Meddling the Middle Classes

[ThinkFree]

But the good news is that if they are unable to find the required number of OBC candidates, the vacant seats would go to general category and would not be going to SC/ST category

 

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

Supreme court like Government of India is lame , both are piece of crap ,earlier supreme court was last hope , but its useless

 

[infra_red_dude]

but 1 thing that i would also like to say is that outside the IITs and NITs there is no Uni whose Engg exams cannot be aced by just learning the local author txt books by rote and going through the previous 4-5 yrs Qs papers - guarantted to get you a first class

IMO aptitude has got absolutely nothing to with this style of exam preparation. 2 days after the paper you will be as knowledgeble as an arty or commy student about the engg paper. But on the day of the paper you will be prepared for a first class

When it can be said about general merit students why not for "reserved" category students? If anyone can solve 4-5 years Q papers and gets a first class then why reservation??!!

Or is it coz its very tuff to get into IITs and NITs people demand reservation? There are some fundamental points I fail to understand.

the motive behind that act I mean.. if you feel someone is inferior you start to bully. in that case its more a fault of the person who is bullying/abusing.

It is easy to talk, my dear friend. But when you've toiled hard for something and it just misses you then you feel the pinch. You me everyone. This is human nature. At that time, no matter how considerate or just you are things like these happen. I am witness to some of the worst abuses for the reserved category students, only coz they were labelled so.

racial discrimination is much worse than ragging. just because people are from a backward class and got through reservation it doesnt mean they have to be insulted.

Completely agree.

do the same guys have the guts to insult/bully someone who came thru management/CM/MP/MLA/VC/Dean/Industry quota ?? also the highly misused NRI quota ?

Forget all these quotas, lets just consider Sports quota for a min. Does anyone insult/bully them? Even if the candidate is from the so-called "backward class" nobody insults them coz they got thru Sports or NCC quota. Why? First, they are not getting free lunch. They are proving something, it may not be a very big thing.. but at least something. Secondly, compare the Management/CM/MP/MLA/VC/Dean/Industry/Sports/NCC/Disabled quota seats with the normal seats. Whats the ratio? mebbe 1:50?

just think that the guy though less privileged and not as talented as others are was given a chance considering his background and he is now able to study with you all and improve his situation.

Exactly, why no extend this to economically poor class? That is all I ask. Why are these "less-privileged" always "less-privileged"?

The Indian government wants more representation of people from a varied social background to be studying in the elite institutions instead of them being just filled up to the brim with people from very privileged societies.

That is a wrong notion. The elite institutions (IITs for e.g) are not filled with "people from very privileged societies". They are filled with people who are "deserving".

The govt is always at fault for a variety of reasons, but I have to accept that the reservation policy is being fully exploited by each and every politicial party to gain full mileage for their vested interests.[/quota]
Completely agree.

though some good is being surfaced in this whole drama.

Disagree. Mebbe 1 in 10,000 case!

Fair treatment and equality is a noble thing. who doesnot want it. the anti-reservation souls should realise that reservation is precisely being carried out to ensure fair treatment and equality to the less privileged and oppressed sections of the society..

Just a few questions: With these reservation around, are the so-called "backward class" people being accepted in the society with dignity? Are they allowed in the temples, as someone mentioned? How is it helping them? Only by earning money? How are they becoming equal? Isn't it time we abolished this caste system and tell everyone that all humans are equal?

"doesn't even know how to walk can be made to run in the olympics??"can we call it an exaggeration??

Yes, we can. And its a very wrong way to speak so.

hmm this 'subject of mocery', 'target for abuse', 'inferiority tag', etc are just scare terms and dont carry much weightage. Imagine in a class, will half of them gonna be playing a game of mocking the other half ??

I do not know about TN (since you said you studied there) but yes, this thing is NOT scarce! I can confirm that.

...but ended up with less cos he is not as smart as you are

Do not agree. Every human being is same. Jus coz he's from some so-called caste doesn't become less smarter.

.... and/or do not have the kind of exposure that a lot of us enjoy.

Agree completely. And this is what they need to demand from the Govt. for the development. Not slack in marks...

