*** Science Or God? ***

Science or God?


  • Total voters
    516

doomgiver

Warframe
it is not illogical.
if you have zero volume, LOGICALLY, you HAVE to have infinite density. what is illogical in that?
and its not just theoretically true. enough evidence has been accumulated to show that the theory behind it is largely correct.

now if we just made a atom-smasher 1000 times more powerful than the LHC, we would COMPLETELY demolish the notion of god. we could theoretically control time, space, EVERYTHING!!!
 

Neuron

Electronic.
Infinite density is not the illogical part.How can you say that something with zero volume exist?If something has zero volume then it is not tangible.Something that can't be touched has infinite density!
 

doomgiver

Warframe
Something that can't be touched has infinite density!

where did you get that? electrons cant be touched. individual atoms cant be touched. quarks cant be touched. do they all have infinite density?

the infinite density and zero volume are because our current understanding of physics is not enough to comprehend it. same thing happened in the 1900's with the discovery of the electron. people dismissed it as a figment of imagination, until the quantum theory kicked in and gave it proper values and characteristics.

i say what they are going to do in the lhc will radically change our views about the universe. and then we will find that nothing is what it seems in the universe, at least wrt singularities and other breaking points of the quantum theory.
 

Neuron

Electronic.
enough evidence has been accumulated to show that the theory behind it is largely correct.

Okay,i never opposed the theory.What I am trying to say is that beyond a certain limit universe is devoid of logic.There are things that cannot be logically predicted but can only be experienced and only then can we say that 'it' is real.
Put simply, scientists discovered black-holes only because its effect was visible on near by planets,not by formulating a theoretical ideology like "if something=something and something else=2.43 then it implies that something with zero volume and infinite density exists".

Something that can't be touched has infinite density!
Not generally,only in the case of singularity.It can't be touched 'coz it has zero volume.You cannot touch something with zero volume.

where did you get that? electrons cant be
touched. individual atoms cant be touched.

Its the other way,you can feel an individual electron,atom etc.
 

amitash

Intel OCer
this is why the whole concept of religion was created by trolls so they could troll while they troll, and make money out of it. religion is the oldest, richest and most unproductive job in the history of mankind. i dont need a god to tell myself that im safe. i dont need a god to survive. i dont need a god to help me eat, see, talk or sh!t.

Maybe you don't, fine, but there are people in this world who do require belief and hope in life.. I think mental peace brings about more harmony and leads to all the "productiveness" you speak about.. and some people do require this, it can be a healing balm to those troubled..

Its the people who became corrupt and misused the system of religion for their profits, not the religion itself.. By this of course im not including those religions that force you to believe in a God..
 

doomgiver

Warframe
Okay,i never opposed the theory.What I am trying to say is that beyond a certain limit universe is devoid of logic.There are things that cannot be logically predicted but can only be experienced and only then can we say that 'it' is real.
the universe is never devoid of logic, my friend!!! logic is the one thing holding the universe together. inability to understand something is because we are not on that "level" of awareness.
case in point. a stone age man will fear and "worship" guns coz he has never understood how they work. a medivial guy will fear and respect atomic bombs coz he doesnt understand them. we fear death, black holes, etc coz we dont understand them. its an endless cycle. there will always be something around the corner which will baffle you coz u have not yet opened your mind.

Put simply, scientists discovered black-holes only because its effect was visible on near by planets,not by formulating a theoretical ideology like "if something=something and something else=2.43 then it implies that something with zero volume and infinite density exists".
they discovered the effect, but

Not generally,only in the case of singularity.It can't be touched 'coz it has zero volume.You cannot touch something with zero volume.Its the other way,you can feel an individual electron,atom etc.
how can you touch an atom?

Maybe you don't, fine, but there are people in this world who do require belief and hope in life.. I think mental peace brings about more harmony and leads to all the "productiveness" you speak about.. and some people do require this, it can be a healing balm to those troubled..
productiveness like inter-tribal(from now on, ill call religion, tribe) warfare. and if someone requires an imaginary friend to console him, i feel very sorry for him, and i think he serious take some psychiatric counselling and a good round of the electric chair.

