Why Apple can afford to rock
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aryayush
Aspiring Novelist
1. Dude, that's not the way it works. How can you sell a product with support for a technology that isn't even there in the market yet? As soon as they would have launched it, the entire Internet would have been abuzz with people complaining about the lack of 802.11n base stations. They would have charged Apple for the AirPort Extreme's incapability, at that time, to support 802.11n.
2. The software was readily available on Apple's online store. No one would have made a trip to the store for a $2 software. Come on, this was a non-issue, specially in the States.
3. Delaying them wouldn't have meant just a week. The AirPort Extremes were released months later. Delaying was not an option at all. Those same customers would have been a lot louder if Apple was last to the market with Core 2 Duo based notebooks, specially after they'd just switched to the Intel platform. Apple couldn't have done anything to jeopardize the switch. It's now known as the most successful and smooth transition in the history of the industry.
IMHO, Apple wasn't wrong in any way in the 802.11n incident. It's just the Apple customers are a bit too spoiled for their own good. Ask one of us to jump ship if we don't like Apple's policies and then see us stammer and choke.
2. The software was readily available on Apple's online store. No one would have made a trip to the store for a $2 software. Come on, this was a non-issue, specially in the States.
3. Delaying them wouldn't have meant just a week. The AirPort Extremes were released months later. Delaying was not an option at all. Those same customers would have been a lot louder if Apple was last to the market with Core 2 Duo based notebooks, specially after they'd just switched to the Intel platform. Apple couldn't have done anything to jeopardize the switch. It's now known as the most successful and smooth transition in the history of the industry.
IMHO, Apple wasn't wrong in any way in the 802.11n incident. It's just the Apple customers are a bit too spoiled for their own good. Ask one of us to jump ship if we don't like Apple's policies and then see us stammer and choke.
OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
@ aayush and goobi,
thanks for the additional information. A lack of information clouded my decision. That really did not seem like Apple after what you've told me. Now, its perfectly clear that they really had no other option.
In fact, the only reason i thought it was a problem was that they might have had to travel to the store and stuff... nice to know that it's a really quick process. And 2$ is undobutedly a nominal fee.
thanks for the additional information. A lack of information clouded my decision. That really did not seem like Apple after what you've told me. Now, its perfectly clear that they really had no other option.
In fact, the only reason i thought it was a problem was that they might have had to travel to the store and stuff... nice to know that it's a really quick process. And 2$ is undobutedly a nominal fee.
aditya.shevade
Console Junkie
@ Aryayush, Thanks. That was a very informative article. 2$ thing.... Well, I cannot really comment on that. But 20$ touch this sucks. 
@ring_wraith, congrats for booting up that PC and windows within 17 seconds. I wish my computer hardware was good enough to do that.
@Milind and Aayush, One question and I want a really honest answer. How is apple's hardware? I mentioned about HP cheating and being bad. I had another thing in mind with that customer support and that was hardware quality.
About my HP laptop. Since I bought it, in 1.75 years there has been a motherboard, a bluetooth dongle, 4 HDD and 4 DVD drive replacements. All due to manufacturing defects. I know it for a fact that HP India, even though they are good at service, cheat the customers by replacing the H/W with refurbished and/or older versions.
A friend of mine lives in US now. He had come here in India and his HP laptop which he bought in US had some display problems. So, he got the display replaced from HP Benglore office. And he just thought that the screen was not the same. So when he went back to US, he took the laptop to the service center there. And they told him that the replaced display was vga. Originally he had a qxga display before the replacement.
Even I have seen this. When HP replaced the DVD drives of my laptop, they replaced them with less functional drives. Originally I had a DVD-RAM drive. One that could write DVD-RAMs and the replaced ones cannot write them.
Another friend of mine just had a problem of broken DVD drive and silent speakers with his HP laptop.
Now, again, my question is. What is the report about Apple? Do they do these cheap things like replacing with refurbished H/W and stuff? Replacing with an older H/W? I have been asking for a replacement of the entire piece since the first problem (Which arose after 2 months of purchasing... DVD drive and HDD replaced), but they did not heed it. I mean, the laptop spent 6 months of those 1.75 years in the service centers around India. Not to mention that people in service centers and online chat support are of no use whatsoever.