I know how important is primary schooling No doubt. but the cost of spending to aid the poor in primary schools is a very huge one and the sheer number of beneficiaries add to the complexity.

One question: Can you strengthen a house from above if its foundation is weak? Isn't primary education what is most imp.? How can we expect the development of an individual when he hasn't got good primary education? Doesn't the Govt. need to implement "reservation" for this?

 

[iMav]

The govt is always at fault for a variety of reasons, but I have to accept that the reservation policy is being fully exploited by each and every politicial party to gain full mileage for their vested interests.[/quota]

Completely agree.

infra take a break uv got a quote(a) over dose

 

[narangz]

Aren't they spreading hatred in minds of General Category people towards those Reserved Category people? I can see that coming but hope it doesn't go too far.

 

[mediator]

the motive behind that act I mean.. if you feel someone is inferior you start to bully. in that case its more a fault of the person who is bullying/abusing.

Inferiority or lust or the case of opposite sex? Here we r talking of the reality based on partiality. Its quite common for a gang of girls to pass comments on a sweet boy passing by, or to look at him like that or to talk dirty among themselves and vice versa. Even girls can show boys not to mess around with them. So please stick to what we r discussing. U only need to ponder over it.

racial discrimination is much worse than ragging. just because people are from a backward class and got through reservation it doesnt mean they have to be insulted.

Agreed! But, people want equality. U can ponder over the flaws to reservation itself. Rich SC/ST getting via reervation, people making fake IDs to sho that they r from OBC? How much strict is our govt. in checking these? Even terrorists today can get fake passports for a handsome of amount and then voting cards and even getting into military. I hope u read news!

Its the rage and feeling of insult they (G.C) feel when they see their hardwork was for nuthing. If u r well acknowledged to the reality then u wud have realised that many OBCs consider it below their dignity to get admission via reservation. They really don't want to carry the tag of reservation. So its a reality and not something that masses can ignore!

do the same guys have the guts to insult/bully someone who came thru management/CM/MP/MLA/VC/Dean/Industry quota ?? also the highly misused NRI quota ?

Like I said be realistic. Half of those guys who come via bribe and other means also get passed via such means. They got failed? So what, with a little 'means' they can get themselves passed! And u must know how much the commerical colleges charge. Money is all that matters to them. BTW, most of the people from the quota u mentioned, don't get bullied but bully others. And its not necessarily a situation where privileged guys get bullied, its also the divide we r talking of.

what is the need for one to know whether anyone is from OBC SC or ST quota ? it is not that OBC SC ST is attached to your register numbers. and even if you came to know what is the problem exactly ? just think that the guy though less privileged and not as talented as others are was given a chance considering his background and he is now able to study with you all and improve his situation. how difficult is that ? let us not show attitude.

why people think that he stole someone else's seat ? its not the case. The Indian government wants more representation of people from a varied social background to be studying in the elite institutions instead of them being just filled up to the brim with people from very privileged societies.

U seem to be soo innocent to be asking even about the simplest prevailing reality. Its not that anyone wud ask u ur DOB, Fathers name, blood group or whether u r HIV +ve or not. But people do like to ask ur marks, ranks and where do they stand. Its the marksheet also they like to see. Do I need to tell more? I hope not!

I am not even stating that the guy from poor background is less talented. He may be more talented and much intelligent than others. He may show extraordinary performance in music classes. But where will he get instruments to practice on his own at his home? Where will he get the money from to sustain? And if he can do that? How is he financially backwards?

I just gave one example. But the overall scenario is collective of the person's overall subjects and interests where he may need instruments, books, PC, magazines etc!

And if INDIAN govt wants more representation of people from different backgrounds, then how is reservation is the answer. Aligarh muslims university hold 50% muslim reservation, now collective reservation AFAIk goes like 49% beyond which OBCs/SCs/STs can come even through general quota. "Oh we have reserved seats for u, now u can participate. But the path is all yours".

How are they improving the students? They have lowered the ranks/marks for them and made them used with it. U think thats competition? In an indirect term I guess they r telling them the harsh reality of who they r and making others realise of such a reality.

