqa clad women are raped and "muslim brotherhood" is violated and overrided by assaults, thefts, crimes etc. In short, The senses will keep on dancing as per those attachments to sense objects even when "external discipline" has been implemented. As a result frustratoin and depression is bound to surround the atmosphere abound leading to chaos in the external world arround!
As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is similarly covered by different degrees of this lust (lust,greed, jealousy etc). Thus the wise living entity's pure consciousness becomes covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire. The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him. Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bhāratas, in the very beginning curb this great symbol of sin by regulating the senses, and slay this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization. (BG 3.38-41)
Some will call my post as religious, some will call it as political, some will tag it conservative. But I wish people could read, reason and understand without tagging, dissecting and thereafter grabbing the essence in its completeness.
I agree on your post except for the part where "fear could be used for discipline". Since India is the country of discussion, I'd take cases from India mostly. There had been a time as per ancient knowledge and history when people used to leave their doors open and still there wouldn't be any robbery, women understood a higher purpose in life than just being a marriage material or seen as an object.
"Discipline through fear" is what has been practiced by the Britishers and continued by its fork, the Congress party. Yes, we cannot divorce politics when the talking about the nation. This is something we saw during Anna's Anshan, Ramdev's Anshan where peaceful protesters were brutally assaulted with tear gases at 1 am night killing a 51 year old lady, Rajbala. In Delhi, many people take pride in breaking traffic rules even though the fines are heavy. Fear is something that IMO has not worked on Indians for men do not join Army for low wages, but a pride, a sense of love towards their motherland.
The whole question then converges : What is this discipline that we talk about? A discipline distorted by the corruption of the ideals can become adharma as well irrespective of the fact whether its a democracy or dictatorship!
Today, from the very childhood a kid is made to believe that he has high dreams. His material desires are fulfilled by parents who out of their attachment to child's 'happiness' sacrifice his evolution of wisdom. The consequences based on this attachment accumulate where the child starts asking for more and parents spoil him more. I never had financial problems, but since childhood my favourite GI Joe (Rs.32 at that time, ~20 years back) used to be a birthday gift only. My demand for Frooti or GI Joe was replied with a simple statement "Thats too expensive" with a convincing expression and a tone that used to make me think and appreciate the value of money and parents hardwork to earn it. I can proudly say that I have never spent money on irrelevant things like "Booze, smoking, drugs, gym protiens etc". Even a pesticide and toilet cleaner like Pepsi is bought in malls and drunk like water by kids these days. A simple discussion on life consistenly to this date is what brought me closer to my roots and the voice within. In the past, a person stole a few things from the shop and was caught red handed. But a simple words on honesty from the elders afterwards, made me realize about the adharma that was committed by the guy.
Most kids do not have a sense of judgement or knowlede of righteous acts by default. It is something that needs to be taught to him by his parents or teachers! But in today's time neither parents have the time for their kids nor the teachers themselves have a knowledge of dharma (dharma is not equal to religion) or adharma. The parents don't have answers to life and many times pour out their professional depression and frustration on their personal lives, wife and kids and teachers are busy only in finishing the course instead of educating the practical value of what they are teaching. As a result, the subjects of calculus and trignometry are forgotten over the time, where they could have been used in their daily life as well and then, life becomes a slavery to corporate houses and "earning" without understanding as to why one is earning. People start doing the same thing that others are doing i.e herd mentality rather than pursuing a path that comes from within, a field that he likes. Many people say that earning is for partying, boozing, smoking etc which they call as "lifestyle". But is killing your own braincells and reducing an outlook towards life based in narrowed prism of primary outlook and attachment to the borrowed definition of "fun and entertainment" called life?
Yes laws have their own place in the so called "modern world" where progress and development have been reduced to superficial fancies and materialism. Even in sharia ruled lands, Burqa clad women are raped and "muslim brotherhood" is violated and overrided by assaults, thefts, crimes etc. In short, The senses will keep on dancing as per those attachments to sense objects even when "external discipline" has been implemented. As a result frustratoin and depression is bound to surround the atmosphere abound leading to chaos in the external world arround!
