The official thread for any and all discussion related to Apple Inc.

[goobimama]

Edit: If I had time and patience, I'd write an application cleanly demonstrating how much time you could save keystroking shortcuts than pointing and clicking at things and acting the corely-GUI user way. For new users that is fine, but you do learn to discover better things don't you?

Whoever said you have to keep doing the point and click thing with a GUI based editor like Textmate? Its just as efficient. Besides, OS X is crazy about keyboard shortcuts. You can easily customise any keyboard shortcut for any application. I'm not saying GUI is faster. I'm saying they can both perform equally well and it all depends on your choice. Just saying GUI is less efficient than CLI doesn't quite seem right.

And Mehul is here! Wohoo!

 

[MetalheadGautham]

Whoever said you have to keep doing the point and click thing with a GUI based editor like Textmate? Its just as efficient. Besides, OS X is crazy about keyboard shortcuts. You can easily customise any keyboard shortcut for any application. I'm not saying GUI is faster. I'm saying they can both perform equally well and it all depends on your choice. Just saying GUI is less efficient than CLI doesn't quite seem right.

its simple: CLI is super effitient in those situations when the user is completely aquinted with both his keyboard and the shortcuts/commands. But its rarely the case with the current generation(including myself) because we live in the GUI era. Stallman is from the old era, and hence he is an uber skilled commandline user.

 

[QwertyManiac]

You can justify it all you want but it's a fact, and you know it, that having webpages emailed to you before you read them is just plain stupid. I'm not even sure how it works. How does he Google stuff? Does he never use Google? Do people email him links to webpages that he should check out and he then proceeds to have them emailed to his inbox, unlike the complicated method all we poor people use which involves actually clicking the link?

Ignorant.

He just mentioned his home machine and you blow it out of proportion. And you did not understand how his daemon worked, and you lashed out at it blindly again.

Command line may be faster for some things, specially batch processes and stuff, but it's a well known fact that GUIs are more user friendly and faster. Most command line users I know do it just to feel superior than we poor GUI users who do so just because we don't know any better.

Well known facts that only you know, indeed. I never did pose as someone superior, nor do I feel so. I just know something is right in the way I use it. I haven't lived all my life on CLI by the way. Its not easy downgrading if it were so. And hence is not.

There are two ways to do everything: the easy way and the geeky way, which is hard for normal people. And just because you choose the CLI method doesn't mean that the people who use GUIs do so because they are less smarter than you. It's just pretty clear which method saves time and looks better while doing so.

What is the geeky way? Things you do not understand clearly. I know of many web developers who are very artistic and yet use simple text editors when it comes to coding their webpages seamlessly with their graphical art. Their work is in no way complicated or "geeky" as you call it (Clearly again, things so simple that you do not understand). I did not talk about smartness there, I talked about bad mouthing and calling the actions of those who use simpler stuff foolish. Its you who acted smart and superior.

You never have tried the simpler ways, so don't claim that GUI is better all-in-all. I've seen use cases of file-management being done way faster via a console, and I sometimes practice the same too.

And yeah, I don't have a problem with people using command line for doing their tasks, not even when they're having webpages emailed to them because launching a web browser and typing in the URL is just too darned inconvenient. I don't have a problem with that. But let's call a spade a spade, shall we? Just because Richard Stallman does it doesn't make it any better.

You just don't understand what he does. Hope mehulved made that clear by now.

If Jobs wears white underpants and that seems so nice to you, why can't idiots like you supporting Linux claim the same for their "idol"? Cause you are totally narcissistic that's why.

 

[narangz]

Well CUI can't beat GUI & GUI can't beat CUI.

They are two opposite ends of a coin.

