*** Science Or God? ***

[amitash]

^Well of course our ancestors werent stupid...they had their scientific theories of which some have been proved and some have been woefully wrong...the thing is that whenever that something related to god or anything that has a strong belief system like vastu, astrology, etc are disproved, people dont like it...they arent prepared to change their entire belief system which has been folowed for generations...on the contrary science is ever changing and if you dont respect the proofs offered by it, you are hindering world progress, thus theism is very dangerous.....and is see you havent replied to my other arguements.

 

[naveen_reloaded]

The arguments you are giving here reflects how much do you know about the topic.
Judging be your remarks, i can say that u are an ignorant person who do not know about history and culture of india.

thanks and nearly 90% indians dont know.. so that makes everything equal.

U dont even know when Dayanand Saraswati born as you have written it around 2000 yrs ago? He was born on February 12 in 1824

did he invent anything ? did he sacrifice himself for any good cause ( atleast this is the reason , i came to kow about jesus LOL ) or did he discover india ?
He is just a founder of another cult , so stop being , dont you know him ... stuff...

If you think that what Dayanand Saraswati had done is just foundation of arya samaj, then follow the link
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayanand_Saraswati

even though i too sometimes give wiki link , they are not that reliable ... simply coz its edited by people , i mean anybody can edit it ....

for eg : *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

if u belive in this fraud too , kindly go thru
Claims of materialization and other miracles

they would have explained many..

more over , since becuse u knew someone doesnt make that everyone should know , making a min requiremnet to comment against religion , we atheist belieeve in common sense not nonsense like dyanand or whoever it is ...

This is actually not ur fault. Giving arguments against anyone believe system hurts them.

stop whinning !!

Well, I have not commented on ur linguistic skills. I just said that you dont know sanskrit and i was not defending myself but Dayanand Saraswati.
I dont know sanskrit too so chill.

so wht are u saying ? get hold of your comment dude...

I too dont belive in sun pulled by seven chariots or rahu/ketu phenomena.
But I belive in vedas and belive me this things are not there in vedas again acc. to "satyarth parkash". This things are developed by some greedy brahmans to make money out of people.

i too dont belive in sun pulled by seven chariot , but i belive in Lord of the rings and belive me , this things are not in bagavagita , again acc to "J.R.R.Tolkien". these things are developed my sony and MPAA to make money out of people !! LOL ROFL !!!

I urge all the people in this forum/thread to read that people. It has the power to satisfy all ur inner voice questions.

i urge all the people in this forum to read LOFR book and keep your mind free and get freedom from religion which ties you down to earth !! Fly Free !! keep your mind open! and satiffy your inner feelings ... LOL

I want to answer one more thing to you. Why the hell do you think ancient people had not had scientific knowledge.
This is a natural law, one who have a begning must have an end and civilisations too come under this law. Older civilisation were too very advanced because they have seen more than 5ooo yrs of prosperity. Our civiliastion is just 2000 yrs old with many important development have been made in recent 100 yrs.

did they invent nuclear energy ? weird , i never knew they did ...!!!
so what ? begining and the end ? am i seeing a matrix movie here ? DAMN!!

older civilization are advanced ? they are intellignet , i agree ? but ther eis difference between adavanced and intelligent individuals...

for eg : america , UK are advanced civilization ( for eg ) compared to africa!

thats what called advanced... more they use this term advanced in history channel becoz they compare it with " that period " civilization to the one theyare descibing ... so dont be confused...
and wht is that 5000 yrs prosperity ?

Dont think people at that time were fools. Sceintific phenomena were there at that time to be discovered.
I hope I have clear myself, but if you have any doubt, then throw them at me.

i never said they are fools , there are the briliant scholars and other well known scientist in those period , but all iam saying , wht is the link for them and the god ?

did " I " make my self clear ?

 

[sujoyp]

Great discussion here

I neither belive in god fully coz all indian mythologies r some sort of stories and not even close to some psychological help...Love Gita updesha for its thoughts on day to day life.

