Debates about the Economy, Politics, Religion, and everything under the sun

[mediator]

@rhitwick - You can call me naive to hide the cloak of utter ignorance you are wearing all the time and using Manish Tiwari style tactics to bury the facts. Here I'm asking you to tell in detail how Kargil and hijack of IC 814 is related to BJP Vs Congress and you are putting my reply on 65+ misrule of Congress as quotes. Are you out of words or are you finding a way out and want me to empathize with your blind support for Congress?

No you are absolutely not clear please explain!

The money in swiss bank, is it only money from all Congress MPs over the years or if we look closely we could find some BJP members too?

When did I ever talk about Congress/BJP regarding the Swiss money. I guess it is becoming a habit of yours to twist my statements to include BJP/Congress and where it is needed, you go on Maun-mohan vrat. Please reply to my post #87,#89!!

Please read carefully this time what I said about Black Money. Can you please state what all "internationl laws" stop India from fetching her money back? India is a big and powerful nation, if needed, can draw pressure on other nations. But unfortunately such a picture is unimaginable under Congress's regime which has reduced India to a state of eunuch where any country can intrude, terrorists bomb blasts and India remains busy in "proving to Pakistan" that the terrorist is Pakistani! Had Osama known of such circumstances, perhaps he would have made a few explosions in India only and enjoyed Biryani like Kasab!

Yeah, why not? We did discuss on it right? CBI has been used by everyone in power. You can't blame only Congress for this. And, you can't debate on this because not even BJP or MODI promised anything about CBI till date.

Like I stated before (Post #87), I haven't seen a situation under BJP where CBI and other bodies are used against people who voice for the Nation (Anna, Ramdev etc). Can you please tell all the cases that you know of where CBI is used by BJP against its opponents and common man more importantly? Can you tell if BJP committed a scam and used CBI to manipulate evidence (e.g Coalgate) or where BJP used CBI to draw support on Bill (e.g CBi against SP on foodbill?)?

I would really like to know the extent of misuse of CBI under BJP.

Now please do some listing!

And why did Modi(BJP) oppose Lokayukta appointment in Gujraat?

Like I quoted and like you ignored -> Gujarat Lokayukta: Myths Vs Facts

And I do not understand your point about FDI being 'poison' for India whereas BJP first wanted to introduce it under Bajpayee's rule. And today, when Congress not only proposed it but also implemented it suddenly FDI is poison for India!!!

PLease read ->
A response to those who support FDI in Retail | Friends of BJP

When Govt. tried to amend the RTI bill to introduce political parties why did BJP MPs oppose it?
Plea against RTI amendment: BJP MPs extend support - The Hindu

Rhitwick, I request you to redo your kindergarten comprehension skills again. Do you even understand what the amendment was? And do you understand in detail why such amendment is being brought? Here's some food for thought

1. From your own link

“The way in which central government is planning to amend the act is most undemocratic mode of functioning. There has been no debate, inside or outside the parliament. Nobody even knows the exact wordings of the amendment. We feel that it should be opposed,” said Mr. Gandhi" (Shailesh Gandhi, RTI Activist)

2. Read this and remember -> Bill to exclude parties from RTI tabled in Lok Sabha - Times Of India

"The RTI amendment bill aiming to exclude political parties from the ambit of the transparency law was tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday even as activists prepared to challenge its implementation. "

3. Now digest this -> *www.firstpost.com/politics/sc-pass...cted-mps-mlas-cant-stay-in-office-945621.html

4. Research yourself on which political party harbours max. candidates with criminals records!

Gandhiji told "An eye for an eye would leave the world blind".

So that is a right move you say.
A Masjid was built destroying a temple hundred years back. And it was very much a required move to demolish the mosque again and spreading riot allover India. Who do you consider responsible for all the lives lost in that riot? Who?
Babar? Akbar? Aurangzeb or do you see ghost of Congress even in Mughal era?
If this 'revenge' mentality is being promoted by BJP even today and if this is what is also a by product of MODI as PM....I'll be against BJP till I'm eligible for voting.

If to you killing of Goats are as same as killing of human then I dare say that you might have twisted sense of humanity and I have no idea what is 'Indianness' to you. Call it a 'Hinduness' rather Indianness because your Indianness is very much inclined to people of a particular religion only.

Earlier you were quoting Ambedkar to satisfy yourself and now you are quoting Gandhi which has been refuted in the past debates for his minority appeasement, betrayal towards patriotic forces, untouchability towards the blacks (refer kafir), slave mentality towards Ali Brothers, role in division of India etc.


"An eye for an eye would leave the world blind"? Funny quote, tell that to your immunity system!

Too much "tolerance" leads to cowardice. This is something Mediator tells you and this is exactly what Gandhi reduced us to!



BTW, its not a revenge mentality that you assume frivolously, but a reality. You make a masjid in the heart of Indian sentiments i.e Ram Bhoomi, it is bound to have repercussions. Earlier resolved, better it is unlike the Pakistan and Kashmir issue that Nehru/Gandhi left us with which is like a 200 kg weight tied to India in economic marathon and killing Indian soldiers as well as Kashmiris everyday!


BTW, you conveniently left this link -> *www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2013/4/9...indal-SC-issues-notices-to-Centre-Jindal.aspx


Please enlighten us as to why Congress demolished this 400 yr old mosque? Any bright ideas on secularism?

I was not here to debate on behalf of BJP for my stance is pro-Modi and anti-Congress, but still I would like you to continue and let the rumours dissolve.

BTW, I still don't understand why you voted for Amul Baby or perhaps you vote with a confused state of mind? Please read my previous reply again on Amul Baby and his characteristics, his future and my questions seeking some guarantees!

Now I ask you again, to reply to my post #87,#89 instead of running away calling me "naive" as your only intellectual reply and to suit yourself!

 

[snap]

@mediator

indian sentiments?? or more likely hindu sentiments, a masjid built hundreds of years before the formation of india was destroyed after the independence. by your recent post it feels like you are actually threatened by the minorities

I beg to differ here.
You are telling the scriptures were written keeping ‘India’ in mind. This is not Indianness. You just can’t point out and say this particular thing is from original and ancient India. When ‘India’ was not invaded by any other race. This particular scripture or ritual is pure Indian. You can’t, you know.
Why? Because at that time there was no ‘India’. India is a new concept. The nation was not even in its preset from. The maps and territories marked for different countries were different then.
Refer here : The Formation of India:
(You are free to read the whole text but I would recommend you to start from para 4)
After each invasion the then country got rich by new cultures. New people and new religious beliefs. For a long time ‘India’ has walked with different people of different beliefs. In modern it was really required to give equal rights to everyone.
Talking about any particular religion is not bad. But bragging and claiming it’s the best is not proper.

