Sony PlayStation 4 discussion | Trolls will be banned

Akira

Akira

Augmented Nerd
ico said:
Hasn't even taken birth lol.
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Not really. BF4, Thief, and Star Citizen are slated to be running on Mantle(BF4 patch coming soon). In fact, EA(or was it DICE:confused:) announced that all future titles will optimize systems using mantle, soo...let's see.
 
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vickybat

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
It won't be frostbite to mantle but DX11 to mantle.
In the options, you can select Mantle instead of DX as an alternate render path.
It's the same way how we used to switch multiple versions of DX (DX9, DX10, DX11)in the Menu settings.

Mantle is a low level graphics API, while frostbite is a game engine. The aim is to bring console level game optimizations to PC.
 
sam_738844

sam_738844

Wise Old Owl
vicky, please enlighten me, how is console level game optimization is better than that of PC's and why, Is it because most games are ported and hence glitched? because visually till now the lean towards PC gaming is authentic with obvious FPS reasons.
 
Akira

Akira

Augmented Nerd
sam_738844 said:
vicky, please enlighten me, how is console level game optimization is better than that of PC's and why, Is it because most games are ported and hence glitched? because visually till now the lean towards PC gaming is authentic with obvious FPS reasons.
Click to expand...

It's rather obvious really. We all have different mobos, graphic cards, amount of ram(with diffrent frequencies and latencies), audio cards, different OS; and a lot more. Hundreds and Hundreds of combinations of hardware, where a single component might create glitches...who knows??

And then you have the consoles where programmers always code for a hardware that never really changes(majority of the people don't throw buy custom consoles), they get experience coding after a few months and the game runs at 30fps with NO higher resolution textures, anti-aliasing, more advanced lighting effects, Depth of Field and Ambient Occlusion, more advanced Post-Processing, and Tessellation, as well a the ability to render the game at much higher resolutions than 720p.

Why was there so much hubaloo over Xbone not able to run CODGhosts at 1080p otherwise. Even in next gen, consoles will never match PCs at graphics/performance. But they more than make up for it in different exclusives.
 
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vickybat

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
sam_738844 said:
vicky, please enlighten me, how is console level game optimization is better than that of PC's and why, Is it because most games are ported and hence glitched? because visually till now the lean towards PC gaming is authentic with obvious FPS reasons.
Click to expand...

Well its quite simple if you look at the big picture. Consoles have a fixed set of hardware throughout their lifetime. From a development perspective, i'll give a quote from an article that i gave in the Wii U thread.

But first, let's go back to the beginning. The genesis of a new games console generally follows a standard pattern. Initially there is a prolonged period of research and development internally within a manufacturer where the goals and hardware designs are sketched out. These then go through a process of refinement with the hardware parts manufacturers, based on their technology and, obviously, cost.

Once the basic hardware design has been thrashed out, the internal software (SDK) teams get involved in writing the initial code/drivers and tests that are required to run the hardware. Once the teams are happy with the hardware, cost and timelines, the companies start to go out and talk to developers about the new hardware.

To begin with this will be first-party developers and feedback will be gathered that may, or may not, affect the design of the hardware. At this stage the hardware design can be changed, but the window of opportunity is getting smaller. The hardware parts manufacturers have to ramp up their production lines to produce the silicon, which takes time.

After initial feedback, the studio 'tours' begin, talking to select third-party publishers, the Ubisoft, Take-Two and EAs of the world, that the platform holders need to entice to make games for their consoles. Without games, and the income that they provide, the console soon starts to lose money, becoming a noose around the manufacturer's neck.

Major changes at this point are rare, unless they are things that can be altered through software changes (clock speeds, system OS time-slices, etc.) or can be 'easily' added to the hardware design, for example swapping out one set of memory modules for another of higher capacity.
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Now you should have a brief idea what i mean. The fact is, hardware and software designers for a console work in union. They have time and resources to design their own thing and develop system software and API to use that hardware efficiently. The API's developed in this process is of extreme low level, that can almost directly talk with the hardware. I don't know the entire technical details, as i'm no API developer, but this is how it is. In other words, the level of abstraction is far lower.

