AMD Llano (fusion) mobile discussion

utkarsh009

In the zone
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

@everybody: you know guys! i feel amd llano is much better than that i7 sandy bridge. i mean why spend extra on a lappy with discrete graphics card i its going to become obsolete in the same time and doesnt even perform much better .
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

^^ Nope its not. Sandybridge + discrete gpu is a lot powerful and performs much better but its expensive and does not belong in the same price category.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

^^ Offcourse it will but relatively. It won't be that much of a power hog. Around 25 watt more imo which is acceptable if more performance is required.

LLano's are aimed for entry level to lower midrange notebooks. They are well short of sandybridge cpu's as far as pure number crunching performance goes.
 

Jaskanwar Singh

Aspiring Novelist
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

@everybody: you know guys! i feel amd llano is much better than that i7 sandy bridge. i mean why spend extra on a lappy with discrete graphics card i its going to become obsolete in the same time and doesnt even perform much better .

yea right. those costly lappys are just show off. desktops at that price point will be much-100 better.

and llano beats sandy in performance in onboard gfx+cpu combo area according to that video. and its power cunsumption is much less. prices should be good. ideal for a laptop imo. (that is meant to be a **laptop**)

and other thing we will see when reviews come out.
 
Last edited:

thetechfreak

Legend Never Ends
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

whatever it is, no one beats AMD in value!

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

and its power cunsumption is
much less. prices should be good.
ideal for a laptop imo. (that is
meant to be a **laptop**)


hope they are 40k price band. Alienware probably have a profit margin of 150 percent
 

rajan1311

Padawan
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

^^ Nope its not. Sandybridge + discrete gpu is a lot powerful and performs much better but its expensive and does not belong in the same price category.

See buddy, you said it yourself, SB will be more expensive and power hungry :)
The whole point in integration of the CPU and GPU on to one die was to reduce costs and increase performance, I feel, these Llano give a much much better balance at the general public's sweet spot which is around 35k-45k. What say? :)

The sad part is, we are still far away from launch and seeing how long zacate is taking to reach india, its going to be long till we get these in india...I am guessing around Sept at best...

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

They are well short of sandybridge cpu's as far as pure number crunching performance goes.

I would never buy a laptop if that was my need :p
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

See buddy, you said it yourself, SB will be more expensive and power hungry :)
The whole point in integration of the CPU and GPU on to one die was to reduce costs and increase performance, I feel, these Llano give a much much better balance at the general public's sweet spot which is around 35k-45k. What say? :)

The sad part is, we are still far away from launch and seeing how long zacate is taking to reach india, its going to be long till we get these in india...I am guessing around Sept at best...
I would never buy a laptop if that was my need :p

Yes i agree with you buddy. They are aimed at mainstream users and give a very good balance between performance and power efficiency.

But i disagree with people comparing it with sandybridge cpu's. A llano apu can no way beat a sandy+ discrete gpu. But its better than the sandy on-die gpu and thats exactly what that video says.

A person going for a high performance laptop say at a budget of 50-60k will stick with sandybridge+ discrete gpu from nvidia or amd which will blow llano away in performance.

But llano will dominate in 30-40k market if priced right and is better than sandybridge notebooks without discrete gpu and gives better multimedia performance.
 

rajan1311

Padawan
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

I agree with you vick, so lets see :

~40k lappy - Llano
~60k lappy - SB+Discrete

right?

But most of us indians mainly buy laptops of sub 45~50k, dont see TDF, but people in general.... :)

Oh btw, when are SB laptops coming to india? friend needs a high end laptop ... :)
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

^^ Agreed again and they can definitely choose llano for better graphics.

But i guess you can still find sandy+discrete laptops in the 50-60k price point. They have a strong cpu line up.

Llano even has the potential to draw 30k laptop buyers and definitely can offer something at that price point.

offtopic- buddy what happened to your pc?
 

coderunknown

Retired Forum Mod
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

@everybody: you know guys! i feel amd llano is much better than that i7 sandy bridge. i mean why spend extra on a lappy with discrete graphics card i its going to become obsolete in the same time and doesnt even perform much better .

can AMD Llano beat the intel spec lappy coupled with 2 GTX560M? i think you got the point i want to highlight.

