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sba

Journeyman
drgrudge said:
2. Date it was created.

3. Admins of certain site also can restrict the BW.
I have never heard of these two things effecting a torrent speed. Can you shed some light on it and the tracker software that provides the latter feature?
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
I never said they may affect the speed, all I said was tha they also affect the health of the torrent. Obviosuly the date when it was created matters, the longer the torrent file, less healty it is.
Abt the admins restricting BWs, yeah it can be done, VBTT has that option.


Tracker software which 90% of the site use is that of vB's hack called VBTT. Google for the links. It's paid softie, but the same company also has for IPB boards which is free with less features.
 

sba

Journeyman
drgrudge said:
I never said they may affect the speed
Just so that you recollect, this is what you said

The speeds are dependent on a hell lot of factors.

1. See how much peers u got. Leechers + seeders. If the number of leechers are less than the number of peers then the speed is gonna be more. Also the seeder should have a good upload speed. The seeders may be more but the leechers (incase have a better BW than u got ) will take the most of the BW and u will end up with a slower speeds.

2. Health of the torrent file. Date it was created.

3. Admins of certain site also can restrict the BW.


4. The speeds are not dependent on the clients;atleast not to a greater extent , u can see only marginal difference.

5. Also it does not mean more seeders and hence faster the downlaod, we don't know what the seeder does, he may put on many torrent file for download/upload. So I think it's from the leechers that we get the file parts.
Now...
Obviosuly the date when it was created matters, the longer the torrent file, less healty it is.
Why? How does date matter? Will a torrent with 10 as seeds:leech ratio created 2 years ago be slower than one having 0.5 or 1 ratio created yesterday? Why and how does date of creation effect torrent's health?

Abt the admins restricting BWs, yeah it can be done, VBTT has that option.
VBTT is just a frontend to the core tracker softwares (like torrent trader) and I couldn't find any such features supported by the script alone. All I know of is that it has the actual knowledge about the U/D speed and that too because the core application supports it but not a way to control the speed. Can you post a link backing your comment. Thanx in advance for it.
 

siriusb

Cyborg Agent
sba,
the BT network is sort of like a slashdot effect network, where a new file is swarmed like hell. As the file's popularity goes down with time, so does the demand for it. Hence a old torrent has a lot of probablity to be seederless. But this is only one of the factors affecting the torrent, obviously.
This situation arises because, unlike other p2p layouts where files in a shared directory are automatically shared, in BT only a couple of files are being seeded by a peer at any time.
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
Siriub said what I wanted to say.
Let's take an example:
Say, I want to download a movie (illegally). Say I want to d/l War of the Worlds. The DVD comes out, and the junta's rip it and put up in the trackers and upload/seed for others and post the torrents link in other places like piratebay/torrentspy.
Will you d/l the file now or after 3 years?

OK, you may d/l later but the thing is that, the newer the torrent, the popular the torrent and junta's connected to the tracker for the torrent. May ppl who have really high speed connection, say 24mBps will start d/l and later u/l for others and wont leech like what most of the dataone junta's do. In this way, more popularity and speed is attained.

Remember the trackers are never from a torrent listing sites like piratebay/torrentspy, they just list the torrent. The actuall torrent may be uploaded to a tracker which is a forum with VBTT hack installed. Once the torrent is old, the topic also goes down, untill someone bumps that up or searchs and looks for the same.

Sometimes, even if the torrent is fine and still listed in the tracker, when peers are not connected to the tracker for sometimes, it is removed automatically.

On some other occasion, the torrent will be reomoved from the tracker and still it's listed in the piratebay..., the torrent is dead, and the list is yet to updated.. this has happened to me many times.
Hope you get the drift, what I wanted to say...



