*** Science Or God? ***
Re: ***science Or God?***
I am not mocking you in condescension. I think such claims are a bit too far-fetched. I'll quote a line from the Holy Bible:
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1[/FONT]
To have faith in something itself means to believe in something that has no proof, as far as religion goes - one is expected to follow it blindly. A human cannot give birth to 100 offsprings, if nature has its way. Yet making a factual assumption on such myths to draw conclusions, and relating it with modern progressive science defeats the very purpose of having faith in it in the first place. (If Kauravas were cloned, did Gandhari ordered all the physicians/doctors of her time to be executed? The Ayurveda speaks of skin grafts and plastic surgery... did they forget to add pointers on cloning?)
I agree with your views though that the process of scientific discovery and understanding has a long way to go. But I deem it unwise to explore religious scriptures with an intention of finding justifiable scientific answers to certain bygone events.
I marvel at your ability to draw parallels between two eras viz. myth and present. The type of technological and medical advancements that are claimed to have been existed then... Wow!jal_desai said:
I am not mocking you in condescension. I think such claims are a bit too far-fetched. I'll quote a line from the Holy Bible:
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1[/FONT]
To have faith in something itself means to believe in something that has no proof, as far as religion goes - one is expected to follow it blindly. A human cannot give birth to 100 offsprings, if nature has its way. Yet making a factual assumption on such myths to draw conclusions, and relating it with modern progressive science defeats the very purpose of having faith in it in the first place. (If Kauravas were cloned, did Gandhari ordered all the physicians/doctors of her time to be executed? The Ayurveda speaks of skin grafts and plastic surgery... did they forget to add pointers on cloning?)
I agree with your views though that the process of scientific discovery and understanding has a long way to go. But I deem it unwise to explore religious scriptures with an intention of finding justifiable scientific answers to certain bygone events.
planetcall
Indian by heart
Re: ***science Or God?***
^^ Apollo,
I appreciate your post as you have not posted something completely illogical as many others. I would love to reply to your point.
First you have to refine some of your knowledge about vedas. Vedas are not the text of science written in simple paras as we find in modern age text books. They were written by people with exotic talent and it follows the trait of encryption of that time. We have many sanskrit shlokas and sutras well clubbed into tiny rhymes. You know why ? There are many answers to it but for general understanding I would say that it makes it interesting and easy to learn. Veda contains plethora of knowledge all in the form of those sutras. I have cited some examples before in this thread (sapta rashmi...). You have to unearth those hidden knowledge pieces and have to understand it. If you are a lay person like many others then veda itself on first glance seems nothing but chants written to please gods. But there is more to it. People dont know because they never have the motivation or the time to look into it.
Exploration of past for something unbelievable is not completely wrong because you got reasons for it. The reasons which you have to agree. Lets not talk of gandhari and 100 sons. Talk of our astrology. I am taking this example because this tradition has followed until today with many of its ancient science inherited in it. Tell me how they found the planets and its various scientific attributes like angle of axis,speed,rotation and revolution times,color etc. You have to agree that they had this information milleniums before gallileo. They didnt have telescope. So, try to think what could have existed and how it could have lost. Story tells of Duryodhana hiding inside the pond in a bubble after the battle. You see....it is not yet possible but i see it in near future with some advance chemistry involved. Also, see the example of Vedic mathematics. most of it is lost but still we have a few glimpses left of it. Nikhilam Ch and ekadhiken purven , are one of the most powerful sutras in it which are repeated and reused in variety of scenarios. Similar is the case with most of our ancient books. Think buddy. I dont say you agree to me, rather I would ask you to ponder and be logical in your approach.
^^ Apollo,
I appreciate your post as you have not posted something completely illogical as many others. I would love to reply to your point.
First you have to refine some of your knowledge about vedas. Vedas are not the text of science written in simple paras as we find in modern age text books. They were written by people with exotic talent and it follows the trait of encryption of that time. We have many sanskrit shlokas and sutras well clubbed into tiny rhymes. You know why ? There are many answers to it but for general understanding I would say that it makes it interesting and easy to learn. Veda contains plethora of knowledge all in the form of those sutras. I have cited some examples before in this thread (sapta rashmi...). You have to unearth those hidden knowledge pieces and have to understand it. If you are a lay person like many others then veda itself on first glance seems nothing but chants written to please gods. But there is more to it. People dont know because they never have the motivation or the time to look into it.
