'Nirbhaya' case convict interviewed in jail (in 2013)

[vkl]

Education of what kind is being referred to?Education of getting degrees or passing some grades don't get much moral values put into you.If that was the case US,UK,Sweden won't be topping the charts in rape rate.They have more so called "educated" people,counselors,more security,higher sex ratio,more cameras everywhere,are not deprived of schooling facilities,...then what makes US having a rape every 6th minute? Kerala,the so called most literate(yes I know literacy !=education) state of India tops the crime rate in recent years,also crime against women is one of the highest there as per NCRB data.
The education system and syllabus at present needs improvements and changes but society needs to improve as well.One needs to understand the variables are too many and even with this so called education we have at present things won't change much if society doesn't improve.

Stop stereotyping villages.Not denying that rural India has got lots of issues.India is a country of lot of villages and they are not uniform throughout nor are the cities.More than two-thirds of the population lives in rural areas.So with larger population living in rural areas plus having the larger portion of poor people deprived of basic needs of life makes the number of criminal instances in rural place higher than that of urban.But that doesn't make cities all that far better than rural places in general.My experiences in some villages has been quite good,much better than some of the cities I have lived in.No misogyny,nobody does some behavioral nonsense neither man nor woman,no loose comments on girls, these places are just as good as it gets to live even without some amenities. And yeah those village boys and men were lot better than the ones you would find in some cities as far as conduct is concerned.Finding a roadside loafer is impossible.Neither all villages that bad as being painted nor all our cities in general that good.

 

[kg11sgbg]

Education of what kind is being referred to?Education of getting degrees or passing some grades don't get much moral values put into you.If that was the case US,UK,Sweden won't be topping the charts in rape rate.They have more so called "educated" people,counselors,more security,higher sex ratio,more cameras everywhere,are not deprived of schooling facilities,...then what makes US having a rape every 6th minute? Kerala,the so called most literate(yes I know literacy !=education) state of India tops the crime rate in recent years,also crime against women is one of the highest there as per NCRB data.
The education system and syllabus at present needs improvements and changes but society needs to improve as well.One needs to understand the variables are too many and even with this so called education we have at present things won't change much if society doesn't improve.

Stop stereotyping villages.Not denying that rural India has got lots of issues.India is a country of lot of villages and they are not uniform throughout nor are the cities.More than two-thirds of the population lives in rural areas.So with larger population living in rural areas plus having the larger portion of poor people deprived of basic needs of life makes the number of criminal instances in rural place higher than that of urban.But that doesn't make cities all that far better than rural places in general.My experiences in some villages has been quite good,much better than some of the cities I have lived in.No misogyny,nobody does some behavioral nonsense neither man nor woman,no loose comments on girls, these places are just as good as it gets to live even without some amenities. And yeah those village boys and men were lot better than the ones you would find in some cities as far as conduct is concerned.Finding a roadside loafer is impossible.Neither all villages that bad as being painted nor all our cities in general that good.

+1, to this explanation.
I totally agree with your comments and I think anybody with at least a common sense and sane mentality,will do so.

Primary and principal awareness ,values,ethics,morality should start from family.It should be well nurtured through childhood,only then we could get a respected and strong society,that builds a base for strong nation.

In this regard, the values or ethics should not be adjudged with rich and poor. Since, morality,values,ethics cut across all the layers of society. It is very laughable and foolish to say,that a poor man due to his hardships and struggle loses all morality/ethics,but the middle class or the rich could nurture and keep them imbibed within.

 

[gemini90]

Elegantly put.

 

[REDHOTIRON2004]

+1, to this explanation.
I totally agree with your comments and I think anybody with at least a common sense and sane mentality,will do so.

Primary and principal awareness ,values,ethics,morality should start from family.It should be well nurtured through childhood,only then we could get a respected and strong society,that builds a base for strong nation.

In this regard, the values or ethics should not be adjudged with rich and poor. Since, morality,values,ethics cut across all the layers of society. It is very laughable and foolish to say,that a poor man due to his hardships and struggle loses all morality/ethics,but the middle class or the rich could nurture and keep them imbibed within.

Although, values and morality, ethics are nurtured by ones family and external/ internal environment. And it's not just about the poor and rich. A crime can be committed by anyone under certain circumstances.

