Debates about the Economy, Politics, Religion, and everything under the sun

[rishitells]

@rishitells

people treat these idols as gods and bathe them with milk and whatnot if god is everywhere then why treat them with such amount of respect?

I don't want to engage in Polytheism vs Monotheism debate, as I didn't start one. But what problem do you have with Idol worshipers? As @raaabo said in the debate-

Well said. For me, it doesn't matter what you believe, so long as you are good, harm no one, help those in need and are willing to learn more points of view. Whether you pray, meditate, introspect, do scientific tests, or not, and whether you do it at home in a mosque, church, temple, etc is irrelevant.

Let anyone worship Idols if he/she wants. If they are happy by doing so, why be a hurdle in their happiness? They might be seeing God in an Idol, what's wrong with that? Don't we put the portraits of our deceased ancestors in home and respect them? Those people may have the same love for the Idol, what's the problem?

 

[amjath]

- 'Prohibition of worship of any other God except Allah', or doing 'Idol Worship Prohibition'.
- Six Articles of Faith, one of them being the Judgement Day
- Concept of believer and non-believer.

-Followers of Islam should follow the creator not the creation. Idol is a creation. Period
-An employee fears his manager and does his job correctly so that he doesn't want lose his salary. Likewise a muslim should have something to fear that's judgement day, so that he does his job correctly and wisely here

I consider Internet as the God of knowledge in today’s world, where all you need to know about virtually anything is comprehensively available.

If I lie on the internet, Will u believe.

 

[rishitells]

@rishitells,it is obviously clear to me that you are not worth my time so this will be my last reply to you as per my rules.perhaps next time you might want to post some links/references to those scholars you talked to for the sake convincing others(not me now obviously) & i hope that they are not someone whose name search in google does not include a single link to a reputable english national daily(indian or international) unlike *www.google.co.in/search?q=Amina+Wadud

edit:last advice from me:whether research or simple debate on a technological forum there is always a difference between creditable & dime-a-dozen sources on internet.no matter what the fad is when it comes to credibility the good old paper media still rules(read newspapers,libraries,university commissioned studies etc).

Is it a 10 year old kid whining after he couldn't prove himself right, so attack personally and question person credentials and reputation? Do I have to be Vivekananda or Amina Wadud in order to debate here? If you are so fond of reputable persons, then please go to this link too. This person is definitely more reputable than the one you told me about-

Taslima Nasrin

I presented basic facts of Islam in plain English and still your are having problem with that. What can I do? You should not debate here in fight club bro, because as the section tag line says-

The Debate Zone. Sensitive and controversial topics will be discussed here — only the thick-skinned should enter

And I don't your skin is thick enough to debate on such topics, as you are continuously personalizing the debate. Good bye, nice to see you.

 

[ico]

If I lie on the internet, Will u believe.

^ hehe. good one.

 

[Faun]

And Indians have a greater opportunity be cause they live in a secular state .

There are better places to live.

@amjath
It's a personal question. But let's assume that you have a sister and she fell in love with someone from other religion.

Would you be ok if she leaves her faith or if the guy refuses to follow Islam or lets say her children are allowed to follow any faith they like once they understand the life better ?

Again, it's not compulsory to answer it.

 

[rishitells]

-Followers of Islam should follow the creator not the creation. Idol is a creation. Period
-An employee fears his manager and does his job correctly so that he doesn't want lose his salary. Likewise a muslim should have something to fear that's judgement day, so that he does his job correctly and wisely here

So at least you admitted the points. But remember, that you can only follow one creator i.e. Allah, and you are prohibited from worshiping any other Gods as written in the library- Allah is the one and true God with no partner or equal.

I can do my job without fear, correctly and wisely, with freedom and open-mind not closed by belief but open by wonder.

If I lie on the internet, Will u believe.

I have the capability of spotting a lie. On the Internet, a lie can be spotted with a single Google search. I don't believe anything unless I cross-check it maximum times possible, from maximum possible sources, and books too. And BTW I have a whole library of reference books and study material, scriptures and everything to refer, so I need not to worry about lies. You do, probably.

 

[whitestar_999]

just as a note to those here who might take my posts negatively i once engaged in an online debate with someone over a question of whether the gene technology holds answers to all of mankind's diseases which i was against & posted many arguments finally ending with posting a medical study done by one of the biggest US hospitals & by a doctor with degrees from top most medical schools in my support & people still refused to agree with me.around the same time in another debate involving a geographical question i posted a statement directly from the study of a scientist published in TIMES magazine & still same refusal to agree with me.since that time i have stopped posting such thoroughly researched posts because it is simply not worth it.internet for most of the time is not meant for serious debates on issues like religion,science or economy.

 

[amjath]

So at least you admitted the points. But remember, that you can only follow one creator i.e. Allah, and you are prohibited from worshiping any other Gods as written in the library- Allah is the one and true God with no partner or equal.