I also belive in science....but again science didnt satisfy me totally...It could not explaing beyond vibgyor the seven colors that makes images in our eyes

 

[rhitwick]

I also belive in science....but again science didnt satisfy me totally...It could not explaing beyond vibgyor the seven colors that makes images in our eyes

u r agnostic...

And science created CAMERA which follows the same concept.

 

[micro_vishal]

Sorry for late reply, the site was showing some DB error.

human dirt ?

wht is human dirt ?

so human are filthy ? as afar as god is concerned.. thats awesome... !!!
--------------

human dirt = human waste
human dirt = ego, proudiness, selfishness
human dirt = pain, sufferings. Understand????

he doesnt need ant assisitence ... cool ... !! so to put all athieist question to dust bin , the very basic question , you conclude that he cant be created nor destroyed...

wait i read this same sentecnce in school .. its called " energy " , but its very different , coz it doesnt consider humans as dirt and doesnt help others or anyone .. its just ENERGY !!! doesnt have super human + super computer brainas god !

I have said that the god is beginingless and who has no begining, has no end.
If your mind cant imagine such a thing, think of a circle.
Niether could happen by itself, can any?? Energy can not arranged itself to make a galaxy.
The universe around is working on very precise physical laws and physical constants.
small variation in that can cause total collaspe of the universe. This leads only to one thing that whole process is very thought out by some intelligence. Besides whatever you see in this world(just look into your room) has a creator and u think that the whole universe is made by itself, now thats strange.

so u are saying churches are waste and priest can go to home and work as a farmer ?
then why are we having a booth for forgiveness ? in churches ?
or a tree to wish for ?
if he cant forgive , he is worst than me , ( human ) , thiruvalluvar has said that those who forgive are the real human being , i never knew god was the real dirt !! funny

your comments / reply are becoming funnier ... keep it goinf bro..

ya! thats what i am saying that all churches, temples etc are waste and priest can go home and work as a farmer or do whatever they like.
By the way, why are you believing in church if you dont believe in God.
It all wrong practises that we have a place for forgiveness or tree....
Think like this, If a judge of a court makes dawood Ibrahim or osama bin laden free from all charges, what will you say that he is a real good human being???
You probably protest outside of the court and demand for some action against the jugde.
Punishment are for to make people a better human being, so that they wont repeat same error again. On the whole, Punishment is more benifieshry for the society than forgiveness. God works for the society, not for individuals.

you only said he creates , destroyts and does everything by himself... now , you say he does intervene ... so i assume god = terrorist since , god doesnt need any help ... man i cant stop laughing ,

use some common sense bro...

if its going to get destroyed ? why did he create it in first place ?

my thought is there could be EARTH 1.0 , ours is EARTH BETA version ..... now i get it !!!! damn my brain !!!

I cant see any logic in what you are saying, but i try to answer.
I said he does not intervene. God does not kill anyone so he is not a terrorist. Persons who kill another has their own soul to make desicion for them.
The last two question are easily answered in the book that i had suggested earlier (Sorry out of scope to explain)
The universe has a begining and hence will end some day. Then new universe will be created. Its all a cycle. begin-end-begin-end.
See you too getting it right, its ok for me if you name it beta or 1.1.

sorry i dont want to read them ... based on your replies .. i can conclude how great they will be and i think i wont able to understand ... coz i too dont know who was dayanad saraswati is ...
judge me accordingly ?? how ?

so u say at one point he doesnt intervene when a f()cking bomb goes offf... so whoever dies in that bomb are BAD guys ??

GOD must be awesome , as he had seen the future of a new born , and see thru his all life and conlcude that this child will grow as a bad guy -- let me kill him .... man your god gets more and more funnier and weird ...


seems like a sadist to me

So you are saying that only bad persons dies, not good persons???
Death is inevitable for everyone, no one can escape.
So why prevent that which has to happen.
Good persons die too man!! only styles differ. lol
If you can sit on internet all day writing your views here and there, than you can read a page from wikipedia too. Reading is more benefishery than writing crap.
God knows past and future of this creation, not karma of every individual being.
He does not take account of when you go to sht.

so u say , a power who was not created , destoyred has no middle thing ( pen!s ? ) is just doing the work of judging us ? thats very lame ?

wht his next plan ?

and why doesnt anuimals worship him ?

death is the ultimate one ? so god who is undestuctable made human life limited ? thats mean !!!!



anyway looking forward for you to quote my replies and reply to that... lets see how funnier it can get ....

