*** Science Or God? ***

[keshavasiva]

^^^^^Karnivore
^^ WIll you stop baby sitting and start talking something sensible... U still believe that evolution is true after there are many naked facts proving it false

Just think.... This earth .. so wonderful... so many kinds of entities...many hidden caves minerals .... seas oceans..
Now what to speak of other planets or universes or so forth...

Now tell me how far you believe that such an organized intelligent perfect creation has just come by chance(Big bang, evolution ... both come here).

After the bucket you use for bath has a creator .... How can you say that this whole manifestion so huge unending organized perfect creation is without creator and just came by some junk explosion which you don't even have clue and there is no basis of such though.. such a midnight dream and you just start thinking.. whether this MAY BE that MAY BE the cause of creation.

Karni if I had to, I would've but I warned him twice................

all members of this thread has contributed their point of view............specially u, legolas, mediator know what u r talking and clear about ur standing...........
b4 d visit of this n00b, this thread was having a healthy conversation........one fine day.....a newbie comes and starts abusing us..........he doesn't care any point/logic...........if runs out of logic starts abusing...........

thats d reason I was angry............

again he was abusing u........now, if u r fine with getting abused for no reason.......wat can I say...........

Everyone comes one fine day and may u haven't .!!!

I am telling you again that I just reused the words posted.

Yes for * like you; you won't understand the substance of my posts and atleast the last one .. .will ya??

Oh... god he is angry save.. me.... hah... who the cares if u r angry...
just try to prove your point or get the hell out... don't try to divert by judging others and giving your opinions as if you are a mahatma here.....!!!!!

@rit
Common. Let him have some fun. Don't report. Its fight club after all.

First congratulations. second, thanks for the complements . Its better to be a science fanatic that a doG-fanatic or woo-fanatic.

I guess I am not a zombie. Or am I....?

yes you are if you say that literally you don't have faith in anything in you life!
Don't you have faith in scientists when they put forward a theory and prove it using some logic which again someother will disprove and propose a new theory ... where has your faith gone then... Ok if you don't call it faith then see this...VVVVV

You read text books. rite.... for each line they rite do you go and ask the author whether he has written it or not !! Even he has written it .. do you experiment each and every thing in there testing it by logic and praticals???

You are a better person to put a situation where you have faith! Mother Relative(someof em) etc... Yourself????

 

[rhitwick]

^^^^^Karnivore
^^ WIll you stop baby sitting and start talking something sensible... U still believe that evolution is true after there are many naked facts proving it false

Just think.... This earth .. so wonderful... so many kinds of entities...many hidden caves minerals .... seas oceans..
Now what to speak of other planets or universes or so forth...

Now tell me how far you believe that such an organized intelligent perfect creation has just come by chance(Big bang, evolution ... both come here).

After the bucket you use for bath has a creator .... How can you say that this whole manifestion so huge unending organized perfect creation is without creator and just came by some junk explosion which you don't even have clue and there is no basis of such though.. such a midnight dream and you just start thinking.. whether this MAY BE that MAY BE the cause of creation.

C karni, I told u he's a n00b........he again proved that........
LOL......*s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/17large.png
don't get tempted on his replies............don't try to clarify him............his gray matter is not evolved(oh.....I used d word evolve he's not going to get that too) that much to understand these........

Everyone comes one fine day and may u haven't .!!!

I am telling you again that I just reused the words posted.

Yes for * like you; you won't understand the substance of my posts and atleast the last one .. .will ya??

Oh... god he is angry save.. me.... hah... who the cares if u r angry...
just try to prove your point or get the hell out... don't try to divert by judging others and giving your opinions as if you are a mahatma here.....!!!!!

Man.......u r hopeless.........
just do us a favor.........read every post in this 24 page thread........I think that will clear ur basics...............

 

[karmanya]

Explain A couple of things-
1.Why is it so hard for you guys to form perfectly coherent sentences?
2. @mediator- What is modern medicine ignoring? Yes we don't have all the answers- does that mean we will never reach there? thats ridiculous.
3. @Keshavasiva- If God did exist, he would be omnipresent and omnipotent correct? If he is so powerful and can create the universe, why doesn't he simplify the concept his so called message bearers bring to the common people? How hard would that be?
If a regular mortal can bring down a question based on string theory to something a class 10th student can understand, it tends to reason that a being that is all powerful will be able to bring the concept of his existence and his methods of working to something a regular person can understand.
also T159- Faith is a concept in all fields, blind faith is pretty much restricted to religious faith.