Based on these things, I want to know what is the truth behind Apple regarding this issue?
Aditya
@ring_wraith, congrats for booting up that PC and windows within 17 seconds. I wish my computer hardware was good enough to do that.
@Milind and Aayush, One question and I want a really honest answer. How is apple's hardware? I mentioned about HP cheating and being bad. I had another thing in mind with that customer support and that was hardware quality.
About my HP laptop. Since I bought it, in 1.75 years there has been a motherboard, a bluetooth dongle, 4 HDD and 4 DVD drive replacements. All due to manufacturing defects. I know it for a fact that HP India, even though they are good at service, cheat the customers by replacing the H/W with refurbished and/or older versions.
A friend of mine lives in US now. He had come here in India and his HP laptop which he bought in US had some display problems. So, he got the display replaced from HP Benglore office. And he just thought that the screen was not the same. So when he went back to US, he took the laptop to the service center there. And they told him that the replaced display was vga. Originally he had a qxga display before the replacement.
Even I have seen this. When HP replaced the DVD drives of my laptop, they replaced them with less functional drives. Originally I had a DVD-RAM drive. One that could write DVD-RAMs and the replaced ones cannot write them.
Another friend of mine just had a problem of broken DVD drive and silent speakers with his HP laptop.
Now, again, my question is. What is the report about Apple? Do they do these cheap things like replacing with refurbished H/W and stuff? Replacing with an older H/W? I have been asking for a replacement of the entire piece since the first problem (Which arose after 2 months of purchasing... DVD drive and HDD replaced), but they did not heed it. I mean, the laptop spent 6 months of those 1.75 years in the service centers around India. Not to mention that people in service centers and online chat support are of no use whatsoever.
Based on these things, I want to know what is the truth behind Apple regarding this issue?
Aditya
OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
Apple does not scoff on hardware. If there's one thing I know about Apple, it's that.
Repairs are not cheap, but they are top quality. Just try typing away on a Mac's keyboard and all your doubts will fly out the window.
Repairs are not cheap, but they are top quality. Just try typing away on a Mac's keyboard and all your doubts will fly out the window.
aryayush
Aspiring Novelist
Well, I'm not much help in this department given that I've not had much interaction with the customer service department but from the minimal experience I do have, these are my conclusions:
1. The hardware and the engineering is top notch. Unless you are really unlucky, you won't have to get into all that customer servicing anyway.
2. Till date, my notebook has had three problems: the SuperDrive started making noise, the batter swelled up and, very recently, the buttom casing loosed up a little in certain places. The SuperDrive was replaced within a week, I got a new battery in five days (after it was out of warranty) and it is performing much better than the previous one. As for the bottom casing issue, they've told me that Apple is not shipping parts for some reason right now if the issue is non-critical and they have several backorders. They've returned my notebook to me and have asked me to return whenever I want after one month and they'll replace the whole case.
3. The SuperDrive and battery I got were brand new. No doubt about that.
4. The reps are helpful and patient.
5. The phone support is friggin' mind-blowing. They're very gentle and don't treat you like a newbie. I hated it when I called HP customer support once for Yash bhaiya's notebook and he was asking me questions like, "Are you sure you have Windows XP, sir?" "Yes, I am." "Sir, it might be Windows 98. They look the same." No, they don't and dude, I'm using the computer – I know which OS it is running. Sheesh!
6. Did I mention that the hardware is awesome in the first place?
7. In my 1.5 years of owning this notebook, I've been apart from it for ten days. That's all. And all the problems I've had have been after the one year warranty ran out (but I do have AppleCare Protection Plan).
Personally, I think they have top notch customer service.
An important addendum: Since Apple takes care of the whole monty, the hardware, software and all that comes in between, their toll free number is a one stop solution for all your problems. You just can't beat that when compared to all the other vendors. There is no red-tapism and no throwing the blame around. If your machine has a problem of any kind, it's Apple's fault and they take full responsibility for it. Kudos to them.
1. The hardware and the engineering is top notch. Unless you are really unlucky, you won't have to get into all that customer servicing anyway.
