AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

OP
Skud

Skud

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

4.4 to 4.6 GHz with stock cooler. High end air coolers might take it further with lots of Vcore. But that's not really the point of this CPU. ;)

Having OC capability is good - down the line, you can extend your CPU's life by 1-2 years before going for the eventual upgrade.
 

coderunknown

Retired Forum Mod
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

the testing at anandtech was done under lab environment. for real life scenario a aftermarket cooler is a must but that way one can cross 4.5Ghz easily. We all know what crap cooler AMD & Intel ships with their processor.
 

sukesh1090

Adam young
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

@topgear,
7.3 GHz is piledriver's magic.:wink:
@ranjitsd,
every unit overclocks differently so you can't tell that it won't go 4.4GHz.some chips may not even cross 4.2GHz where as some reach 5 GHz and go beyond that for example the one in toppy's link that processor reached 5.1GHz on air.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

^^ +1 to that and most of the review units are cherrypicked ;-)

and coming to the overclokc, stock cooler and temps this is the best article one can read :
AMD A10-5800K Trinity Desktop APU Review - AMD A10-5800K Trinity Overclocking - Legit Reviews
 

ranjitsd

Journeyman
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

^^ +1 to that and most of the review units are cherrypicked ;-)

and coming to the overclokc, stock cooler and temps this is the best article one can read :
AMD A10-5800K Trinity Desktop APU Review - AMD A10-5800K Trinity Overclocking - Legit Reviews
"Putting a $100 CPU cooler on a $120 processor isn't something many will do, so we focused on air cooling today with factory CPU cooling solutions. "
 

sukesh1090

Adam young
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

nice article.here is what i got,
Pair the GIGABYTE GA-F2A85X-UP4 with the AMD A10-5800K and you're right around the $260 mark, $70 less than the cost of the Intel Core i7 3770K alone. That would be enough to pick up a 16GB kit of memory, or a 120GB-128GB SSD on sale!

Legit Bottom Line: The AMD A10-5800K will easily run your day to day applications without an issue and if you're looking to do some light gaming you're golden. The AMD A10-5800K featuring the AMD Radeon HD 7660D you will be able to run the latest DirectX 11 games with some of the eye candy turned on.

btw looks like even piledriver is taking hit from shared resources.so a big question mark on piledriver's performance.
 

Yoda

Journeyman
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

I live in Bangalore. Any idea when A10-5800K would be available in India ?

And is it OK to directly order the product online from AMD website / Amazon or should I wait for them till they are available in India.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

^^ I think you better wait till they available locally

"Putting a $100 CPU cooler on a $120 processor isn't something many will do, so we focused on air cooling today with factory CPU cooling solutions. "

they should have posted the cinebench result at 5Ghz speed ;-)

and coming to the stock cpu cooler and OC -- well, actually it's utter crap when it comes to OC as most people won't run the cpu in lab temps here for sure .. so anyone looking forward to OC this should add at-least a Rs.2-3k cpu cooler and the max limit one can hit should be around ~4.5 Ghz on air cooling - if one can hit more without overheating consider that as a nice bonus.

nice article.here is what i got,


btw looks like even piledriver is taking hit from shared resources.so a big question mark on piledriver's performance.

what's the use of 16GB memory Kit when for day to day apps and gaming even 8GB is enough ! a SSD drive should be a nice addition but that won't even boost a single fps isn games and why would anyone want to compare a 3770k and 5800k - they are both different and coming to the cpu only performance 3770k is a lot ahead - so people who needs cpu only performance or gamers with god budget will still consider a intel SB/IB cpu based rig Only people who will use the apu gfx core will find the top of the line Trinity APus most interesting - come on, they are paying not only for the CPU part but for the gfx core as well - so why not use it.

and you are right about the lack of the cpu performance - even 'old' pehom II X4 can churn out ~4.9 cinebench score at ~4.2Ghz where 3.67 with 4.6Ghz is still 'low'.
 