 

[keshavasiva]

C karni, I told u he's a n00b........he again proved that........
LOL......*s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/17large.png
don't get tempted on his replies............don't try to clarify him............his gray matter is not evolved(oh.....I used d word evolve he's not going to get that too) that much to understand these........


Man.......u r hopeless.........
just do us a favor.........read every post in this 24 page thread........I think that will clear ur basics...............

Dude... all you to say is that you can't answer what I pointed out or believe that everything you have came by chance even your PC may not be yourself .. no not..
*s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/17large.png
I have to say like this cuz your posts always show criticism and never ever a scientific point to reject or accept(u r here just to argue and i know that) what is said?? Can you show me one in your recent posts??

 

[rhitwick]

also T159- Faith is a concept in all fields, blind faith is pretty much restricted to religious faith.

agreed..............rightly said dude..........

 

[keshavasiva]

Explain A couple of things-
1.Why is it so hard for you guys to form perfectly coherent sentences?
2. @mediator- What is modern medicine ignoring? Yes we don't have all the answers- does that mean we will never reach there? thats ridiculous.
3. @Keshavasiva- If God did exist, he would be omnipresent and omnipotent correct? If he is so powerful and can create the universe, why doesn't he simplify the concept his so called message bearers bring to the common people? How hard would that be?
If a regular mortal can bring down a question based on string theory to something a class 10th student can understand, it tends to reason that a being that is all powerful will be able to bring the concept of his existence and his methods of working to something a regular person can understand.
also T159- Faith is a concept in all fields, blind faith is pretty much restricted to religious faith.

If faith is not blind then what else is it?? not blind faith?? faith and blind faith are same!

And regarding messages of LOrd... It is available .. String theory is just a mortals creation of imagination and so can be understood by a mortal... Everybody gets an opportunity or a situation to choose whether to hear the message of god or not.. Why don't u read bible .. do u read?? not the tampered one but the real one said by Jesus!
Or y don't you read Bhagavad Gita (The message of Bhagavan) written by Message bearers and not anyone and everyone! It is available at a price cheaper than any damn inventions or the cost of them that scientists do.. lik string theory.

God doesn't force anyone .. everyone has freewill.. he can choose to do this or that! But it is left to him to choose God or Science(In this concept) and so this thread and debate. God did leave the literature here and it is up to us to take it and follow.

 

[Dragoon]

Everything is wrong man!!! JUST THINK about it.....

1. Someone found God and called him the creator and started worshipping him.
2. A hell load of fools followed him/her and became his disciples.
3. Thus God was created.

This is how people are..........THIS IS TOTALLY ABSURD!!!
And just think what a waste of time it is..........

*i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/43large.png

 

[keshavasiva]

2. @mediator- What is modern medicine ignoring? Yes we don't have all the answers- does that mean we will never reach there? thats ridiculous.

Hey.... ain't that blind faith ... ??
Are you sure? You say yes... and thats wid no basis... You can't say anything for sure .. are you a fortune teller..???

See in AI they digest the previous acts and then do some prediction rite...
And that is prediction ... and it goes .. that no history of perfection for things related to this context!!!

Everything is wrong man!!! JUST THINK about it.....

1. Someone found God and called him the creator and started worshipping him.
2. A hell load of fools followed him/her and became his disciples.
3. Thus God was created.

This is how people are..........THIS IS TOTALLY ABSURD!!!
And just think what a waste of time it is..........

*i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/43large.png

Aha! God is not created.... If he is then he is not God!!! Get ur basics correct!

What a story makeup .. thats just the imagination of your brain! who cares...
Plz live in your imaginative world..

 

[karnivore]

@rhit,
I can now see what u saw a lot earlier. I was thinking, that everybody has a right to speak his mind, even if it means nonsense. Now, I am not sure, I feel that way.

@keshavasiva
Although it will fall on deaf ears, lets give it a last shot.