 

[Raaabo]

Indian Economy Going down

Purely my personal opinion, much like those of you who support either of the major parties are posting.

If you sit and argue over who's clean, you only throw muck on yourself. The popular tag "sab chor hain" is perhaps the closest to the truth, but even that is not completely accurate, as I am sure there are some politicians who are clean. However, no party is clean. Mediator, go walk into your BJP local office and demand to know what they have done for your area, and you will get slapped for "demanding" anything. They are first class citizens, and you aren't - unless of course you're involved in politics yourself. Same applies for those who support congress, shiv sena, whoever. Try telling a politician, or a corporator, or even a local party representative to follow the law when his car jumps a red light - even if you start your reprimand with "I am a supporter of your party", see the reply you get. All parties have goondas in their cadre who could not give a rats a$$ about you or your problems, they only want power to be able to bully others - you included.

Where does all the false support come from? What is this arm chair politics we all seem to conduct? For every negative news / investigative piece one finds online against the Congress, there is another against the BJP. How are we so selective in absorbing such information? If a channel / paper breaks BJP scams it is a Congress mouthpiece, and vice versa, depending on your pre-conceived loyalties? What makes us believe that certain states are better than others? For every happy person in a state there are a 100 sufferers. Are we so blind that we cannot see that life in India is harder than ever before, regardless of which state and which political party leads that state.

All of these political parties are nothing more than a reality tv show - they posture and pose and say things to raise popularity. Our democracy has been reduced to just another Big Boss episode, but the only difference is, on Big Boss someone you don't care about but vote for gets money and doesn't affect you, whereas, in this latest show, we are the biggest losers. Where are the people who say, I will vote for <party/candidate>, but only if they can persuade me by ACTION over the remaining months that they care more about India and Indians than their rivals? Where are the people who post both good and bad about every party and their actions? Most of these debates seem to be fanboy-vs-fanboy, and from the Windows vs Linux and Apple vs Microsoft, etc., fights you have seen on this forum you already know its just a huge pointless waste of time.

I have a problem with people who can say today, "I will vote for XYZ". What about their actions from today until voting day, doesn't that matter? You are all so sure as to who the next PM should be already, and willing to hand out the one weapon you have against corruption and vote bank politics today, right this instant? Why not Aam Aadmi Party, or the Left, or independent candidates, etc, none of those matter? Look at what they have done for you in your locality, approach them with suggestions for improvement, and then vote for the party who seems to care the most about you - is my suggestion. The looting at the centre will continue regardless of which symbol is in power, I just want life around me to improve, as should you.

 

[rhitwick]

@rhitwick - You can call me naive to hide the cloak of utter ignorance you are wearing all the time and using Manish Tiwari style tactics to bury the facts. Here I'm asking you to tell in detail how Kargil and hijack of IC 814 is related to BJP Vs Congress and you are putting my reply on 65+ misrule of Congress as quotes. Are you out of words or are you finding a way out and want me to empathize with your blind support for Congress?

No you are absolutely not clear please explain!

Uh it is thus.
As per you if any riot, or administrative failure happened under the rule of Congress and that is a failure of Congress, applying the same rule any and all mishaps happened under the rule of BJP is a failure of BJP.
I hope now you understand.

When did I ever talk about Congress/BJP regarding the Swiss money. I guess it is becoming a habit of yours to twist my statements to include BJP/Congress and where it is needed, you go on Maun-mohan vrat. Please reply to my post #87,#89!!

You accused why Indian Govt. does not invest entire black money? Right now Indian Govt. is run by Congress and hence indirectly you are pointing to Congress.
I'm seriously tired of spoonfeeding you these things.

Please read carefully this time what I said about Black Money. Can you please state what all "internationl laws" stop India from fetching her money back? India is a big and powerful nation, if needed, can draw pressure on other nations.

I, rather answering to you here (which would be mocked by you) ask you a question.
I guess you've already figured out how black money can be brought to India, may I have the detailed plan here. Please don't evade this any mockery or attacks. Either you say how exactly black money can be brought to India or you never raise this topic again.

Had Osama known of such circumstances, perhaps he would have made a few explosions in India only and enjoyed Biryani like Kasab!

And, obviously Osama didn't know this which is already figured out by you. Cool.

Like I stated before (Post #87), I haven't seen a situation under BJP where CBI and other bodies are used against people who voice for the Nation (Anna, Ramdev etc). Can you please tell all the cases that you know of where CBI is used by BJP against its opponents and common man more importantly? Can you tell if BJP committed a scam and used CBI to manipulate evidence (e.g Coalgate) or where BJP used CBI to draw support on Bill (e.g CBi against SP on foodbill?)?
I would really like to know the extent of misuse of CBI under BJP.

I'll come back to this later. Right now I've very low information on this. Till then you are allowed to mock me with this.

Like I quoted and like you ignored -> Gujarat Lokayukta: Myths Vs Facts

And then what about this?
Governor returns Gujarat Lokayukta Bill again - Indian Express
Your expert opinion on Gujrat Govt.'s proposed bill?!


PLease read ->
A response to those who support FDI in Retail | Friends of BJP
I read that. Though a link of a BJP oriented site, IDK how to believe there.
So, according to site BJP thought of giving Education and building national highway higher priority that FDI bill. Sure why not. But its a bill that BJP proposed. So what were they thinking when the bill was in formation or they suddenly realised road and education are also required in India.
Same bill is now reintroduced and passed. I see only politics in opposing it. Nothing else.

Rhitwick, I request you to redo your kindergarten comprehension skills again. Do you even understand what the amendment was? And do you understand in detail why such amendment is being brought? Here's some food for thought

1. From your own link

“The way in which central government is planning to amend the act is most undemocratic mode of functioning. There has been no debate, inside or outside the parliament. Nobody even knows the exact wordings of the amendment. We feel that it should be opposed,” said Mr. Gandhi" (Shailesh Gandhi, RTI Activist)

2. Read this and remember -> Bill to exclude parties from RTI tabled in Lok Sabha - Times Of India

"The RTI amendment bill aiming to exclude political parties from the ambit of the transparency law was tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday even as activists prepared to challenge its implementation. "

3. Now digest this -> SC landmark judgement: Convicted MPs, MLAs must go - Firstpost

4. Research yourself on which political party harbours max. candidates with criminals records!

Ah, I failed in research.
Why not you post a comparison list of corrupt politicians of each party in question here.

Earlier you were quoting Ambedkar to satisfy yourself and now you are quoting Gandhi which has been refuted in the past debates for his minority appeasement, betrayal towards patriotic forces, untouchability towards the blacks (refer kafir), slave mentality towards Ali Brothers, role in division of India etc.