Exploration of past for something unbelievable is not completely wrong because you got reasons for it. The reasons which you have to agree. Lets not talk of gandhari and 100 sons. Talk of our astrology. I am taking this example because this tradition has followed until today with many of its ancient science inherited in it. Tell me how they found the planets and its various scientific attributes like angle of axis,speed,rotation and revolution times,color etc. You have to agree that they had this information milleniums before gallileo. They didnt have telescope. So, try to think what could have existed and how it could have lost. Story tells of Duryodhana hiding inside the pond in a bubble after the battle. You see....it is not yet possible but i see it in near future with some advance chemistry involved. Also, see the example of Vedic mathematics. most of it is lost but still we have a few glimpses left of it. Nikhilam Ch and ekadhiken purven , are one of the most powerful sutras in it which are repeated and reused in variety of scenarios. Similar is the case with most of our ancient books. Think buddy. I dont say you agree to me, rather I would ask you to ponder and be logical in your approach.
J
jp23
Guest
Re: ***science Or God?***
First i'll ask a question; I stumbled upon this site during my daily misadventuring on the 'net - Is this a predominantly Indian occupied website? If so, you'll have to excuse the presence of my luminous white ass for now, at least until the topic of conversation changes.
Secondly, the brunt of my discussion. I'm not so narrow minded to believe i could offer a complete, comprehensive answer to perhaps the number one question of human kind. However, i will call things how i see them, and the first flaw in the arguement upon this board is this - Science is not in conflict with God, because in order for there to be a debate between the existence of God and science, science's existence would reasonably have to be in question. We all know that science exists, we see it's tangible proof every time we log on to the computer, among countless other activities that indeed rely upon the advances of our technological pursuit.
So for me, it's not a question of science's existence, but *where* science aligns itself with the greater power. I'm a Christian, and i don't mind saying that even though it might garner some opposition from the atheists around. Bluntly speaking, my belief is that God didn't give us science, God gave us analytical minds and a world full of choice - from there it was probably inevitable that science would come to fruition. I believe that the presence of science in our world leads to the conclusion that our scientific journey of discovery is intended to lead us to the existence of God. Believe it or not, there's an increasingly popular school of thought among some scientists that practiced atheism for the majority of their scientific careers that, at the end of their life's work they draw a personal conclusion; Divine Intelligence is the only viable answer to all the ominous questions surrounding our existence. I would tend to agree.
It's a sweeping generalisation of the topic at hand, but it's one that allows me to live my life without pondering unanswerable questions on a daily basis. Faith isn't about having tangible proof; The proof for me came when i really questioned what my beliefs were, peeled back all the levels of subconsious padding that my negative life experiences had put up and discovered at the very core of my existence was a soul. And there isn't a question penetrating enough that could make me question God's existence after an experience like that.
J.P.
First i'll ask a question; I stumbled upon this site during my daily misadventuring on the 'net - Is this a predominantly Indian occupied website? If so, you'll have to excuse the presence of my luminous white ass for now, at least until the topic of conversation changes.
Secondly, the brunt of my discussion. I'm not so narrow minded to believe i could offer a complete, comprehensive answer to perhaps the number one question of human kind. However, i will call things how i see them, and the first flaw in the arguement upon this board is this - Science is not in conflict with God, because in order for there to be a debate between the existence of God and science, science's existence would reasonably have to be in question. We all know that science exists, we see it's tangible proof every time we log on to the computer, among countless other activities that indeed rely upon the advances of our technological pursuit.
So for me, it's not a question of science's existence, but *where* science aligns itself with the greater power. I'm a Christian, and i don't mind saying that even though it might garner some opposition from the atheists around. Bluntly speaking, my belief is that God didn't give us science, God gave us analytical minds and a world full of choice - from there it was probably inevitable that science would come to fruition. I believe that the presence of science in our world leads to the conclusion that our scientific journey of discovery is intended to lead us to the existence of God. Believe it or not, there's an increasingly popular school of thought among some scientists that practiced atheism for the majority of their scientific careers that, at the end of their life's work they draw a personal conclusion; Divine Intelligence is the only viable answer to all the ominous questions surrounding our existence. I would tend to agree.
It's a sweeping generalisation of the topic at hand, but it's one that allows me to live my life without pondering unanswerable questions on a daily basis. Faith isn't about having tangible proof; The proof for me came when i really questioned what my beliefs were, peeled back all the levels of subconsious padding that my negative life experiences had put up and discovered at the very core of my existence was a soul. And there isn't a question penetrating enough that could make me question God's existence after an experience like that.