Faith in science : Science has proved itself a bazillion times. Otherwise, Instead of debating like this,in the cozy comfort of our homes or office, we would have been roaming in the wild, in a wee bit lioncloth and clubbing each other to death for food and women. This whole civilization is a gift of science. From the knowledge of how to grow crops, to blasting off rockets into the space, and everything in between, is a result of relentless quest for knowledge, by man. That quest is what science is all about. Having faith in science means having faith in this method of learning. Considering the gulf of difference between our knowledge, 2000 years ago and today, it is safe to bet, as @karmanya has quite rightly done, that whatever is unknown today, will be known tomorrow, whatever is speculation today, will be theory tomorrow, whatever is theory today, will be fact tomorrow. This faith, is based on the history of science and the evolution of our knowledge.

Faith in people/things : It is again based on personal or cumulative experience, interaction and understanding of persons or things. When I am typing a letter, I know, that if I hit the key "A" on my key board, it is more than likely that the shape "A" will appear on screen. That faith is based on experience. It has happened before and so it will happen again, untill of course, the key or my computer, is damaged. Similarly when u have faith in people, u have it on the basis of ur past experience with that person and of course with interaction. Your knowledge of the persons ability to do certain things, will also help u to have faith in that person. For example, if your plumbing is broken, u would go to a plumber not an ironsmith. Because, u would expect a plumber to know a lot more about plumbing than an ironsmith.

Faith in writers : It is usually based on their professional qualifications, their achievements and how much they are considered worthy of their words by their peers. Your own understanding of the subject and logic would go a long way as well. Stephen Hawkins made many predictions in the 'Brief History of Times', many of which would probably never come true. Does that mean he can't be trusted anymore. Einstein had spent the last 30 or so years on gibberish research. Does that mean Einstein is a kook. NO. Because, they got more things right, than they got wrong. So when these scientists, with proven track record say something, odds in their favour are automatically high.

Faith in doG/ supernatural etc : Well thats just about it. I believe it. Hence it is. That faith is a belief without a basis. And most of us here are against this faith. It is this faith that is blind, because it refuses to see that there is no basis that is logically tenable.

People like u make mockery of science. Fine. No problem. But do take your time out and think, if science is only about gigantic fantastical theories like Big Bang or it is also about teeny tiny things that surround us and make our lives comfortable. From that innocuous pen in your pocket, that ticking watch on your hand, that ipod plugged in your ears to that electricity that is running your AC, your PC, your microwave, your refrigerator, to that car that you drive or that plane you have to catch today - all science. The fact that we live in a civilized society, is proof, that we got at least something right.

Please tell why modern medicine is ignoring too many things?

IGNORING...? *sigh* no wonder.

 

[karmanya]

@keshav- Theres a little thing called extrapolation. Hundreds of years ago, people had no idea why sailors would get bleeding gums, exhaustion and would suddenly drop dead. Now we know it was because of scurvy.Extrapolating from the fact that science usually finds out why stuff happens, I think it's pretty safe to say that we will reach a point when we know a lot of stuff that we don't know today.

And regarding messages of LOrd... It is available .. String theory is just a mortals creation of imagination and so can be understood by a mortal... Everybody gets an opportunity or a situation to choose whether to hear the message of god or not.. Why don't u read bible .. do u read?? not the tampered one but the real one said by Jesus!
Or y don't you read Bhagavad Gita (The message of Bhagavan) written by Message bearers and not anyone and everyone! It is available at a price cheaper than any damn inventions or the cost of them that scientists do.. lik string theory

Even ignoring your thinly veiled attempt to question my literacy, there are quite a few things wrong with this post.
Firstly, have you even read the bible? Both, the Old Testament and the New Testament, have very little about what Jesus said. The Old Testament, has very little to do about Jesus(If at all) and is more about Judaism. The New Testament, which is a collection of stories not only about Jesus's life and teachings but the molding of sectarianism inside Judaism. Incidentally, both books have been written by people. Infact since the Da-Vinci Code, Pretty much everyone knows about Constantine and how he decided to re-write the rough draft of the New Testament to make Jesus "God's Son".
The Bhagavad Gita is not "the message of Bhagvan", but a transcription of the speech that Krishna gave Arjun, justifying the war against the Kauravas, at Kurukshetra.
Infact, if you read the Vedas, which pre-date the Bhagavad Gita, it strictly says that there are no omnipotent, omnipresent beings called Gods. Images like Krishna,Vishnu and a whole host of others, are exactly that-images. They were meant to make the idea of your subconscious being God, easier to understand.
So frankly speaking, I would recommend that you do your research and actually read, before accusing others of being unable to.

