PC Buying Guide - March 2011

[vickybat]

@ jaskanwar

People sticking with a single monitor should be better of with a fast single gpu setup. In real world scenarios, you won't find a difference between gtx 570 and 6850cf in a single monitor but add eyefinity then diff. gets noticeable.

So i suggest a multi monitor setup for cf or sli rigs either using eyefinity or nvidia surround depending on the cards people use.

What say?

 

[mitraark]

In Sub 50k Gaming , you mentioned GTX 460 768 MB , is that better than ATI 6850 ?

ALso ,in sub 20k , you added FSP Saga PSU , i feel the PSU that comes along with Zebronics Bijli would have been enough for an entry level Dual COre setup..

 

[Jaskanwar Singh]

vickybat from where did you read that now buddy?

mitraark, i will change it to 6850. Its always good to have a better psu than those locals. zeb bijli with psu costs around 2k..

guys i am in a big dilemma of which ups to suggest with the rigs? can someone list out what type of rigs will need how much VA UPS and which models accordingly? or should i remove them?

 

[vickybat]

@ jaskanwar

Its simple. When you add lets say 3 monitors, the pixels around horizontal width increases considerably. So lets say playing at 1920x1080 , now it becomes 5760x1080 thus taking total pixel count very high.

So sli or cf helps in these scenarios better than a single gpu.

Check this

Jas sparkle has launched its Gtx570 based cards in india. Prices start from 21.9k. Available through abacus peripherals.

Refer this

 

[Jaskanwar Singh]

vicky i know CF will help in 3 monitor setup but in a single monitor it will increase the frame rates also like in the reviews you see..moreover sometimes its buyers choice of CF or SLI. so to make the guide more vast i also added this option..

now somebody please tell on UPS? refer my previous post..

 

[vickybat]

Yes ofcourse dual or more gpu setup will churn more fps but from practiclity point of view, the difference won't be noticeable. Say u use a fast card like gtx 570 and cf two 6850's. On full hd on a single monitor the diff. betwwen the two won't be visible to naked eye because they are capable of churning more fps.

But when resolution increases with multimonitor setup, the single card takes a performance hit so in this scenario , sli or cf of two or more able cards excel.
Even value doesn't matter here cause a person spending or two or more large displays can very well sli two 570's or cf two 6870's or maybe 3 6870's. So the guide has to be revised for wide variety of users.

Now about ups, you can add apc and numeric.

Apc 600va -1.8k
Apc 650va- 2.6k
apc 1.1kva- 4.5k(confirm this please)
numeric 1kva- 3.7k( confirm this please)
I know this much. Let someone else throw some light in high end models and prices.

 

[Jaskanwar Singh]

buddy i said someone's choice also matters..i agree the diff wont be noticeable much though..and check all the rigs now please and tell me so that i can put these up atleast.

some high end like 1500VA please..? and which do you suggest for the no budget rig?..

P.S. my cabby needs serious cleaning now..!

in Sub 50k (Mid range gaming) the total is increasing budget..so shall i change 6850 to GTX460 768MB @ 10k.

 

[The Sorcerer]

Remember one (more) thing. x58 comes with 36 PCIE lanes. USB 3 and SATA 3 uses 6 of those lanes. If you're going CF+ utilisiing usb 3.0 and sata 3, x58 is the way to go and it there will not be a bottleneck because of lanes being used.

 

[Ishu Gupta]

^
AFAIK the difference in lanes only becomes noticable in triple card setups. Its doesn't has any impact on dual sli/cf except in benchmarks.

 

[Cilus]

Jas, the AMD option for Sub 85K without Crossfire option, my suggestion is change the motherboard from something 890FX chipset based to 890GX chipset based. The main difference is 890FX supports full X32 (Crosfire in X16xX16 mode) bandwidth for Crossfire whereas 890GX offers X8 crossfire mode. So if you are not planning for Crossfire, 890GX is sufficient.
My choice will be Asrock 890GX-EXTREME3 @7.2K or MSI 890GXM-G65 @7.5K. Also very good for dedicated physx card setup.

 

[Ishu Gupta]

^
Looks like you didn't read all the discussion b/w me, Jas, Nbaztec and Sorcy.

MSI G65 will go in flames with 125W TDP CPU.

 

[The Sorcerer]

^
AFAIK the difference in lanes only becomes noticable in triple card setups.

Sort of. Depending on the cards you're using (and if they are pushed to utilize that much stuff lanes got to offer) and the board comes with sad PCIE lane setup or not+ if the board comes with the support and if you use sata 3 and usb3.

That's why most x58 boards with cf/sli+ usb 3.0 and sata 3 support (I think but not sure- maybe x58 sabertooth has, but for sure the x58a UD5 has it) have mechanical switch on the PCIE lanes to enable/disable if the slots are occupied/vacant so that this way all the 32 pcie lanes will be used nicely, hence chances of any major/minor bottleneck/stuttering is not present- besides what are the chances that if you max out on cf/sli+ cards+ all usb 3.0 and sata3 connectors and end up using the full potential of those 32 lanes? hmm??

If there are such people, obviously they are overclockers and not just a power user. Hence boards like UD9.
UD9 comes with those NF chips. If you know how those SB and chips work, you will also know why the SB sink is so massive. That board is in a league of its own no matter if other boards are deemed "more overclockable".