sukesh1090

Adam young
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

^^
you didn't get me bro:wink:,there are many people who build a rig for about 30-35k with i7 @17-19k and spend only 2-3k for graphics card.so whats the use of that rig when it won't give even 15 FPS at 1080p.so whats the use of spending that much on i7 when you don't use it.in these case 5800k and 6670 which will cost lot lesser than i7 itself and give you near to 60 FPS at 1080p.
btw PII 955 BE will cross 5.0 in cinebench when oced to 4.2-4.3GHz.:razz:but still piledriver's quad core(modules) is actually not equal to a phenom quad core.so i guess it will be better to compare phenom and PD based on their price.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

^^ AMD made phenom II history now no matter how good it was and talking about Trinity - it's cpu part is based on "not so efficient" PD core combined with mediocre gpu core - so basically instead of making a cpu/apu from the scratch they have just combined two products into same package .. now this may look like a successful formula but in the long run it won't succeed - Why and How ? Read on ..

when I used the word mediocre gfx core this is the reason : In real games 7660D can't even beat a low end gaming gu :
AMD Trinity for Desktops. Part 1: Graphics Core. Page 6 - X-bit labs
AMD Trinity for Desktops. Part 1: Graphics Core. Page 7 - X-bit labs

now it may play games at HD resolution but a gamer really should be concerned about this ? The Hybrid gfx may sound interesting but in reality it's not so great :
Review: AMD A10-5800K Dual Graphics evaluation - CPU - HEXUS.net - Page 3
GPU : F1 2011, Civilization V, Battlefield 3 - AMD A10-5800K et A8-5600K : APU desktop, deuxime ! - HardWare.fr

and a gamer always prefers to buy a discrete gpu and how well trinity performs when a high end discrete gpu is used :
AnandTech - AMD A10-5800K & A8-5600K Review: Trinity on the Desktop, Part 2
AMD Trinity for Desktops. Part 2: Socket FM2 Platform and AMD A10-5800K Processor Review. Page 7 - X-bit labs

now coming to the most important thing price per dollar/rs.

5800k costs $130 + HD6670 GDDr5 costs $85 = $215

now what we can get @ $ 215 from Intel and AMD gpu section :
HD6770 @ $ 90 and Core i3 2310 costs $125 = $215

so which platform will offer superior performance in games at the same price ? decide yourself and if Intel decides to reduce the price of it's core i3 line up then what will happen to Trinity ?
 

sukesh1090

Adam young
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

^^
:confused:still i am confused bro,because what i got from those links was that 5800k is still a better bet over intel i3 3000 and if i guess it right then there is some problem in drivers because in dirt 3 dual graphics showed an excellent 40% increase in FPS but in others it is going less than the FPS got when there is no crossfire so i guess it may be fixed with future driers.
 
OP
Skud

Skud

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

5800k costs $130 + HD6670 GDDr5 costs $85 = $215

now what we can get @ $ 215 from Intel and AMD gpu section :
HD6770 @ $ 90 and Core i3 2310 costs $125 = $215

so which platform will offer superior performance in games at the same price ? decide yourself and if Intel decides to reduce the price of it's core i3 line up then what will happen to Trinity ?


Where are you getting 6770 for just $5 more than a 6670? And if the prices are correct, people buying Trinity may easily opt for 6770 for just $5 extra. Platform wise AMD's chipsets are far superior to their Intel counterpart at similar price. Plus the upgrade path is better in FM2 if rumors are to be believed.

And if you are talking about solely gaming with a discrete card, in more than 90% games, the CPU hardly matters to your gameplay experience (not talking about fps only). Check the following for discrete GPU performance, here's a true gamer card, HD7870 and apart from Codemasters' games, the CPU hardly matters at 1080p and highest settings:-

AMD Trinity A10-5800K vs Intel Ivy Bridge i5-3470 - Discrete GPU Gaming Performance by VR-Zone.com

And those Anandtech results are funny to say the least, so with a discrete graphics card we are going to play at 1024x768, really? :lol:

But I do agree, if you run any software which need CPU muscle or power consumption is a factor, a low-end Core i3 or even a Pentium is the way to go. For general all-round usage and HTPC, Trinity is the way to go.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

Where are you getting 6770 for just $5 more than a 6670? And if the prices are correct, people buying Trinity may easily opt for 6770 for just $5 extra. Platform wise AMD's chipsets are far superior to their Intel counterpart at similar price. Plus the upgrade path is better in FM2 if rumors are to be believed.

ll the prices are from newegg and Trinity's gpu part can't be used to make a hybrid CF setup with HD6770 AFAIK.

