Graphics Cards related queries here.

[mohiuddin]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

The gtx 570 performs on par or even a bit better than 480 and that too its not a flagship part. Isn't that enough to stand its ground over its competitors. It has everything we would have wanted fermi to be like and more . Gf100 was a major architecture change from nvidia since the g80(8800gtx).

This time it is just being fine tuned and the results are very promising. More parts will follow including the dual gpu based gtx595. Only the launch of cayman and antilles will prove whether they have enough muscle to oust gf110.

wid that lot of upgrage in 5xx we see alot of nothing in performance improvement.it is a huge die(slightly lower dan d 4xxx) ~500mmsq,vapor cooled,power hungry(slightly low than 4xx-still 40w high than 5870) version of 4xx.nothing else.we expected 5xx in d first place with 4xxx.

frst of all, we wanted gtx 5xx type in 4xx abt 6~7 month ago.2nd ,u said a lot of something r added nd moded in d 5xx...but what we see in performance- a lot of nothing..isn't it.480 is on par wid 570.3rd,give 480 a vapor cooler, then compare d temp.4th, power consumption,still 40~w extra then 5870.5th,die size,5870 is ~330mm^2 nd 570 is ~500 nd 6870 ~255.even a 5xxx with ~500die area could outperform it with a vapor cooler.6th, pricing ,heard 69xx will hav decent price policy.

 

[vickybat]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

^^ might be in today's games but just wait for tesselation to become the norm whiich is very near. gtx 570 is not a 480 with a vapor cooler. Read the reviews properly and then post.

5870 is nowhere near the 570 so lets not talk of that. The modding is done for better efficiency. Nobody doubted the gtx 480 for its performance but for increased power and temps. That has been rectified and you have the gtx 570 which gives same performance and in some scenarios better than 480.

Talk about die size both amd and nvidia employ 40nm transistors but have different architectures. Fabing is lot more than adding transistors to sillicon die and have a lot of limitations so don't go for biased conclusions.

 

[Cilus]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

It will take a lot of time to make tessellation mainstream for gaming, it s not that easy. I think more than 1 year is required for that. Now look at the life span of today's graphic cards... That time both Nvidia and ATI will release their next level GPUs and comparing what GTX 570 will do when Tessellation come is simply not valid.
mohiuddin is right about "Nvidia need this card 5-6 months back", right now it is not a good choice.
Now price point of view, Nvidia simply can't beat AMD/ATI because of their huge manufacturing cost. Anything over 256 bit Bus (which is industry standard) will take a lot of extra effort Plus the extra cooler design to minimize their heat...another huge cost. Nvidia GPUs are getting bigger and bigger.

Look at ATI/AMD. They still use 256 BUS but can deliver almost same level of performance corresponding to their Nvidia counter parts. They have low power requirement, less heat generation and their die size does not increase as much with new series release as in case of Nvidia.
So They can increase their cards core clock speed and memory speed better than Nvidia.

In one of my posts I mentioned that consider a HD 6870 with 1600 SPs. It will simply beat GTX 570 or 480, no architectural change requires + less power and Less heat + less price.

5870 is nowhere near the 570

Well for countering it Nvidia had to release two new generations of processor.
At the price point HD 5870 is still a threat to GTX 570 and AMD decreases its price further things are gonna be interesting.

fabrication does have its limitation.If you create a huge Die, then obviously heat generation, power requirement will increase and for countering it you need to add other efficient measures too, hence increasing cost.
Just being the highest performer is not the only reuirement here, you need to be within reachable price range.

 

[vickybat]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

Ok lets wait for 69xx series and see what it can do. Whether it has enough muscle to take on gf110 will be seen after its launch. The price points can also be judged then.

 

[aby geek]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

agreed. i too hope a 6870 or 5850 for 12k will be available after 6950 and 6970 launch on dec15.

570 must be above 25k , we never know about nvidia.

470 was launched at 23k.

a 6950 in the 18-21k bracket would be just too good.

by the way read something about a 6890 in q3 2011 , but i think that it will be among another family.

 

[mohiuddin]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

^^ might be in today's games but just wait for tesselation to become the norm whiich is very near. gtx 570 is not a 480 with a vapor cooler. Read the reviews properly and then post.

5870 is nowhere near the 570 so lets not talk of that. The modding is done for better efficiency. Nobody doubted the gtx 480 for its performance but for increased power and temps. That has been rectified and you have the gtx 570 which gives same performance and in some scenarios better than 480.

Talk about die size both amd and nvidia employ 40nm transistors but have different architectures. Fabing is lot more than adding transistors to sillicon die and have a lot of limitations so don't go for biased conclusions.

cilus is right...how many dayz they will survive.nd where i told that 5870 =570?!4 30~40w more consumption what d performance in comparison 5870...note that 570 is abt 1.5 yrs new..nd 1 more thing, 40nm fab is now yeilding high efficiency transistorz... And don't get me wrong.480 is weaker in somearea nd stronger in others..so give 480 a vapor cooler,then what?!almost nd almost par with 570 in every case. So my question is 'DOES GTX5xx WORTH It's name?'..

