PC Buying Guide - July 2011

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tkin

Back to school!!
^^ What are you trying to say? First of all it does not justify anything about your misleading info posting that AMD does not support 3D gaming. It is actually strengthening each and every point I've said.
It uses the same series of Asus monitor I've suggested and the review is pretty good about it.
2ndly it also specified that frame rate drop in 3D for the 3D optimized games are just 30% in case of single 480 and just 11% in case of SLI.

Here is the quote from the review itself:


So in case of a GTX 580, the loss will be lesser than 30% due to his higher processing power.

Again and again you are just posting garbage data, irrelevant of anything. I think we need to design a garbage collector for DIGIT forum. Buddy, at least read what you are posting. For processing the 2 images there is a overhead but it does not drop the performance by 50% or half. It is like 1/3 or 1/4 th at maximum. Did I say that it is free of performance hit in any of my post? If I said then please point me. All I said is the performance hit will not be such will will reduce the performance to 50% of the original and your review is basically proving every bit of my word.

You need to understand a bit more.
First of all stop selective quoting stuff from articles. AVP and LP2 showed less performance in sli 3d than in single gpu 3d, lost planet had 40% performance drop in sli, mafia 2 was the exception.
So read the article again, this time with glasses(2d) on.

Second, yes, about that optimization stuff, that review said it depends on games, so mafia 2 may scale 11%, but most other games won't, specially games that do not have optimizations. It does not depend on gpus, but on the games. 40% hit looks pretty significant to me. And a GTX480 is a very fast config, if it gets hit by 40-50% 580 will hit harder.

Third, yes you said it would not be 50%, maybe you meant 40%, that does not matter, anything over 20% is a significant hit.

Fourth, oh, do show us a single article with amd HD3d gaming review, I can show you dozens of nvidia 3d vision review, but lets see that amd hd3d gaming review. If its supported there is bound to be lot of articles on that.

Did you know this?
There's one more limitation to bear in mind. Because AMD utilizes the HDMI 1.4a specification, which boasts a maximum TMDS throughput of 10.2 Gb/s, you can either game in stereo at 720p maxing out at 60 frames per second per eye, or you can game at 1080p with up to 24 frames per second per eye. That's actually pretty severe, considering we've been playing around with 5760x1080 using 3D Vision Surround and dual-link DVI connectors (each display running at 1920x1080). AMD says it'll transcend the shackles of HDMI 1.4a next year sometime when monitor vendors begin incorporating DisplayPort 1.2. A peak effective bandwidth of 17.28 Gb/s is enough to enable 1080p at 60 frames per eye.
Stereoscopic 3D With AMD’s HD3D : AMD Radeon HD 6870 And 6850: Is Barts A Step Forward?

Enjoy 3d at 24FPS per eye(i.e 24 FPS).

Fifth, garbage collector? How low can you get? Foul mouthing won't win any debates, if you keep the hostility up I will just simply ignore you. Stop the childish rants.

Does GTA4 even supports stereoscopic 3d? Afaik, it doesn't have native support. And ofcourse titles not having native support will look bad in 3d mode.



Parallex barrier has a lot of shortcomings. For instance, the viewer has to position himself/herself in a specific point to view correct depth. Since a parallex barrier has a number of slits to allow light to pass at different angles, the position of the eyes has to be such that two images are foccussed simultaneously in order to view depth.

Another shortcoming is that the horizontal pixel count is reduced by one half.
Its kind of a cheap implementation of 3d it hardly will be mainstream.

Nintendo 3ds is a great example of a having a display with a parralex barrier enabling glass free 3d.

Real glass free 3d has to be a lenticular display. Here , instead of a barrier having a no. of slits, it has a refractive layer on top of the panel. This method relies on a display coated with a lenticular film. Lenticules are tiny lenses on the base side of a special film. The screen displays two sets of the same image. The lenses direct the light from the images to your eyes each eye sees only one image. Your brain puts the images together and you interpret it as a three-dimensional image.

This technology requires content providers to create special images for the effect to work. They must interlace the two sets of images together. If you were to try and view the video feed on a normal screen, you would see a blurry double image.

Here's a comparison between parralex barrier and lenticular method.

*img31.imageshack.us/img31/7618/220pxparallaxbarriervsl.png

You can clearly see that that the lenticular display has a wide source coming to each eye than the parralex method.This allows the user to switch positions more freely than the parralex based display.

But lenticular displays are far expensive to make and will take sometime to get mainstream. So lenticular displays are the future cause they also provide more sense of depth than their parralex counterparts.
Looks pretty exciting, but anyway I heard, nintendo's 3d implementation hurts the eye a lot(which could very well be a myth), anyone had first hand experience with that?
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
^^ Hey tkin buddy , i don't understand one thing. If 480 gets hit by 40%, how can 580 get hit by more ? Isn't 580 faster than 480?