I fail to see the point here.
Are you telling me that If I quoted Ambedkar once I must quote him always or what?
Or I've ended up quoting every person that is in your bad book. If that is the case, sorry can't lead my life 'YOUR' way.

"An eye for an eye would leave the world blind"? Funny quote, tell that to your immunity system!

What is funny in that?
Please explain.

Too much "tolerance" leads to cowardice. This is something Mediator tells you and this is exactly what Gandhi reduced us to!

Aha! Wonderful!
You consider yourself comparable to Gandhi! Cool.

Gandhi always told about non-violence and I believe in that too. What a certain extremist mediator thinks about right or wrong is irrelevant to me.

BTW, its not a revenge mentality that you assume frivolously, but a reality. You make a masjid in the heart of Indian sentiments i.e Ram Bhoomi, it is bound to have repercussions.

Fortunately for you but unfortunately for many Indian of that time BJP took the responsibility to bring Justice to a certain imagined character of a fantasy story. All the deaths and torments were justified because a certain area of land is now reclaimed (not even reclaimed though, case pending in court).
Its a revenge mentality. It was always a revenge mentality and it'll always be.

BTW, you conveniently left this link -> *www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2013/4/9...indal-SC-issues-notices-to-Centre-Jindal.aspx
Please enlighten us as to why Congress demolished this 400 yr old mosque? Any bright ideas on secularism?

I do not work for Congress and neither they informed me while doing that. I've no idea why it was done and if 'Amul baby' was involved in that.
I think they wanted to start a riot just to get even with BJP, but failed miserably. Poor Congress.

I was not here to debate on behalf of BJP for my stance is pro-Modi and anti-Congress, but still I would like you to continue and let the rumours dissolve.

Understand this clearly, Modi without BJP is nothing. Modi is hailed as PM only because BJP wanted him to be. Its not Modi is the right candidate for PM rather BJP wants to come to power and none but MODI has that impression over nation today to win them the throne.

BTW, I still don't understand why you voted for Amul Baby or perhaps you vote with a confused state of mind? Please read my previous reply again on Amul Baby and his characteristics, his future and my questions seeking some guarantees!

Told once and I would repeat once more, if you look closely the voting option has only his name from Congress party. He who created this thread forgot to include other netas.
Who would I voted for if there were other options?
I would take the liberty here ans say that if congress want to be in power and want to clean some of its image, propose Nitish Kumar to Join congress and name him PM candidate.
From congress I would vote for Manmohan if he stands again.
Rahul, IDK....he lacks experience in politics. IMO not ideal for PM, may be 10 years later. IDK what congress would decide.

Now I ask you again, to reply to my post #87,#89 instead of running away calling me "naive" as your only intellectual reply and to suit yourself!

Ok...if you insist this much I'll give it a chance.

 

[amjath]

Completely agree with Raaabo but what if politician around my locality are all jerks and fit for nothing. Dont vote???

There are places where even a single person don't go to vote cause they don't want corruptive politicians.

Why can't we do something like that?? Is it impossible

 

[Raaabo]

Indian Economy Going down

I am all for the "none of the above" clause - providing it means that if majority vote for none of the above none of those standing will ever be allowed to stand again. But parties will never allow this, just as they all come together against the Supreme Court to keep criminals in their parties.

I still have enough faith in humanity to know that there is always one local representative who is better than the others, vote for him or her. But do your research locally instead of just sitting online and reading popular news stories or being swayed by pr campaigns. You buy technology products only after reading reviews by us, although there aren't unbiased testing methodologies for politicians yet, why not let your life experience decide based on review of facts only.

Also, its often a process of elimination. Is the road outside your house paved? Do you get water and electric supply properly, is policing done in your area, how would you rate the quality of life in general? Who is in power now, and who was in power 5/10 years ago, was there noticeable improvement when a person from one party was in charge, or was it pretty much the same? Give a new guy a chance, listen to his election promises, don't forget, and judge him or her based on delivering those promises. If you have always been cheated when buying one brand, you switch to another in hope, if you are cheated again, you try a third. It's not ideal, it's just what we have. Democracy is a joke here sadly, because even with RTI, asking tough questions just gets you shot... Most often, we just try to find the lesser evil, rather than the right party. I for one have completely lost faith in all major parties. I hope there are independents standing for election, but I still have to hear them speak before deciding who my vote goes to, sadly, most already seem to have made up their minds one way or another, by falling into this false sense of fear put into their heads based on religion, by parties who call themselves secular!

I am ashamed to admit that when the parliament was attacked, all I could think of was, "Yes, now you ba$tard$ know the fear we live in, in Mumbai, where bomb blasts and terrorism is almost normal. Finally the damn terrorists are targeting the right people instead of us innocents!" It's sad that these so called leaders have driven us simple folk into wishing nothing more than being able to watch these politicians run for cover and perhaps even be torn to shreds - because that's the only justice and way out of this mess that we can think of.

 

[Bhargav Simha]

Dont understand one thing.. when people argue that the 400 year issue should not be used by BJP.. why are they using 20 year old issue to argue against it...
Also though I hate BJP for its divisive politics.. Hindutva, telangana etc. I still feel the demolition of the masjid was not as big of a issue as people make it to be.... Why dont the psuedo secularists understand that the a mosque issue was there before BJP was formed and they only tried to cash it for the elections..
Also you need to understand that mosque in the birth place of a major deity of hinduism.... leads to unnecessary tensions.... It was just a mosque.. which was destroyed not muslim piligrimage site. But on the other hand was the birth place of the important gods of hinduism. Its like building is minor temple in the holy mecca site or a mandir in Vatican...what do you think it fate would be?!!
People would have long forgotten it.. if not for the psuedos who use it always to blame BJP...
If you guys were truly secular you wouldnt mind if a mosque was destroyed would you... and more over when it hurts the sentiments of millions of people.. causing un-necessary tension.
Stop debating about past and think about the people who are alive and the generations yet to come....
BTW I hate BJP as much as I hate Congress... Most of the party consists of puny leaders.. excluding vajpayee or modi. The only way they know to get into power is to divide people..
On one hand we have the party which plays with you and your future and on the other hand the party which plays with your sentiments...
I really wish communist movement should rise up again...wipe these two out..

I am all for the "none of the above" clause - providing it means that if majority vote for none of the above none of those standing will ever be allowed to stand again. But parties will never allow this, just as they all come together against the Supreme Court to keep criminals in their parties.

I still have enough faith in humanity to know that there is always one local representative who is better than the others, vote for him or her. But do your research locally instead of just sitting online and reading popular news stories or being swayed by pr campaigns. You buy technology products only after reading reviews by us, although there aren't unbiased testing methodologies for politicians yet, why not let your life experience decide based on review of facts only.