Its the people who became corrupt and misused the system of religion for their profits, not the religion itself.. By this of course im not including those religions that force you to believe in a God..
who is this god person anyway? what has he done to deserve so much of our time?
 

Anish

Spectre
I answered for who cares..

For those who believe in God:
Have you ever felt the presence of God? Then how? REady to prove it???
Why the hell did more innocents starve hardly for everyday food, isn't GOD merciful?

For those who dont?
Why cant there be a super being un noticed by human intelligence? Take for example a microscopic organism.. it very primitive that with its intelligent, it cant identify a man.. what if we were like that organism and something more superior is there out?

And my attitude:
If GOD is present, let him be there doing his own job. coz, no one (and even god) can help do your work! You carry on your work. If god is really present, then the gods envy us. If god is not present, well and good..then too you must work to get your job finished.

PS:and i mean no harm to any of your feelings
 

doomgiver

Warframe
I answered for who cares..

For those who believe in God:
Have you ever felt the presence of God? Then how? REady to prove it???
Why the hell did more innocents starve hardly for everyday food, isn't GOD merciful?

For those who dont?
Why cant there be a super being un noticed by human intelligence? Take for example a microscopic organism.. it very primitive that with its intelligent, it cant identify a man.. what if we were like that organism and something more superior is there out?

And my attitude:
If GOD is present, let him be there doing his own job. coz, no one (and even god) can help do your work! You carry on your work. If god is really present, then the gods envy us. If god is not present, well and good..then too you must work to get your job finished.

PS:and i mean no harm to any of your feelings

wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head!!!

if there is a super-being, it cannot go un-noticed. but humans have a bad habit of downgrading exciting stuff into everyday boring stuff.

eg : is that superman?!?!? prolly a bird or a plane, lol.

right about that microbe in a petri dish analogy (reminds me of the ending scene of MIB, where our universe is just another marble in the being's hand), we wont be aware of anything greater than us, unless we change our way of thinking. and who thinks for us? the scientists!!!

get it? we are comfortable and complacent, we just sit around on our butts lazing around, we dont want to solve any of life's mysteries, we just care for stupid facebook and stupid converse, stupid apple, stupid gucci. its the scientists who do all the thinking for us, and for all that, what do they get??? fame? recognition? no, it all goes to stupid rajnikanth, stupid aishwarya, stupid SRK. they also get sidelined when they try to prove that an imaginary thing like god does not exist.
 

Anish

Spectre
right about that microbe in a petri dish analogy (reminds me of the ending scene of MIB, where our universe is just another marble in the being's hand), we wont be aware of anything greater than us, unless we change our way of thinking. and who thinks for us? the scientists!!!

yeah dude i too was thinking of the MIB while writing this
 

amitash

Intel OCer
productiveness like inter-tribal(from now on, ill call religion, tribe) warfare. and if someone requires an imaginary friend to console him, i feel very sorry for him, and i think he serious take some psychiatric counselling and a good round of the electric chair.

Again, inter-religious warfare is all due to the people and not the core of religion itself.. its the people who fight, religions (atleast most of them dont) dont ask you to fight and kill people in its name to spread it.. The people do that.. Its not so different from fighting for rights of nuclear weapons.. Do the weapons ask you to misuse them on the innocent and not just for self defence? NO the people do this.. Did football ask Zidane to headbutt that italian guy? Did cricket ask the indian fans in the 1996 worldcup to set fire to the stadium, cause unnecesary violence and stone the players as their team was loosing?

if someone requires an imaginary friend to console him, i feel very sorry for him

Again, I think its safe for me to assume you have a fairly comfortable life which promotes free thinking.. Think of the millions of poor people, or people being told something and forced into religion from their childhood.. People in short, who have not had the opportunity or the enthusiasm but believe blindly.. you would just, as you said "put them in an electric chair"? How can one person even begin to understand the problems and motivation that all these people have towards their religion? If a person kills all these people in the name of "atheism", then how does it make him any better than a religious person killing another religious person? People fight believing their belief system is better.. If an atheist fights, isnt he doing just the same thing?

who is this god person anyway? what has he done to deserve so much of our time?
A God may be many different things to many different people.. Is he an all powerfull diety? Is he just a psychological cure? Is he just a fast-moving beam of energy which caused creation?