J.P.
planetcall
Indian by heart
Re: ***science Or God?***
What is Science ??? It is the law of GOD. We can think of it as the rules defined by the almighty for the events to happen in this universe. See how one event is related to each other. Now we know that a coin tossed in air does have an effect on the asteroid near jupiter
, though it is negligible or infinitely small but certainly not NULL. Study of Science indeed makes you believe in the ultimate divinity even more. Indian Philosophy has stated it since beginning. The concept of soul and you being a part of that divinity is one of the core concepts of our Civilization. Knowing self is one of the steps towards enlightenment. A body, a chain of reactions, skeleton and the rest doesnt make this body a living object. There is something which is me, the very absence of which makes my body equivalent to any other object of this universe. I am distinct because that very entity exists in me.
Certainly, the concept of the soul is another proof of the existence of GOD. You were blessed to ponder over that question.
What is Science ??? It is the law of GOD. We can think of it as the rules defined by the almighty for the events to happen in this universe. See how one event is related to each other. Now we know that a coin tossed in air does have an effect on the asteroid near jupiter
, though it is negligible or infinitely small but certainly not NULL. Study of Science indeed makes you believe in the ultimate divinity even more. Indian Philosophy has stated it since beginning. The concept of soul and you being a part of that divinity is one of the core concepts of our Civilization. Knowing self is one of the steps towards enlightenment. A body, a chain of reactions, skeleton and the rest doesnt make this body a living object. There is something which is me, the very absence of which makes my body equivalent to any other object of this universe. I am distinct because that very entity exists in me.Certainly, the concept of the soul is another proof of the existence of GOD. You were blessed to ponder over that question.
tuxfan
Technomancer
Re: ***science Or God?***
I have recently read quite a few things on this topic I shall post in detail some day soon when I have time.
Has anyone heard about Pascal's Wager? In addition to Wikipedia, there is a lot of material on this topic. Google it up. It gave me 300,000 links on the topic.
I have recently read quite a few things on this topic
I shall post in detail some day soon when I have time.Has anyone heard about Pascal's Wager? In addition to Wikipedia, there is a lot of material on this topic. Google it up. It gave me 300,000 links on the topic.
P
Poon
Guest
Re: ***science Or God?***
Hinduism has all the answers. God in Christian sense the father who came to earth and screwed a virgin is false. That means god is man and so we are discriminating women. ALL BASED ON FALSE BELIEFS AND FALSE FAITHS. OURS IS THE MOTHER OF ALL FAITHS. OF COURSE TODAY IT HAS BECOME CORRUPTED AND SPOILT SO I AM AN ATHIEST.
Hinduism has all the answers. God in Christian sense the father who came to earth and screwed a virgin is false. That means god is man and so we are discriminating women. ALL BASED ON FALSE BELIEFS AND FALSE FAITHS. OURS IS THE MOTHER OF ALL FAITHS. OF COURSE TODAY IT HAS BECOME CORRUPTED AND SPOILT SO I AM AN ATHIEST.
planetcall
Indian by heart
Re: ***science Or God?***
Poon, I would like to tell you that we are discussing over the existence of god and the concept of it that we all have. In this context, it would not be good if we start commenting over religions. There are certain things in every religion that might seem unacceptable to someone but we should not criticize it openly as you did. Indeed our religion is for all ("SANATAN DHARM") but it doesnt mean that people cant pursue their own faiths. Our religion has not been corrupted but yes, the stagnation it has reached to is detrimental. We will have to choose the evolutionary path so that we continue to flourish. Thatswhy I say, for the progress and prosperity we need to see towards our past and learn from it.
As per you, since your religion has spoilt and corrupted so you are an atheist. I dont accept that logic buddy. Try to know what your religion is. Our interpretations can be different. I myself do not believe in idol worship but I dont mind going to temples and or worshiping the idols. Our religion has so many branches and so many paths to salvation. Why dont you look for the one that suits you most ?
Poon, I would like to tell you that we are discussing over the existence of god and the concept of it that we all have. In this context, it would not be good if we start commenting over religions. There are certain things in every religion that might seem unacceptable to someone but we should not criticize it openly as you did. Indeed our religion is for all ("SANATAN DHARM") but it doesnt mean that people cant pursue their own faiths. Our religion has not been corrupted but yes, the stagnation it has reached to is detrimental. We will have to choose the evolutionary path so that we continue to flourish. Thatswhy I say, for the progress and prosperity we need to see towards our past and learn from it.
