550 Ti or 5770

AcceleratorX

Youngling
Whatever you say above, lets see the current market condition in India. The cheapest 550Ti I found online is close to 8k, the Sapphire 6790 can be had for some 150-200 bucks less, and arguably performs better than 550Ti. In comparison, the 6770 can be found within 7k in most of the places, sometimes as low as 6.5k.

At these price point, whatever performance advantages the 550Ti has over its competitors, if any, simply vaporize. In simple terms, you have 7k, get a 6770, you have 1k more, get a 6790. The 550Ti is just not priced properly as far as Indian market is concerned.

Well, I agree, but when I bought my 550 Ti, 6790 was costing more, maybe because it was just released at that point. Of course market conditions keep changing. Considering current prices, the 6790 is probably better, and the 6770 is an old classic in any case. In any case, Sapphire's Radeon cards are among the cheapest, and given my experience with my 5770, I would probably not recommend this brand again. Better to pay a little more and go for an Asus or MSI.

I just wanted to clear the air a little because everyone was saying that the 550 Ti was crap, well, it may be a little displaced but it's certainly not crap. The reason for it's initial low performance was that it utilized a new memory controller that is not there in any other GeForce 5xx product. I think NVIDIA is still putting in optimizations for this and we will probably see more implementations of this new design in the GeForce 600 series.

A potentially big problem with the 6790 (and the GeForce GTX 460) is that most cards require two 6-pin power connectors (AFAIK so far only PowerColor's 6790 cards do not require two 6-pin connectors). Many people buying these mid-range cards will probably not have two 6-pin connectors to spare, having to resort to using converters and the like instead (this is not optimal). On the other hand, the HD 6850 does not need this and thus presents an excellent mid-range option for the price given the type of PC it will be put on.

These are just additional things to consider apart from purely performance and/or features, but it does seem to me that each card below the 6850 has its own unique drawbacks :)
 
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Skud

Super Moderator
Staff member
Agree with your reasoning of two PCI-e connectors. And MSI 6770 is actually the cheapest one @6.5k at Golcha.

Although I am yet to face any problem with my Sapphire card, what happened with yours?
 

Cilus

laborare est orare
Re: 550 Ti or 5770o

Despite the two PCI E 6 pin connector, still HD 6790 requires 104W power in full load, compared to the 140W load power consumption of GTS 550 Ti
and also performs better than it.
And I didn't get it why using a converter to get another 6 pin connector for the PSUs, not having 2 6 pin connectors is inconvenient. The converter is bundled with the card and if the PSU is capable enough to deliver the required power, it does not matter whether it has 2 six connectors or using converter to power the card.
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
@Skud:

My Sapphire HD 5770 developed the D4000 LED issue, i.e. thermal diode going crazy even though there is no overheating happening. From what I could see on the internet, only Sapphire (the exact same one I had) and HIS models have this problem. There are a variety of fixes, from applying more thermal conducting paste to using a better aftermarket cooler, but in some cases the card was just plain bugged - mine was one such case. The display would go black after 15-30 minutes and the D4000 LED light would come on.

I gave it for RMA and have collected the repaired/replaced unit (I don't know whether Aditya infotech repairs or replaces). In the meantime, however, I got myself a 550 Ti and the system is running fine, so I'm in no mood to check the 5770 at this time. Will however keep the card for possible use in building a PC from spare parts I got.

But given the frequency of this issue, it seems that many Sapphire cards of that particular PCB revision has this problem. It was a non-reference PCB design, should have known better.

I used to think Sapphire was the gold standard for ATI graphics cards, but when a card develops an issue like that in 1.5 years, you don't get a good impression. My old GeCube HD 3870 (reference design) still works without any issues whatsoever and it's pushing 3.5 years now.......Same with some old Asus cards.

The last cards I remember developing issues within two years were XFX ones. Since this is a common issue with that particular model, I'd say Sapphire (and HIS, since it seems they also have the issue) cheaped out. Not to mention Teapo capacitors on the PCB of the sapphire card, which are known to be lower grade components. Now even lower grade components will last long enough that you will never see a problem (electronic components are generally designed for heavy duty use), but it is an indication that the company cuts corners.

