MetalheadGautham
AFK
@goobimama: you talk as if PC only means Windows Vista.
Why Apple can afford to rock
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ctrl_alt_del
A Year Closer To Heaven
@ring_wraith: I have absolutely nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand because I don't hate my Windows XP and never had a chance to really use a Mac.
All I wanted to say when I decided to drop down in this thread was that I absolutely loved your style of writing here. It has been ages since I have come across a level headed and clear thinker here, at Digit forums. I really enjoyed reading your posts here and I thank you for the same.
All I wanted to say when I decided to drop down in this thread was that I absolutely loved your style of writing here. It has been ages since I have come across a level headed and clear thinker here, at Digit forums. I really enjoyed reading your posts here and I thank you for the same.
MetalheadGautham
AFK
but luckily, its changing fast.
I for example, run a DarkHorse2000 Workstation instead of a PC
OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
Why.... thank you so very much!
A compliment is something you rarely get around these parts! It is much appreciated....
Now, back to the topic at hand...
@everyone who is against Mac.... I honestly don't think it's right for us to comment on the usability [or non-usability] of OSX, unless we have actually owned Macs before. So please refrain from doing so, or this is most likely going to turn into another flame war.
We've got a nice discussion going. Let's keep it that way.
Okay, this really finally makes sense to me. Even a windows XP [probably not Vista] PC can boot up in 20 seconds flat, provided there are no extra programs loaded at startup.
Trust me, I actually went through this phase where I had to have everything instantly, and as a result began optimizing my boot times and unloaded all unnecessary applications. Finally, I got it down to 17 seconds from power-switch-press to desktop.
aditya.shevade
Console Junkie
^^ Ummm.... I dunno much about this thing. But I have a question here. Unline OS-X and Linux, windows (at least XP) has many of it's components integrated with the OS. (As explained in digit mag article about security).
So, just disabling the S/W at boot/login for windows will not be able to speed up things as much as it would do in case of Linux and/or OS-X, will it? Correct me if I am wrong here. But you cannot turn off IE at login, but in Linux you can remove a browser from login programs and I don't have any idea about OS-X.
Aditya
So, just disabling the S/W at boot/login for windows will not be able to speed up things as much as it would do in case of Linux and/or OS-X, will it? Correct me if I am wrong here. But you cannot turn off IE at login, but in Linux you can remove a browser from login programs and I don't have any idea about OS-X.
Aditya
aryayush
Aspiring Novelist
I agree with you on everything else but dude, they had a pretty darn solid reason for that.
They basically upgraded your computer to 802.11n for just $2 (and, in most cases, even free). Generally, that would've required you to buy a whole new computer. If I had a Core 2 Duo notebook at that time, I would've been bowing to Apple for giving me 802.11n on my six-month-old notebook for $2.
C'mon, man!
But yeah, they do some pretty cheap stuff sometimes that makes your jaws drop, and not in a good way. When Steve was asked whether Apple wasn't the rebel anymore, the company that took care of its customers above all else, the company that introduced the one-year standard warranty on all its computers before anyone else in the industry, he said something along the lines of, "We still strive to be that same Apple but you have to understand that we are growing pretty fast and we do drop the ball sometimes."
I'd still say that they are no worse than any other company out there. If anything, they're better because, regardless of some of their policies, they do have the best products in the industry.
Umm... I, for one, didn't say that you have to do any optimisation at all for OS X to boot in twenty seconds. A freshly installed copy of OS X and a two-year-old installation boot in almost exactly the same time (though Tiger had slowed down just a bit towards the end of last year).
And even if you set several applications to start up at login, it's different from Windows because you can use your Mac even while those applications are launching. On Windows, if you double click on something on the desktop as soon as the PC boots up (and something is set to launch at login), the computer generally freezes for a while as it tries to process what just happened (blink... blink... duh?).
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gxsaurav
You gave been GXified
Ya, problem with Mac. They gave the hardware already installed but charged to enable the functionality via driver/firmware
aditya.shevade
Console Junkie
^^ Go ahead... I am collecting facts for future buying. I hate HP cause HP has given me enough headache and I am looking for a company that provides the best customer support. I don't give a **** if it is apple or not. I just want the best support and reasonable people on the job.
So, bring as many good/bad things as you can.