I will just say that mortality and ethics are adhered to upto a limit only. People who dont have anything to eat and have to struggle everyday in there life, and have nothing much to loose, won't really give much credence to ethics as a person from a well to do background and have things at stake. They might not murder someone at the start but they would be easily inclined to do illegal things for survival.

At a certain level people won't go to the limit of killing a person. But, that would change as soon as his own survival will depend on it.

So, I would say that morality and ethics can only be nurtured or followed as long as a person can take care of his basic everyday needs.

If that situation changes then it won't take much time for the person to have an animal instinct.

And poor struggling people with nothing to loose have a much higher tendency compared to a family person that have its basic needs covered. At the same time have something to loose.

 

[gemini90]

See this is how our fellow indian males will suffer due to crass stereotyping I mentioned in the Nirbhaya thread.

Viral now: Quora query on German prof's refusal to give internship to Indian student

Read more at: Viral now: Quora query on German prof's refusal to give internship to Indian student : India, News - India Today

In what appears to be a direct international fallout of the numerous rapes being reported from India, a student who had applied to a German university for admission has reportedly been turned down by a professor of the Leipzig University citing the rape culture in India.

*media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//2015March/letter1_story-650_030915113914.jpg

If the screenshots of two emails, posted originally on Quora and later on Twitter, are to be believed, a professor from the Leipzig University - identified in one screenshot as Annette Beck Sickinger of the Institute of Biochemistry, Leipzig University - turned down the student saying, "unfortunately I don't accept any Indian male students for internships. We hear a lot about the rape problem in India which I cannot support. I have many female students in my group, so I think this attitude is something I cannot support, [SIC]"

*media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//2015March/letter2_mos-650_030915113915.jpg

When the applicant reportedly mailed the professor saying that this was generalisation, the professor reportedly wrote back saying, "I fully agree that this is a generalisation and may not apply to individuals. However, it is also unbelievable that the Indian society is not able to solve this problem for many years now. Reports reach Germany on a weekly base, and especially these "multi-rape crimes" are threatening, but for me also demonstrate the attitude of a society towards women. Also female tourists are kidnapped by groups of males and then abused.

"Many female professors in Germany decided to no longer accept male Indian students for these reasons, and currently other European female association are joining. Of course we cannot change or influence the Indian society, but only take our consequences here in Europe."

The three screenshots of the email have gone viral on twitter with many people asking if it is true or not and others demanding that MEA take up the issue with the German ambassador.

Soon after reports of this came out, the German ambassador to India, Michael Steiner, wrote a scathing letter to Professor Sickinger condemning the refusal of internship to the student.

In his letter, Steiner wrote, "It has been brought to my attention that you denied an intemship to a male Indian student, giving "the rape problem in India" as a reason. Let me make it clear at the outset that I strongly object to this.

"The 2012 Nirbhaya rape case has refocused attention on the issue of violence against women. Rape is indeed a serious issue in India as in most countries, including Germany. In India, the Nirbhaya case has triggered a lively honest, sustained and very healthy public debate - a public debate of a quality that wouldn't be possible in many other countries. The Indian Government and Indian civil society organisations are very committed to tackling the issue.

"Yesterday we celebrated International Women's Day at the German Embassy here in Delhi with many local activists including many men. Your oversimplifying and discriminating generalization is an offense to these women and men ardently committed to furthering women empowennenti n India; and it is an offense to millions of law-abiding, tolerant, open-minded and hard-working Indians. Let's be clear: India is not a country of rapists.

There is a very famous dictum "An arrow once released and word once uttered can NEVER be taken back"

So no matter what judgement is pronounced, what apology is issued (Not that it will happen) the film CANNOT be withdrawn, or the negative stereotyping of Indians can never be erased from the minds of those who have seen it. The loads of commentary and articles that have followed can never be withdrawn. The wiki entry will never be taken down but a line might get added at the end.