 

[karnivore]

While we were sleeping, Earth came close to being roasted. Do watch the quicktime animation, just about 2 MB.

 

[roshan1236a]

Can anyone tell me how GOD was born????

 

[karnivore]

doG's dad got drunk and took a <you know who> to a hotel. 9 months later doG was born.

 

[Dragoon]

That's a stupid story..... Who do you think is god's dad then???

 

[karnivore]

^^ Thats the whole point of the "stupid story". Infinite regression.

 

[nvidia]

That LHC is a holy ****... just another waste of money.! May be wasting money in a fashionable scientific fuc*** way.

You just don't understand the importance of this experiment. Understanding the Universe is important for the survival of the Human Race. The Earth won't last forever. You think 'God' is going to save us all? We have to save ourselves and such experiments are absolutely necessary for the Understanding of the world.

So what do you suggest to understand the Universe without spending money..?
Sit under a tree and meditate?

And listen, science can only strive to become perfect and can never become.. Talk the

Thats the complexity of the subject.

 

[Dragoon]

You just don't understand the importance of this experiment. Understanding the Universe is important for the survival of the Human Race. The Earth won't last forever. You think 'God' is going to save us all? We have to save ourselves and such experiments are absolutely necessary for the Understanding of the world.

So what do you suggest to understand the Universe without spending money..?
Sit under a tree and meditate?

Thats the complexity of the subject.

I totally agree with you.

Remember, "The Fittest Survive*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif, while The Others Perish*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif"

 

[mediator]

2. @mediator- What is modern medicine ignoring? Yes we don't have all the answers- does that mean we will never reach there? thats ridiculous.

Reading 5 posts +/- from post #617 wud be a nice idea for getting some clue on modern medicine! Although refreshing urself completely on this thread wud be a superb idea. Just like @t159 said, humans also have tendency to start things from t=0.

First the answer - NO. Second, read slowly and if necessary spell it out as well
IT IS CREATING THE PHYSICS THAT EXISTED AFTER BIG BANG. Clue "PHYSICS". If u still don't get it then first try have a sense of magnitude and proportion, then consult a MOOOeopathETIC quack.

Bet, you still don't have a clue of what I am saying.

So FINALLY we hear the answer that universe didn't have an external energy or hand as in LHC model. U can save the rest of ur rants. How? CLUE : IMPROVE UR COMPREHENSION.

Pope Randi ? Hey thats catchy. But... OHO....then how r the animals and plants (another laugh attack) individualised.

Leave the plants n animals and first understand bt humans alone if u can get that in that hollow shell of urs. I bet 1 $million if u can ever understand that.

Well 3rd standard is still better than illiteracy.

Good point for a science fanboi who plays a funny apologist for theories n treats em as facts.

1. YES
2. YES
3. YES

Now prove.

But u said its only in ur courtyard! How sad, that it isn't much of a worldwide activity or is it that ur supreme saviour Lord James Randi came. Are u sure its reproducable, data consistent?

All questions have been answered. If u don't like those answers, well, its upto u.

Thats where one gets a good laugh to rejuvenate his mood. ALL QUESTIONS ANSWERED n ur utopia becomes perfect. Its not new for me to see materialists chicken out n refraining to answer the questions I ask & at the end they hallucinate that they answered all! Psychedelic drugs are surely amazing....

Am sure they teach 2 + 2 = 4, other than Big Bang or other matters of astrophysics or astronomy. One would get the feeling that BB is the only theory that is taught in school.

Homeopathy can't kill, because distilled water can't. Ayurveda can't kill, because it only works on common ailment and not any complicated ones.

Ah, the expert on Ayurveda spoke! You seem to be out of words to be imagining "all questions answered" & now this.
You still didn't tell if u'll get ur friend suffering from AIDS treated with Modern Medicine or Ayurveda??

I knew it. I knew it. You are a creationist. So much for your ATHEISM. So u are a lair as well.

As with evolution. First learn the basics. Then try to criticize. Just to get u started evolution is not about future, it is about present. Evolution is not about wishes, it is about survival. Evolution is not about what is BEST. It is about what is NEEDED to survive.

Amazing! Hats off to u. If u question materialists, u automatically become creationist invoking the wrath of materialists who wish to yawn n laugh than to answer genuinely. Most of ur logics cannot make it without a heavy flaw, can they? Just spoon feed the funny materialist that something has been said by scientific world and aha, end of reasoning!