 

[Cilus]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

GTX 570 = GTX 480 Non Heating Edition.

 

[vickybat]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

@ mohiuddin
Who are you talking about surviving? Nvidia!! You mean amd/ati will finish nvidia! If thats gonna happen then amd will take over intel?? you might say that.... What do you mean by saying 570 is 1.5yrs new???

Look i tell you once more.. GTX 570 IS NOT A GTX 480 WITH A VAPOUR COOLER. and that is not in the picture now so its pointless to talk about gtx 480.
The thing is who gives better performance at a price point and then decider. I told you that we wait for 69xx series to launch and then continue with the talks.

What if 6950 ends up being expensive and performs less than 570? What will you say then?

So wait up until cayman launches and also gtx 570 pricing in india to debate further.

 

[asingh]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

The 69xx are going to be expensive, and will be expensive to run. These will be high end parts since they will employ the dual core design. Running these cards will be totally a different ball park. From what I see the 6950 would take on the new GTX570 and the upper end 69xx will head on with GTX 580. I doubt nVidia will release a dual GPU design, since they still do not have the thermals worked out for the Fermi.

Times are exciting for VGA cards, with releases happening so fast from both camps.

 

[Ishu Gupta]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

GTX 570 = GTX 480 Non Heating Edition.

Sums it up nicely.

 

[mohiuddin]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

@ mohiuddin
Who are you talking about surviving? Nvidia!! You mean amd/ati will finish nvidia! If thats gonna happen then amd will take over intel?? you might say that.... What do you mean by saying 570 is 1.5yrs new???

Look i tell you once more.. GTX 570 IS NOT A GTX 480 WITH A VAPOUR COOLER. and that is not in the picture now so its pointless to talk about gtx 480.
The thing is who gives better performance at a price point and then decider. I told you that we wait for 69xx series to launch and then continue with the talks.

What if 6950 ends up being expensive and performs less than 570? What will you say then?

So wait up until cayman launches and also gtx 570 pricing in india to debate further.

what if??no talking abt if....i told neither abt nvidia nor amd.i told abt today's gpus' survival frm both sides...nd '570 1.5yrs new' means 5870 is 1.5yrs old....nd why why don't u get it?i know that 5xx has zcull,extra polymorph engine,transistor re-distribution....nd bla bla bla bla...some fancy additions...r u going 2 say 'oooohh yea' 2 those colored features...or see some real world benches.performance wise 480=570...ok...again saying, give 480 a vapor cooler,adaptive fan control,hardware-based powerconsumption check....then what?....so we can nd will say '570,580gtx r good referance card but not good gpu'....ok!

 

[Ishu Gupta]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

^
Don't use SMS speak. Makes it hard to read.

And yeah, I agree with your point. It hardly beats GTX 480 in any of the benchmarks.

 

[vickybat]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

what if??no talking abt if....i told neither abt nvidia nor amd.i told abt today's gpus' survival frm both sides...nd '570 1.5yrs new' means 5870 is 1.5yrs old....nd why why don't u get it?i know that 5xx has zcull,extra polymorph engine,transistor re-distribution....nd bla bla bla bla...some fancy additions...r u going 2 say 'oooohh yea' 2 those colored features...or see some real world benches.performance wise 480=570...ok...again saying, give 480 a vapor cooler,adaptive fan control,hardware-based powerconsumption check....then what?....so we can nd will say '570,580gtx r good referance card but not good gpu'....ok!

Be clear and post properly. There is no bla bla & no ifs and buts. The world says that 570 is a good gpu. Who cares what you say?? In your so called benches all of the single core competitors(except gtx580) are beaten and the gtx 480 is EOL.
So where will you add the vapour cooler huh!!

Those bla bla fancy features makes the 570 a force to reckon with and prepares it to battle upcoming amd parts.

So it really doesn't matter what you say........"if we add a vapour cooler"..5870 1.5 yrs old... doesn't matter at all.


@ asingh

Yes buddy i totally agree what you say. These are exciting times and we buyers will be the ones getting the benefit from the ongoing war between the two camps.

 

[Piyush]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

so it looks like this to me

GTX 580 <-->HD 5970
GTX 570 <-->HD 5870
GTX 560 <-->HD 5850/HD 6870 (may be)

that means GTX 560 would be around 15k-16k when it hits the market

 

[mohiuddin]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

Be clear and post properly. There is no bla bla & no ifs and buts. The world says that 570 is a good gpu. Who cares what you say?? In your so called benches all of the single core competitors(except gtx580) are beaten and the gtx 480 is EOL.
So where will you add the vapour cooler huh!!

Those bla bla fancy features makes the 570 a force to reckon with and prepares it to battle upcoming amd parts.

So it really doesn't matter what you say........"if we add a vapour cooler"..5870 1.5 yrs old... doesn't matter at all.