LLano's are aimed for entry level to lower midrange notebooks. They are well short of sandybridge cpu's as far as pure number crunching performance goes.

ezxkatly. what AMD proved from the slides is, it have made AMD quadcore A8 as powerful as an Phenom II X6 (rough idea) & can beat a SB when it comes to multithreading (X6's strength) but what if someone wants to run only 1 game at a time without any bg task? than?

for now its nothing but an AMD trailer. only time will tell if the movie will become a hit, super hit or the exact opposite. but depends on the manufacturers too.

whatever it is, no one beats AMD in value!

gamers are always gamers. what they need is pure performance. always. they find value in an item if its able to perform according to their needs, even if it cost 100k. now for those, APU mayn't be the best choice & neither will they game on the IGP.

The whole point in integration of the CPU and GPU on to one die was to reduce costs and increase performance, I feel, these Llano give a much much better balance at the general public's sweet spot which is around 35k-45k. What say? :)

yes, 35-40k will hit the sweet spot. a good balance between power & graphics performance. but the sad part is, from what i have seen manufacturers have done with Zacate in some cases (E350 in a 15.6"). makes me think AMD's success is more based on OEM's hand rather than their own APU performance. if Sony, Dell, Acer, Asus & HP releases some 14" with light config but 4-5hrs battery life and price the whole thing at 30-32k, AMD will be back into the laptop game with a bang. also powerful gaming machines should be released & advertised well.

but what manufacturers shouldn't do is launch lappy with cheap quality or cheap looking chassis & fit them in a 15.6" screen & no GPU or a lowend GPU. this will spoil the party for AMD & for the OEM themselves. this have seen with AMD's current lineup & anandtech have reviewed some laptops (Phenom II based) that just can't get the recommendation cap even with a super low pricetag mainly cause they look & feel cheap.

I would never buy a laptop if that was my need :p

powerful or powersaver, a desktop will always win the enthusiast's heart. well until that techie turns out to be a girl.

But i disagree with people comparing it with sandybridge cpu's. A llano apu can no way beat a sandy+ discrete gpu. But its better than the sandy on-die gpu and thats exactly what that video says.

true. & lastly i don't want to see any of these laptops ship with a lowend card.

A person going for a high performance laptop say at a budget of 50-60k will stick with sandybridge+ discrete gpu from nvidia or amd which will blow llano away in performance.

AMD llano may win more business laptop designs. specially those aimed at non-gaming needs. say with Quadro or FirePro GPUs. they'll love its multithreaded performance & battery life.

But most of us indians mainly buy laptops of sub 45~50k, dont see TDF, but people in general.... :)

and they always say "i want Intel only & Nvidia 1Gb grafix card". i hope they know what they are talking about.
 

Jaskanwar Singh

Aspiring Novelist
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

If a 5650m = llano graphics in performance and if these are around 40k, then my dear friends what will be the fun of spending 60k above on sandy i7s. U expect them to be paired with a 460m or 560m.? Those price range notebooks have nothing but out of these mostly -
GT435M, GT350M, GT335M. (and the funny thing is these are paired with 3d gogles sometimes). Some notebooks of this price range have oldies like GTS250M.
And to tell u all 5650m is equal to a 435 and better than rest approx.

Talk mainly of indian consumers who hardly spend 100k on desktops let alone lappys.

And those which have good ones like 460m cost 120k. Whats this? U think its feasible to spend on them.? When u can get a 580gtx pc at that price which will blow them away.!
And thats why i feel these costly laps are show off for ladies!
 

utkarsh009

In the zone
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

the point here is that who needs a lappy for playing crysis at maximum settings? or those games which have a very high requirement. a true gamer always has a desktop which can be customized to improve gaming performance. tell me, will you ever opt to buy alienware m15x for 180k or will you buy a desktop? you can always play casual games on llano and do multitasking with ease at a very cheap price . you get the correct balance with llano. and mobility of a laptop is lost if it doesnt have a good battery life. this is why most people also look at battery life when they buy a lappy!!!!!!
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

If a 5650m = llano graphics in performance and if these are around 40k, then my dear friends what will be the fun of spending 60k above on sandy i7s. U expect them to be paired with a 460m or 560m.? Those price range notebooks have nothing but out of these mostly -
GT435M, GT350M, GT335M. (and the funny thing is these are paired with 3d gogles sometimes). Some notebooks of this price range have oldies like GTS250M.
And to tell u all 5650m is equal to a 435 and better than rest approx.

