*** Science Or God? ***

[eggman]

:
there you go, they bruteforced it to a few gazillion digits, and they didn't find any exceptions so far. there is no proof of this tho. apparently scientists all over the world, and atheists too, "just know" that this is true.
now you have to believe it's true, that's a little piece of science that works on faith alone.

I can't see the point you are making.It's called a conjecture for a reason. No mathematician would tell you that it's true for all numbers. There is no proof for or against it.
No one 'knows' this for sure, if this happens for ALL n numbers.
There are examples where such conjectures are often proven false for a very high number.
For example take a look at Pólya conjecture :

Pólya's conjecture was disproven by C. B. Haselgrove in 1958. He showed that the conjecture has a counterexample, which he estimated to be around 1.845 × 10361.
An explicit counterexample, of n = 906,180,359 was given by R. Sherman Lehman in 1960;[3] the smallest counterexample is n = 906,150,257, found by Minoru Tanaka in 1980.
The Pólya conjecture fails to hold for most values of n in the region of 906,150,257 ≤ n ≤ 906,488,079. In this region, the Liouville function reaches a maximum value of 829 at n = 906,316,571.

 

[Anorion]

^collatz is considered more or less true, as against say slightly more ambiguous problems such as PvsNP which may or may not be true but most are leaning towards p not equal to np, but there is no proof yet
yeah some conjectures are disproven with counter egs knew of the one above, and that is a tiny number btw, solved before the advent of computing, or cloud computing, if an exception exists to collatz, it's gonna be bigger than very large. conjectures are considered mostly true till proven false (which is rare), consider why some statements are conjectures and others are prolems... , like the p vs np problem (although most scientists are fairly certain that p not equal to np or like ur passwords wudnt be safe)... and conjectures are a step ahead of this... the fact that we have conjectures at all shows bits of science works on belief too, that not all of science is proven

One more thing that prolly shows that there are forces outside the universe affecting ours is quantum entanglement. Basically some particles are tied together across space, so changes to one affect the other instantly. This looks like some information is travelling faster than light.

Science is clumsy, god is not clumsy. Best science can do is smash something against the wall, look at all the pieces and figure out how it works. This is what particle accelerators do.

Right now think our energy, resource and water prolems are not being solved by science. We have to look elsewhere for answers.

 

[Faun]

Right now think our energy, resource and water prolems are not being solved by science. We have to look elsewhere for answers.

I am looking at your replies.

 

[whitestar_999]

Right now think our energy, resource and water prolems are not being solved by science. We have to look elsewhere for answers.

it is not because of science but because of lack of men proficient enough to use science to solve these problems.also "god only helps those who help themselves".

 

[VivekRM]

My Personal Opinion:

When an equation will prove that god exists; we would have reached the pinnacle of scientific progress. No other truth can be greater than that. In the end, both science and religion are attempts to explore the truth, and there can only be one universal truth.

The opinions of science and scientific community are basically limited by the scientific knowledge of the time. As an example, till the end of the 19th century - blood-letting was a scientific medical practice. Basically, if you are ill, doctors would remove measured quantities of blood from your body to cure any disease. The underlying theory in lay man terms is simple: "the bad things are in the blood, so removing it will help cure any disease ". This was a "flawed scientific practice" until new developments proved it wrong.

My point is, we are only limited by our current knowledge. Who knows what developments in science may take place in the future. These new developments may force us to reconsider the very basic laws of science that we take for granted today. But I will believe in my opening paragraph.

Actually, I believe that every major religion is the world is correct, its the humans who are wrong. They twist the truth and underlying meanings in the original text to suit their needs and ignore a few rules for their own greed.

EDIT: Proof of the above is, there are 1000's of editions of the Holy Bible, 100's of editions of the Bhagvad Gita etc etc. So which one can you completely rely on?

 

[CommanderShawnzer]

My Personal Opinion:

When an equation will prove that god exists; we would reached the pinnacle of scientific progress, no other truth can be greater than that. In the end, both science an religion are attempts to explore the truth, and there can only be one universal truth.

The opinions of science and scientific community is basically limited by the scientific knowledge of the time. As an example, till the end of the 19th century - blood-letting was a scientific medical practice. Basically, if you are ill, doctors would remove measured quantities of blood from your body to cure any disease. The underlying theory in lay man terms is simple: "the bad things are in the blood so removing it will help cure any disease ". This was a "flawed scientific" practice until new developments proved it wrong.