And if you are talking about solely gaming with a discrete card, in more than 90% games, the CPU hardly matters to your gameplay experience (not talking about fps only). Check the following for discrete GPU performance, here's a true gamer card, HD7870 and apart from Codemasters' games, the CPU hardly matters at 1080p and highest settings:-

AMD Trinity A10-5800K vs Intel Ivy Bridge i5-3470 - Discrete GPU Gaming Performance by VR-Zone.com

And those Anandtech results are funny to say the least, so with a discrete graphics card we are going to play at 1024x768, really? :lol:

ok .. leave alone the result of anadtech but what about xbitlabs ?? and cpu does not matter much when it comes to HD gaming with good visual settings unlike gpu but sometime tha depends upon the games too and if cpu does not matter much then instead of getting a trinity APU one can opt for a similarly or even lower priced Intel cpu @ ~130 or below and a powerful discrete gpu .. sure they can opt for a Trinity APU and a powerful GPU too but then what will be the use of the APUs built in GPU core ? and why one would want to pay for it if they don't use it ?

But I do agree, if you run any software which need CPU muscle or power consumption is a factor, a low-end Core i3 or even a Pentium is the way to go. For general all-round usage and HTPC, Trinity is the way to go.

completely agree with this .. Trinity is more HTPC oriented but not so for a gaming pc .. if one can use the APUs gpu core and can be happy with it then fine .. even they can increase the performance by using a HD6670 ( but for how long it would be available ?? ) but if a person wants only gaming and running not so cpu hungry apps then a low end Intel core i3 cpu and a powerful AMD gpu is a more viable solution.
 
OP
Skud

Skud

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

ok .. leave alone the result of anadtech but what about xbitlabs ?? and cpu does not matter much when it comes to HD gaming with good visual settings unlike gpu but sometime tha depends upon the games too and if cpu does not matter much then instead of getting a trinity APU one can opt for a similarly or even lower priced Intel cpu @ ~130 or below and a powerful discrete gpu .. sure they can opt for a Trinity APU and a powerful GPU too but then what will be the use of the APUs built in GPU core ? and why one would want to pay for it if they don't use it ?


But the same is true for Intel CPUs as well, what am I doing with the graphics core of my 2600k? Nothing! I would have loved couple of more cores instead of that or just the CPU at a lesser price. ;)
 

sukesh1090

Adam young
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

@skud,
lol yeah why anadtech is using 1024X768 for game testing?:confused:

@topgear,
there are 50% of the gamers who buy descent graphics card but there are other 50% who usually buy a card <6670 and spend on more on processor and they use the system for gaming.so in these 50% cases i guess 5800k will prove worthier than the other similarly priced processor with its ability to hybrid with discrete one.yeah there is some driver problem i guess because in dirt showdown the dual graphics show very good improvement over single at 1080p but it gets less FPS than single card setup in batman arkham city so there must be some problem in arkham city or in driver.
btw one thing i observed was that the performance of 5800k's internal gpu improves when we shift from DX9 to DX11. have you observed this?
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

But the same is true for Intel CPUs as well, what am I doing with the graphics core of my 2600k? Nothing! I would have loved couple of more cores instead of that or just the CPU at a lesser price. ;)

For couple of more cores, socket 2011 would have been better for you. No point of complaining on baseless facts.
Things don't work out that way.

Besides, gpu isn't just for gaming only. You can put that graphics core of yours into good use by utilizing quick sync. Besides trinity gpu's also assist in open-cl computing and intel's haswell gpu promises the same.
Open-cl is a big step towards gpgpu and heterogeneous computing. So graphics cores in future iterations from both companies will significantly matter.
 