Talk mainly of indian consumers who hardly spend 100k on desktops let alone lappys.

And those which have good ones like 460m cost 120k. Whats this? U think its feasible to spend on them.? When u can get a 580gtx pc at that price which will blow them away.!
And thats why i feel these costly laps are show off for ladies!

Good point jas. But i think the newer sandybridge laptops will come with a revised lineup of gpu's. Nvidia 5 series and amd 6 series are the favorites to be paired alongside a sandy. Especially mobile gpu's like 6670m and above will beat a 5650m class gpu out of the water when paired with sandybridge.

Now a combination of this is very powerful and can be considered as a desktop replacement and if priced at 50-60k or finds its place lets say in dell's XPS lineup, then it will be one heck of a seller.

Talking about pricing of llano, i think it won't come cheap ( just a speculation) and i came with this conclusion after seeing the prices of bobcat based e350 barebones which is touching almost 9k. So aggresive pricing will decide the fate of Llano or else most users will blindly jump the intel bandwagon and i seriously think the jump will be worth if sandy will be paired with a discrete mobile gpu.
 

Jaskanwar Singh

Aspiring Novelist
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

actually vickybat there is only 6650m. no 6670m. and 6650m also almost same as 5650m :-D
so until and unless some sandy notebooks are paired with GT540 or even better mobility 57** or 67**m at 60k~ i dont think spending more is required if llano is 40k.

but they can never be desktop replacements as even a GT240 is faster than those above mentioned.

but i found 2 very good deals -
Msi GX660 Gaming laptop
Msi GX 640 Gaming Laptop
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

^^ Wow those are good deals. Imagine a sandybridge cpu replacing the older arrandale cpu's in the same pricepoint. The deal will get sweeter.
 