Standard operating procedure in a media psyops. Why do you think BBC advanced the date of telecast for this latest video? The fear was if the Indians obtained some kind of stay in the UK. So they preempted that possibility and immediately pushed out the video for download. No matter what we do the original balance of opinion worldwide will never be restored.
.................................................................................
One Comment : I'm Intrigued by this story as it has massive legal ramifications. Should the events and communications referred to be valid, it means that there have been manifest breaches of the European Convention On Human Rights (Article 14 ) "The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, color, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.".It reference to multiple German Female Professors and European Groups Joining in such Discrimination is of great interest, as it shown that Feminism (and those who espouse it) are not Pro-equality, but actively seek to discriminate not just on grounds of being male but also promote institutionalized Racism.
.................................................................................

 

[vkl]

"Select a few morons and blame the entire culture or country",that is what is at works by BBC/Udwin.Wonder what would they have to say in relation to rape rate in their own country,plus things like rotherham sexual abuse for years by Muslim groups and the silence they observed.

Many people read mainstream media as if they show the ultimate truth even if many of these morons have been involved in multiple scandals/scams.
NDTV anyone?(RadiaGate,5500Crore money laundering scam,years of Pro-Pakistani/separatist agenda based and Anti-India nonsense,Chaitanya Kunte issue,all the heads of the channel being directly related to some politicians,gross false-reporting,less fact-checking and more hyping over the years(eg. Rohtak sisters incident)). They don't have time to verify things,they just read whatever is fed by mainstream media.

The hypocrisy by Udwin/BBC is not very hard to see.Especially telecasting this on international women's day.
Why not make a doc and telecast for the Rotherham sexual abuse of 1400+ or Oxfordshire sexual abuse.Then calling the culture and society sick by making remarks like "most men in India are programmed in some way" "This is a sick society" . Also what was Shiva and Parvati image was doing there lol? The hypocrisy involved is not that hard to see.
A misogynous lawyer and an inhuman rapist,murderer to paint a picture of Indian culture? One doesn't ask rapist about rape & then judge the society based on it.

 

[snap]

I only see finger pointings instead of concentrating on the issue...

 

[gemini90]

Well then try to seperate the 2 totally different issues at hand and not club them together to the benefit of others.

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And this blatant racism and sexism at display is not for 1st time either.

Has German professor denied opportunity to Indian students on more than one occasion citing India’s “rape culture”?

Has German professor denied opportunity to Indian students on more than one occasion citing India?s ?rape culture??

 

[Nanducob]

I never mentioned that earning degrees will stop you from commiting a rape or a crime.
Education =/= school ,colleges.This includes nursery education too
Not everything is learned from schools and colleges,somethings are learned from parents,friends etc.
Like every countries ,US ,UK etc have their share of uneducated people.
And it the "REPORTED" rape cases that happens once in six minutes in U.S.
Dont know how many cases are reported here ,but will be very less with less cameras

 

[Flash]

Amid a wave of anger, the German Ambassador to India, Michael Steiner, objected strongly to the exchange, after which the professor apologised.

"I made a mistake. I never had the intention of discriminating against Indian society. I have nothing at all against students from India - quite to the contrary. If I hurt anybody's feelings, I duly and heartily apologize and feel sorry for any misunderstandings," Professor Sickinger said in a statement uploaded on the German embassy website.

The German envoy tweeted out his letter to the professor.

German Professor Apologises for Rejecting Indian Student Citing 'Rape Problem in India'

 

[vkl]

I never mentioned that earning degrees will stop you from commiting a rape or a crime.
Education =/= school ,colleges.This includes nursery education too
Not everything is learned from schools and colleges,somethings are learned from parents,friends etc.
Like every countries ,US ,UK etc have their share of uneducated people.
And it the "REPORTED" rape cases that happens once in six minutes in U.S.
Dont know how many cases are reported here ,but will be very less with less cameras

Cameras don't lead to more reported rapes in general,it only makes for more security i.e. less chances of someone attempting/doing such crime in front of cameras.
As far as India is concerned,it is estimated to be about every 22minutes,also worth noting India's population is about 4x to that of US.Yes,under-reporting is a big factor but so is in the case of US,UK and many other countries according to data presented. From statistics US rape-rate is about 15x higher than that of India.This gap would be reduced somewhat by inclusion of marital rape under rape rather than domestic violence s. Rape Is Grossly Underreported In The U.S., Study Finds

 

[nikufellow]

German Professor Apologises for Rejecting Indian Student Citing 'Rape Problem in India'

Quoting from quora

"female professors in Germany decided to no longer accept Indian male students for these reasons, and currently other European female association are joining. Of course we cannot change or influence the Indian society but only take our consequences in Europe. "

I would urge bbc/ndtv to continue their noble efforts and make more documentaries exposing Indian men. Also on this occasion I'd like to call upon all liberal rational thinkers of this country to support our media in its endeavor to lay bare the rape culture of Indian society.