At the time I got the card, I didn't know better. Now that I had a good look, I'd say Sapphire should not be the no.1 brand to consider for ATI - they still make good cards but I think most people will be better off with an Asus or MSI.

Take my Palit GTX 550 Ti, for example: Compared to the Sapphire card, Palit skimps heavily on the bundle and cables. But the card has good OS-CON capacitors. It at least gives a good impression. What I can say is that Palit's fan blades are thin - if something gets stuck there or you pull the wrong way while cleaning, you could break them. Other than that the build quality is solid and I can say a bit better than the Sapphire. Let's see how long it lasts.

With graphics cards, you get what you pay for - the extra for the MSI, Gigabyte or Asus is well worth it in most cases (unless you know to take good care of your cards and really want to save some cash).

For what it's worth: I've not seen anything about this issue happening with 6770 models, and my issue may have been bad luck as I bought a specific model that had this bug, but the Teapo capacitors, PCB flexing, heatsink assembly (again this depends on model I guess), etc. - this is what made me think it wasn't the best in terms of quality. An Asus 5770 feels like a solid brick in your hand :D

@Cilus:

GTX 550 Ti has 116W TDP. Converter cable wouldn't matter if you had 600W SMPS but most mid-range GPU buyers don't have high end SMPS units. Adding the converter cable is not optimal for electrical reasons: it adds resistive load and contributes to power loss. In borderline cases with a 450W or 500W SMPS, it is possible that not enough current can reach the graphics card, or it can be inconsistent, leading to instability and crashes.

One should *always* avoid the converter cables if possible, there's a good reason why the wires aren't all just connected one way and attached with converters to give you 4-pin, 6-pin, etc. (logically speaking, doing it this way would make the SMPS cheaper to produce) - the wire type is adapted to the kind of current passing through it. Changing it causes an effect which may be good or bad, but this effect is regardless one that you don't want.
 
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comp@ddict

EXIT: DATA Junkyard
Bah, I say grab the HD6850 and get done with it. Best VFM, 2k higher budget, same power requirements.

It's a win win..
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
^^ +1 for the suggestion - put away all the debate and get the most VFM deal - Look for MSI Cyclone Power Edition ;-)
 

Cilus

laborare est orare
Topgear,ya I know HD 6850 is best VFM, but I really didn't understand why people put their personal thoughts, not even thoughtful opinion here. I am not doing any debates regarding power consumption, just put some facts and figures from a reputated review site where the test has been conducted properly.

GTX 550 Ti has 116W TDP. Converter cable wouldn't matter if you had 600W SMPS but most mid-range GPU buyers don't have high end SMPS units. Adding the converter cable is not optimal for electrical reasons: it adds resistive load and contributes to power loss. In borderline cases with a 450W or 500W SMPS, it is possible that not enough current can reach the graphics card, or it can be inconsistent, leading to instability and crashes.

One should *always* avoid the converter cables if possible, there's a good reason why the wires aren't all just connected one way and attached with converters to give you 4-pin, 6-pin, etc. (logically speaking, doing it this way would make the SMPS cheaper to produce) - the wire type is adapted to the kind of current passing through it. Changing it causes an effect which may be good or bad, but this effect is regardless one that you don't want.

Now look at this.....Simply putting their own misleading ideas over here...no clarification, no review link...nothing. Even some models of FSP SAGA II 500 has 1 PCI-E 6 pin connector, it does not mean that it isn't sufficient to power a HD 6790. It is like if the PSU is capable enough to deliver the required power then it does not matter whether you are using 2 PCI-E connector or using converter. Also here we are talking about some quality 450PSU or 500W psu, not some cheap local brands which may have their build qiality issues.
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
Cilus said:
Now look at this.....Simply putting their own misleading ideas over here...no clarification, no review link...nothing. Even some models of FSP SAGA II 500 has 1 PCI-E 6 pin connector, it does not mean that it isn't sufficient to power a HD 6790.