Currently all 3d vision enabled games are optimised for stereoscopic 3d. lp2 is old and avp does not have native 3d support. So there will be a hit.

Check out crysis 2 as it supports native 3d or you can even check batman arkham asylum. They are native 3d titles and almost all upcoming aaa titles will support 3d. So optimisations in software level ( ingame) will lead to lesser hits. No worries on that front mate.

Btw here's a small article on amd hd3d ingame capabilities by tomshardware. They visited amd's test centre and were kind of impressed.

Looks pretty exciting, but anyway I heard, nintendo's 3d implementation hurts the eye a lot(which could very well be a myth), anyone had first hand experience with that?

Yup it hurts a bit but is manageable. Nothing serious. Glass free 3d also has shortcomings. Never experienced a 3ds but read numerous articles on its working.

Resident evil revelations is a good title supporting 3d on 3ds.
 
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tkin

Back to school!!
^^ Hey tkin buddy , i don't understand one thing. If 480 gets hit by 40%, how can 580 get hit by more ? Isn't 580 faster than 480?

Currently all 3d vision enabled games are optimised for stereoscopic 3d. lp2 is old and avp does not have native 3d support. So there will be a hit.

Check out crysis 2 as it supports native 3d or you can even check batman arkham asylum. They are native 3d titles and almost all upcoming aaa titles will support 3d. So optimisations in software level ( ingame) will lead to lesser hits. No worries on that front mate.



Yup it hurts a bit but is manageable. Nothing serious. Glass free 3d also has shortcomings. Never experienced a 3ds but read numerous articles on its working.

Resident evil revelations is a good title supporting 3d on 3ds.
The 480 SLI gets hit by 40%, not the 480. Anyway enough about that, I hate it anyway, glasses are damn heavy, if the glasses become light like normal glasses I will buy it(along another 580). Also I have Myopia, so if I watch 3d without my glasses I get a massive headache, so I need some way to integrate 3d on my regular glasses, maybe clip on panels.

Some shops in kolkata have 3ds for sale, wish they would give demo(never asked though).
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
^^ I have the same problem as well. Maybe lenticular & parallex displays are the right ones for people like us having myopic eyesight (mine isn't that severe, its -0.25 for right eye and -0.5 dioptres for the left).

Ya shopping malls usually sell 3ds. They don't give demo of handheld gaming devices unlike their big console brothers.
 

tkin

Back to school!!
^^ I have the same problem as well. Maybe lenticular & parallex displays are the right ones for people like us having myopic eyesight (mine isn't that severe, its -0.25 for right eye and -0.5 dioptres for the left).

Ya shopping malls usually sell 3ds. They don't give demo of handheld gaming devices unlike their big console brothers.
Yeah, I can't focus on the screen without my glasses, -1.5 and -0.5 in right and left eye, maybe because we have different powers in two eyes we can't focus.
 

Cilus

laborare est orare
Tkin, as Vicky said, all the 3D optimized games are pretty well playable in a single GTX 580. The article you have posted is actually 10 months old when 3D was just getting started for mainstream. Take Crysis 2 or Batman Arkham asylum under consideration, you'll see a considerable performance improvement. Stop the vain attempt to mislead people by providing older articles. Give us some valid data point based on GTX 580 and some newer optimize games where games are unplayable or the hit is 50%.

And why trying to prove my analysis wrong about the FPS reproduction? You don't understand it, fine....In all the articles including your's posted one it is clearly mentioned that the performance hit is because of unoptimized software or games, not because of hardware.

And regarding AMD's HD3D, just eat your word.
Here is your post:
AMD HD3D is for Blueray 3d only, no games support 3d with amd cards like nvidia, amd does not have any active program for 3d like 3d vision, 3d gamers will need to stick with nvidia.

Where you have mentioned that AMD support 3D but not optimized at all. But check my post, I have stated in in the 1st place.

And regarding AMD's 3D support, I don't need to show you anything. You are just behaving like a kid who has a GTX 580 and thinks that everything else is crap. Time to grow up and increase your knowledge a bit. I guess every one in this forum knows about AMD's 3D support. The tomshardware review you've posted itself explaining AMd's 3D support in detail. The review of the Viewsonic monitor there is also testing of AMD 3D. I think Vicky's article is also a very good example. Now please don't say that actually you were trying to say that AMD's 3D was not optimized for gaming, instead of they don't support. Wait a bit before commenting about AMD's performance in 3D. They are very new in this ground and need some time to be matured like nVidia.
And one info, all the 3D monitors, supporting AMD HD3D, including the Viewsonic model, are having HDMI 1.4a connector, so your your 3D at 24 FPS thing is not valid any more. All the initial problems with AMD 3D is getting sorted now a days. Their third party vendor TriDef's driver is also getting optimized and has shown performance very close to nVidia's 3D vision. In current time, nVidia is a better option no doubt but in future I don't think that gamers need to stick with only nVidia 3D.
 