Now let me give u an instance. I came from a computer science section where many were financially backwards. Only a few were found to be from resveration criteria after this crap came out. A small division happened. But ignore that. Coming straight to the point, many of the financially backwards people were intelligent. Some learnt the theoretical concepts of programming faster than I did. But theory isn't all. One need to be practical too. So even after the graduation, they were very weak practically and hardly made programs themselves. Many of them didn't even know how to install windows. While the ones who had PCs in their homes did it all.
Now do u think privates will teach them all this all over again? I hope u know how much important it is to be practically sound when u enter the corporate as a programmer, admin etc. Don't u think govt. shud aid em financially?

the anti-reservation souls should realise that reservation is precisely being carried out to ensure fair treatment and equality to the less privileged and oppressed sections of the society.. unfortunately they constitute the major percentage of India's population. Only when these social and economic conditions of these people are raised to a more acceptable level, the so-called Fair Treatment, equality, unbiased policy making, can be ensured.

Socio-economic conditions don't get automatically and magically raised to a more acceptable level. Primary education which plays a major role in all isn't to be neglected. BTW how much good has the previous resvervation done? Were they upto their mark? Do u realize how many seats go vacant because of this? Then why 'increase' resvervations? This is neither equality nor fair treatment but simply a mindless game of vote bank politics where the history has been ignored and merit has been undermined dramatically.


Let me quote something from the first 'wiki' link u quoted.

The framers of the Constitution believed that, due to the caste system, SCs and the STs were historically oppressed and denied respect and equal opportunity in Indian society and were thus under-represented in nation-building activities. The Constitution laid down 15% and 7.5% of vacancies to government aided educational institutes and for jobs in the government/public sector, as reserved quota for the SC and ST candidates respectively for a period of five years, after which the situation was to be reviewed. This period was routinely extended by the following governments and the Indian Parliament, and no revisions were undertaken for the fear of losing votes

Understand the excerpt first. Instead of curing the menace of ill treatment, they countered it with another menace (reservation) and increased it in fear of another menace (vote bank) without even reviewing it? Will the final menace of reservation help curing the menace of illtreatment. It will just divide the society further like discussed and bound to happen creating a much worse menace. Is that what u call equality and fair treatment?? Seems like hypocrisy to me!

Ok, again lets see.....rich can get via money power, there is muslim revervation in some, sc/st reservation, OBC reservation + they can get general category seats tooo. Then their is a flawed system where one can fake his ID and enter through the privileged quota. On the top of that many of SC/STs, muslims are rich who still can get thru that quota i.e 49% reservation "might be" tapped by fair n unfair means. WHo is worst victim? Middle class people?

It seems in future they r the ones who might need reservations of any sort!! Do u support that? A complete division?? What a fine division of society!!

"doesn't even know how to walk can be made to run in the olympics??"
can we call it an exaggeration?? running in the olympics is the pinnacle for an athlete. if I have to potray in real life, what you are saying in the above sentence, it will be like this "randomly selecting a KG school student and making him the CEO of a mega corp" let us refrain from making unnecessary exaggerations and come to reality.

SC/STs situation cannot be explained in very short sentences. I clearly dunno how to speak about this situation prudently.

and for the rest of the statements in the above quote this is my reaction

Do I smell sarcasm here? Till now u haven't acknowledged much that u know of reality very much neither u have shown that u understand of who do we really call financially backwards or who r the SCs/STs/OBCs! U can't classify and u certainly don't know the reality very much. So again I ask who do u indetify as "financially backwards" the ones with lower castes as said or the ones who really r poor?????

as I said in my above statement let us not exaggerate plz. private companies teach you nought. its the employee who learns. I know many reserved class students who are working in a variety of companies performing very well. these companies dont give any special preference to them while recruiting. they also go through the common pool. so ineffect reservation has won here. those underprivileged students got in to my campus through reservation, and got out through a common system the private companies follow

I have even seen these students get placed in Dream companies, who are ruthless in the selection processes.

and No I dont know how much loss the company goes through.. but I know how those companies wring out the last drop of work from you before paying.
maybe one day if I start a company I will know better