As per you, since your religion has spoilt and corrupted so you are an atheist. I dont accept that logic buddy. Try to know what your religion is. Our interpretations can be different. I myself do not believe in idol worship but I dont mind going to temples and or worshiping the idols. Our religion has so many branches and so many paths to salvation. Why dont you look for the one that suits you most ?
OP
naveen_reloaded
!! RecuZant By Birth !!
Re: ***science Or God?***
one thing really sad is that we live in a advanced world and still we believe in myths and rumours.....
why cant we get our hand dirty and see for ourselves there is nothing a thing called GOd exist....and it does in the wold of creativity....
mahabaratha and ramayana are the worlds superior story with all the rich essence and creativity...
why did they create such an epic???
well the answer is simple .... if i tell u to do something...U wont do it...
but if i tell that doing that thing will bring wealth and fortune in ur future..(whether it happens or not is still bound to probabilty) u will definetly do it.....
thats is why they created ...those days people are really ignorant...and to teach is really hard...so there came the creative philosophy...where there is not limit for ur tales...just like harry potter,lord of the rings triology...
do u think harry Potter exist....if u do yes ..u should definetly consult a DOC!!!
if no then u should be damn sure that god also doesnt exist...
GUYS WHERE IS THE REALLY PROOF OF LIFE FOR GOD...???
let us do good thing...WE ARE GOD!!!!
one thing really sad is that we live in a advanced world and still we believe in myths and rumours.....
why cant we get our hand dirty and see for ourselves there is nothing a thing called GOd exist....and it does in the wold of creativity....
mahabaratha and ramayana are the worlds superior story with all the rich essence and creativity...
why did they create such an epic???
well the answer is simple .... if i tell u to do something...U wont do it...
but if i tell that doing that thing will bring wealth and fortune in ur future..(whether it happens or not is still bound to probabilty) u will definetly do it.....
thats is why they created ...those days people are really ignorant...and to teach is really hard...so there came the creative philosophy...where there is not limit for ur tales...just like harry potter,lord of the rings triology...
do u think harry Potter exist....if u do yes ..u should definetly consult a DOC!!!
if no then u should be damn sure that god also doesnt exist...
GUYS WHERE IS THE REALLY PROOF OF LIFE FOR GOD...???
let us do good thing...WE ARE GOD!!!!
planetcall
Indian by heart
Re: ***science Or God?***
^^^ Naveen_reloaded, In this thread , there already have been written many evidences to prove the reality of the epics which you are thinking to be myth. The believe in myth you talking has already been answered by many others before in this thread. I would like if you could reply to those facts and logics instead of just putting what already has been nullified by logic.
^^^ Naveen_reloaded, In this thread , there already have been written many evidences to prove the reality of the epics which you are thinking to be myth. The believe in myth you talking has already been answered by many others before in this thread. I would like if you could reply to those facts and logics instead of just putting what already has been nullified by logic.
mihirvashist
Journeyman
Re: ***science Or God?***
science is my choice....who has ever seen god in the first place
science is my choice....who has ever seen god in the first place
Arsenal_Gunners
Human Spambot
Re: ***science Or God?***
superstitions lol
superstitions lol
planetcall
Indian by heart
Re: ***science Or God?***
Mihir, My question to you is to interpret GOD. Do it here and let me know what you mean by your remark there. An orphan has not seen his mother. Surely, he was born without a mother, isnt it ? Take time to go through all the posts in this thread.
Vimal_mehrotra, you are a Fresh Stock. Learn how not to SHT around.
Mihir, My question to you is to interpret GOD. Do it here and let me know what you mean by your remark there. An orphan has not seen his mother. Surely, he was born without a mother, isnt it ? Take time to go through all the posts in this thread.
Vimal_mehrotra, you are a Fresh Stock. Learn how not to SHT around.
caleb
Ambassador of Buzz
Re: ***science Or God?***
Scinece is a witness to the existence of God in everything that we see & discover...so how can I choose science over God?
Do not take offense...but believing ONLY in science, for me, is like beng the Businessman in the story below:
"Ah, the simple life!"
An American businessman was at the pier of a small Mexican coastal village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.”
The American then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish.
The fisherman said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.
The American then asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife Maria. Then I stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life, señor.”
The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise.”
The fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?”
”Fifteen or twenty years.”
“But what then, señor?”
The American laughed and said, “That's the best part. When the time is right you would sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions.”
“Millions, señor? Then what?”