I said borderline cases, does that mean an FSP Saga II? One cannot just assume everyone has a great SMPS. This thread does not serve the purpose of just the original poster, so many people read it. Can you guarantee all of them have a *good* 500W or 450W SMPS?

As for your first sentence, do you really think that this is a court of law where everything needs to be proved? How many reviews do you know of that take up a multimeter and measure how these cards are holding up with 50 SMPS units?

Anyone who works in electrical engineering field knows that additional loading (which is what happens when you add a wire to a system of wires) causes power loss (go take up a textbook and give it a skim if you're not sure :) ). If you have a weaker/local SMPS, this will be a cause for concern. On a good SMPS, this power loss will be small enough not to cause concern. There are various parasitic elements, the kind of technical stuff that will be mentioned only in super specialized books (of course not in BE syllabus though). Good/decent designs always avoid/eliminate such concerns, but what about joe average made in China SMPS?

Now I do not appreciate disrespect, and your post sure seemed to contain a good amount of it.
 
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Cilus

laborare est orare
Buddy, don't get me worng...but if you check differnt threads where people are asing about new Gfx card...the 1st question you will see is "What SMPS/PSU do you have?" Our forum members make sure that that the OP has enough setup to run the extra hardware he is adding. So if anyone reading threads as reference he/she will clearly get the idea of the requirement of a good PSU.

As for your first sentence, do you really think that this is a court of law where everything needs to be proved? How many reviews do you know of that take up a multimeter and measure how these cards are holding up?

I know lot of them. It is you who is only taliking about TDP value, I am talikng about the total power consumption measured by multimeter from a running system. So if there is a loss, it will be counted in it as total power consumption measured from a system also takes account of the power lost due to resistance.
For knowing the power loss due to resistance, I don't need to be an electrical engineer, I have pretty good idea about it...that's why GTS 550 Ti ended up with 140W load power consumption where its TDP is 115W. Don't try to teach me your so called great knowledge about power loss.

What the hell about local SMPS... no matter wheteher it is 450 or 600W, it simply not recommended for a good Gfx card, if somebody is not having one he has to buy a standrad PSU from a good manufacturer. Even with a 600W local SMPS, GTS 550 won't be borderline case, it will be dangerous case.
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
^The fact is that you cannot stop people from buying crap PSUs, they will be doing it regardless of what people here write. People often buy first and read about things later. And many are not in a financial position to go and get a new one immediately. It's best that they at least know precautions to follow whenever they can.

Cilus said:
.that's why GTS 550 Ti ended up with 140W load power consumption where its TDP is 115W

No, that's not it. Fermi's power consumption is loss due to a different reason, not wire loss. It's due to parasitic impedance elements within the silicon die (also higher number of transistors but forget about that). Loss due to wire and loss due to internal design are different things, though not entirely unrelated.

For that matter, a lot of 6790 cards also reach 125W-130W load power consumption. But it needs two power connectors. The big question is why?

You have HD 6850 and 550 Ti, they don't need it. Neither does HD 5770/6770. The bottom line is simple, if you are confident with your PSU, go ahead, get the 6790 or GTX 460. Else, don't. Simple as that.

BTW, those load power tests are done on really good PSUs which generally have all the PCIe connectors required. Those reviewers generally do not need to use these converter cables. It's a moot point on a good PSU (such as the Saga II), on a bad PSU and a bad cable, a lot of bad stuff happens (I've had experience).

Also, please note that many people here do not post but keep reading threads on a regular basis. This is true for any forum. As users, it is our responsibility to deliver general information as well as specific information.

Cilus said:
Don't try to teach me your so called great knowledge about power loss.

I could come back with some kind of angry retort, but I really don't want to. I would appreciate it if you could pull back some of your anger, I haven't been attacking you in any way so far. But this is the second time you have attacked me (Or maybe I think you've attacked me when you haven't, in which case I'd have to say sorry.....)