AGain I ask, how many of those reserved class students were actually "financially backwards"?? Even I can get a fake ID to get me thru reservation, and perform well afterwards. Its not exaggeration but a clear case where "u can't classify and distinguish". If an employee can learn nicely what the company wants, then surely he must have done his primary skooling well and if he can sustain it, then he must have his concepts cleared as well and if cud compete, then what stopped him from competing similary without reservation? And finally if he was that much able, then its quite obvious for the rest of the general category students to get aggravated as their hardwork was undermined. AGAIN, my question if its "employee that learns" then why not be equal in that? If he can't have enough money, then why not subsidise his education instead of lowering his merit threshold?

hmm this 'subject of mocery', 'target for abuse', 'inferiority tag', etc are just scare terms and dont carry much weightage. Imagine in a class, will half of them gonna be playing a game of mocking the other half ??

your dialogue above maybe suitable for a comic strip

A : "What rank did u get?"
B : " 9999"
A : "But the selection stopped at 2000?"
B : "I came thru reservation"
A : "Hmmm, I gotta leave now!"
B : "bb" *who cares*

and then it is understandable that people would go ballistic once they know they have lost the chance. but they have to realise this is the law and theres a big picture behind it. every year lakhs of people go ballistic after CAT results (I'm one of them ) so what can be done

Don't mind u r talking like LALOO now, "who cares". . "YEa I got thru reservation, unlucky u, with less preparation to go thru....hahaha".
Neways if u went ballistic after CAT results, did u opt for reservation? I guess its onlu making ur life easier then, and difficult for general category students. Equality to all and fair treatment? Palleease!

and you never disappoint me in the exaggeration dept. getting in with approach or bribe is another serious issue. let us not digress. but the guy who got in thru reservation probably spent more time than you and worked harder but ended up with less cos he is not as smart as you are and/or do not have the kind of exposure that a lot of us enjoy.

U r just repeating the situation where u can't classify and distinguish clearly! Why is he less smart? Smartness isn't financially related, sire! Google if u don't understand definitions.

And if he doesn't have exposure then shudn't govt help him financially? Its like u don't understand reality well or u can't digest it, so u terming it as exaggeration!! So if the guy worked harder (means he had the books and necessary material), ended up less (becoz he got less rank?), why does he needsto go thru reservation? Just becoz he comes from a cast that has been privileged so? Again a clear case where merit is undermined!

The case we r discussing of when a person can't work hard. Why? May be becoz his family is finanically weak, may be becoz he has to do labour so as to earn money parallel with his study, may be becoz becoz he can't study becoz his labour earns a major percentage of his family income!! Do u even understand what we r discussing? AGAIn I stress, "WHO Do u call finanically backwards??". Are u financially backwards? I guess not, coz I see u chatting with me over internet on a PC, forumming regularly concluding that u have all the time in the world!

I know how important is primary schooling No doubt. but the cost of spending to aid the poor in primary schools is a very huge one and the sheer number of beneficiaries add to the complexity.

yes giving importance to college level education than to primary level is unbalanced policy.. but as time progresses and India develops it is bound to happen just like this 60000cr loan waiver (motives behind that may be different but it is commendable)

Do u even know how many years it takes to complete primary education. Forget the complexity! If u think one can bypass primary skooling, thinking about the 'expenses' and then getting thru reservation solves all the problem, then I guess u r joking badly......a bad joke that none can digest!!

U defintely are not the finance minister to be thinking about the loan waiver! Lets see again, why it all started?
* Ill treatment of SC/ST.....a percentage of resvervation implemented! Many seats went vacant and hence started undermining of merit!
* What is govt doing? Killing of the farmers? Constructing buildings on fertile lands and paying farmers less?? Thats making em poorer!
* Unbalanced development. i.e metropolitans developed at a faster pace then the rest of the country? Problem? Influx of population from rural to urban lands for better employment! Result? Higher congestion, competition level. The ones who cudn't get thru becoz they migrated from rural areas feel left out. Many opt for inappropriate means and many adopt the path of crime. And now picture whats happening in INDIA.

And in all of this where is the root cause of the problem i.e illtreatment of SCs/STs is being resolved?? Its being ignored completely and merit on the other hand is being properly and systematically undermined!