By ur logic in the bold, guess I wasn't wrong when u abused the creationists/theists & labelled them as morons. Regarding evolution, it seems like ur chinese made clock, the boundary of ur upper shell is also getting rusty.
As about evolution, it seems u really have nothing else to say save whining bt what is already known or theorised! So now, didn't the first unicellular organism evolved? What r we talking about after looking at the fossils? Its a good time to evolve some material in the hollow upper shpere of urs than being lurking in the dark.

Why one eye and not 2 eyes ? Read "The Blind Watchmaker". When were the limbs formed ? Were u sleeping when I was talking about Tiktaalik. Why don't humans fly ? Because flight was not necessary for our survival. Why small animals after big dinos ? Sorry, can't say, because I don't know. Haven't read much about it.

Again an instance of u to be referring to another book? It seems u don't like to rationlize anyhow, save reading books and getting ur thoughts affected without much thinking! And when u try to rationalise, alas we get flaws!

Besides, who are u to decide whats necessary for our survival? All of us, afterall, are vulnerable to mosquitos, deadly virii, pollution, natural disasters, terrorism etc. just like small organism are vulnerable to bigger ones, herbivores to carnivores, and humans being from bacteria, virii near the earth n also the materialists who fail to logic properly leading to an eminent threat to humanity! And so why didn't rats or the animanls started flying?

I understand the part for "can't say" for dinos. No spoon feeding from scientists there, eh?

String theory = BUNKUM (LHC in a very different way will give insight into it - if the theory is at all tenable or not)
Quantum Physics = Amazing theory, a theory of bizarre, but incomplete.
Parallel Univers = Serial Universe is more LOGICAL, and in that I differ from Dawkins.

Thank you very much, the 'theory of bizarre' is where science heading n discussing these days.

 

[kalpik]

Ok, i know this is fight club, but please maintain decorum. This is a warning to all involved.

My take on the topic: I belive in science and not god. I wouldnt really care to explain why, as many have tried to in this 24 page topic, but it doesnt really matter to anyone

 

[karnivore]

Amazing! Hats off to u. If u question materialists, u automatically become creationist invoking the wrath of materialists who wish to yawn n laugh than to answer genuinely. Most of ur logics cannot make it without a heavy flaw, can they? Just spoon feed the funny materialist that something has been said by scientific world and aha, end of reasoning!

No, one does not become a creationist by questioning materialists. One becomes a creationist, by subscribing to a creationist point of view, and thats what u have done, not once, but twice. But i understand ur problem. There is no proper scientific criticism against EVOLUTION, per se. So ur frantic googling is always landing u on creationist sites. And since u have never ever read on evolution, u can't differentiate a true scientific criticism from a creationist one. Hence all the bungling. But keep trying. Don't give up so easy. I am having too much fun.

Besides, who are u to decide whats necessary for our survival? All of us, afterall, are vulnerable to mosquitos, deadly virii, pollution, natural disasters, terrorism etc. just like small organism are vulnerable to bigger ones, herbivores to carnivores, and humans being from bacteria, virii near the earth n also the materialists who fail to logic properly leading to an eminent threat to humanity! And so why didn't rats or the animanls started flying?

*i180.photobucket.com/albums/x31/trash609/doglaugh.gif

That, my dear friend, is a clincher. First take lessons in evolution, then turn a few pages of "Your Inner Fish". (There u go, recommended a book). No matter how much u choose NOT to learn, there is still a chance in a trillion that u may just learn something worthwhile.

Leave the plants n animals and first understand bt humans alone if u can get that in that hollow shell of urs. I bet 1 $million if u can ever understand that.

OHO...so i am now to leave animals and plants. I get it, when it is convenient, grab hold of them, and when it is not, leave them.

By your own admission, you do not understand homeopathy. So i guess, its you who needs to take a lesson first. When u r done come back to papa. Papa's got candy for u.

And i bet 10 bucks that neither do u have $ 1 million to bet, nor have u seen any.

Thats where one gets a good laugh to rejuvenate his mood. ALL QUESTIONS ANSWERED n ur utopia becomes perfect. Its not new for me to see materialists chicken out n refraining to answer the questions I ask & at the end they hallucinate that they answered all! Psychedelic drugs are surely amazing....

Yup...keep saying that to yourself.

Seriously though, u r making Bozo the clown look like a bore. Now, that is sheer talent.