@ asingh

Yes buddy i totally agree what you say. These are exciting times and we buyers will be the ones getting the benefit from the ongoing war between the two camps.

i don't know what d world u r talking about!if ur world is nvidiaforum & their blind friends&fans ,then it is ok...nvidia could add a vaporcooler with 480 and sell it as a 570...it would fulfil its purpose...they did those worthless-tricky-fancy features just 2 find the excuses of next-generation naming scheme.i don't think ,i belive amd will blow a big punch 2 these poor vapor-cooled,fancy-featured,powerhungry,large worthless monsters.i liked nvidia 2yrs back.but,their progressively increasing die and watt-usage pissed me off!!

And u asked me about which one's survival i was talking.i told about today's gpus .not pointing any company. And i said 'gtx570 is 1.5yr new' to mean that gtx 570 is based on about 1.5yr newer technologies than 5870. I don't wanna start fight becoz what the benefit? Both of them r after our money.isn't it?. I prefer amd coz they r now giving better solutions for price and as underdog, they will hold nvidia's price-horse..don't argue like a fan.

 

[aby geek]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

The 69xx are going to be expensive, and will be expensive to run. These will be high end parts since they will employ the dual core design. Running these cards will be totally a different ball park. From what I see the 6950 would take on the new GTX570 and the upper end 69xx will head on with GTX 580. I doubt nVidia will release a dual GPU design, since they still do not have the thermals worked out for the Fermi.

Times are exciting for VGA cards, with releases happening so fast from both camps.

nvidia dual gpu design was first to be announsed its gtx 595.

*www.thinkdigit.com/Gaming/Dual-GPU-flagships-shown-off-Nvidia-GeForce_5732.html

 

[vickybat]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

i don't know what d world u r talking about!if ur world is nvidiaforum & their blind friends&fans ,then it is ok...nvidia could add a vaporcooler with 480 and sell it as a 570...it would fulfil its purpose...they did those worthless-tricky-fancy features just 2 find the excuses of next-generation naming scheme.i don't think ,i belive amd will blow a big punch 2 these poor vapor-cooled,fancy-featured,powerhungry,large worthless monsters.i liked nvidia 2yrs back.but,their progressively increasing die and watt-usage pissed me off!!

And u asked me about which one's survival i was talking.i told about today's gpus .not pointing any company. And i said 'gtx570 is 1.5yr new' to mean that gtx 570 is based on about 1.5yr newer technologies than 5870. I don't wanna start fight becoz what the benefit? Both of them r after our money.isn't it?. I prefer amd coz they r now giving better solutions for price and as underdog, they will hold nvidia's price-horse..don't argue like a fan.

Look friend this is not about fanboism. Nvidia is just extracting more juice from its fermi architecture thats it. If amd can manage to blow a big punch, i would definitely appreciate that because we consumers will benefit if there is stiff competition among rivals.

They will try to out do each other, technologies will improve and prices will drop.... all in our benefit.

My words were totally unbiased as i myself own a radeon 5750 so i am not supporting nvidia or amd but telling the truth. You cannot predict whats gonna happen when new cards will launch but speculate or anticipate.

So i say to wait till cayman launches and then see what happens when both of them duel in the benchmarks.

 

[Cilus]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

Hey guys, stop fighting and wait for the 69XX release. vickybat, what mohiuddin was trying to say that HD 5870 has been released almost 1.5 Years back and still provide a very good performance to its price. All the new GTX 5XX series are having the benefit of 1.5 Years of advancement of GPU technologies and still they have high power consumption and very large die size.

Our expectation was little bit higher for the GTX 5XX series, that's all.

Lets see what is AMD's offering

 

[topgear]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

Can vx450 power a 6870 safely. I am asking cause i have that same rock solid psu

depending on your current config - yes.

so it looks like this to me

GTX 580 <-->HD 5970
GTX 570 <-->HD 5870
GTX 560 <-->HD 5850/HD 6870 (may be)

that means GTX 560 would be around 15k-16k when it hits the market

I would like to add one more : HD6850 ( OcEd) <--> HD 5850/HD 6870

 

[mohiuddin]

Re: All Graphics Cards related queries here.

I would like to add one more : HD6850 ( OcEd) <--> HD 5850/HD 6870

6870 is between 5850 and 5870.not par with 5850.

so it looks like this to me

GTX 580 <-->HD 5970
GTX 570 <-->HD 5870
GTX 560 <-->HD 5850/HD 6870 (may be)

that means GTX 560 would be around 15k-16k when it hits the market

5970>580gtx
570gtx>5870

Hey guys, stop fighting and wait for the 69XX release. vickybat, what mohiuddin was trying to say that HD 5870 has been released almost 1.5 Years back and still provide a very good performance to its price. All the new GTX 5XX series are having the benefit of 1.5 Years of advancement of GPU technologies and still they have high power consumption and very large die size.

Our expectation was little bit higher for the GTX 5XX series, that's all.

Lets see what is AMD's offering

thanx bro.u got my point.btw,it is pretty sure that 6970 will be of 1920sp and 6950 of ~1530sp.any new rumorz about these?