I hope u know INDIA is on the world map of financially strong countries where it aids the ones when tsunamis sweep them out, where it spends billions of dollars on defenses and even donates for "good cause" for weaker countries. It "donates"! So u defintely don't need to be perceptive of that matter so as to completely ignore the root cause.

there IS a world of difference between people who get through via money power/influence etc and people who come via reservation. you have to understand that. the former is FAR serious issue but as I said earlier that totally different let us open a new FC thread for it

IN both the cases merit is undermined and why is only the former a "FAR" serious issue, just cause u may have the privleged status fancied for u??

I sincerely apologise for this and retract my statements. As I'm not the one to frequent the FC, I was unaware

Even so, your statements wud have sounded utterly low for even a newcomer to this forum!!

In democracy we have a constitution by which govt functions. In dictatorship whatever the dictator says is the constitution . Given the present world scenario if you think that there are bound to be benevolent dictators ready for a country like India, then Its not me who is in the dreamland.

Like I said, u can read and then reply! Its not that big!

Aren't they spreading hatred in minds of General Category people towards those Reserved Category people? I can see that coming but hope it doesn't go too far.

U have to visualize the big picture. Its bound to go far. If general category students wont get admission next, then u know where they will be looking next! And then government cries "BRAIN DRAIN"!

 

[narangz]

U have to visualize the big picture. Its bound to go far. If general category students wont get admission next, then u know where they will be looking next! And then government cries "BRAIN DRAIN"!

Brain Drain is already going on a big scale. You gotta ask the people of our state about that.

 

[infra_red_dude]

infra take a break uv got a quote(a) over dose

Lolz...

 

[kumarmohit]

^^ Erm wat state?

 

[narangz]

^^I guess that was for me. By State I mean my State i.e. Punjab. If you ask the youngsters here more than 95% want to settle abroad. You know what, some villages don't have youngsters at all! You'll find elderly people only.

That's a sorry state. But if you ask me even I prefer settling abroad. Fed up of reservations, corruption and all that crap. I love my state, my country, our culture, our beliefs, our rituals but...

What is government doing? By government I mean both Centre & State govts. We don't have much jobs here in our state specially in IT sector. The govt jobs have most of the jobs reserved & some don't even have a single job for general category. What can we do? Then they say youth should stay in their motherland & serve this country.

 

[iMav]

in gurgaon/noida if u have a job be careful u just might get shot, its like new york, the next corner might be ur last step

 

[narangz]

^^Errr... Why?

 

[iMav]

dont u see the news

 

[narangz]

^^I don't usually watch TV. Read them in newspaper only.

 

[mediator]

^^I guess that was for me. By State I mean my State i.e. Punjab. If you ask the youngsters here more than 95% want to settle abroad. You know what, some villages don't have youngsters at all! You'll find elderly people only.

That's a sorry state. But if you ask me even I prefer settling abroad. Fed up of reservations, corruption and all that crap. I love my state, my country, our culture, our beliefs, our rituals but...

What is government doing? By government I mean both Centre & State govts. We don't have much jobs here in our state specially in IT sector. The govt jobs have most of the jobs reserved & some don't even have a single job for general category. What can we do? Then they say youth should stay in their motherland & serve this country.

I understand!

in gurgaon/noida if u have a job be careful u just might get shot, its like new york, the next corner might be ur last step

Thats around sector 30, 40 AFAIK. Neways UP is UP but Delhi too is giving a good competition!

 

[gxsaurav]

Why do u guys even care about all this nonsense??? Why r u all still running after conventional things in education whose institutes are ruined by reservations etc....

When I completed my 12th I decided that I won't go for conventional education like Engg or medical, I decided to do what I liked to do in school, drawing. I never cared about reservation or anything, I did B.Com just for the sake of graduation, & even skipped the plans for MBA now cos I don't see myself fitting there. Reservation never stopped me from doing anything & today I m what I am on my own, a designer, something I learned on my own.....

look for your own qualities, enhance them, don't run after education unless u r a genius in studies. Like if u r physics genius then why go for engg & why not nuclear physics...?