He is creating, maintaining, destroying, judging(all in the universe). I think thats very hard for some one to do. If you think its lame, you should try it.
You should be thankful to him that he is doing that. Good persons exist in this worlds because of that.
God does not ask for worship, If you are not worshiping him, its fine with him.
God needs us to be a hard worker. God needs us to do the work assigned to us. In our case it is work for the betterment of society and nature on this earth.
Didn't you know, animals dont have that much of intelligence.
You or we should be happy that we are humans so we can talk on this subject.lol

At the end, it all a debate. I cant change your belive system, neither you can change mine. I am not seeing any benefit from this to both of us. But if you ask more, i will reply.

 

[micro_vishal]

thanks and nearly 90% indians dont know.. so that makes everything equal.

90% indians believe in God too, so why you dont.
So you are saying that if 90% of indians are idiot then there is no harm to be one.
Man! This is hillarius, suck for u though.

did he invent anything ? did he sacrifice himself for any good cause ( atleast this is the reason , i came to kow about jesus LOL ) or did he discover india ?
He is just a founder of another cult , so stop being , dont you know him ... stuff...

Yes he rediscover the vedas in its true meaning which are the books of immense knowledge. He sacrifies himself too for the betterment of society. He was murdered because he was destroying old/wrong myths and traditions of hinduism and other religions.

even though i too sometimes give wiki link , they are not that reliable ... simply coz its edited by people , i mean anybody can edit it ....

for eg : *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

if u belive in this fraud too , kindly go thru
Claims of materialization and other miracles

I don't believe in satya sai baba. Are you not reading my post or you mentally retarded. I have said God didn't take birth, and this satya sai claimed to be a God. Again opposite of my belive.

more over , since becuse u knew someone doesnt make that everyone should know , making a min requiremnet to comment against religion , we atheist belieeve in common sense not nonsense like dyanand or whoever it is ...

yes!!! I can see that what you know and dont know. I dont know even you read your science book serieously.

i too dont belive in sun pulled by seven chariot , but i belive in Lord of the rings and belive me , this things are not in bagavagita , again acc to "J.R.R.Tolkien". these things are developed my sony and MPAA to make money out of people !! LOL ROFL !!!

Again, out of logic showing your weekness and DEFEAT

did they invent nuclear energy ? weird , i never knew they did ...!!!
so what ? begining and the end ? am i seeing a matrix movie here ? DAMN!!

Its hard to make a claim here. But Inventing nuclear bomb is not a clever move by the way.

older civilization are advanced ? they are intellignet , i agree ? but ther eis difference between adavanced and intelligent individuals...

for eg : america , UK are advanced civilization ( for eg ) compared to africa!

Sorry, I do not understand what are u saying. Please explain this point.

and wht is that 5000 yrs prosperity ?

I am talking about vedic civislisation which stays for 5000 yrs.

 

[sujoyp]

u r agnostic...

And science created CAMERA which follows the same concept.

whatever u say
just think for a second....what u cant see u wont believe...and soo our belief is not beyond the seven colours...

ok I am actually not talking abt ghosts and gods bcoz its again a human created thing....but a mere simple thing....that there can be something beyond our eyesight too that science cant not explain

 

[skeletor]

We're living in a matrix.

 

[panacea_amc]

hey dear enlightened people here,
God and science are all the same thing...

 

[confused]

I also belive in science....but again science didnt satisfy me totally...It could not explaing beyond vibgyor the seven colors that makes images in our eyes

dude what do u mean it couldnt explain???
did u never study physics/chemistry in high school???

Science is my god. but luck has a huge role to play in life.

 

[geek_rocker]

The arguments you are giving here reflects how much do you know about the topic.
Judging be your remarks, i can say that u are an ignorant person who do not know about history and culture of india.