The admins can restrict the BW, by the way the IP u/l to others... I can't prove it but it is like that. Why? I have never been a admin... you need to expierence this...
 

sba

Journeyman
drgrudge said:
Siriub said what I wanted to say.
Let's take an example:
Say, I want to download a movie (illegally). Say I want to d/l War of the Worlds. The DVD comes out, and the junta's rip it and put up in the trackers and upload/seed for others and post the torrents link in other places like piratebay/torrentspy.
Will you d/l the file now or after 3 years?

OK, you may d/l later but the thing is that, the newer the torrent, the popular the torrent and junta's connected to the tracker for the torrent. May ppl who have really high speed connection, say 24mBps will start d/l and later u/l for others and wont leech like what most of the dataone junta's do. In this way, more popularity and speed is attained.

Remember the trackers are never from a torrent listing sites like piratebay/torrentspy, they just list the torrent. The actuall torrent may be uploaded to a tracker which is a forum with VBTT hack installed. Once the torrent is old, the topic also goes down, untill someone bumps that up or searchs and looks for the same.

Sometimes, even if the torrent is fine and still listed in the tracker, when peers are not connected to the tracker for sometimes, it is removed automatically.

On some other occasion, the torrent will be reomoved from the tracker and still it's listed in the piratebay..., the torrent is dead, and the list is yet to updated.. this has happened to me many times.
Hope you get the drift, what I wanted to say...
This whole long paragraph you wrote just has one conclusion and it is that torrent speed depends on the number of seeders and peers and NOT THE DATE ON WHICH IT WAS CREATED. Seriously man, no matter what happens after 3 years the issue still depends on seeds:peers ratio and not date of creation.

The admins can restrict the BW, by the way the IP u/l to others... I can't prove it but it is like that. Why? I have never been a admin... you need to expierence this...
Then you must know that no torrent tracker or hack till date can control the speed and the way bittorrent protocol is getting developed it probably will never happen. Reason?

Firstly, there is no responses that a tracker software can give to the network or to a tracker GET request which chokes the connection of a particular user/client/IP or tells network not to send pieces to a peer. Choked states are rotated by bittorrent protocol in an ordered manner to keep fibrillation levels low in the network. What an admin can achieve by tweaking his tracker software is to disable the users access to his/her tracker altogether but there are no half measures. He/she can not control the speeds. Go and ask the admins of any site you frequent.

Secondly, as to why it may never happen. It may never happen because of the way torrent networks are going tracker-less. I can download from lots of private trackers even if I am not allowed to access it or my access has been disabled due to wait times or ratio problems. I just need the torrent file posted on their site (which can be downloaded from various public sites) and then I don't even need the access to the tracker. I can even block the tracker from my firewall, just join the network through DHT and continue downloading at my max speeds. Only a very few sites like bwtorrents have developed advanced methods (their admin is an excellent developer himself) of attaching hash values to their torrents which leads to every torrent getting identified as an individual user who actually downloaded the torrent from their site thus if a torrent is posted out of their site, they can check the logs and zero in on the user who did it but they also CAN NOT control the speed. It simply is not possible.
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
sba said:
This whole long paragraph you wrote just has one conclusion and it is that torrent speed depends on the number of seeders and peers and NOT THE DATE ON WHICH IT WAS CREATED. Seriously man, no matter what happens after 3 years the issue still depends on seeds:peers ratio and not date of creation.
No, it is not abt the no. of peers. I am telling that we wont get many peers after years of creation of the torrent.
The older the torrent, the less popular the torrent.
Plz take a look here:
http://thepiratebay.org/top100.php
See how much torrent is new and how much is old.

Take Windows Vista beta torrent as an example. The no. of peers as not as much as it was some 2-3 months ago. Hense we can d/l with the same speed. Dont take the low speed conenctions in India, I said really high speeds with atleast more than 10Mbps, definitly d/l as the speed which you can d/l at the time the torrent was made and uploaded.

I can't explain more than this. :|


----------


Abt the admins restricting, I have seen the mods/admins at BwT telling that they got a custom mod at their forum, which can actually do this. You know aradi site? It's a private tracker+forum, they expect ppl to u/p more and d/l more.