Also, its often a process of elimination. Is the road outside your house paved? Do you get water and electric supply properly, is policing done in your area, how would you rate the quality of life in general? Who is in power now, and who was in power 5/10 years ago, was there noticeable improvement when a person from one party was in charge, or was it pretty much the same? Give a new guy a chance, listen to his election promises, don't forget, and judge him or her based on delivering those promises. If you have always been cheated when buying one brand, you switch to another in hope, if you are cheated again, you try a third. It's not ideal, it's just what we have. Democracy is a joke here sadly, because even with RTI, asking tough questions just gets you shot... Most often, we just try to find the lesser evil, rather than the right party. I for one have completely lost faith in all major parties. I hope there are independents standing for election, but I still have to hear them speak before deciding who my vote goes to, sadly, most already seem to have made up their minds one way or another, by falling into this false sense of fear put into their heads based on religion, by parties who call themselves secular!

What do you think of a recall option... people should be able to recall a representative after half of his tenure. Also the recalled representative should not be allowed to enter any elections for the next 5 r 10 years. A particular number of petetions should be mandatory for the recall, one for each voter id; which in turn would be presented before the election comission. The election commission then decides and arranges recall election if necessary?!

 

[dashing.sujay]

Completely agree with Raaabo but what if politician around my locality are all jerks and fit for nothing. Dont vote???

Why can't we do something like that?? Is it impossible

It's being discussed since long time and still discussed. I vaguely remember that this option of "None of these" was in-the-rounds during last common election, but as you know, something anti-neta policy is very very tough to pass.

I am all for the "none of the above" clause - providing it means that if majority vote for none of the above none of those standing will ever be allowed to stand again.

Don't you think your "clasue" is a very impractical option ? If all the contesting parties are barred from contesting ahead (barring person will have no affect), it will cause a situation of instability as how will parties by organised in nos in such a short notice ? I agree most of the "other" parties would be fully corrupt, but there must be some, which is the "least", if not zero.

And expecting a zero corrupt party is expecting 100% truth in this world, which is just hypothetical. 100% truth/honesty/correctness may exist in an individual, but in a group, it can't, as a group isn't ruled by a single voice, and it's de facto that if there is some good in this world, some bad is also there.

Dont understand one thing.. when people argue that the 400 year issue should not be used by BJP.. why are they using 20 year old issue to argue against it...
Also though I hate BJP for its divisive politics.. Hindutva, telangana etc. I still feel the demolition of the masjid was not as big of a issue as people make it to be.... Why dont the psuedo secularists understand that the a mosque issue was there before BJP was formed and they only tried to cash it for the elections..
Also you need to understand that mosque in the birth place of a major deity of hinduism.... leads to unnecessary tensions.... It was just a mosque.. which was destroyed not muslim piligrimage site. But on the other hand was the birth place of the important gods of hinduism. Its like building is minor temple in the holy mecca site or a mandir in Vatican...what do you think it fate would be?!!

The only solution IMHO is to not allow any religious building there. Rather make a hospital.

What do you think of a recall option... people should be able to recall a representative after half of his tenure. Also the recalled representative should not be allowed to enter any elections for the next 5 r 10 years. A particular number of petetions should be mandatory for the recall, one for each voter id; which in turn would be presented before the election comission. The election commission then decides and arranges recall election if necessary?!

And "what exactly" would decide that it's the time to hold voting ?

 

[Ronnie11]

i have to sometimes read the thread heading to know where i am ...This thread is so way out of topic..lol..its getting hilarious...

 

[dashing.sujay]

Our country is out of place, out of state, out of everything, who cares for a thread !!

 

[mediator]

indian sentiments?? or more likely hindu sentiments, a masjid built hundreds of years before the formation of india was destroyed after the independence. by your recent post it feels like you are actually threatened by the minorities

In its orginal definition Hindu=India, a word coined by persians who couldn't speak Sindhu properly and called people beyond Sindhu has Hindu and hence the word Hindustan! The word Hindu is geographic and later disorted to some "religious connotations". Therefore, any person living in India no matter how he is tagged as be it Muslims, Christian etc is a Hindu.

Regarding the linguistic distortions you should read this brilliant piece of analysis -> www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/zoro.pdf

You should read SC judgement on the term "HIndu" itself.

Yes, you can say that I feel threatened, but try to read Quran yourself as much as possible and you shall find the evils of the desert cult that started 1400 yrs ago. Even the texts of Avesta were destroyed by Islamic invaders! You can voice yourself and create beautiful idols in this Nation and say things against so called Hindu Gods. I won't be disturbed, but try doing that to Allah and MOhammed or the Islamic leaders or the rulers, create idols or whatever creativity comes to your mind in lands ruled by Sharia and you just might understand. Perhaps you cannot empathize the situation and do not know the reality that is surfacing in parts like Kashmir, Kerela, West bengal, Assam etc. Perhaps you do not know that Afghanistan (Up-gaan-stan, land of divine songs, gandharva) was also once a land of creativity and science just like the land of Ahura Mazda, place associated with Zoroastrianism.

The basic Aim of Islam remains is to Islamize the whole world irrespective of the boundaries, 'awaken the non-believers' and finally achieve peace. Read about Judgement Day, heaven and hell in Islam, the fate of non-believers and women prisoners. But if you are muslim, then I guess you already know all that.


"We must remember that the Avesta as it has come down to the modern Zoroastrian world is but a collection of fragments and texts preserved from a far greater whole. Zoroastrianism has suffered greatly from the destruction of its texts. First, in the conflagration set by Alexander the invader in 330 B.C. which destroyed the library at Persepolis, and later by invading Muslims/Arabs and then by Mongols."

*www.persiandna.com/avesta.htm

Like I told rhitwick, read history as much as possible. It has been debated before. You seem to be new to the forum. So please read "Science Vs God" discussion. "Decololization of Hindu Mind by Koenraad Elst" would also suffice.

Uh it is thus.
As per you if any riot, or administrative failure happened under the rule of Congress and that is a failure of Congress, applying the same rule any and all mishaps happened under the rule of BJP is a failure of BJP.
I hope now you understand.

There is a difference between genocide and riots. Modi, the accused, has been given clean chit on it (2002), and Congress not (1984)! 2002 was a riot, 1984 was not. It was a state sponsored genocide where Rajiv Gandhi stated "When a great tree falls, earth will shake". I hope this simple English is clear to you.

You accused why Indian Govt. does not invest entire black money? Right now Indian Govt. is run by Congress and hence indirectly you are pointing to Congress.
I'm seriously tired of spoonfeeding you these things.

I don't know why it is destroying your peace when I point towards Congress. I'm simply asking about the black money, not of about "who" that money belongs to, where you have forcefully inserted BJP/COngress accounts to it!

The Onus is on COngress right now, if it had been BJP onus would on BJP then. It is as simple. If you can't swallow the reality, then tell Khangress to disappear!