U dont even know when Dayanand Saraswati born as you have written it around 2000 yrs ago? He was born on February 12 in 1824

If you think that what Dayanand Saraswati had done is just foundation of arya samaj, then follow the link
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayanand_Saraswati

This is actually not ur fault. Giving arguments against anyone believe system hurts them.

Well, I have not commented on ur linguistic skills. I just said that you dont know sanskrit and i was not defending myself but Dayanand Saraswati.
I dont know sanskrit too so chill.

I too dont belive in sun pulled by seven chariots or rahu/ketu phenomena.
But I belive in vedas and belive me this things are not there in vedas again acc. to "satyarth parkash". This things are developed by some greedy brahmans to make money out of people.

I urge all the people in this forum/thread to read that book. It has the power to satisfy all ur inner voice questions.

You low-minded fool, I was talking about the book written 2000 years ago, i.e. Vedas.

Stop talking like you know something. I'm agnostic so I am open to everything. Hard-line atheist are missing that it cannot be proven that God doesn't exist just like it's unproveable that God exists. I stand on a middle ground with my mind open about new concepts.

You don't say you don't believe in devas, i.e., Surya, Indra but you believe in Vedas. Are you crazy? There are mentions of them in Rig Veda. Go read it before you talk about them like you know something about it. You're just rehashing what some Arya samaji has taught to you. Without thinking it for yourself.

I don't care if you know Sanskrit or not, I know English and Hindi well and that's enough for me. I'm learning spainish btw.

The arguments you are giving here reflects how much do you know about the topic.
Judging be your remarks, i can say that u are an ignorant person who do not know about history and culture of india.
....

I want to answer one more thing to you. Why the hell do you think ancient people had not had scientific knowledge.
This is a natural law, one who have a begning must have an end and civilisations too come under this law. Older civilisation were too very advanced because they have seen more than 5ooo yrs of prosperity. Our civiliastion is just 2000 yrs old with many important development have been made in recent 100 yrs.
Dont think people at that time were fools. Sceintific phenomena were there at that time to be discovered.
I hope I have clear myself, but if you have any doubt, then throw them at me.
...

I am talking about vedic civislisation which stays for 5000 yrs.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the oldest Indian civilization was the Harappan/ Indus Valley Civilization which was not Vedic at all. Our ancestors weren't stupid, yes, but we now know much more than they ever knew.

Aryans came much later to india.
PWNED.

Also, you are not understanding what Naveen_reloaded is saying, LEARN ENGLISH.

 

[panacea_amc]

hey dear enlightened people here,
God and science are all the same thing...

 

[geek_rocker]

hey dear enlightened people here,
God and science are all the same thing...

Dear trying-to-sound-intellctual,
STFU

 

[confused]

^ ok.

nyaaaah

 

[micro_vishal]

hey dear enlightened people here,
God and science are all the same thing...

That true, Science and God go hand by hand, not opposite to each other.
God created science(laws), how can he oppose it

 

[confused]

That true, Science and God go hand by hand, not opposite to each other.
God created science(laws), how can he oppose it

ok

 

[micro_vishal]

You low-minded fool, I was talking about the book written 2000 years ago, i.e. Vedas.

You didn't mention it. Please mention carefully, what u are talking about. That is a sign of retarded person.

Stop talking like you know something. I'm agnostic so I am open to everything. Hard-line atheist are missing that it cannot be proven that God doesn't exist just like it's unproveable that God exists. I stand on a middle ground with my mind open about new concepts.

Thats good if you open to new concepts, but what are u doing in a debate if u cant take a stance. Yes I can't prove God existance to you neither can science. I am just telling you my belive for the sake of debate and when you comment on it, then i have to answer.

You don't say you don't believe in devas, i.e., Surya, Indra but you believe in Vedas. Are you crazy? There are mentions of them in Rig Veda. Go read it before you talk about them like you know something about it. You're just rehashing what some Arya samaji has taught to you. Without thinking it for yourself.