I can do my job without fear, correctly and wisely, with freedom and open-mind not closed by belief but open by wonder.

Its my belief that Allah is my God
Its Christian belief that Jesus is their God etc etc
What is ur problem in it? I don't know.
If we believe and fell into into ditch or land on a garden. Why are you jealous.

A job will always be reviewed by someone or the other that is what i meant. The followers of Islam think their job will be reviewed

 

[rishitells]

since that time i have stopped posting such thoroughly researched posts because it is simply not worth it.internet for most of the time is not meant for serious debates on issues like religion,science or economy.

I strongly disagree. If Internet isn't, when what is? On internet you cannot present a wrong fact, or statistic, for you will be caught in second lying. Internet is a boon for the debaters and discussions, as they don't have to take up a book, read 10-12 pages and then coming back to the debate.

Its my belief that Allah is my God
Its Christian belief that Jesus is their God etc etc
What is ur problem in it? I don't know.
If we believe and fell into into ditch or land on a garden. Why are you jealous.

A job will always be reviewed by someone or the other that is what i meant. The followers of Islam think their job will be reviewed

Hmm.. I can worship Krishna, Rama, Allah, Jesus at the same time without thinking that in the Scriptures of my tradition it is not allowed to worship any other God except my one.. I visit Mosques, Gurudwaras, Churches and Temples. I consider Myself as My God, too, without wondering if my scripture prohibits this or not. I can adore a Krishna statue as well as a Chadar at a Dargah, without thinking that I have to follow Monotheism or Polytheism according to my Scripture or Holy Book. I can live my life as I want, without worrying about the Scripture guidelines, unlike the ardent followers of organized religions.

Hope you got what I want to say.

 

[amjath]

I strongly disagree. If Internet isn't, when what is? On internet you cannot present a wrong fact, or statistic, for you will be caught in second lying. Internet is a boon for the debaters and discussions, as they don't have to take up a book, read 10-12 pages and then coming back to the debate.

Hmm.. I can worship Krishna, Rama, Allah, Jesus at the same time without thinking that in the Scriptures of my tradition it is not allowed to worship any other God except my one.. I visit Mosques, Gurudwaras, Churches and Temples. I consider Myself as My God, too, without wondering if my scripture prohibits this or not. I can adore a Krishna statue as well as a Chadar at a Dargah, without thinking that I have to follow Monotheism or Polytheism according to my Scripture or Holy Book. I can live my life as I want, without worrying about the Scripture guidelines, unlike the ardent followers of organized religions.

Hope you got what I want to say.

If u think u dont want to listen to some guidelines, then u should have not listen to ur mom's guidelines when u r a kid. Now u grow urself and say i wont listen to anyone.
Driving on a road has some set of guidelines, try not to follow it.
Your body has some set of guidelines like drinking water, eating food, taking bath. There is no necessity that u have to follow.

Religion has guidelines, if u dont follow it neither the guidelines aren't going to change nor it will change you.

But so called guidelines are clear that go and poke at everyone saying that I have freedom of everything

 

[CommanderShawnzer]

Spoiler

I strongly disagree. If Internet isn't, when what is? On internet you cannot present a wrong fact, or statistic, for you will be caught in second lying. Internet is a boon for the debaters and discussions, as they don't have to take up a book, read 10-12 pages and then coming back to the debate.



Hmm.. I can worship Krishna, Rama, Allah, Jesus at the same time without thinking that in the Scriptures of my tradition it is not allowed to worship any other God except my one.. I visit Mosques, Gurudwaras, Churches and Temples. I consider Myself as My God, too, without wondering if my scripture prohibits this or not. I can adore a Krishna statue as well as a Chadar at a Dargah, without thinking that I have to follow Monotheism or Polytheism according to my Scripture or Holy Book. I can live my life as I want, without worrying about the Scripture guidelines, unlike the ardent followers of organized religions.

Hope you got what I want to say.

OK.So you wrote such a big Ramayan with such Long-ass posts just to prove Agnosticism is superior?
Such a waste of time,energy and bandwidth and grey cells i think


See,This a very Boss-ly way to say "My belief is superior"

Spoiler

I'm Catholic so
*4.bp.blogspot.com/-j-Li5vlVdj0/UA76XPJ7_KI/AAAAAAAAAyc/aJJuJub6jic/s320/come+at++me+bro.jpg

You could use something similar,AND get lol/troll points

 

[rishitells]

@CommanderShawnzer

It's funny what you interpreted from my post. It was in flow of debate on religious intolerance, where I advocated freedom instead of intolerance, such as prohibition of worship. And BTW, I have no belief as belief can be shattered by logical conviction. I am not trying to put anything superior over other. Kindly do not pull statements out of context.