I, rather answering to you here (which would be mocked by you) ask you a question.
I guess you've already figured out how black money can be brought to India, may I have the detailed plan here. Please don't evade this any mockery or attacks. Either you say how exactly black money can be brought to India or you never raise this topic again.

I can't mock you for you belong to the service of Royal Prince, the Amul Baby. But you remind me of Renuka Chaudhary here who when questioned about terrorism and corruption replies back with Saas-Bahu kind of mannerism "Does BJP has a magic wand to solve all this?"

Anyways, you were supposed to list the "internationl laws" which could stop India from fetching her money back.

And then what about this?
Governor returns Gujarat Lokayukta Bill again - Indian Express
Your expert opinion on Gujrat Govt.'s proposed bill?!

So what if the governor returns? Read -> *www.niticentral.com/2013/09/03/con...locks-for-gujarats-lokayukta-bill-127989.html

*www.niticentral.com/2013/08/08/meh...r-lokayukta-civil-rights-activist-116112.html

It will be discussed and till then give it the time.

PLease read ->
A response to those who support FDI in Retail | Friends of BJP
I read that. Though a link of a BJP oriented site, IDK how to believe there.
So, according to site BJP thought of giving Education and building national highway higher priority that FDI bill. Sure why not. But its a bill that BJP proposed. So what were they thinking when the bill was in formation or they suddenly realised road and education are also required in India.
Same bill is now reintroduced and passed. I see only politics in opposing it. Nothing else.

Rhitwick, I really don't like to give lectures and points on comprehension skills again and again. Please read the link a bit more carefully.


Anyways, you lost my interest in your post now for more than half of my replies remain unanswered and I was hoping you'd put up some show. You are a nice guy and I don't seek entertainment from you. You win man, I lose!
--------------------------------------

@Raaabo - You seem to have generalized too much. I can sense a little bit of frustration in your post which is obvious. I can also be frustrated with human kind with their behavior today, low morales and respect towards other beings, women etc. Should I say all humans are like filth? That would include your father, my father and everyone's father. Similarly, generalizing on politicians is not really wise IMO. Some have become politicians to serve, some to tackle corruption, some to cause corruption and earn the illegal way. Perhaps, you missed my very first post.

I have seen the reality you have mentioned and hence the reason, the discussion why Janlokpal, isolating Govt. from CBI and many other measures to reduce corruption are necessary. This why discussion takes place and hence politics and political parties, lesser of the evils, who did what will be discussed. Since you are talking about ground work, here how it goes -

Reality 1
E.g The Congress leader in my area doesn't really do anything. But during elections he gives favours to the poor like Ration cards, subsidised commodities, resolving problems in their area and voila, you've got votes!

Reality 2
If it is independent leader, even if he does good work, the chances are high going by the track record of Congress that he will be bought by COngress for a few crores. It happens all the time!

Reality 3
*www.niticentral.com/2013/08/15/mas...-delhi-13-lakh-bogus-voters-found-119260.html

Many people don't vote. Do we really understand where the a major percentage of votes come from? What right do we have to whine about the nation, if we don't vote. So request everyone to vote! If people do not know whom to vote, then research. If still no answer, then see at the national level with factors like - Which state grew the most, which leader is the most popular, which leaders "knows" India etc.

Reality 4
I don't know if you are aware of illegal bangladeshi settlements in Delhi which was notified by Advani more than 10 years back and a security threat by the intelligence. There are not much checks on the Bangladeshi immigration etc. These Bangladeshi are given citizenships or ration cards or shelter etc in return of their promise for votes by parties like Left and Congress. BJP is against this, but if discussed, the debate will take religious angle and paid media will accuse BJP of being communal.


Even if I go as per your recommendation - "Look at what they have done for you in your locality, approach them with suggestions for improvement, and then vote for the party who seems to care the most about you - is my suggestion. " .....then what is the guarantee that in the end, they won't opt for Congress or bought by Congress? Is that leader really representing my voice?


Yes, I'm not really pro-military rule, but our system is not really democratic or secular either for secularism promotes science and not 'organized doctrines' which would interfere in the working of the state.

Try to research yourself on the series of professional steps taken by Modi during Uttarakhand floods and this is what I call effective utilization of resources. There is a reason why many people from within do not want Modi. It is simply because he is not a politician in the traditional sense or as per common usage of the term, but an administrator!

So I don't really agree with your suggestion and I do not agree at all with your statement - "If you sit and argue over who's clean, you only throw muck on yourself."

There's an overwhelming support of Modi growing everyday, esp. amongst netizens from the days when I was called as communal for supporting Modi to this day where it has become a fashion to support him. A rumour spreads like a wild fire, but so does the truth and when the people acknowledge of what they percieved earlier was wrong, they start listening slowly but steadily. Today, I see a lot of people who were pro-Congress some 10 years back actively vouching for Modi and exposing Congress all the time. It is one of the components of herd mentality where a rumour can change the path of the herd instinct but so can the truth. I'm not here to discuss who's clean, but the truth alone!

Like I said before, the best marketing for Modi is being done by the critics themselves. The more they try to pull him down, the higher he goes.


---------------------------------------------------

For all the people who have some misconceptions about the word Hindu or Hindutva should do some serious digging of their own or read the Supreme Court judgement of 1995

The court came to the conclusion that the words "Hinduism" or "Hindutva" are not necessarily to be understood and construed narrowly, confined only to the strict Hindu religious practices unrelated to the culture and ethos of the People of India depicting the way of life of the Indian people. Unless the context of a speech indicates a contrary meaning or use, in the abstract, these terms are indicative more of a way of life of the Indian people. Unless the context of a speech indicates a contrary meaning or use, in the abstract, these terms are indicative more of a way of life of the Indian people and are not confined merely to describe persons practicing the Hindu religion as a faith" (Emphasis supplied). This clearly means that, by itself, the word "Hinduism" or "Hindutva" indicates the culture of the people of India as a whole, irrespective of whether they are Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews etc. The Supreme Court Bench has further observed that "the mere fact that these words (Hindutva or Hinduism) are used in the speech would not bring in within the prohibition of sub-section (3) or (3A) of Section 123. It may well be that these words are used in the speech to promote secularism and to emphasize the way of life of the Indian people and the Indian culture or ethos, or to criticize the policy of any political party as discriminatory or intolerant. Whether a particular speech in which a reference is made to Hindutva and or Hinduism falls within the prohibition under sub-section (3) or (3A) of Section 123 is therefore a question of fact in each case" (Emphasis supplied).