Thanks

 

[gemini90]

[MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] Read that article GhorMaanas posted about campus rape in US a few pages back. And see how a 16 year old victim was being pilloried as being responsible for having herself raped by 2 footballers by US media. How the careers of 2 promising sportsman has gone to waste and other rubbish. Red also about why that victim of Bill Cosby's sexual advances remained silent until now. So it is not a surprise that rapes are under reported in USA too seeing the attitude they have towards rape victims.

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[MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] Was that sarcasm or did you just decide to post a comment without first going through the entire thread?

 

[nikufellow]

[MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] Read that article GhorMaanas posted about campus rape in US a few pages back. And see how a 16 year old victim was being pilloried as being responsible for having herself raped by 2 footballers by US media. How the careers of 2 promising sportsman has gone to waste and other rubbish. Red also about why that victim of Bill Cosby's sexual advances remained silent until now. So it is not a surprise that rapes are under reported in USA too seeing the attitude they have towards rape victims.

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[MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] Was that sarcasm or did you just decide to post a comment without first going through the entire thread?

The Delhi uber case made national and international headlines, still remember those lengthy talk shows in the evening where a few intellectuals would gather to discuss what really is wrong with Indian men or rather society at large and at the end as final conclusion they'd point finger at government for not having done enough and rest their case

Meanwhile a similar case in US fails to make much ruckus even within US let alone any international news outlets

At least two of the women who reported sexual assaults in Boston on Sunday were using Uber, police say - Metro - The Boston Globe

 

[gemini90]

[MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] ^^ Well then my apologies for thinking otherwise. I did not get that it was sarcasm in the beginning.

 

[Flash]

*i.imgur.com/S85gWnP.png

 

[Nanducob]

[MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] Read that article GhorMaanas posted about campus rape in US a few pages back. And see how a 16 year old victim was being pilloried as being responsible for having herself raped by 2 footballers by US media. How the careers of 2 promising sportsman has gone to waste and other rubbish. Red also about why that victim of Bill Cosby's sexual advances remained silent until now. So it is not a surprise that rapes are under reported in USA too seeing the attitude they have towards rape victims.

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[MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] Was that sarcasm or did you just decide to post a comment without first going through the entire thread?

So these two instances prove that US has more rapes?
Of you say its not the lack of education that is causing rapes ,then what is it?

 

[nikufellow]

So these two instances prove that US has more rapes?
Of you say its not the lack of education that is causing rapes ,then what is it?

West having more rapes or not isn't the point, their media and the international media doesn't hype it as much as in case of Indian incidents.

If Education/culture/backwardness/mindset etc are to blamed then how do you explain recurring incidents in other countries which are far ahead of us in almost every social indicators

 

[Desmond]

West having more rapes or not isn't the point, their media and the international media doesn't hype it as much as in case of Indian incidents.

If Education/culture/backwardness/mindset etc are to blamed then how do you explain recurring incidents in other countries which are far ahead of us in almost every social indicators

From what I know, international media does not hype rape cases because in those countries, law enforcement acts quickly and the cases are dispatched off fast.

It is true that education alone won't prevent rapes since it is caused mostly by desperation or lack of restraint, characteristics that go beyond education or upbringing.

 

[Nanducob]

West having more rapes or not isn't the point, their media and the international media doesn't hype it as much as in case of Indian incidents.

If Education/culture/backwardness/mindset etc are to blamed then how do you explain recurring incidents in other countries which are far ahead of us in almost every social indicators

Why there are beggars and Hobos in devoloped countries? Not everybody goes to school.Americans dont have the urge to go to colleges as much as Indians do.
Also how many woman in India will openly admit and file a case against rapists?

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It is true that education alone won't prevent rapes since it is caused mostly by desperation or lack of restraint, characteristics that go beyond education or upbringing.

Good points.
I will also add male dominated mindset and psychological problems