@Mods- Guys can we have these CUI vs. GUI posts moved in a new thread in Fight Club? It'll be interesting & hope without flames

 

[mehulved]

And, I guess I am still off topic. But, seems qwerty isn't explaining properly what he's wanting to say. It's not GUI that's inefficient, it's the point and click method. I feel mouse as a generic device is just too inefficient to perform any task. A GUI program with keyboard shortcuts can be as fast as a CLI editor(psst vim has GUI too in form of a GTK front end GVim, that's as efficient). Yes, there are places where using a keyboard may be inefficient, eg. drawing a picture, there a stylus would be way more effective. At the end of the day it's about getting the work done at the best of your ability then fighting over GUI/CLI, Keyboard/mouse/stylus. BTW, fighting over such things is a good way to reduce our efficiency

 

[narangz]

If Jobs wears white underpants and that seems so nice to you, why can't idiots like you supporting Linux claim the same for their "idol"? Cause you are totally narcissistic that's why.

That was totally un-called for.

 

[QwertyManiac]

Whoever said you have to keep doing the point and click thing with a GUI based editor like Textmate? Its just as efficient. Besides, OS X is crazy about keyboard shortcuts. You can easily customise any keyboard shortcut for any application. I'm not saying GUI is faster. I'm saying they can both perform equally well and it all depends on your choice. Just saying GUI is less efficient than CLI doesn't quite seem right.

And Mehul is here! Wohoo!

Oi, I did not mean all Mac OSX did I? And again when did I say ALL GUI sucks and is slower. Where applicable, CLI does have, and is developed to have, the potential to speed up your work.

I had no grudge against a particular OS here, just Arya's brashness which probably would be there forever. He is not even nearly sane. You're pretty balanced at your views but never him, and I'll never know why.

That was totally un-called for.

So were his comments and even the ignorant replies after them. Its just that even if you guys read an entire post or not, you definitely manage to read the sarcasm part of it and at least that irks you if not the actual underlying point within those other lines. I at least manage to send something through that gets quoted/noticed, now that is good and not my fault you particularly look at insults to drive back a message onto.

Of course, at the end of the day I'll always lose these kind of arguments. No one ever budges. Not to mention, actually read posts. Still, I feel good, and thats nice enough for me.

narangz - Would he stand if I insulted Steve Jobs here? I won't stand him insulting another intellectual either.

 

[narangz]

Do you have the right to insult people? Tell me did he or anyone else insulted you here?

I am against flames & that's what you are doing.

BTW- I read your post that's how I read that part.

 

[aryayush]

@QwertyManiac,
Frankly, I couldn't care less if you insulted Steve Jobs or anyone else out here, except me. The likes of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are far too high in the chain of respect and fame compared to us and nothing you or I can do or say can change that. So I don't know why you feel so insulted when someone calls Richard Stallman stupid when he does something stupid. If you're so sure that he's a great guy, you don't need to fight for his respect on public forums.

And Milind is no more balanced than you or I—he just knows how to be politically correct, and that's indeed a great quality to have when you're chatting on a public forum, and specially about Linux (because Lord knows you're a bad person if you don't appreciate a community effort like Linux).

So, this is the last time I'm saying this: cut out the crap. Move this to another thread if you want. Spare this one. (And no one can blame me now for having started it. Some people just need any excuse to latch on to. It could just as easily have been anyone else's post in this or any other thread.)

At least I'm not replying to any other off-topic post now (so it's a good chance for anyone who wants to have a go at me now).

--------

P.S.: What happened to all the poor avatars? Am I the only one who's not seeing any?

 

[a_k_s_h_a_y]

nice nice.

hey arya isn't this "any and all" discussion related to Apple
So that includes even the toilets used in steve jobs home.

So chill... have fun... flame...battle it out... enjoy the jealousy/frustration of lame people while you enjoy the mac...

 

[jamesbond007]

Boy !! that was exactly what I was planning to write now. Where are our Avtaars, I could only see '?'

 

[goobimama]

Aayush trying to rat me out I see

So have any of you iPhone users tried out Remote Buddy? It is truly teh awwsum. Been using it for a couple of days now. Its really fun to freak out my dumb brother by controlling my mac sitting outside in the balcony.
My uncle doesn't have any money to gift me a license so I might just have to go ahead and buy it.

 

[Tanmay]

So have any of you iPhone users tried out Remote Buddy? It is truly teh awwsum. Been using it for a couple of days now. Its really fun to freak out my dumb brother by controlling my mac sitting outside in the balcony.
My uncle doesn't have any money to gift me a license so I might just have to go ahead and buy it.