Further, a debunking of those who think Hindutva or supporting India and her history associates with communalism, A must read -> *www.vedantatoday.com/index.php/-the-myth-of-the-hindu-right

 

[rhitwick]

There is a difference between genocide and riots. Modi, the accused, has been given clean chit on it (2002), and Congress not (1984)! 2002 was a riot, 1984 was not. It was a state sponsored genocide where Rajiv Gandhi stated "When a great tree falls, earth will shake". I hope this simple English is clear to you.

So, its a 'riot' as MEDIATOR declared it so and that was 'genocide' as again 'MEDIATOR' thought so!
Sorry to inform you I've not been taught the MEDIATOR standard yet. And I'm glad that I'm ignorant about it.

Why not "invest" the entire Indian black money kept in the swiss for that matter?

Yes why not? You tell me 'why not'?

The money in swiss bank, is it only money from all Congress MPs over the years or if we look closely we could find some BJP members too?

The money is not coming to India. Is that Congress's conspiracy or there could be some international laws involved? IDK, you tell me.

When did I ever talk about Congress/BJP regarding the Swiss money. I guess it is becoming a habit of yours to twist my statements to include BJP/Congress and where it is needed, you go on Maun-mohan vrat.

You accused why Indian Govt. does not invest entire black money? Right now Indian Govt. is run by Congress and hence indirectly you are pointing to Congress.

I don't know why it is destroying your peace when I point towards Congress. I'm simply asking about the black money, not of about "who" that money belongs to, where you have forcefully inserted BJP/COngress accounts to it!

This is how it progressed so far.
Why black money not coming to India. This black money is something that is accumulated in swiss bank only in the duration of Congress era. And, thus Congress is showing no interest in bringing it home.
Hmmm...so there were no black money in Swiss banks when BJP was in rule. Hmmm.
b/w you forgot this.

I guess you've already figured out how black money can be brought to India, may I have the detailed plan here. Please don't evade this any mockery or attacks. Either you say how exactly black money can be brought to India or you never raise this topic again.

The Onus is on COngress right now, if it had been BJP onus would on BJP then. It is as simple. If you can't swallow the reality, then tell Khangress to disappear!

Like I said we are assuming there were no black money in swiss bank when BJP was in rule. Thus congress is the evil one here. Why not accept the failures of BJP when it was in rule.
Like things that they could have done but did not.
FDI
Food security bill
RTI
Black Money
Pension Bill

Oh they I know they were busy on building roda and spreading literacy. I appreciate the movements very much. BUT, a nation always have enough ministers to diversify the works. BJP even failed in administration then I would say.

I can't mock you for you belong to the service of Royal Prince, the Amul Baby. But you remind me of Renuka Chaudhary here who when questioned about terrorism and corruption replies back with Saas-Bahu kind of mannerism "Does BJP has a magic wand to solve all this?"

Obviously mock me and don't answer.
And, you agree then if BJP (in terms MODI) comes in power nothing will change as they don't own such a magic wand. So why change the present Govt. at all?!!!
Do you know how much a election of such scale cost? Keep the present Govt. and save a lot of money na?!

Anyways, you were supposed to list the "internationl laws" which could stop India from fetching her money back.

Well I admit I don't know any such law as of now. Let me study that and by that time you post your descriptive step by step guide on how to bring black money back to India.

So what if the governor returns? Read -> Congress backed Guv creates road blocks for Gujarat

Mehta

It will be discussed and till then give it the time.

Sure, its in discussion and we must give it time BECAUSE MEDIATOR told it so.
What about the case going on against Modi even after he was given clean chit by SC for the riot? We must ignore the present ongoing case BECAUSE (again) MEDIATOR thought so. Very nice approach.
'My way or highyway" right?

Rhitwick, I really don't like to give lectures and points on comprehension skills again and again. Please read the link a bit more carefully.

I read. Twice. I still fail to see something worth holding any value in this debate.
Do post the parts you think I might have missed.

Anyways, you lost my interest in your post now for more than half of my replies remain unanswered and I was hoping you'd put up some show.

Ok you won't reply to my questions because you lost interest but I must show a keen interest in all your post (specially #87 and #89) and reply sincerely like you're my teacher and they are my homework. Why, oh why the mighty MEDIATOR I can't lose interest in your posts? Do I have no such right?

You are a nice guy and I don't seek entertainment from you. You win man, I lose!

Yeah, I win (and you lost)
Congress for next election.
Amul Baby for PM

The thread can be closed now I guess.

 

[Raaabo]

Indian Economy Going down

Mediator, you seem totally biased, and also communal. You claim to be "secular" and keep quoting ancient texts. You make statements that parrot the RSS line that since all people in India were Hindus, and Islam only converted, everyone is still a Hindu by genetics. Why stop there? Life originated in Africa, we are all basically African. Why not follow African customs? Life before the Muslim Rulers and the British was segmented wars between Maharajas, and there was no voting, just right to rule by birth and blood line. Why vote? Just find the bloodline of the old Maharajas, and let them decide your fate? Lets get the genetics experts to start testing everyone and divide based on the caste they came from in the old times. Maybe you might have untouchable ancestry, or maybe I will, let's all shun those with the wrong blood and genes.

What are you advocating? Clinging to a long dead past and looking only in a rear view mirror while moving forwards is the recipe for a bad accident.

Have you really read the Quran, I have my doubts. I have read a translation, and it's a beautifully written medical journal, written in the words that were common then, attributing a lot to an unseen God, like many other religions, but basically trying to get people to lead healthy and happier lives. The Bible was the same, and basically tries to control chaos in savage times by trying to give people a conscience and attributing to a God. All holy books follow the same pattern, and are an attempt to control an ever growing population, get them to be more civilised, and make them more peaceful. Sadly the writers also assumed that once attaining peace, people would realise that this was the way to live, and continue to do so. Every religion says God is everywhere - which also means in everyone and everything, thus respect it. What the bible says in the form of "do not covet thy neighbours wife", the Ramayana said much before it with a much more entertaining story, because let's face it, we Indians love a little drama. It's not any religion that's good or bad, they're all good and all aim for the same thing - civilised and ordered society. Sadly they're also a very powerful tools in the wrong hands, and most religions are now governed by selfish power hungry people, or at least preached to you locally by a selfish power hungry person.

You also seem to be a great believer in Modi, yet when I hear him speak i worry about how he will represent us internationally. Not that Manmohan is good at that either, he just looks always surprised and clueless and awkward. Like it or not, to move forward, India needs to stop sitting around peeling its scabs from wounds dating back to as much as 1000 years, making them fresh wounds and recreating and reliving the pain. I am surprised people are so easily taken in by PR machines, next you'll be telling me you think the rumours that Modi helps IIT kids solve their math problems every morning are also true, and that he indeed single-handedly rescued thousands of Gujaratis from the floods in half an hour!