The knowledge I shared was all accurate and real. I also said that the effects can be good or bad, which is also correct. Now whether that information is useful or not is your opinion, but you really shouldn't be calling it crap.

For others: From this discussion, at least one thing is clear: get a good PSU, and a good PSU with even 450W will not have a problem powering either of these cards. Otherwise, it would be wise to be careful.
 
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Cilus

laborare est orare
AcceleratorX, sorry for using that line... I didn't mean it and I am totally agree with you regarding the Crap PSU thing, your point makes very good sense.

But I'm not agree with you regarding the Power consumption of HD 6790. I checked the reviews from Tomshardware, guru3d, anandtech, hardwares Heven and found out that not only HD 6790 has lesser power consumption than GTX 550 Ti but also runs lot cooler than GTS 550 TI in full load. And no where it reached 130W as you mentioned.

So anybody, not having a good PSU, simply can't jump to a GTS 550 Ti also as you suggested. AMD has given two PCI E power connector to HD 6790 for being on the safer side.

Bottom line is if you have HD 6850, HD 6770 you can take your chance, but not with GTS 550 Ti. How can a PSU able to power a GTS 550 Ti can't power a HD 6790....it has far less power consumption in load.
 

asingh

Aspiring Novelist
When OEM's see that the power draw of the GPU board is nearing the 140W-150W mark range they immediately start to recommend 3x power connectors. One is the PCI.E dock and two power connectors. Each giving roughly 75W of power. To be safe they recommend three.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just read this about HD6790 ;-)

"Though the reference boards we sent out to you may resemble the 6870, the AIB designs will vary greatly from what you’re seeing on our sample boards, including PCB, power connectors, cooler design etc. This means the AIBs have the choice to, for example, include one or two power connectors on the PCB."

Source

And here checkout the PowerColor HD6790 1GB GDDD5 which has only One 6-Pin PCI Express Power connector ;-)
PowerColor Official Website - Graphics, Cases, Power Supply -- PowerColor HD6790 1GB GDDD5
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
@topgear: I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts that PowerColor HD 6790s have only one PCIe power connector.

@Cilus: Check out techpowerup's review of the 6790, one does go up to 125W (though that's still appreciably lower than the 142W of the 550 Ti).

The biggest problem with having two PCIe connectors even with a relatively good PSU is that sometimes you may run into a problem, i.e. if you have 4 HDDs, a motherboard with an 8-pin power connector, and/or two optical drives with lots of case fans, you may find yourself without an additional 6-pin to spare, or in the worst case, without even a spare connector to attach the converter to.

(In my case, I found myself in this situation, which is why I had to avoid the GTX 460 which was what I was initially looking it).

Anyway, I am aware most people won't have 4 HDDs but if you intend to upgrade like that then it's something you should keep in mind.

That's all then.

Also, I apologize for any heated comments I may have made.
 

topgear

Super Moderator
Staff member
^^ I must have overlooked it then ;-)

BTW, even if some good PSU only has a single 6-Pin PCI Express Power connector and you have 4HDDs, 2 ODDs and lots of case fan then nothing to worry as long as the PSU is capable enough to power all the components including the gfx cards

For 4 HDDs , 2 ODDs - ( most of them uses SATA power connectors now ) and for lots of case fans ( 2-3 case fans can be attached with the mobo itself / or can be attached with a fan controller ) you can always use a Molex Y cable which divides a single molex connector into two so that you can power two devices using a single molex connector and they are damn cheap - Rs. 15-25 each ;-)

Now if you can manage the cables properly inside of the cabby then you must have two spare molex connectors ( coming out from the PSU ) so that the 6-Pin PCI Express Power connector converter that comes with the gfx card package can be used with the good psu.
 

comp@ddict

EXIT: DATA Junkyard
Clius chillax buddy it's okay.

Here's some suggestion:

FSP Saga 500W, stick to something within HD6770 if you're using a quad.
Corsair VX450W and higher, go for GTX550Ti, GTX560Ti, HD6850/HD6870
 
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