As a result, the IO operations and draw calls become highly optimized. By draw calls, i mean the commands that tell a GPU to draw the units(vertices) on a frame.Knowing the hardware better results in more number of draw calls.

The API might also have some rendering methods that work better on a particular hardware, that a game engine needs to call.

In case of Direct X , Microsoft provides generic methods that works on a wide set of hardware. But the low level API method will be a better performer than the generic one for a particular hardware. Its all about developing something that works well for a particular hardware set, against developing something that is generic and works for all. Both have their pros and cons. But the former will always have the performance advantage, and Mantle plans to do the same for GCN.

This explains how stone age consoles like PS3 and Xbox 360 can still produce graphics like "The Last Of Us" and "Halo 4".

I hope i'm clear. :)

Sony Patents A New And Strange Controller Design, New AR Applications
 
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Extreme Gamer

Extreme Gamer

僕はガンダム！
Vendor
Knowing the hardware better results in more number of draw calls.
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Please elaborate on this.

anirbandd said:
even sony and microsoft have their own tools for development, similar to mantle, but custom.
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The tools they offer devs aren't that low level.

anirbandd said:
a patch that will convert bf4 from frostbite to mantle?? not so soon i guess ;)
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More correctly it would be from DirectX to Mantle.
 
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vickybat

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Sony Engineer Compares PS4 to Formula 1 Car; Shares Detailed Schematics and Info on Cooling Solution

Nice and informative schematic designs that explain the airflow.
 
anirbandd

anirbandd

Conversation Architect
Re: 5 Reasons the PlayStation 4 Will Be a Must Own Console for Gamers

Sorry.. I'm more of a hardware guy and certaintly not a software guy. Cant decipher sdk. :p
 
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vickybat

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Re: 5 Reasons the PlayStation 4 Will Be a Must Own Console for Gamers

anirbandd said:
Sorry.. I'm more of a hardware guy and certaintly not a software guy. Cant decipher sdk. :p
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I'm a software guy and man i'm telling you, unless you're a first hand technically sound game developer/system programmer , working in AAA studios or even
a respectable indie developer with tons of first hand experience, there's no way you can tell the differences between PS3 and mantle sdk and tell which one is deeper and which one is not... and that too, by just looking at them :p

Besides, PS3 sdk's along with Mantle are proprietary. There's no way a common man can obtain the sdk's along with the documentation detailing their working.
Unless, you have some relatives working internally with Sony or AMD. :p

There are some lightweight homebrew sdk's available for developing homebrew applications. But they won't give you any detailed insight to the topic at hand.
Don't be intimidated mate. These things are not that easy to decipher, even for the elite developers. :)

25 Games That Will Push Graphical Boundaries In 2014

Great list. Good to see some indie names making it in there.
 
anirbandd

anirbandd

Conversation Architect
Re: 5 Reasons the PlayStation 4 Will Be a Must Own Console for Gamers

vickybat said:
I'm a software guy and man i'm telling you, unless you're a first hand technically sound game developer/system programmer , working in AAA studios or even
a respectable indie developer with tons of first hand experience, there's no way you can tell the differences between PS3 and mantle sdk and tell which one is deeper and which one is not... and that too, by just looking at them :p

Besides, PS3 sdk's along with Mantle are proprietary. There's no way a common man can obtain the sdk's along with the documentation detailing their working.
Unless, you have some relatives working internally with Sony or AMD. :p

There are some lightweight homebrew sdk's available for developing homebrew applications. But they won't give you any detailed insight to the topic at hand.
Don't be intimidated mate. These things are not that easy to decipher, even for the elite developers. :)

25 Games That Will Push Graphical Boundaries In 2014

Great list. Good to see some indie names making it in there.
Click to expand...

Oh.. Then... How..

Well ok. :p
 
Cilus

Cilus

laborare est orare
The suggestion of understanding API was like looking at the Processor and get the inside architecture of it, no matter how many billion transistors it has..:) :)
 
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vickybat

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Microsoft On 1st Party Studios: Naughty Dog Is "A Special Studio", "They Are Unique"

So true. :)

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The game looks incredible.

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vickybat

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
EXCLUSIVE: Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition PS4/XONE Framerates Revealed

PS4 version runs at 1080p and 60 fps.
 
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