WTF, I dont belive in sun pulled by horses. I never say that i dont belive in surya(Sun) or Indra(Electricity).
Devas have different meaning in vedas. There is a difference between God and devas
Here is a direct extract from Satyarth prakash on this topic.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. What is meant by the mention of various devatas (Gods) in the Vedas then?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A.~Whatsoever or whosoever possesses useful and brilliant qualities is called a devata, as the earth for instance; but it is nowhere said that it is God or is the object of our adoration. Even in the above mantra it is said that He, who is the sustainer of all devatas, is the adorable God, and is worthy of of being sought after, They are greatly mistaken who take the word "devata" to mean God. [/FONT]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the oldest Indian civilization was the Harappan/ Indus Valley Civilization which was not Vedic at all. Our ancestors weren't stupid, yes, but we now know much more than they ever knew.

Aryans came much later to india.
PWNED.

This is actually very controversial topic in itself. You are talking of facts declared true by some british scientists like Max Muller. They had their own agenda for saying that. If you want to learn about this click on link:
*www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vedic-upanisads/aryan-invasion.html
*www.mantra.com/newsplus/aitmyth.html

Also, you are not understanding what Naveen_reloaded is saying, LEARN ENGLISH.

Dont worry about my english skills btw.
I can see that both of you have nothing logical to say, so do some homework first and then come back.

 

[confused]

Dont worry about my english skills btw.
I can see that both of you have nothing logical to say, so do some homework first and then come back.

ok.

 

[micro_vishal]

Direct link to "Satyarth Prakash", if anyone interested
*www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/satyarth_prakash_eng.htm

"They are atheists and of weak intellect, ad continually remain sunk in the depths of misery and pain who do not believe in, know, and commune with, Him who is Resplendent, All-glorious, All-Holy, All-knowledge, sustainer of the sun, the earth and other planets, Who pervades all like ether, is the Lord of all and is above all devatas. It is by the knowledge and contemplation of God alone that all men attain true happiness." RIG VEDA: I, 164, 39.


No need for me to discuss it further.

 

[amitash]

Hard-line atheist are missing that it cannot be proven that God doesn't exist just like it's unproveable that God exists. I stand on a middle ground with my mind open about new concepts.

Again, thats poor logic....Just because something cannot be disproved doesnt mean its true....yes agreed that u cant prove god doesnt exist...but by that reasoning you cant disprove that superman exists....Its called a "theory"....in science, everything is a theory till its proven...eg: "theory of gravitation", "theory of evolution", "the big bang theory"....for theists, there are no theories...its blind superstitious belief that its true...eg: "God exists, accept it...if you dont blieve in him then hes gonna f***ing send u to hell"....Coming back to the point, theists are totally arrogant to proofs and new discoveries, and atheists are totally the opposite...aka nothing is true untill proven....and "agnostics" are not ppl who are open minded, they are just the average joe who is unsure about everything.

"They are atheists and of weak intellect, ad continually remain sunk in the depths of misery and pain who do not believe in, know, and commune with, Him who is Resplendent, All-glorious, All-Holy, All-knowledge, sustainer of the sun, the earth and other planets, Who pervades all like ether, is the Lord of all and is above all devatas. It is by the knowledge and contemplation of God alone that all men attain true happiness." RIG VEDA: I, 164, 39.

Again, this is just written in some book...how can u blindly believe it??
In fact it shows how evil the vedas were....its indirectly telling u that if you dont believe in god, you will never be happy....im an atheist and im perfectly happy...that sentence was just something used to controll the minds of people and it succeeds even today, like in the case of micro_vishal

"good things and bad things happen to all people and its all based on probability....the number of bad things that happen to you wont change if you believe in god"

good people do good things and bad people do bad things. But for good people to do bad things, it takes religion

Thats good if you open to new concepts, but what are u doing in a debate if u cant take a stance. Yes I can't prove God existance to you neither can science. I am just telling you my belive for the sake of debate and when you comment on it, then i have to answer.

@micro_vishal: how come u are answering only to naveen_reloaded and not to my previous posts? Why are u just ignoring them? dont u have a suitable argument?