Take a simple example:
Use BitComet, you can ban IP for a certain amount of time or till you d/l the whole file. If a client can do, why can't a tracker?


sba said:
Secondly, as to why it may never happen. It may never happen because of the way torrent networks are going tracker-less. I can download from lots of private trackers even if I am not allowed to access it or my access has been disabled due to wait times or ratio problems. I just need the torrent file posted on their site (which can be downloaded from various public sites) and then I don't even need the access to the tracker. I can even block the tracker from my firewall, just join the network through DHT and continue downloading at my max speeds.
I know that many torrent sites are going tracker less and even clients have started supporting these "features". BC is first client that support this, if I am not wrong.

DHT thing is not supported by many clients, afaik BitComet (BC), Azureus support them. I dont use Azureus as I have old PC (6 years old :p ; no JAVA installed). uTorrent is gonna bring out the DHT feature in their 2.XX releases, which will happen soon.

Even I can download from a private forum's trackers. Note I dint say Private Trackers. There are hundreds of torrents which is listed in the these

See this:



It clearly shows that it has been hosted by a private tracker and I was d/ling this and mind you I amnot a member of that site. Here is screenshot:



If this is what you meant by the private trackers, then you are mistaken, these are all public trackers... even BwT is in a way a private trackers (but it's not). You know aradi site? It's a private tracker till some back (now I think it's public), we simply can't d/l without being a member.
Even thou you may:
** D/l the torrent file (from a different source, like a person from that site gives you or d/l that after that been been posted in some other site and the tracker being the same)
** Use BC or other client supporting DHT
** Meddle with the hash code
** Try to connect to the tracker and then after some time you stop, meddle with file so that the peers after connecting to the tracker remains the same.., but you can bypass the tracker tracking you and you can escape the ratio thing...

This is how the trackerless torrent d/l works.. trackers is just a way to check the usage and see who is connecting and other small things like see the ratio...



sba said:
Only a very few sites like bwtorrents have developed advanced methods (their admin is an excellent developer himself)
BwT has a very good site coderator, his name is redgoals, I am a member for a long time in there.. abt the admin who is cool ,I dont he is behind writing custom codes/hacks for their tracker.
Even Neowin's coderator make custom hacks for their IPB board. It's just requires good knowledge of that particular thing. They are rewriting the whole code to update to IPB 2.1 .
And BwT is not one among the few sites.. there are many sites like that. Most of the private trackers site make these foolproof codes for their trackers.



sba said:
Only a very few sites like bwtorrents have developed advanced methods (their admin is an excellent developer himself) of attaching hash values to their torrents which leads to every torrent getting identified as an individual user who actually downloaded the torrent from their site thus if a torrent is posted out of their site, they can check the logs and zero in on the user who did it but they also CAN NOT control the speed. It simply is not possible.
Every torrent file has a 16 bit hash code thing, whether you have d/l the file from BwT or Torrentspy or from mongo or torrentbox or any private tracker sites. I am 99% sure abt this.. you can see that from your client's details menu. It's upto the trackers to make use fo the hash for ratio purpose or limiting BW.

The hash code as you said is for identifing my IP with other IPs connected to the tracker, that why we can see the list of the IPs that are connected for the particular torrent.

Have you seen many ppl asking ways to bypass the tracker and then d/l? How can they do so? Just by meddling with the tracker's hash code alloted to you. Each time you d/l the file, the hash code changes, see for yourself.. leave alone BwT or private trackers, any public trackers allot different hash code every time you d/l the file. No two hash codes are same.

How can say that they can't control/limit the speeds? Just because I was not able to prove?


Also take a look here:
http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=190928#190928
icecoolz said:
Like DrGrudge mentioned some server restrict your download speeds. Depending on your upload speed and so on.
Dont bump that thread up.