You wanna succeed in this world in 2008, then do what u can do & not what others want u to do....at least for me Street smartness has always been better then Book smartness

 

[Faun]

^^lol
atleast u hav got the motto of life

 

[pannaguma]

Why do u guys even care about all this nonsense??? Why r u all still running after conventional things in education whose institutes are ruined by reservations etc....
.....
You wanna succeed in this world in 2008, then do what u can do & not what others want u to do....at least for me Street smartness has always been better then Book smartness

you answered ur own question ....... not everyone is confident about their "street smartness". so they instead choose to go down a well trodden path .........

When I completed my 12th I decided that I won't go for conventional education like Engg or medical, I decided to do what I liked to do in school, drawing. I never cared about reservation or anything, I did B.Com just for the sake of graduation, & even skipped the plans for MBA now cos I don't see myself fitting there...... today I m what I am on my own, a designer, something I learned on my own.....

yeah i guess it takes a lot of guts to do things "hatke".

Reservation never stopped me from doing anything

well the field ur in is not exactly like engg/medical in terms of "competition". its not like IITs/IIMs where the seats are sooo limited its a miracle to go thru ..........

and then imagine the no of seats being again cut down....... obviously ppl react angrily to rfeuscekrivnagtions

 

[drgrudge]

Why do u guys even care about all this nonsense??? Why r u all still running after conventional things in education whose institutes are ruined by reservations etc....

When I completed my 12th I decided that I won't go for conventional education like Engg or medical, I decided to do what I liked to do in school, drawing. I never cared about reservation or anything, I did B.Com just for the sake of graduation, & even skipped the plans for MBA now cos I don't see myself fitting there. Reservation never stopped me from doing anything & today I m what I am on my own, a designer, something I learned on my own.....

look for your own qualities, enhance them, don't run after education unless u r a genius in studies. Like if u r physics genius then why go for engg & why not nuclear physics...?

You wanna succeed in this world in 2008, then do what u can do & not what others want u to do....at least for me Street smartness has always been better then Book smartness

Your best post by far in this forum. Good.

 

[gxsaurav]

you answered ur own question ....... not everyone is confident about their "street smartness". so they instead choose to go down a well trodden path .........

Confidence is required, the path I have selected to follow in life is also not easy, designers are not that popular without a BFA or NIFT degree (I did give NIFT exam in 2002), but here is the thing, there are some "paths" where your own quality matters, not your degree. My dad still thinks that the job I m doing right now is some part time job & I will do some desk job soon in 3 to 4 months

When I go to somewhere for an interview for 3d archi designer, they don't ask my Resume or Degree first, they give me a workstation runnings 3ds Max & tell me to make something there in front of them, your capability is tested right there....this is how the education system should be like...based on the capability of student.

yeah i guess it takes a lot of guts to do things "hatke".

Yeah, that's true. My whole kahndan hates me for doing what I want....jara hatke .

Abe I even flirt jara hat ke andaaj se ... just yesterday I went to see Krazzy 4 with my Ex-gf while her current BF was fuming at her in the movie on phone "Why the hell you went for movie with Saurav"

well the field ur in is not exactly like engg/medical in terms of "competition". its not like IITs/IIMs where the seats are sooo limited its a miracle to go thru

Even my field has competition, but here is the thing....with my street smartness I know how to tackle the competition. It's not like there aren't better designers then me, there are some who are super duper genius in VRay while I prefer Mental Ray for archi, but my MRay Quality matches there VRay quality so I m preferred as good as them.

Competition is everywhere but if you want to succeed then do something on your own, enhance your quality....don't just whine in front of a computer screen that Middle Class is meddled by reservation. You wanna protest, there are ways to protest today which were not there in 2002, do so....make plans, unite, stick posters in colleges, if a rule can be passes in society then it can also be taken back....don't just give up.

A friend of mine recently told me to go for MBA etc etc, so I asked him "You did MBA, what did it teach you". He said "It taught me only how to talk & present my ideas or commute to other properly", I said "Isn't that what I am already doing better then you right now. You are Deputy Manager, IT devision, India for that bank...I am a Rake, I talk. "

Just know what your are capable of, be confident in what ever you do & nothing can stop you....

Accept for your small doggie barking at the door to feed her first