I forgot to add one thing... by support, I mean only hardware support.
So, bring as many good/bad things as you can.
I forgot to add one thing... by support, I mean only hardware support.
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OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
Giga, almost every major site accepts that the features added to the iPod touch are worth the upgrade cost. Cnet actually raised the Touch's score from 8.3 to 8.7, brining it on par with their highest rated player, the iRiver Clix. But there is no doubt that it kind of sucks that they made you pay for something that should have been there in the first place.
And don't the touches made post the 51st(?) week already have the new features included?
@aditya, cannot comment on how it affects a Linux system, but I did get my PC to start up in 17 seconds.
Also, Apple has brilliant customer service, and i speak from experience. My friend had received an iPod 4gig [2g] as a gift, but something went wrong, so I accompanied him to the Apple imagine store. Despite the non-availability of the Bill, we were out of the store in five minutes flat, with the assurance that it would be ready by tomorrow.
Also, in the states they have this concept of a Genius Bar, which is basically a group of Mac pros who really have an idea of what they are doing. Don't know if they are available in India.
Wait for Aayush's inevitable comment on Apple service.
and finally, @ aayush, that would be great. I've never really heard about it.
And don't the touches made post the 51st(?) week already have the new features included?
@aditya, cannot comment on how it affects a Linux system, but I did get my PC to start up in 17 seconds.
Also, Apple has brilliant customer service, and i speak from experience. My friend had received an iPod 4gig [2g] as a gift, but something went wrong, so I accompanied him to the Apple imagine store. Despite the non-availability of the Bill, we were out of the store in five minutes flat, with the assurance that it would be ready by tomorrow.
Also, in the states they have this concept of a Genius Bar, which is basically a group of Mac pros who really have an idea of what they are doing. Don't know if they are available in India.
Wait for Aayush's inevitable comment on Apple service.
and finally, @ aayush, that would be great. I've never really heard about it.
goobimama
Macboy
Computer startup is irrelevant. It can take five minutes for all I care. I never really shut it down. It uses so little power in sleep mode, that if the UPS goes in battery mode, it thinks that there is no power being drawn and auto shuts down.
As for customer service, I have to say it has been top class. So far they replaced my DVD writer twice. Once cause it wasn't writing to Sony blanks. The other time cause I got a DVD stuck in there. Both took not more than a week to complete, that is, from the day I filed the complaint till the day they called me over. The guys even offer to do the replacement onsite.
As for customer service, I have to say it has been top class. So far they replaced my DVD writer twice. Once cause it wasn't writing to Sony blanks. The other time cause I got a DVD stuck in there. Both took not more than a week to complete, that is, from the day I filed the complaint till the day they called me over. The guys even offer to do the replacement onsite.
OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
Startup is majorly relevant to me, primarily because I need to switch it off and on a lot.
aryayush
Aspiring Novelist
Apple's customer service is outstanding. I've heard so many accounts of it that it's a fact for me now. I haven't had much experience with it myself because I only own this MacBook Pro and this thing is just too darned solid. But I did have to go to them once when the battery swelled up (it's a known problem; the battery swells up but never bursts) after it was out of warranty. I took just the battery to them and they immediately took it in and gave me a new battery after five days. No paperwork required; no mess at all.
The Reliance iStores have the Genius Bar. They call it ResQ, but it's the same thing.
OK. I'll repeat the incident as is without making any judgements. You guys are free to form your own opinion about it.
Apple, as you must know, is a very secretive company. They never talk about upcoming products and stuff that they are working on. Only when it's time to launch it do they announce it and they like to do that with a big Jobsian bang.
You might not know this but among the several other technologies that have gained mass acceptance due, in large part, to a firm push by Apple are optical drives, LCD screens and 802.11 WiFi. They've always been the first to incorporate the latest WiFi standard in their products and almost every product Apple makes is WiFi enabled.
So they were working on the next generation of 802.11, the 'n' standard. While the work was nearing completion, they had to release their upgraded MacBook Pros equipped with Core 2 Duo processors. The notebooks couldn't be delayed, of course, because it's a race to get to the market first with the best processors. The 802.11n base station was still in development.
What would any company have done? They would have equipped the notebooks with 802.11g receivers, reserving 'n' for the generation to follow. Apple, on the other hand, equipped these notebooks with 802.11n capable receivers that were restricted to 802.11g on a software level and advertised them as being 802.11g capable only.