2. Till date, my notebook has had three problems: the SuperDrive started making noise, the batter swelled up and, very recently, the buttom casing loosed up a little in certain places. The SuperDrive was replaced within a week, I got a new battery in five days (after it was out of warranty) and it is performing much better than the previous one. As for the bottom casing issue, they've told me that Apple is not shipping parts for some reason right now if the issue is non-critical and they have several backorders. They've returned my notebook to me and have asked me to return whenever I want after one month and they'll replace the whole case.
3. The SuperDrive and battery I got were brand new. No doubt about that.
4. The reps are helpful and patient.
5. The phone support is friggin' mind-blowing. They're very gentle and don't treat you like a newbie. I hated it when I called HP customer support once for Yash bhaiya's notebook and he was asking me questions like, "Are you sure you have Windows XP, sir?" "Yes, I am." "Sir, it might be Windows 98. They look the same." No, they don't and dude, I'm using the computer – I know which OS it is running. Sheesh!
6. Did I mention that the hardware is awesome in the first place?
7. In my 1.5 years of owning this notebook, I've been apart from it for ten days. That's all. And all the problems I've had have been after the one year warranty ran out (but I do have AppleCare Protection Plan).
Personally, I think they have top notch customer service.
An important addendum: Since Apple takes care of the whole monty, the hardware, software and all that comes in between, their toll free number is a one stop solution for all your problems. You just can't beat that when compared to all the other vendors. There is no red-tapism and no throwing the blame around. If your machine has a problem of any kind, it's Apple's fault and they take full responsibility for it. Kudos to them.
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aditya.shevade
Console Junkie
Fine... it looks like they do have better hardware....
What about the battery life?
What about the battery life?
MetalheadGautham
AFK
no. I only got PCI slot and PCIe 1x slot. So I can't get meself a card
napster007
Padawan
Apple lover's will never like windows i guess....or for that matter microsoft.
krazzy
Techtree Reviewer
Hardware wise even my two year old Compaq Presario has almost zero problems (except for a slightly loose left display hinge). Still in two years of usage, I think its really a small problem and Aayush's Macbook problems like noisy SuperDrive and swelling battery (scary!) seem to be much more serious.
About the $2 for the wi-fi, I think they had no choice but to charge it because the law demanded that they do so. But still, you yourself said that they know a workaround for the Sarbanes Oakley Act which they used for iPhone and Apple TV. Then why didn't they use it for the wi-fi? $2 is not a big amount, but still if it can be given for free, then why not?
About the $2 for the wi-fi, I think they had no choice but to charge it because the law demanded that they do so. But still, you yourself said that they know a workaround for the Sarbanes Oakley Act which they used for iPhone and Apple TV. Then why didn't they use it for the wi-fi? $2 is not a big amount, but still if it can be given for free, then why not?
goobimama
Macboy
The iPhone and AppleTV have a steady income by themselves. The iphone in the form of the AT&T subscription and the AppleTV because people rent movies from it. So stockholders have no problem. The iTouch investment on the other hand is a dead end. No more can come out of it after it has been sold that's why the upgrades are charged for.
As for Apple hardware quality, I can certainly say it is top notch. Two years in my dusty house and I still can't hear a thing unlike my noisy WD MyBook HDD (actually any external HDD makes more noise than the iMac).
The macbook comes with magnetic latch so there's no hinge problems ever. I remember the problems we had with that Compaq notebook and it's hinges. Finally the display was separate from the body and one had to mount the display on a stack of books to use it
As for Apple hardware quality, I can certainly say it is top notch. Two years in my dusty house and I still can't hear a thing unlike my noisy WD MyBook HDD (actually any external HDD makes more noise than the iMac).
The macbook comes with magnetic latch so there's no hinge problems ever. I remember the problems we had with that Compaq notebook and it's hinges. Finally the display was separate from the body and one had to mount the display on a stack of books to use it
aryayush
Aspiring Novelist
Generally, all companies use the standard form of accounting, and do does Apple. For the iPhone, they knew that they'll be making the hardware more powerful as time goes by and for free. So they changed the accounting method to subscription based. Same for the AppleTV.