As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is similarly covered by different degrees of this lust (lust,greed, jealousy etc). Thus the wise living entity's pure consciousness becomes covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire. The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him. Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bhāratas, in the very beginning curb this great symbol of sin by regulating the senses, and slay this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization. (BG 3.38-41)
Some will call my post as religious, some will call it as political, some will tag it conservative. But I wish people could read, reason and understand without tagging, dissecting and thereafter grabbing the essence in its completeness.
^^you are wrong about discipline not related to fear.it is true that that fear is not the ideal way for discipline but it is also true that not every human being has same intellectual/spiritual level(in fact majority in our country falls in this category only & you should know it better) & for such people fear is a good way to instill discipline.maybe later when our human society has evolved to a greater intellectual/spiritual level fear won't be necessary for discipline but until then hard reality demands it.
rhitwick
Democracy is a myth
I'll call it irrelevant!
Seems you want a fresh start which is offtopic in regards to this thread. Well, let me tell you, you won't get a fresh start.
Time will change, people and the lifestyle would change.
b/w, I too agree with Raaboo on dictatorship but there is a risk with it. What if the leader is chosen wrong?! We would be screwed then. Are you up for the risk?
mediator
Technomancer
Rhitwick, you really are in no position to call it 'irrelevant' when the entire infrastructure of your body and its individual components follow its 'relevance' and the reality of Ritam (Universal dharma) . Some in this thread are busy arguing over veg/non-veg with an argument "its all atoms/molecules in the end". If so, why is your own immunity system fighting the foreign particles without an end or a break? Do they know atoms are fighting atoms in the end? The moment the law breaks the material body which is "collection of atoms" starts to rot away!
The individual organs understand their own dharma and limitations and work accordingly, so do the celestial bodies, an order within the chaos, where the entire template of your body changes every nanoseconds chemically (billions of atoms inhaled, exhaled, perspired, excretion, drinking, urinating etc), physically (very slow for senses to register), mentally (emotion,wisdom,thoughts, intelligence, analysis etc)! Why do I still see an order in this extremely chaotic template of yours? Your senses are the ones which analze the external. The mind is the one which analyzes the message passed on by the senses. On whose direction is the mind working? You buy a car, but the thought originated in the past for it (2 days back or 20 years back) before it materializes in the physical world. What all factors were responsible for such a thought - 'buying a car'? From no where a thought might come about your loved ones and you immediately ring them up. It could be random and it could be a result of various forces of nature external as well as internal acting upon you to accumulate into a thought and then your body, a vessel acts to carry that thought forward?
So who exactly are "you" to deny the nature of the reality and call it irrelevant when your own body remains a dancing ground for the various forces in the universe and you act without knowing, thinking that "you" are doing it? Obviously, this doesn't give clean chit to the criminals (adharma, due to attachment to greed, anger etc where "I" can be found and hence divisions and disconnection to the rest of the world) and hence knowledge of dharma is extremely important in all the spheres of your life, for it is your understanding of dharma which gives a shape to your karma. (BG Chapter 3, read for details)
After the approval of Indra (Awakened or Controlled Mind) and his help and his victory over Vrita [the obstructor of treasure i.e cows (rays of knowledge) and horses (force and speed), knowledge and force], it is when the Sun (Surya, awareness) has dawned and light pervades. It is with this evolution, the Aryan Man walks without the chains of actions for there is no "I" alone.
One who realizes the renunciation of action in activities and action in the renunciation of activities, he is spiritually intelligent among mankind, transcendentally situated a perfect performer of all actions. (BG 4.18)
You are nothing but a slave to the attachment to your desires. It is evident that you have never read Gita. A simple thought came to you to call it irrelevant based on your past conditioning that the Indian science is religion with your existing borrowed filters that "All Religions are bad" and you by default assume and take it for granted Indian science is useless/irrelavant today when in reality major scientists from Tesla, Heisenberg, Fritjof Capra etc as earlier detailed have been inspired and influenced by it and now NASA, CHina, Russia trying to research upon it in their own ways!
This is indeed a crazy thread!
mediator
Technomancer
@whitestar - Please read again. I have not dismissed "discipline based on fear", but only given analogies and reality on how it is void when the senses and mind go out of control and the demons rise; and other opposite situations when discipline/force is used by adharma. Hence, revolts, rebellions, no matter if it is British or Congress. Indians never understood that discipline!