 

[Cilus]

Ishu , Ya, I do have read the post regarding the power phase design. That's why I suggested two of them. Check the Asrok one, it is having V8+2 power designing.
And Sorcerer, even if you are going for Crossfire (As SLI is not possible in AMD chipset), the performance difference between X8-X8 mode and X16-X16 mode are actually less than 10%. The reason is very simple, there is nothing out there are for now and will not come out near future which can use full bandwidth of X32 lane and there will be CPU bottleneck before reaching that required performance. So paying extra 3 to 4K is simply not justified.

 

[The Sorcerer]

The reason is very simple......

besides what are the chances that if you max out on cf/sli+ cards+ all usb 3.0 and sata3 connectors and end up using the full potential of those 32 lanes? hmm??

Way ahead of you dude . Infact Asingh PMed me to which I gave him a reply way before I posted that point here. I know that reason since p45/x48 days. If you think about it, AGP was ditched prematurely IMO.

 

[Cilus]

Way ahead of you dude

Did not get you properly. However regarding your using every thing simultaneously, don't you think using CF+all the USB port at a time is a very rare scenario?
And I really wanna know about the power phase design in detail as I'm going for a new one based on AMS 890GX. Could you please post some links for articles regarding this.

 

[The Sorcerer]

Did not get you properly. However regarding your using every thing simultaneously, don't you think using CF+all the USB port at a time is a very rare scenario?

Hence I said "What are the chances if....". Even if one does, 1 board has the solution but its primarily made for serious and full-blown ln2 overclocking.

And I really wanna know about the power phase design in detail as I'm going for a new one based on AMS 890GX. Could you please post some links for articles regarding this.

There are some info that is never shared online and there are some info that can't be brought down to a guide- both unfortunate cases.

There was a time you can find out which phase and its resistance is used on the board as the basic spec was given on the phase itself, now most of the manufacturers remove it- or give a vague spec.
----
I am not saying this ASROCK is bad. There were handful (all of them being recent) boards that sort of gave an impression despite minor issues. When I asked one of the Asus India guys via FB, their office (or any that they are aware of) does not handles ASROCK in India (Asustek owns Asus and ASROCK- for those who didn't know) so they are imported by a dealer/distributor. Make sure they can do the needful and take care of RMA, if such cases happen in the future.

 

[asingh]

Way ahead of you dude . Infact Asingh PMed me to which I gave him a reply way before I posted that point here. I know that reason since p45/x48 days. If you think about it, AGP was ditched prematurely IMO.

Here is the transcript of what transpired. I had doubts about the 36 lanes.

I sent the following questions:

Read your post on PCIe lanes for the X58. Am somewhat confused. If it has 36 lanes out of which 32 are reserved for x16 x16, we are left with just 4. Now we need to connect to the DMI and then for USB 3 / Sata 3. How does it work out. How can we have 6 for else..?

Read a bit on Wikipedia..and they suggest 40 lanes...

32: GPU connect
4: DMI (is USB 3 / Sata 3 bundled via here..?)
4: ???? (are these the ones for USB 3 / Sata 3).

These are the boards with no Nf200 implementation.

To which I got this superb answer:

LOL!!
Did wikipedia say that there were 3 rev versions on x58 chipset itself? .
Check xs, overclock, bit-tech and such reliable sites mate, it uses upto 36 pcie lanes- not 40. Even intel's product brief says it too:
*www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/prod...duct-brief.pdf

Moral of the story: wikipedia is not always reliable source of information.
That corrects the 40 PCIE lane. Clear till here? Moving on.

Tell me one thing, what are chances of all USB 3.0+ Sata 3.0+ all slots being occupied at the same time? Even if they are, do you really think all of those usb/storage devices and the pcie cards will use the maximum (and theoratical IMO)throughput they claim they take?

So they play a balancing game with 36 lanes. x58 gives that flexibility of 36 lanes. How it balances in between is something depends on the board that you're buying (and justify one of the reasons why boards cost between 13-21k...or why one should buy the new one depending if its a good enough board) depends largely on how the board is made to balance between those lanes.

3/SATA 3 uses upto 6 lanes (Most x58 boards we are familiar with uses 2x usb 3.0, and maybe 6 sata3 slots max depending on the board) if you're maxing it out. If you know how UD5 works, you'll understand it perfectly. She is a beauty waiting to be spanked.

If you see in the slots, there are 4 "switches" imprinted on the PCB and 4 slots. Each switch enables/disables the pcie if they are occupied/vacant. Accordingly she distributes the pcie lanes- or keeps those lanes on idle if she doesn't need them.

Way to go...!

 

[vickybat]

@ jas

For sub 35k rig, change the intel option to i3 540 instead of 530.

For sub 20k rig i think clarkdale based pentium procesors should be suggested in lieu of older wolfdales. Pentium g6950 shuould be good if priced right.

 

[Jaskanwar Singh]

^^540 will increase budget by 500 bucks. you can oc the 2.93 of 530 to 3.06 of 540..

Pentium g6950 costs 4.8k..Intel Pentium G6950 ? Lynx - The Audio , Electronics And Computer Online Store In India..

@cilus..
ok i will change to Gigabyte GA 890GPA UD3H @ 8k

In the sub 50k gaming i changed 6850 to GTX460 768MB to bring totals to 50k!!

 

[aby geek]

i think workstation configs should not be without dual display, and how much do we know about the ttop of the line ws graphic cards? i think we should not leave them out,a no budget ws can house them.

*techshop.in/store/combo-deals-buy-online-india-c-218.html

jasji can this be considered for value buyers?