I don't want you to come to me bro, I have my own life to live. Live your life the way you want.

 

[Anorion]

2. Life originated in Africa? Are you still living in the delusions of "Evolution theory" and "believe blindly" that that your ancestors have "Evolved" from some apes? This is been debunked in this forum alone, where evolution has been reduced to joke in international community and challenged by the likes of ID/Genesis etc and modern science by quantum mechanics (Read Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra). So when exactly did "life originate" in Africa may his highness tell me? I don't even know if you are qualified enough (not qualifications) to talk to me about "science" for you might not take the questions I might put forward to you.

hmm maybe the vedic society guessed at hereditary characteristics, Arjuna, with the permission of Krishna was an informed geneticist (not sure which varna that profession would come under)

The actions of a vaisya born of his own nature are agriculture, cow protection and trade; also the actions of a sudra born of his own nature consists in service to brahmanas, ksatriyas and vaisyas

O Krishna, when unrighteousness is predominant then women in the family become degraded and from the degradation of womanhood O Krishna; undesirable progeny comes into existence.

problem is there is no scope for training or learning, or even realization, you are born with it. question still stands, why only women can be degraded and not men?

fortunately we have things like mitochondrial DNA, that allow us to reasonably guess that all modern humans came from africa, even if we borrowed technology, language and traditions from earlier humans, who also btw, came out of Africa

*i.imgur.com/TEI7U1y.jpg

 

[ico]

Re: Indian Economy Going down

heh. Even the Abrahamites refuse to believe that humans evolved from primates.

 

[CommanderShawnzer]

OT: @Anorion : "Holy Paladin of Legitness" Hmmm....
I feel like i've seen that somewhere

 

[whitestar_999]

mitochondrial DNA is one of the most basic principle of finding evolutionary links especially in humans because it is inherited only from mother.in fact there was a article related to this concept recently in newspaper:
DNA test reveals Prince William's Indian ancestry - Times Of India
also just for a quick read:
Mitochondrial Eve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ico]

Raaabo misphrased a bit. Wanted to say something else but wrote something else.

"Life" didn't originate from Africa. Homo sapiens sapiens speciated there. Atleast most evidence suggests so.

I dunno in which Yuga it was.

 

[Anorion]

hmm. Homo sapiens sapiens were there in Satyuga. 5000 years of Kali Yuga has passed. So, that makes it: (432000 * 2) + (432000 * 3) + (432000 * 4) + (5000) = 3893000 years. Approxiamately 4 million years ago.

4 million years is the divergence point between other apes and humans

The splitting date between human and chimpanzee lineages is placed around 4-8 million years ago during the late Miocene epoch

src

we still had loads of body hair then

 

[ico]

4 million years is the divergence point between other apes and humans

src

we still had loads of body hair then

yup. I'm completely aware of that. You don't need to cite wiki. Not the diveregence point of "Homo sapiens sapiens" though. We've had more ancestors in between.

But surely the newly speciated human ancestors were not this intelligent back then so called Sat Yuga. The "all perfect" concept which was being proposed in this thread.

oh yea, we sure were more intelligent. At least didn't believe in written and historical bull$hit. Just failed at getting some answers. Tried to find answers over the period of time. Wrote something. That's what happens - trying to pass on "knowledge" onto the next generation until they come up with something better. Whether you look into "modern science" or the "pseudo-science of conciousness".

Reason should prevail.

 

[mediator]

problem is there is no scope for training or learning, or even realization, you are born with it. question still stands, why only women can be degraded and not men?

You have already disconnected the verse 1.40 with the earlier ones and the immediate ones alone. How are you going to understand the riddle of Bhagvad-Geet with such a mindset and lack of memory to be able to retain all the 18 chapters and understand it as one conversation?

Moreover, like I said understand Arjun's dilemma, confusion and sadness here. I guess you should stop here and read nice quotes from Paulo Coelho instead. That seems to be the holy scripture for the modern day guys.

Anyways, the problem with the modern science researches is that they keep on changing with time and those who actively propogate as sources of their knowledge will have to redo as that research changes. In Hindi it is like a proverb : dhobi ka kutta na ghar ka na ghaat ka.

Its a proverb before you think I'm abusing anyone.

Rethinking “Out of Africa” | DNAeXplained – Genetic Genealogy
The Minoans were Caucasian: DNA debunks longstanding theory that Europe's first advanced culture was from Africa | Mail Online
and then you have debunks on ancient aliens, people came from mars theory and it keeps on getting even more boring. Just give it 10 years and I bet half of the theories and 'researches' will change already! Yes, you can say that this how modern science works and progresses.

Like I have already stated, bharatvarsh was the entire world and not just present India. If you are going by the migration structure, then the first question automatically comes is : What was the structure of continents at the time of Mahabharat alone? Or is it our assumption that it was the same as today?