VNC is there from ages and does a great job.....

 

[aryayush]

Aayush trying to rat me out I see

Oh, that's what I'm here for, aren't I? I mean, I can't allow people to go all pro-goobimama amidst the healthy aryayush-bashing.

 

[mehulved]

You can justify it all you want but it's a fact, and you know it, that having webpages emailed to you before you read them is just plain stupid. I'm not even sure how it works. How does he Google stuff? Does he never use Google? Do people email him links to webpages that he should check out and he then proceeds to have them emailed to his inbox, unlike the complicated method all we poor people use which involves actually clicking the link?

Boy O Boy! You have no clue, do you? Google pages are designed in HTML and any decent mail client can render HTML. Now, then why can't he use use google or any other site for that matter?
And you definitely don't know what emacs and lisp are. Lisp is such a powerful and complex language and there are a very few people in this world who can master lisp as RMS.
Today any mail client can be used as a browser, barring the multimedia content, just add a Location Bar to it. In case of RMS, he just needs to set a keyboard shortcut or such to open a URL bar.
Yes, you can click the links too. Ever seen an Enter or Return button?
Have you got semblence of clue as to what you're speaking of. Do you know how email and http systems work?

 

[aryayush]

Maybe not. But am I the only one seeing the huge, gaping fallacy in this entire argument?

There is no need or benefit of using the email client to do your web browsing when there are several perfectly capable web browsers out there that are designed and optimised for this very purpose.

What is so difficult to understand about that? Do you use the sprinkler in your garden to take a bath? Or your bicycle to go on a several mile journey? You can do either of those things, but intelligent people don't do that, because that's not what those devices are meant for.

It's unbelievable that I'm having this discussion with a bunch of so called techies and geeks, most of whom are older than me, and none of them seem to be able to wrap their heads around such a simple freakin' concept. If you see a person wearing socks on his hands to keep them warm, instead of gloves, you might think that he's a unique and intelligent person—I think he's just plain stupid.

And so is anyone who uses their email client as a web browser. What's next? A media player as an instant messenger? An antivirus application as a torrent client?

GOD!!

(And I won't even bother pointing out that this discussion is way off-topic anymore because, clearly, I don't seem to be getting the point across.)

 

[iMav]

Maybe not. But am I the only one seeing the huge, gaping fallacy in this entire argument?

using a mail client for browsing the web is out of the ordinary, pretty innovative I would say but every application is made to do what it is supposed to, using it for alternate purposes though is innovative but at the same time weird, I mean why use an application that is supposed to receive mails for browsing the web when you have dedicated browsers, does this mean that the Unix genius thinks that even firefox is worthless, I guess the answer to taht is what you once said:

Because I can.

 

[mehulved]

Doesn't opera bundle torrent client? Can't so many browsers these days play multimedia using plugins.
Please understand what emacs and lisp are before starting a stupid and ignorant troll. Let me once again mention, you have no clue of what he does, if you have then care to elaborate?

 

[goobimama]

VNC is there from ages and does a great job.....

Uh.... have you tried RemoteBuddy? The interface is awesome.

- I can see what someone is doing in my room by sitting right outside in the garden and take a picture if I need proof.
- I can play any iPhone compatible movie/video/song directly from my mac onto my iPhone.
- Browse for files, control presentations with a view of what's happening on the screen.
- Freak out my brother by controlling front row volume and fast forwarding it

I haven't tried VNC or don't even know what it is. But I'm looking into it just in case I might spend on something I don't need.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

@ayyush:

I realised that topics like these are waaay beyond you. What can a person so used to being spoon fed know about commandline and scripting ?

Stallman never actually used an email client. He just scripted (using wget and some other tools in the script) a shell script that fetches mail (which is a html page) via wget (an awssome web fetcher) and displays it on the terminal. He effectively created his own custom program that does only what it should do, and it serves all of RMS's needs. Thats what I call perfect and upto the point. It can do the job better than any web browser, because its designed to do just what needs to be done.