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topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
@ every member who are actively discussing 3D Gaming Rig here - enough discussion on IPS vs TN and 3D.

3D Gaming rig is here to stay - like it or not - we need to start something at some point and it's the starting point of the 3D Gaming rig - we won't drop it and personally I think it's a good step - if you don't prefer the 3D Gaming rig then move on - no need to argue on this anymore.

If you have to say something about the components / config used in 3D Gaming rigs post your suggestions to improve it.

Keep the discussion limited to 3D Gaming and it's components only and avoid personal insults at all cost - all of you have been warned.
 

tkin

Back to school!!
Oh, I remembered, one more thing, now for most configs you are suggesting FSP SAGA, its not available in kolkata, or most other cities, also smc sales them but do not give warranty, can you give an alternative below the main config, something in that price range.
 
OP
Jaskanwar Singh

Jaskanwar Singh

Aspiring Novelist
AMD HD3D is for Blueray 3d only, no games support 3d with amd cards like nvidia, amd does not have any active program for 3d like 3d vision, 3d gamers will need to stick with nvidia.

AMD HD3D Gaming

Oh, I remembered, one more thing, now for most configs you are suggesting FSP SAGA, its not available in kolkata, or most other cities, also smc sales them but do not give warranty, can you give an alternative below the main config, something in that price range.

theitwares, primeabgb also keeps them.

and this thread is for reference. if someone isnt able to find them he can start his thread and we can adjust the config for him. ;-)
 

Cilus

laborare est orare
We will try to build a AMD based 3D config once the specific Monitors from Viewsonic and Acer is available. The Viewsonic one is not that costly, in US market the price is around $500. So expect it to be around 20-25k range here.

By the way, as pointed out by any members, if 3D TVs are used as Display for 3D movie/Games, then @ 1080P the resolution will be around 24 FPS if HDMI 1.4a is used as connecting medium due to the bandwidth limitation of it.

Nvidia can also handle stereoscopic 3D on 3D TVs over HDMI 1.4a with the release of its 3DTV Play driver but it is only supported by newer cards with HDMI 1.4a standard support. But the worst part it Nvidia also suffers from the 24 FPS limitation in Full HD/1080P contents, games or movie. This problem is a general problem due to the limitation of HDMI 1.4a bandwidth, not specific to AMD or nVidia.

The current solution for it is using dual link DVI or DVI-D as the connector. If any TV/Display is having DVI-D connector, it will remove that 24 FPS problem but you can't transfer sound through DVI...a big problem in case of TVs.

However, newer 3D TVs will have Display port 1.2 standard with a maximum bandwidth of 17.28 Gb/s (10.2 Gbps is for HDMI 1.4a), sufficient for 60 FPS @ 1080P.
 
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vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Guys got an interesting article on 3d. Any buyer going for a 3d rig or planning to have one must read it.

Watching 3D: What's It Doing To Our Eyes and Brains?


Btw portal 2 now supports 3d vision. So games are starting to natively support 3d. So yes, our guide needs a 3d config and the current one is a stepping stone. In other words, its a great config to start with.
 
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Extreme Gamer

僕はガンダム!
Vendor
Tkin, as Vicky said, all the 3D optimized games are pretty well playable in a single GTX 580. The article you have posted is actually 10 months old when 3D was just getting started for mainstream. Take Crysis 2 or Batman Arkham asylum under consideration, you'll see a considerable performance improvement. Stop the vain attempt to mislead people by providing older articles. Give us some valid data point based on GTX 580 and some newer optimize games where games are unplayable or the hit is 50%.

I disagree. have you actually played Metro 2033 maxed out Analytical AA in 3D?

nvidia recommends lowering settings at 1080p in 3D to medium and Advanced DOF off.

It is such a GPU hog.

Most other 3D optimized games run well on a single 580 because they are not GPU intensive. (batman without physx is not that intensive either).


Vickybat it is true GTA4 is not a 3D title. my example was to show image bifurcation and not how bad 3D is implemented without optimization.

The article you linked to shows many if not most of the current possible problems in 3D.
It is very good reading.

3D is definitely here to stay, but one who builds a 3D setup should invest in at least a 570 SLI or single 590 setup if he wants his setup to max out almost all games for the next 3 years.

3D has a long way to go too. The setup Jas suggested is a very good option sub-110k, but increase it to 125k and get a 590/570 SLI setup and the performance will be MUCH better.

BTW is anybody excited for the Crysis 2 DX11 and hi res texture patch? It should be out any time soon now.
 

Sarath

iDota
any computer shop. Should start from 100bucks.
I got mine free with a web cam. Got another el cheapo free one.
 
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