People who believe he is a strong deity think he deserves time for being responsible for creation..
People who find their minds calmed by the notion of a God go to him to be at their sense of peace..
People who think he is a beam of energy fire sub-atomic particles at each other, spending billions of dollars, just to understand God better..

All of these people at the core, are looking for answers.. Where did we come from? What is the meaning of life? And hence they have come up with various answers.. Answers called Islam, Christianity, The Hindu hymn of creation, The big bang theory, evolution.. You are free to agree or disagree with any of these answers.. The problem happens when people start moving away from these answers and use them selfishly..
 

doomgiver

Warframe
Again, inter-religious warfare is all due to the people and not the core of religion itself.. its the people who fight, religions (atleast most of them dont) dont ask you to fight and kill people in its name to spread it.. The people do that.. Its not so different from fighting for rights of nuclear weapons.. Do the weapons ask you to misuse them on the innocent and not just for self defence? NO the people do this.. Did football ask Zidane to headbutt that italian guy? Did cricket ask the indian fans in the 1996 worldcup to set fire to the stadium, cause unnecesary violence and stone the players as their team was loosing?
the very definition of religion creates this divide. the world would be a better place without it.
everyone assumes his or her religion is the best, all others are useless, but the 'others' think the same way too. this just leads to meaningless violence.


Again, I think its safe for me to assume you have a fairly comfortable life which promotes free thinking.. Think of the millions of poor people, or people being told something and forced into religion from their childhood.. People in short, who have not had the opportunity or the enthusiasm but believe blindly.. you would just, as you said "put them in an electric chair"? How can one person even begin to understand the problems and motivation that all these people have towards their religion? If a person kills all these people in the name of "atheism", then how does it make him any better than a religious person killing another religious person? People fight believing their belief system is better.. If an atheist fights, isnt he doing just the same thing?
im not talking about killing them. i just said that they should get their heads checked.
a human being is a superemely motivated animal. given the right motivation, he is capable of the greatest feats, the basest cruelties. this religious bs gives him motivation to do stuff. it is not healthy. it has an unhealthy effect on the mind. god, im rambling (lol), back to the point.
an atheist fights to rid the world of "blindness". he fights to destroy unnecessary suffering. i fight to show that THERE IS ANOTHER WAY. in an atheists' way, you donot need a god to tell you to love your fellow man, he does it out of kindness in his heart. how many believers are there who can say that? how many have died thinking that they were going to be saved/were protected by god? how many were actually protected? why were the rest not saved?


A God may be many different things to many different people.. Is he an all powerfull diety? Is he just a psychological cure? Is he just a fast-moving beam of energy which caused creation?

People who believe he is a strong deity think he deserves time for being responsible for creation..
People who find their minds calmed by the notion of a God go to him to be at their sense of peace..
People who think he is a beam of energy fire sub-atomic particles at each other, spending billions of dollars, just to understand God better..

All of these people at the core, are looking for answers.. Where did we come from? What is the meaning of life? And hence they have come up with various answers.. Answers called Islam, Christianity, The Hindu hymn of creation, The big bang theory, evolution.. You are free to agree or disagree with any of these answers.. The problem happens when people start moving away from these answers and use them selfishly..
is it not illogical? imagine a soldier going to battle, he calls upon all gods to aid him. then he removes all his armor and weapons, and goes into an enemy bunker. what do you get? a martyr. for all his "bhakti" and devotion, he gets a bodybag. if he had used logic, he would be alive kicking the enemy's butt.

is this what you want? to put your trust in an intangible "entity"? about whom you have no idea or means of communication? how do we know the god is just and merciful? how do we know that he is not evil and manipulative?

if you really want answers, turn to logic and science. the road may be long and hard, yes, but the fruits of hard labour are the sweetest.

People who think he is a beam of energy fire sub-atomic particles at each other, spending billions of dollars, just to understand God better..

well said!!! it is an honor to spar with you!!
 