Hope you get the drift as what I wanted to say...
 

sba

Journeyman
drgrudge said:
I can't explain more than this. :|
lol!!!
you don't need to, cos you have no idea what you are talking about.

----------

I have seen the mods/admins at BwT telling that they got a custom mod at their forum, which can actually do this.
Stop spreading the FUD man. BwT admins would never say anything so stupid. Show me a single comment where ANY BwT admin/mod says that they can control speed and I will retract every word I wrote.

Take a simple example:
Use BitComet, you can ban IP for a certain amount of time or till you d/l the whole file. If a client can do, why can't a tracker?
lol!!! Talk about logic, eh? Dude i can control what is flowing through my system but I can't control BT network. I can block or reduce speed to a particular IP from MY SYSTEM but I can not give instructions to your system to do the same. It is same with trackers. They can BLOCK a particular IP/User to connect to them but they can not make every seed/peer to do the same and can never control speeds.

You know aradi site? It's a private tracker till some back (now I think it's public), we simply can't d/l without being a member.
What are you talking about??? Ofcourse you can d/l by using DHT from Aradi.

BwT has a very good site coderator, his name is redgoals, I am a member for a long time in there
You are a member for long and you don't know who is tracker admin? It is not redgoals...it is Dev. redgoals codes for the forums.

Every torrent file has a 16 bit hash code thing, whether you have d/l the file from BwT or Torrentspy or from mongo or torrentbox or any private tracker sites. I am 99% sure abt this.. you can see that from your client's details menu. It's upto the trackers to make use fo the hash for ratio purpose or limiting BW.
No sir, that is not true. Every torrent has 20 bytes of info hash which is generated at the time of creating the torrent. This helps the tracker in individually recognising the TORRENT in its database, to check the description, number of seeders and number of peers. Tracker recognises each peer using peer_id which is generated by the client when a download is started. Combining info_hash with peer_id helps a tracker to associate a particular peer with a torrent and show it statistics by using uploaded and downloaded keys sent along with every GET request by the client. There is NOTHING...absolutely nothing in info_hash that can help tracker to even recognise a peer individually (forget about limiting bandwidth) rather it is peer_id. Even by combining both these things a tracker can make no combination to control the speed at which a peer will download. On the other hand BwT issues an additional hash along with every torrent which is used to recognise every torrent as an individual user thus you can see user names in torrent statistics on BwT instead of the commonly viewed IPs on other networks. You really need to get your facts straight.

How can say that they can't control/limit the speeds? Just because I was not able to prove?
You have not given me even a single proving point except writing some half cooked stuff.

Also take a look here:
Whats there to look?
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
@sba,
Forget it. IMO what I posted is correct. I am off this thread. I want to argue at some stupid coments by you and you are hell bent on certain things and dont want to understand also... :p
I dont want to waste my time on this thread... ppl who use torrent extensively will know better, thats it... I am off.
 

sba

Journeyman
drgrudge said:
@sba,
Forget it. IMO what I posted is correct. I am off this thread. I want to argue at some stupid coments by you and you are hell bent on certain things and dont want to understand also
Oh yeah right...stupid comments.
Either we should take bullshit from you or else it is stupidity. Quite comfortable :lol:
Ok kid go out and play then.
 

Charley

Just Do It
drgrudge said:
Obviosuly the date when it was created matters, the longer the torrent file, less healty it is.


Totally WRONG information. :roll:

It depends on the leechers and seeders of that torrent . I have d/l'ed numerous torrents 2 years older with no problem[health and speed] :lol:

NOTE - Depends on the leechers and seeders

dr.grudge said:
No, it is not abt the no. of peers. I am telling that we wont get many peers after years of creation of the torrent.
The older the torrent, the less popular the torrent.