Now there are two reasons behind this:
1. They simply couldn't have let the word out that they were working on 802.11n in advance, before they were ready to sell the product; and
2. It made no sense to have advertised 802.11n capable notebooks when there weren't any 802.11n capable base stations or networks in the world to use them with.
People bought those notebooks happily, knowing full well that it was capable of 802.11g which, at that time, was the latest standard in the market. They happily used it for six months (maybe three or four, I'm not quite sure), lauded its capabilities, enjoyed the fact that they had the best Mac notebook on the market.
Then, when Apple finally got AirPort Extreme ready and was all set to introduce 802.11n to the world, they announced that all MacBook Pros with Core 2 Duo chips were already capable of 802.11n and there was no need to upgrade. All you had to do was buy an AirPort Extreme and you'll get the license to use a small software free with the base station that would allow you to activate 802.11n in your notebook. All MacBook Pros from then on would, of course, ship with the chip activated for no extra charge.
But people who did not want to buy an AirPort Extreme but wanted to have 802.11n activated on their notebooks would have to pay $2, the minimum amount you can charge to a U.S. credit card. On the purchase page on their website, they made it extremely clear that you didn't need to buy it if you intended to buy an AirPort Extreme in the near future. Also, you could use one copy of the software to activate up to five Macs (and, like Mac OS X family pack, that wasn't enforced by Apple in any way – it was just up to your conscience).
Also note that if you did not intend to buy an 802.11n capable AirPort Extreme, your Mac's capability to use that standard would be virtually useless because the AirPort Extreme, at that point of time, was the only base station capable of 802.11n.
In other words, there was very little reason for you to spend $2 on that piece of software.
As for why couldn't Apple just give it for free – that's because it's illegal according to Californian law. There's a Sarbanes Oakley Act that publicly held companies have to comply with which states that you cannot give users unadvertised features free of cost after purchase because that would mean you're cheating the shareholders (if you're not making any money, you're losing it and that's not something your shareholders would want you to do).
So Apple charged the minimum it was possible to charge the customers and, for all intents and purposes, tried to make sure that you didn't have to pay it if you didn't need it.
I'm not sure what they did wrong here. AFAIK, they upgraded your notebook to the latest WiFi standard for, practically, free after a few months of your having bought it – and they took the flak for it. I'm surprised that Milind does not approve of this.
Of course, they are citing the same reason for charging for the iPod touch upgrades but that's just bullshit. They know a workaround for the Sarbanes Oakley Act and use it for the iPhone and Apple TV. Why not use the same accounting method for the iPod touch? And why charge $20 when $2 is enough to comply with that act? This is just bullshit.
Let me know what you guys think...
You wouldn't if you had a Mac. My current uptime: 53 days. I only shut it down when some major update requires me to. The sleep mode is pure blessing, combined with the fact that the operating system works like a charm no matter how long you go without restarting.
MetalheadGautham
AFK
if thats the case, then you might be intrested in my PC.
I have the crappiest bundle of hardware with the world's worst HDD.
256 mb ddr400 ram, P4 2.66GHz, Onboard GMA900 graphics, 80 gig samskunk HDD
even then, I get a solid 20 second boot into my desktop.
OP
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
@aayush, thank you once again for taking the time out to post a long, detailed post. They're always a pleasure to read.
In case of the 802.11n thing, in my opinion, Apple is still wrong in charging customers 2$. Not because of the 2$, but because it really wouldn't have hurt to delay the MBPs by a week and release them with 802.11n. Even though there were no base stations at that time, they were definetly going to spring up, and knowing that your laptop was ready to deal with them even before they launched would have been great.
This would have saved customers a trip to the Apple store, and in today's world, where time is money, I'm sure a lot of people would have appreciated the move.
In case of the 802.11n thing, in my opinion, Apple is still wrong in charging customers 2$. Not because of the 2$, but because it really wouldn't have hurt to delay the MBPs by a week and release them with 802.11n. Even though there were no base stations at that time, they were definetly going to spring up, and knowing that your laptop was ready to deal with them even before they launched would have been great.
This would have saved customers a trip to the Apple store, and in today's world, where time is money, I'm sure a lot of people would have appreciated the move.
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