However, this has to be done before the product is introduced. You can't do it any time you want on a whim or fancy. I don't think Apple can change the accounting method for Macs to subscription based just like that. And, in any case, this was a one time thing. It's not like they're going to keep doing this sort of stuff every now and then.
I know I've no clue about U.S. accounting methods (or even Indian, for that matter) but I hope you see the point. They really had no way out of that and by charging only $2 (and all the other measures they took that I mentioned in the other post), I think they did the right thing. I don't think they had any intention to profit from this.
It's actually pretty unfair to them they they got handed the rough end of the stick on this issue. (But then again, they do some pretty unfair stuff too, so I guess that evens out.)
I get around three hours on mine ever since upgrading to Leopard. Ashwin's is a generation ahead of mine and he gets around four. The latest ones are supposed to give around 4.5 hours.
OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
^^ Leopard improves battery life? I know it makes no difference to me.... but still.
Gigacore
Dreamweaver
BTW, whats the profit in debating this stuff We fight, they earn. In fact we are the actually loosers by spending thousands of dollars to their products. All they want is MONEY, so they can create any kinda illusion in people's mind. Seeing all this stuff, it makes me to switch to Linux permanently. But unfortunately, most of my daily rituals demands windows!
I'm fed up of this OS wars. . . . . Keep fighting.
We fight, they earn. In fact we are the actually loosers by spending thousands of dollars to their products. All they want is MONEY, so they can create any kinda illusion in people's mind. Seeing all this stuff, it makes me to switch to Linux permanently. But unfortunately, most of my daily rituals demands windows! I'm fed up of this OS wars. . . . . Keep fighting.
drgrudge
Another Brick in the Wall
On moderate PC usage, BT/AirPort switched off, 20% brightness, Crossover and 2/3 other apps running, I get 4 hours. With no usage, just with the Mac running, I should be getting over 4.5 hours. Mine is 'Santa Rosa' gen of MBP.
The newer Penryn gen MBP will easily last 4.5 on moderate usage. With some optimum settings, should get over 5 hours.
It does for sure. Maybe because of the fact that the next setting after the minimum brightness (where it's blackout) is comfortable for me.
Penryn gen MBP should get good mileage as Proccy is power efficient and generates less heat. Till the 'Santa Rosa' gen MBP, the heat is an issue and that's the only thing I'm not happy with my Mac.
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aditya.shevade
Console Junkie
^^ Thanks people. What about the degradation in battery wrt time? My laptop battery doesn't even last 40 minutes now. Even if I just jut it on, no use, lowest possible brightness and no wifi/BT...
krazzy
Techtree Reviewer
Ok I didn't know about the accounting thingy. Now talking about what gooby said about Apple charging iTouch owners for the firmware, because after selling the Touch to customers there is no profit to Apple, I think this is being seriously money-hungry by Apple. I mean thats the case with all the mp3 players on the market including Apple's own Nano and Classic. Once these devices are sold, the company can't make any profit from them. So that means they start charging for the firmware? Imagine what would happen if all manufacturers would start doing that. Sometimes I think, for all the good things Apple does, it sometimes stoops too low to get money.
drgrudge
Another Brick in the Wall
A normal 6 cell battery will not last for more than 2 - 2.5 hours. With no BT/Wifi, 50% brightness; I used to get 2.5 hours and after 8 months of usage I used to get 2 hours. I had Dell Inspiron 6400.
See, you should never keep the lappy charged always. With my Dell and MBP; I switch off the power once it reaches 100%. And I switch it on after 3-4%.
How old is your lappy?
aryayush
Aspiring Novelist
Yes, it does, and the performance too. It was quite the surprise for me as well, given that I'm also used to the reverse with Windows.
The performance of all batteries degrade with time. That's no secret.
Well, FWIW, I haven't heard of any company providing a firmware update for free that supercharged the device with previously unavailable features. Microsoft did this with the Zune but that's just because they don't really have any customers yet and will do anything to gain some ground.
But that said, I still would've liked to see Apple set an example here, specially because all those features were already available for iPhone users and were withdrawn from the iPod touch because Apple wanted to differentiate the two product lines, or so they claimed.
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