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topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

But the same is true for Intel CPUs as well, what am I doing with the graphics core of my 2600k? Nothing! I would have loved couple of more cores instead of that or just the CPU at a lesser price. ;)

just get a core i5 2550K ;-)

@skud,
lol yeah why anadtech is using 1024X768 for game testing?:confused:

@topgear,
there are 50% of the gamers who buy descent graphics card but there are other 50% who usually buy a card <6670 and spend on more on processor and they use the system for gaming.so in these 50% cases i guess 5800k will prove worthier than the other similarly priced processor with its ability to hybrid with discrete one.yeah there is some driver problem i guess because in dirt showdown the dual graphics show very good improvement over single at 1080p but it gets less FPS than single card setup in batman arkham city so there must be some problem in arkham city or in driver.
btw one thing i observed was that the performance of 5800k's internal gpu improves when we shift from DX9 to DX11. have you observed this?

DX11 gpus should perform better with DX11 titles ;-)

anyway, what I figured out is HD6670+5800k Hybrid CF = ~HD6750 - so getting a HD6770 / HD7770 with lesser or similarly priced cpu is much better and the way you explained the scenario translates that 5800K buyers should opt for a HD6670 at the same time to get all the benefits of Hybrid CF ? but for how long you think HD6670 will be available and what if the user upgrades to a better gfx card ?
 
OP
Skud

Skud

Super Moderator
Staff member
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

I think we are deviating from the main point here. Fact is you want the best IGP atm, you have to go for Trinity. Hybrid CF is really a bonus IMO, just like dual GPU it's not something many people will opt for. If you are going to buy a discrete card at the beginning, then things are different. But not always you have the budget to start with, so Trinity has its place IMO. And it's no slouch either, if you want to get a discrete graphics card down the line. And for a family PC, I can't see anything better than this.

The major problem that may hit Trinity harder is the price of the motherboard. Unless board maker's ramp up their game, it won't be viable. This image from Kitguru is disturbing, and Trinity may suffer a similar fate:-

*www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Where-should-FX-play-KitGuru-Question.jpg

For couple of more cores, socket 2011 would have been better for you. No point of complaining on baseless facts.
Things don't work out that way.

Besides, gpu isn't just for gaming only. You can put that graphics core of yours into good use by utilizing quick sync. Besides trinity gpu's also assist in open-cl computing and intel's haswell gpu promises the same.
Open-cl is a big step towards gpgpu and heterogeneous computing. So graphics cores in future iterations from both companies will significantly matter.


That's exactly my point. You have to see the whole picture, just picking up the CPU or GPU part in isolation is not going to do justice for the whole product.
 

sukesh1090

Adam young
re: AMD Trinity & Richland APU Discussion

trinity is for those who wants a good gaming pc which can play games at around 1366X768 or 1600X900 resolutions with smooth playable FPS pc at 20-25k. how is it possible to fit either a i5 which takes half of the budget or fx quad core which takes more than 1/3rd of the budget and above that you still need to add a graphics card.so how the person will build a descent gaming pc with these processors and gfx cards which alone takes most of the budget.about 1 year back we had athlon II and Phenom II but now they are not available so there is no other option.always we can't compare products purely in terms of performance we have to also look at the price and also see if there is any viable option at the same price range.
so lets build a pc for 25k,
HDD 500GB - 4.5k
RAM 4 GB - 1.5k
PSU 400-450W- 3k
cabinet - 1.5k
KB and mouse- 0.7k
mobo - 5 to 6k
UPS 600va - 1.5k
total - around 19k
a 2nd gen core i3 costs 7- 7.5k which shoots the budget by 1k and gaming performance 10 FPS in most games.so no gaming in this rig for sure.
so lets replace i3 with 5880k at 8k which shoots budget by 2k and gaming performance minimum 30 FPS in most of the games so you can game on.when comes to processing power i am damn sure that no one one will use this rig for video encoding or for photoshop etc., and the remaining browsing,office works you won't see any difference and when comes to winrar mostly you will save 20 secs or may be 1 min with i3 thats it.
 
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