Neuron

Electronic.
the universe is never devoid of logic, my friend!!! logic is the one thing holding the universe together. inability to understand something is because we are not on that "level" of awareness.

Can you give me one example that according to you is illogical?Anything that you find to be illogical.

how can you touch an atom?

You cannot see or sense a singular atom because your receptors are too big.
If you were such a small organism or if you had powerful sense ,feeling an atom is no big deal.
 

amitash

Intel OCer
the very definition of religion creates this divide. the world would be a better place without it.
everyone assumes his or her religion is the best, all others are useless, but the 'others' think the same way too. this just leads to meaningless violence.

Again, my point is, its the peoples choice.. They cause the divide, not the religion itself.. The notion of a "divide" is always going to be there, may it be religion, sports, patriotism, etc.. Religion is not at fault here but the people who misuse it.. Would the world be a better place without religion? I certainly think it would be a better place without religions that force people to do things, as I said, a religion like hinduism say (which is more of a way of life imo), which does not force anything upon you actually helps benefit the world.. but sadly corruption ruins this too.. And again corruption is due to the people..
It's just like saying everyone assumes their country is the best, their color is the best, their scientific theory is the best, which again causes violence, and as humans there are going to be plenty of divides between people, it's how we can live peacefully with these divides is what matters, not waging an all out war against one type of divide, which will just cause more bitterness.

im not talking about killing them. i just said that they should get their heads checked.
a human being is a superemely motivated animal. given the right motivation, he is capable of the greatest feats, the basest cruelties. this religious bs gives him motivation to do stuff. it is not healthy. it has an unhealthy effect on the mind. god, im rambling (lol), back to the point.

religion motivates people to do very great and good things as well as terrriblr ones as you said, but at the core, religion just motivates, good or bad is again upto the people.. People of science have invented both nuclear reactors which provides limitless energy as well as the nuclear bomb.. Will you blame and destroy science because of this invention?

an atheist fights to rid the world of "blindness". he fights to destroy unnecessary suffering. i fight to show that THERE IS ANOTHER WAY. in an atheists' way, you donot need a god to tell you to love your fellow man, he does it out of kindness in his heart.

As I said earlier, as humans there are always going to be differences.. In an ideal world there wouldnt be any but its not an ideal world and can never be as long as we have emotions.. People from all religions will say the same thing, my religion is "IDEAL", I will show you the way, bla, bla.. keep in mind that religion came into existence just the same way that atheism did.. It is not flawless, no ethical system ever is..

how many believers are there who can say that? how many have died thinking that they were going to be saved/were protected by god? how many were actually protected? why were the rest not saved?

Agreed, great many have died foolishly.. However, this is true with all forms of murder, how many have died in the nuclear bombings of japan, just for a country to show its might? How many have died in vietnam? How many died in the fascist rule? How many died due to requirement of unnecassary power rather than co-operation?

is it not illogical? imagine a soldier going to battle, he calls upon all gods to aid him. then he removes all his armor and weapons, and goes into an enemy bunker. what do you get? a martyr. for all his "bhakti" and devotion, he gets a bodybag. if he had used logic, he would be alive kicking the enemy's butt.

Is it not illogical to fight and turn to violence at all in the first place? Hinduism and other non-abrahamic religions tell you just that, it doesnt tell you not to fight on the battlefield, it tells you not to start a fight at all.. Is'nt that the best logic?

is this what you want? to put your trust in an intangible "entity"? about whom you have no idea or means of communication? how do we know the god is just and merciful? how do we know that he is not evil and manipulative?

I never said put your trust in God.. I merely said, don't fight even though you have your differences.. Some people need to believe, need to believe that in this cruel world, there is some hope, for this some of them turn to science, some to religion, it is their choice and ours to respect their choice as long as it doesnt cause any harm.. It is hard for some people to accept that their lives are meaningless.. That they are just chemical reactions and will soon fade, they need that belief and hope to keep them spirited and happy.. This need has been misused which is wrong, but the need itself, is very much an important factor.

if you really want answers, turn to logic and science. the road may be long and hard, yes, but the fruits of hard labour are the sweetest.