My point is, we are only limited by our current knowledge, who knows what developments in science may take place in the future that may force us to reconsider the very basic laws of science that we take for granted today. But I will believe in my opening paragraph.

Actually, I believe that every major religion is the world is correct, its the humans who are wrong. They twist the truth meaning to suit their needs and ignore a few rules for their own greed.

Amen.

Actually, I believe that every major religion is the world is correct, its the humans who are wrong. They twist the truth meaning to suit their needs and ignore a few rules for their own greed

someone please quote this in the "religion do we need it" thread

one fine day people will find out that the Lord is infact an "alien" from an alternate dimension(heaven etc) who is a proficient Bio-engineer and has "technology" to control the world

 

[Anorion]

^that concept is called a demiurge - where god is a physical being and a colossal architect/craftsman

 

[ajaymailed]

and then we may find that there are more alternate worlds/universes (heavens) and more aliens races who can do same thing and finally find out thats it not all that impossible to bio-engineer & control world. then we may find that those aliens also worship a god.

religion, gods question are not gonna go away or be solved with crossing universes, discovering super alien races or no matter how much progress one makes in field of science. they exist right in our minds, thoughts. same may be with any intelligent far-superior alien race.

Human Being requires peace, calm, good/bad, purpose/objective of their, lives answers to questions which science cannot answer and for that they always need a supreme supernatural entity to exist in their minds.

 

[Makx]

What If Humans Were Twice as Intelligent? | What If We Were All as Smart as Isaac Newton? | Human Intelligence | LifesLittleMysteries.com
If humans were twice as intelligent, they would be less religious and more spiritual.

 

[doomgiver]

I'd like to sign up for the 2xBrain Zinger thingy.

Where do I sign?

 

[nikufellow]

Lol there is no science nor god all there exist is Illusion


So what do you guys thing everything came into being from nothingness through big bang (old theory ) or collision between parallel universes (new one) ?
As of now god wins science can't prove itself ! By the time science comes even close to finding our origin we will be near doomsday and the whole cycle will start again - here or anywhere else in this (or other ) universe or dimension whatever they call it and god wins again

 

[doomgiver]

how can collision betwen parallel univeres create ours, lol?

what? science cant prove itself? well, fyki, THEOREMS. dodge that, Mr. Anderson.

and god loses, as we cant prove him!!

we will be near doomsday

100 billion years are long enough, dont you think?

 

[nikufellow]

how can collision betwen parallel univeres create ours, lol?

Honestly i don't know i was 'just' pass in physics ! I do know a bit electrical and electronics stuff but that too just because of the UG Course other than that dimensions and parallel universes and too much an uphill task to grasp for my noob brain .

 

[Makx]

I'd like to sign up for the 2xBrain Zinger thingy.

Where do I sign?

Did you write this for my 'What If Humans Were Twice as Intelligent?' comment...
because I wrote that regarding ajaymailed's comment stating, 'questions which science cannot answer and for that they always need a supreme supernatural entity to exist in their minds'

 

[doomgiver]

twice as intelligent... notice the 2x"brain" zinger

 

[Makx]

ya, I got it, but didn't get if it was intended as a pun or sarcasm or question.

 

[doomgiver]

thats for me to know and you to find out

(YES!!! Always wanted to use that line, now I can die happy)

 

[Drumminggeek]

I think the concept of God was created to simplify the scientific knowledge that the guys of the past (as in ancient times) had, for the common man. Otherwise, he/she wouldn't be able to use the benefits of this knowledge for leading a proper life... I mean look at the way the Universe functions....it would be highly improbable that all this was just chance. I think the concept of God refers to the 'programmer' (I saw that in the mag) or entity controlling the timing and placement of the events happening in the Universe.

 

[nikufellow]

That- do we need religions thread- was more interesting to read than this one

 

[mohiuddin]

the conclusion of this thread is ' there are many things and events going on around us which indicate that it cannot simply occur all by an accident, but also we cannot prove perfectly about the existance of god ' . until god sends us something to strengthen our believes, which will satisfy all of our never ending qouestions.