The American said, “Then you would retire and move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your grandchildren, take siesta with your wife Maria, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
Scinece is a witness to the existence of God in everything that we see & discover...so how can I choose science over God?
Do not take offense...but believing ONLY in science, for me, is like beng the Businessman in the story below:
"Ah, the simple life!"
An American businessman was at the pier of a small Mexican coastal village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.”
The American then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish.
The fisherman said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.
The American then asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife Maria. Then I stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life, señor.”
The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise.”
The fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?”
”Fifteen or twenty years.”
“But what then, señor?”
The American laughed and said, “That's the best part. When the time is right you would sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions.”
“Millions, señor? Then what?”
The American said, “Then you would retire and move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your grandchildren, take siesta with your wife Maria, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
planetcall
Indian by heart
Re: ***science Or God?***
Caleb, truly said buddy. It all depends on one's interpretation of GOD. I don't see science being distinct from God itself. I need not emphasize much as it is posted already by me in this thread.
Caleb, truly said buddy. It all depends on one's interpretation of GOD. I don't see science being distinct from God itself. I need not emphasize much as it is posted already by me in this thread.
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mihirvashist
Journeyman
Re: ***science Or God?***
i didn't want 2 hurt anybody's feelings but still it is something i can't explain ...even if there is god i don't trust him ...i don't know why or maybe i know but can't express
planetcall said:
i didn't want 2 hurt anybody's feelings but still it is something i can't explain ...even if there is god i don't trust him ...i don't know why or maybe i know but can't express
Aberforth
The Internationalist
Re: ***science Or God?***
Do you really think so? I am an Atheist and I studied every religious book I can get hold of. Buddhism is the only religion which does not discriminate against science nor encourage it.
It is ironic, scientists don't need to explain science to relate with religion but religion needs to explain religion to fit science. Humans tend to rationalize and ultimately prove what they want to believe even if its illogical when you try to simplify. Heck I can prove Lord of The Rings is the word of God if I really want to.
tuxfan said:
Do you really think so? I am an Atheist and I studied every religious book I can get hold of. Buddhism is the only religion which does not discriminate against science nor encourage it.
It is ironic, scientists don't need to explain science to relate with religion but religion needs to explain religion to fit science. Humans tend to rationalize and ultimately prove what they want to believe even if its illogical when you try to simplify. Heck I can prove Lord of The Rings is the word of God if I really want to.
Y
yzoc
Guest
Re: ***science Or God?***
Science or God?
This sentence need to be reformulated to:
"G". God ?
"N". No God ?
&
"I". "No Science" (or science is an illusion) ?
"C". "Created Science" ?
"F". "Forever Pre-Existed Science" ?
And now, the right question is which of following combinations is right: "G"-"I", "G"-"C", "G"-"F", "N"-"I", "N"-"C", and "N"-"F"?
Moreover, Since the science we know in our days is not able to prove with physical evidences neither "A" nor "B" is the truth, Science need not to be comparable with God in the form of only "Science or God?"...
The science (we know) is too convincing due to our every day (material) needs. While, our soul is kind of too convinced that there is something out there (maybe a non-material) God.
So, the question could be rather:
- Does science (we know) be able to/will prove the existing/non-existing of God?
Or even maybe,
- Which one does science (we know) favor more: God or No God?
But, does it not look like if we are using something (such as science) based on our knowledge to prove something beyond our knowledge?
If God does exist based on the our actual reality, there is only his signs in this world that can be seen and interpreted, but not God HIMSelf.
Science or God?
This sentence need to be reformulated to:
"G". God ?
"N". No God ?
&
"I". "No Science" (or science is an illusion) ?
"C". "Created Science" ?
"F". "Forever Pre-Existed Science" ?
And now, the right question is which of following combinations is right: "G"-"I", "G"-"C", "G"-"F", "N"-"I", "N"-"C", and "N"-"F"?
Moreover, Since the science we know in our days is not able to prove with physical evidences neither "A" nor "B" is the truth, Science need not to be comparable with God in the form of only "Science or God?"...
The science (we know) is too convincing due to our every day (material) needs. While, our soul is kind of too convinced that there is something out there (maybe a non-material) God.
So, the question could be rather:
- Does science (we know) be able to/will prove the existing/non-existing of God?
Or even maybe,
- Which one does science (we know) favor more: God or No God?
But, does it not look like if we are using something (such as science) based on our knowledge to prove something beyond our knowledge?
If God does exist based on the our actual reality, there is only his signs in this world that can be seen and interpreted, but not God HIMSelf.