Agreed, but this cannot and should not be forced on people.. It is their choice to make as to what road they follow.. Logic and science comes from what information we have.. Maybe at the time of creation of a religion, with the information that the people had, the subsequent religion was the logical conclusion.. Or in some cases, maybe people just wanting to control..
 

doomgiver

Warframe
the concept of worshiping a god is illogical in the extreme.
how can you ask anything from a hypothetical something that you cannot even detect?
how can you even expect that your "prayers" will be heard?


i meant that how can YOU touch/feel an atom, forget about others, i am concerned only about humans.
 

Neuron

Electronic.
the concept of worshiping a god is illogical in the extreme.

how can you even expect that your "prayers" will be heard?

We all know that conscience of a living being is possible due to the co-ordinated communication between nerve-cells or similar structures.Many of these cells interact each other to develop many emotions and to bring forth logical decisions.In a similar way,may be a group of particles can be brought to particular state at which they inter-transmit some form of energy so that there develops a state of conscience.This conscience can be in such a way that it can sense other 'state of minds' too and also it can trigger some events in relation to the thoughts it sense.Why should this be illogical?Of-course something like this haven't yet been discovered,but you can't disregard the possibility.

how can you ask anything from a hypothetical something that you cannot even detect?

How can you say that something which cannot be sensed cannot exist.
Humans cannot sense sounds with frequency below 20Hz and above 20KHz,but sound below and beyond that frequency is producable.Until the invention of infrared sensors wasn't there infrared light?

i meant that how can YOU touch/feel an atom, forget about others, i am concerned only about humans.

Suppose an atom is accelerated by some means.This atom passes through your body following random paths several times.Progressively your internals get cut and start to bleed because a definite volume of the atom as well as your body come into contact.But no matter how many times a zero-volume particle passes through your body,you won't get cut by any means since no real contact is possible.
 

doomgiver

Warframe
We all know that conscience of a living being is possible due to the co-ordinated communication between nerve-cells or similar structures.
conscience is in NO way related to cells, neurons or otherwise. it is just a judgement of what a person believes to be right or wrong. its a part of consciousness and sentience.

Many of these cells interact each other to develop many emotions and to bring forth logical decisions.In a similar way,may be a group of particles can be brought to particular state at which they inter-transmit some form of energy so that there develops a state of conscience.This conscience can be in such a way that it can sense other 'state of minds' too and also it can trigger some events in relation to the thoughts it sense.Why should this be illogical?Of-course something like this haven't yet been discovered,but you can't disregard the possibility.
to be sentient, the "group of particles" would have to be larger than the solar system, and as dense as thick fog. highly unlikely.
all evidence till date points to the "this is total bs" in the bs meter. of course, no possiblity, however remote, can be disregarded, BUT, it is not prudent to assume just because a thing might exist, to take its existence for granted, without any real evidence.

even if such a "god" exists, what would he want from us? what could we do to please/placate/lure(???) him? if he's a mass of particles, he might not even count us as living beings, and just ignore, as we ignore ants. NOW TELL ME, IN THIS CASE, WHAT GOOD WOULD YOUR RELIGION/BHAKTI/SACRIFICE/WHATEVER BE, IF THE GOD DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING???

on a scarier note, what if he is aware, and is intentionally igniting the tensions in the world, just for the sake of fun?

i say, if this world is ruled by a god, it is a very evil god indeed.


How can you say that something which cannot be sensed cannot exist.
where did i say that?

Suppose an atom is accelerated by some means.This atom passes through your body following random paths several times.Progressively your internals get cut and start to bleed because a definite volume of the atom as well as your body come into contact.But no matter how many times a zero-volume particle passes through your body,you won't get cut by any means since no real contact is possible.

no big deal. a single atom cannot do much harm on its own. even in the above scenario, it'd take several billion passes before any noticible damage is done.
 