saswat23

Human Spambot
AMD's Llano Could Heat up Chip War With Intel

The chip war will heat up as Advanced Micro Devices prepares PC processors to rival Intel's Sandy Bridge chips, which have already
started appearing in laptops,
analysts said this week.
Intel's new Core i3, i5 and i7 chips are now available in consumer laptops such as Dell's Inspiron R-
series models, which were introduced on Thursday and priced starting at US$499.
AMD, meanwhile, plans to release new A- series chips, which are code-named Llano, for consumer laptops and desktops in the second quarter.
The A-series processors could intensify the chip battle between Intel and AMD as consumers evaluate laptops based on price
and performance. The Intel and AMD chips both combine a CPU and graphics processor inside a single chip, but have unique strengths, analysts said.
Intel's Sandy Bridge chips are generally considered to provide better CPU performance and have a capable graphics processor, but PCs with AMD's Llano are thought to better handle graphics-intensive tasks.
Laptops with A-series chips could be priced above $499, higher than laptops and netbooks carrying AMD's low-end E-Series and C-Series chips, which started shipping earlier this year, an AMD spokeswoman said.
But the pricing of laptops will ultimately depend on PC makers, thespokeswoman added.
The A-series chips will include between two and four cores, according to the company's road map.
Beyond price, laptop selection will likely depend on the type of PC a user is looking for, said Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst at Insight 64. If a buyer needs to
run programs that stress CPUs they may prefer laptops with Sandy Bridge, which has a CPU core that is faster and more
advanced than the CPU in AMD's Llano, which is based on an architecture that is six to seven years old.
"That's not even up for debate,"
Brookwood said.
Intel's new Core i3, i5 and i7 chips can render high-definition video and are good for mainstream gaming, Brookwood said.
Analysts said that Intel has looked beyond the graphics processor, implementing instruction sets to process 3D graphics and accelerators in the integrated chips to quickly decode and encode video.
But AMD's Llano will have a better graphics engine and offer a superior movie playback and gaming experience, Brookwood said.
Llano's integrated graphics processor supports DirectX 11, which is a set of tools that help generate more realistic images when playing games on PCs running Windows 7. Most of the recent high-end games released support DirectX 11, Brookwood said.
Intel's Sandy Bridge chips support a version of DirectX 10, which puts
it almost a generation behind AMD.
AMD's superior graphics capabilities could also give it a price advantage, Brookwood
said. PCs based on Intel's Sandy Bridge chips may require a dedicated graphics card to handle high-end graphics, which
could increase the price of laptops.
But few users need high-end graphics, and the consumer market is trending to lower-
end laptops where price matters more and graphics matter less, said Dean McCarron, principal analyst at Mercury Research.
"If you want to compare CPU versus GPU performance ... that depends on the price you are willing to pay," McCarron said.
McCarron said he expects AMD to use Llano's powerful graphics core as a means to gain market share from Intel, as opposed to changing its pricing model. AMD typically has a price advantage over Intel, with laptops selling for comparably lower prices.
AMD lost market share to Intel in the fourth quarter last year, according to an IDC study released in February. Intel had an 80.8
percent processor market share, compared to 80.5 percent in the fourth quarter of 2009. AMD's market share was 18.9 percent, declining from a 19.5 percent
share the previous year.
Graphics chips are being increasingly used in high-performance systems for parallel
execution of some scientific, math and video applications. But many programs for desktop operating systems like Windows have been written for processing on multicore CPUs.
Intel may be "overweight" on CPUs, but AMD is making a bigger bet on graphics as computing becomes more visual, said Godfrey Cheng, director of product marketing at AMD's client technology unit.
A lot of the Web browser processing goes through a CPU, but the latest versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Google's Chrome and Mozilla's Firefox offload tasks such as Internet video to the graphics
processor.
AMD is also providing tools for
programmers to write applications for execution on graphics processors, Cheng said. AMD's graphics processors also
support OpenCL, a programming standard for parallel execution of tasks across multicore CPUs and GPUs.

But graphics processors are also known to
be power-hungry, which could hurt laptop
battery life. To tackle the issue, AMD has
added some power-saving features such as
power gating and the ability to shut down
blocks of the graphics processor.
"We're giving [consumers] more power,
capability to process videos," Cheng said.
Intel spokesman Dave Salvator said that
rather than talking CPU versus GPU, it is
more useful to look at what people do
regularly with PCs. Sandy Bridge chips are
good for mainstream gaming, and have
advanced power-saving and security
features.
"If you're an enthusiast gamer, then Intel
Core i7 with a high-end discrete 3D card is
the right solution for high-end gaming,"
Salvator said.
AMD may have an aging CPU in Llano, but a
price advantage and a better graphics
processor could help it compete with Intel's
Sandy Bridge, Mercury's McCarron said. AMD
will provide a much-needed upgrade to the
CPU to the new Bulldozer core next year,
but consumers may not wait.
"Upgrade when you feel the need to
upgrade," McCarron said. "If you wait for
[new] technology, you'll be waiting
continuously."
 

SlashDK

MV VIP to the MAX
Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video

Talking about pricing of llano, i think it won't come cheap ( just a speculation) and i came with this conclusion after seeing the prices of bobcat based e350 barebones which is touching almost 9k. So aggresive pricing will decide the fate of Llano or else most users will blindly jump the intel bandwagon and i seriously think the jump will be worth if sandy will be paired with a discrete mobile gpu.

I believe 9k is the pricing only in India. As more manufacturers bring e350 to Indian market, it is bound to get cheaper. In the US it costs $100-125.
 
OP
skeletor

skeletor

Chosen of the Omnissiah
Re: AMD Llano discussion

These low-TDP boards are always expensive. Dual Core Intel Atom also retails around the same price.

Llano will be cheap and will use Socket FM1. Not AM3+.
 
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