Wake up and smell the cow dung that ALL of these politicians are spreading over your eyes. Take nothing at face value, and don't trust politicians that shy away from tough questions. Also I find it unbelievable that you claim to chide me for making sweeping statements about politicians, and then go on to call all Indians Hindus, and insult other religions. Are you sure you're not a politician running for elections? You sure act like one and sound like one. Hoping for a BJP or RSS ticket from your hometown?

I am happy that you seem to be the minority here, and that most members of the forum are not sinking to your level. It gives me more hope for the youth of this country, a subset of which is represented on this forum. Also, please refrain from making communal statements that you obviously cannot prove, because that is whats wrong with our country to begin with. You have every right to quote your own religion and beliefs, but you have no right to call others names, or ridicule their beliefs. By very definition, "faith" is what you believe in the absence of fact, and it's best that religion be left at that - faith, because no religion has any facts that can be verified scientifically or logically. Besides, if you believe it, why care about whether others do or do not.

This thread was meant to be about politics and economics, I request all members to steer clear of making this religious - hard, since our politicians themselves make it all about that, but please let's be better than our politicians, or else what hope does this country have?

 

[theterminator]

Yeah, I win (and you lost)
Congress for next election.
Amul Baby for PM

The thread can be closed now I guess.

This thread is not about petty things like you winning something irrelevant or not.

BJP/Modi keeps getting hounded for 2002 by the same men/women who were at the helms of affairs in 1984. Atleast, for 2002, people at powerful position have been arrested (Maya Kodnani,etc.) whereas who has been arrested from the Congress? Atleast, for 2002 , CM has got clean chits from the Supreme Court (people sometimes take Supreme Court as a joke) whereas for 1984 , case is yet to reach Supreme Court.
Congress is the most powerful party of India , there is no doubt in that, but people should remember that its not the best. They play politics a little too well than BJP but their influence is waning with the rising scams, vote-bank policies, return of some kind of approval-Raj (License Raj days) where it demoralizes corporates to invest in this country because of the delays in various clearances & bribe-lurking babus. The government infrastructure, especially health care , is in dismal condition which every unbiased person would agree. Would that amount to voting for BJP , I am not sure.

 

[rishitells]

@raaabo

The 'ancient texts' @mediator quotes are upheld by prominent scientists and researchers all over the world, including Einstein. 20 million Americans practice Yoga (2012 study), a science which originated in India from Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, an 'ancient text'. Ayurveda, the traditional healthcare of 'India', which has gained immense popularity all over the world, was originated from the Vedas, and pioneered by 'ancient texts' like Charak Samhita, Sushrut Samhita etc. Western musicians are attracted towards Indian traditional classical music (ex. George Harrison, Yehudi Menuhin), which originated from the Gandharva Veda, the Science of Music. The Bhagwad Gita has been studied, researched and commented upon by intellectual giants of both India and the West. If anyone terms these sciences and scriptures as ‘Hindu Scriptures and Sciences’, then I can’t help but feel pity towards such mindset. What is ‘secular’ and ‘communal’ in these texts or sciences?

If your understanding is considered, all the above people and texts are 'communal'? Sigh..! You seem to be very much busy tagging and categorizing by a superficial understanding of 'Indianness' and 'Hinduism'. No offence to you, but it is such thinking that distorts Indian minds, and leads them into a cultural and religious mess. As observed, by the Supreme Court- "the word "Hinduism" or "Hindutva" indicates the culture of the people of India as a whole, irrespective of whether they are Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews etc.."

If in the foundation of a Nation, its native culture, personalities, native sciences are not even considered and given due credit, and are tagged as 'communal', then I don't think that Nation will ever be able to progress to its heights.

 

[Raaabo]

Indian Economy Going down

Yes, you can say that I feel threatened, but try to read Quran yourself as much as possible and you shall find the evils of the desert cult that started 1400 yrs ago.

That's communal. Being for one religion and against another is exactly that.

Who said anything wrong about yoga, or Ayurveda, or any of the things originating out of India. But if you keep going back to the Mughals to justify the Babri Masjid (which, incidentally for some years had both Muslims and Hindus praying there, thanks to Rajiv Gandhi ordering it be opened to all faiths 1985), I'm just pointing out, why not go back further. Go back to the untouchability and suffering of lack of civil rights under the Maharajas, or lets go back to being apes, while we're at it, or cavemen.

India needs to move forward and get over this stupid sense of being wronged hundreds or thousands of years ago. What's done is done, step into the new age of technology and mathematics - which we Indians are good at - and dominate and prosper like we should. However between Congress and BJP, we're being pulled backwards in time every day, and back to stupid religion-based fighting. How are they different from the British - dividing and ruling us all. You either can choose an over sympathetic to minorities congress that scams the people and robs them blind, or a BJP that divides India, has a history of starting riots and also scamming. Is that the only choices we have? Why? Delve into those subjects and it makes more sense, instead of doing what these idiot parties want you to, and being communalised and spending all your time arguing religion, so that everything else is forgotten.

See this thread, and see how fast it went from economy, congress and BJP to for or against one religion or another - exactly what both these parties want you to do, forget the real problems, and focus on age old ones by scratching old scabs and reopening old wounds.

 

[mediator]

@raaabo - Thanks for personalising. But to me, you are a techn-addict only, totally ignorant of the ground reality regarding politics, "ancient sciences", "modern sciences" as well unable to read their histories, scienctist's testimonials and how they got influenced. For me you are still stuck to NCERT where you never had the will to move beyond and verify as to what all you were 'taught' was correct.

So here's one suggestion, if you are going to discuss with me: Read what I have already posted instead making me assume that tech-addicts are engrossed in their own world unable to read what has been shown to them.

Here's some eye-openers

1. I never claim to be 'secular' as you have ignorantly pointed out without reading my posts and yet drawn unimaginable connections to my state of being. I have given a long history of secularism in this thread alone which seems to have been missed by you. The science of India is beyond inferior terms like 'secularism', 'theism and atheism' for they originate from a doctrine of isolated god, who usually is a "he", "created things and the universe" and has a to be "feared". Once you understand the science of consciousness, there is no division left only.

So basically you need to educate yourself on what exactly is secularism and then realize that Indian never needed secularism. Why? And then perhaps get rid of your herd mentality that "ancient sciences" are irrelevant or "belief system". It is something that your entire "technology" that you are addicted to as based on!

2. Life originated in Africa? Are you still living in the delusions of "Evolution theory" and "believe blindly" that that your ancestors have "Evolved" from some apes? This is been debunked in this forum alone, where evolution has been reduced to joke in international community and challenged by the likes of ID/Genesis etc and modern science by quantum mechanics (Read Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra). So when exactly did "life originate" in Africa may his highness tell me? I don't even know if you are qualified enough (not qualifications) to talk to me about "science" for you might not take the questions I might put forward to you.