Neuron

Electronic.
conscience is in NO way related to cells, neurons or otherwise. it is just a judgement of what a person believes to be right or wrong. its a part of consciousness and sentience.
The truth is that i mistook the meaning of 'conscience'.I was intending 'consciousness'.Replace 'conscience' with 'consciousness' and read that again.


to be sentient, the "group of particles" would have to be larger than the solar system, and as dense as thick fog. highly unlikely.
Why?Is there a law stating the same?
all evidence till date points to the "this is total bs" in the bs meter.
Well,if the year was AD1000,and your ideologies where same as of now,if I had told you that "There is an entity with zero volume and infinite density",your bs meter reading might go past the tbs mark and explode.

of course, no possiblity, however remote, can be disregarded, BUT, it is not prudent to assume just because a thing might exist, to take its existence for granted, without any real evidence.
I wasn't telling you otherwise.

even if such a "god" exists, what would he want from us? what could we do to please/placate/lure(???) him?
That nobody knows for sure.May be this is when we should analyse what that is said in the Vedas etc. rather than following the all the religious traditions blindly.

if he's a mass of particles, he might not even count us as living beings, and just ignore, as we ignore ants. NOW TELL ME, IN THIS CASE, WHAT GOOD WOULD YOUR RELIGION/BHAKTI/SACRIFICE/WHATEVER BE, IF THE GOD DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING???
Don't you know that every living being is formed of non-living particles.These non-living atoms join in various proportions to form indifferent living forms.

NOW TELL ME, IN THIS CASE, WHAT GOOD WOULD YOUR RELIGION/BHAKTI/SACRIFICE/WHATEVER BE, IF THE GOD DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING???
The particle system i suggested has consciousness and conscience.Just like mass possess gravity,this system has the property of causing events that depends on one's deeds.

on a scarier note, what if he is aware, and is intentionally igniting the tensions in the world, just for the sake of fun?
i say, if this world is ruled by a god, it is a very evil god indeed.
Could be ,could not be.But its not like that every one around the world is in agony.There is a random mixture of both sadness and happiness.

where did i say that?
Sense/detect what i said applies for both.

no big deal. a single atom cannot do much harm on its own. even in the above scenario, it'd take several billion passes before any noticible damage is done.

A several billion passes is enough.With light speed it doesn't make more than one second to have you sliced.A zero-vol particle no matter even if it takes infinite passes you'll still be the same.
 

doomgiver

Warframe
Why?Is there a law stating the same?
yes, the units have to interact with each other with sufficient frequency. the thick fog was a low estimate. i'd say something with density like shaving foam would do.

Well,if the year was AD1000,and your ideologies where same as of now,if I had told you that "There is an entity with zero volume and infinite density",your bs meter reading might go past the tbs mark and explode.
yes, i see where this is going.


That nobody knows for sure.May be this is when we should analyse what that is said in the Vedas etc. rather than following the all the religious traditions blindly.
what if the vedas are wrong? the vedas say to divide the society into castes. bravo.

Don't you know that every living being is formed of non-living particles.These non-living atoms join in various proportions to form indifferent living forms.
umm, thats elementary, watson. what is your point here? it goes right over my poor tiny brain.

The particle system i suggested has consciousness and conscience.Just like mass possess gravity,this system has the property of causing events that depends on one's deeds.
so its like a vending machine? put a coin(bad deed) you get 1 can, kick it(good deed) u get lots of cans. also, the "property" which you talk about is not INHERENT. else everything, including the clouds and the stars, would be sentient.


Could be ,could not be.But its not like that every one around the world is in agony.There is a random mixture of both sadness and happiness.
more like frustation, anger and sadness. have you met someone really happy with life? like all rainbows and sunshine and lalalala? positive emotions are completely overwhelmed by the negative ones.

Originally Posted by doomgiver
i meant that how can YOU touch/feel an atom, forget about others, i am concerned only about humans
Originally Posted by Neuron
How can you say that something which cannot be sensed cannot exist.
Sense/detect what i said applies for both.
umm, I said that you cannot touch/feel/sense/detect an atom with your regular senses


A several billion passes is enough.With light speed it doesn't make more than one second to have you sliced.A zero-vol particle no matter even if it takes infinite passes you'll still be the same.
i dont think so. the quantum effects come into play with something so small. and the weak force and strong force too. there will be detection. that is how electrons were detected in the first place.
why are we even discussing this? i just meant tht you cannot sense an atom.

sorry, didnt see it before.

dont mind if i dont make sense, im sleepy.