Who said so? :lol:

An example I'd put forth. If there is a torrent music file like Iron Maiden [Powerslave], does it mean that since it is old that there wont be any one popularity today? :roll:

Infact FYI many of my m8's have d/l'ed the files 35 times within 2 days. And BTW it is a very old torrent created on 20-12-2003.
 

ctrl_alt_del

A Year Closer To Heaven
@sba & achacko: If you both have a difference of opinion with any of the members here, please discuss about via the excellent PM system that the forum has. Please spare the thread. All offtopic posts made you bitching about Grudge have been deleted. Any repeat will earn you a warning tag.

@achacko: Please take a moment to think before you decide to report a thread. If you think the thread is misleading, voice it right here or contact the person who is "misleading" it. Also once you have reported the thread, there is no need to advertise about it with another post. We know who reported it and why. Any such posts will be promptly deleted as well.

I advice you all to have a constructive arguement rather then having a flame fest. Grudge politely withdrew before things became ugly...I advice you to do the same. Voice your opinions, but respect others as well. And if you both disagree with any of these comments, please PM me to sort it out.
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
sba said:
drgrudge said:
@sba,
Forget it. IMO what I posted is correct. I am off this thread. I want to argue at some stupid coments by you and you are hell bent on certain things and dont want to understand also
Oh yeah right...stupid comments.
Either we should take **** from you or else it is stupidity. Quite comfortable :lol:
Ok kid go out and play then.
Hmm... mr. sba on a warning for a week. Why do you wanna post stupid coments, man If I am member, I would have broke hell in this thread, as a mod I dont want to play with kids and members. :twisted:


@achacko@dataone.in,
I just saw your comments with your report..., you think you post correctly all the time? You have been warned atleast 2 times and banned once. Watch your words.


@others,
If others fell what I posted the age of torrent is false, plz PM me. Or if you feel what I said is correct, also PM me :D


Enough.. I am closing this thread.
@cody,
I would like to know what they posted, plz PM me.


Thread closed
 

Raaabo

Emperor
Staff member
Admin
Am I the only one who understood what Grudge meant?

The newer a torrent, more people with high bandwidth seeding. It's not a rule, it's a law of probability... people seed till their share ratio hits a certain level. So a guy with a 100 Mbit connection will probably seed till the shareratio is 10, but that takes no more than 2 weeks, even for a 5 GB DVD, then he removes the torrent... simple....

A guy with, say, 1 Mbps speeds will also probably think 4 or 5 is a good share ratio, but he will have to seed for a month..... a guy with 256k or 128k speeds will prefer a max of 2 as his share ratio (mostly 1), but reaching 1 on that speed takes 2 months sometimes, and that's why he's still seeding. So chances are older torrents have slower seeders connected, thus probability dictates that the older a torrent, the slower the swarm speeds... It's not a RULE, but it's what you will see most often.

I don't understand what all the fighting was about, and I think the warnings were valid.. If I had seen this earlier I would have banned or deleted some accounts, personally.

Opening this thread again because it is interesting, and I would like to warn people against flaming... now I will receive notifications of posts here and will definitely ban flamers.

Also, DrGrudge, replace those images with an image of you downloading a legal torrent... let's steer clear of piracy please...

Raaabo
 

rachitar

Journeyman
Raaabo said:
Am I the only one who understood what Grudge meant?

I understood it and have been following the same idea since a long time i.e. go for torrents which are fresh
But didnt wanna get into an argument
There is no point arguing when the other party starts calling people fool and refuses to understand
 

siriusb

Cyborg Agent
Exactly. Even after I posted an explaination much similar to what raabo had posted, there was no satifaction. I even would've thought that sba was drgrudge's another ID and he is doing this on purpose for a joke, but since I don't know enough about that VBTT thing, I doubted that.
So, since one point is, hopefully, cleared up, why do't we have definitive proof for that tracker control thing from either of the parties. Then we can learn something. Frankly, I wonder how a tracker can ask other peers to decrease their upload speed to a particular peer. The most the tracker can do is just 'track' the speeds. Or maybe refuse tracking for that peer altogether. But, as I am ignorant of the php mod's working, let's hear the real explaination.
 
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