Again "Evolution" has been in discussed in Science Vs God. PLease educate yourself on that debate and see my replies.


It seem to me that you are stuck with the word religion. I never knew the great editor and tech-addict would be that brainwashed by the word "religion".


Clearly, you have ignored half of my replies here which talk about secularism and religion.

PLease read :

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-club/39882-science-god-55.html#post1732585

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-club/39882-science-god-55.html#post1733200

And thereby continue reading.


Now your heart seem to beat a little bit for Quran, so please tell me if I can find any other interpretations of these verses

O you who believe, take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoever amongst you takes them for friends he is indeed one of them. Surely Allåh guides not the unjust people. (Quran 5.51)


“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger [i.e., Muhammad], and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter. ( Quran 5.33)”


Fight those who believe not in Allåh, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which Allåh and His Messenger have forbidden, nor follow the Religion of Truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of s subjection (9.29)


and tehn you may read a little detail as well on Quran -> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-club/39882-science-god-55.html#post1733200

Here's a publishing with three translators Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Marmaduke Pickthall, Muhammad Habib Shakir -> Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement


Oh yes, I have read Quran and I'm curious to know here you found "beauty", "medical journal" in the concepts of judgement day, violation of women prisoners, infidels/jews/christians, chopping of hands and limbs etc. And then you go again "generalizing" by stating "All holy books follow the same pattern, and are an attempt to control an ever growing population, get them to be more civilised, and make them more peaceful."

Its an open challenge to you to debate on Quran and find me verses from the shruties (Veda, Upanishads and Gita) that promote the lowly interpretation that you living in based on gross generalization which seems to be a pattern behind your frameworks and thinking which seems to try to understand life by generalizing further based on herd mentality. Its quite clear that you have never read Quran or any other 108 Upanishads, Gita, let alone the Veda! Perhaps you are still ignorant of the concept of sat-chit-ananda which poles apart and contrary to the "fear and control". It is rather a concept based on detachment, bliss and aim of freedom!


I don't really understand of what qualms you have with Modi's style of speaking which is purely Indian or perhaps you want him to use English framework or standard, "proper English" with a mentality that those who know English are only educated and literate enough?

It is clear enough that you are suffering from Max-Muller syndrome here. Do read :

The Max Muller Syndrome: Deceiving Hindus (Part 2) | The Chakra News

This thread was meant to be about politics and economics, I request all members to steer clear of making this religious - hard, since our politicians themselves make it all about that, but please let's be better than our politicians, or else what hope does this country have?

This is fight club. Discussion are bound to digress. Even the mods and gods are not spared, for they jump in between without reading the existing, trying to put their "two cents" and when unable to digest the disagreements show their true nature blooming out in the open.

This thread is crazy. It starts off about the economy, becomes a political argument and is now headed a religious way?

I know this is the fight club, but come on.

I'm not here to close it, but I would like to add my two cents in the hope of perhaps bringing a new perspective that might resonate with a few of you.

That's communal. Being for one religion and against another is exactly that.

Who said anything wrong about yoga, or Ayurveda, or any of the things originating out of India. But if you keep going back to the Mughals to justify the Babri Masjid (which, incidentally for some years had both Muslims and Hindus praying there, thanks to Rajiv Gandhi ordering it be opened to all faiths 1985), I'm just pointing out, why not go back further. Go back to the untouchability and suffering of lack of civil rights under the Maharajas, or lets go back to being apes, while we're at it, or cavemen.

This is again ignorance at its peak, at its best. I don't identify myself with any religion, for science/philosophy is contrary to religion. You are simply attached and brainwashed to a term religion, then to Hinduism which was coined by someone else, with geographic connotations in its original sense and now reduced to religion blindly and then that distortion is followed by the likes of you ignorantly and further dicussed, debated and dissected by you where you are busy tagging others also in that limited framework.

If you think, that pro-India is being Hinduism (in religious sense), then you against the very judgment of Supreme court that was made of 1995. You are against the common sense, logic and facts. Pro-India can also mean Sikhism, Jainism, Shaivism, Vaishnavism, Buddhism. Why ignore these?

Like I already said,

I can only request you to give atleast 5 years to this science of consciousness before you make your next statement.

Post #195


It seems you have totally ignored my previous post, the links I have given throughout this debate alone and now you have reduced yourself to calling me "You are this and you are that"! Great going and here I was expecting a little intellectual discussion from the "great editor", from one of the oldest admin. But I guess "Wisdom dawns with age" has its own exceptions. You can have it in your collection of "nice quotes"!

 

[amjath]

Please stop posting quran verses. A single Arabic word has lots of meaning. Arabic is one of the oldest language. A transliteration of quran gives single meaning which can mean many things.
Ps: I'm not going to debate on the verses.

 

[Raaabo]

Indian Economy Going down

Yes I am ignorant, haven't read a thing apparently o wise and powerful sage. However I refuse to learn from people who hate those who don't agree with them. Neither do I wish to stoop to your level, because it's easy to hide behind anonymity. Please state your real name, state, occupation, place of work before making volatile statements. Everything I say, I say as me, as someone who people here know, and can get in touch with in person.

As for evolution "theory" prove anything you claim to follow is real. Proof mind you, and that means methods like carbon dating, and worldwide accepted techniques, not faith. Yes I believe in technology, apparently so do you, or why else are you here. Disconnect the evil Internet, turn off electricity and go live under the peepal tree and wait for enlightenment.

As for this thread, start a new thread for the discussions you want to have, and when I'm online from a PC I will come back and answer all your questions, however I have a feeling no amount of proof in any matter will ever sway you. Now back to the economy, I will clean up this thread later when on from a PC, or mods can do it for me also please by moving all irrelevant posts, including mine out from this thread into a new one that can be titled as per what mediator wants it to be called.

 

[rishitells]

Please stop posting quran verses. A single Arabic word has lots of meaning. Arabic is one of the oldest language. A transliteration of quran gives single meaning which can mean many things.
Ps: I'm not going to debate on the verses.

Not a single prominent Muslim scholar has ever derived any other meaning than those Quran verses represent. Any word can have a lot of meaning, but the meaning will ultimately hover around the original word, not deviating from the essence. The essence of Abrahamic religions is that, 'Intolerance' towards other religions, as clearly and openly stated in Quran-

"..And whosoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will be never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers.." (V3:85)

Kindly go to any, any Muslim scholar and ask him the meaning. I guarantee you, that they will say the same thing, directly or indirectly i.e. using some cool words or different vocabulary, this is my challenge. I am not trying to demean or disrespect any religion, but presenting exactly what is written, and exactly what 'every' Muslim scholar says.

P.S. - If you don't want to debate, this section is not for you. Kindly don't post if you don't want to be questioned or challenged.