Again, my point is, its the peoples choice.. They cause the divide, not the religion itself.. The notion of a "divide" is always going to be there, may it be religion, sports, patriotism, etc.. Religion is not at fault here but the people who misuse it.. Would the world be a better place without religion? I certainly think it would be a better place without religions that force people to do things, as I said, a religion like hinduism say (which is more of a way of life imo), which does not force anything upon you actually helps benefit the world.. but sadly corruption ruins this too.. And again corruption is due to the people..
It's just like saying everyone assumes their country is the best, their color is the best, their scientific theory is the best, which again causes violence, and as humans there are going to be plenty of divides between people, it's how we can live peacefully with these divides is what matters, not waging an all out war against one type of divide, which will just cause more bitterness.

i agree, man has no one, but himself to blame. so is it not our responsiblity to remove all such hurdles which stand between global harmony and brotherhood/sisterhood (like religion, god; na rahega baas, na bajegi baasuri)
hinduism has caste system, offerings, blah blah


religion motivates people to do very great and good things as well as terrriblr ones as you said, but at the core, religion just motivates, good or bad is again upto the people.. People of science have invented both nuclear reactors which provides limitless energy as well as the nuclear bomb.. Will you blame and destroy science because of this invention?

science is not colored by emotional glasses. it accepts with a cold and calculating logic. there is no "my tech is better than yours".


As I said earlier, as humans there are always going to be differences.. In an ideal world there wouldnt be any but its not an ideal world and can never be as long as we have emotions.. People from all religions will say the same thing, my religion is "IDEAL", I will show you the way, bla, bla.. keep in mind that religion came into existence just the same way that atheism did.. It is not flawless, no ethical system ever is..

ethics are flawed at the core. its seekers tend to place themselves above others. "oh, look, im so damned ethical, i have the higher moral ground, so i will rain down judgement upon you"



Is it not illogical to fight and turn to violence at all in the first place? Hinduism and other non-abrahamic religions tell you just that, it doesnt tell you not to fight on the battlefield, it tells you not to start a fight at all.. Is'nt that the best logic?

yes it is, but then to protect hinduism, you have to resort to violence, else moggledegooks(example only) will wipe us out. dilemma




Agreed, but this cannot and should not be forced on people.. It is their choice to make as to what road they follow.. Logic and science comes from what information we have.. Maybe at the time of creation of a religion, with the information that the people had, the subsequent religion was the logical conclusion.. Or in some cases, maybe people just wanting to control..

as i said, its up to you. pick your sides, i will be as judging and condescending and mean and logical as i want to you because you chose the easy way out(not directed to anyone in particular)

believe me, man will do anything for a bit of control.

thats why gods were invented.

give god sacrifice, god appeased, god does not send a plague of locusts. MAN HAS CONTROL!!!
 

Neuron

Electronic.
yes, the units have to interact with each other with sufficient frequency. the thick fog was a low estimate. i'd say something with density like shaving foam would do.
Again,which theory/law states this?

yes, i see where this is going.
:smile:

what if the vedas are wrong? the vedas say to divide the society into castes. bravo.
There are already plenty of arguments going on about if this is the case or not.Ancient texts like Upanishads describe 'Yoga' practices.These practices are accepted scientifically.Then why should the remaining part be fatuous?

umm, thats elementary, watson. what is your point here? it goes right over my poor tiny brain.
You stated that the particle-system cannot be regarded as a living being since its components are dead-particles.I said every living being is made of dead-particles at the core.


the "property" which you talk about is not INHERENT.
Why shouldn't?Why is it illogical?

else everything, including the clouds and the stars, would be sentient.

Why do you say so?I can't see how those 2 are related?

more like frustation, anger and sadness. have you met someone really happy with life? like all rainbows and sunshine and lalalala? positive emotions are completely overwhelmed by the negative ones.
So when you look around, you don't see a single one living happily?All are in eternal misery and pain?
 
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