Pay the Hospital bills by body parts!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

din

Tribal Boy
Rohan, Ajith's cousin (Vinod) is working in a Bank (Temp Job I think), in the personal loan section or so.

He is taking care of the family now. As Ajith's father is not recovered from the shock yet and not back to normal condition.
 

din

Tribal Boy
I am not very sure, why ?

I talked to Ajith's mom over phone, talked to Vinod many times. Couldn't talk to Ajith's Dad yet. Vaithy went and met them all.

I think the family consists of Ajith's sis (got married, not staying with them), Ajith's parents and Vinod (may be he is staying with them after the incident)
 

victor_rambo

हॉर्न ओके प्लीज़
I am not very sure, why ?
I am asking this because anybody would like to know what help they are already receiving from their relatives. BTW do you know what salary he draws, does he have any other financial commitments or obligations?

I think the family consists of Ajith's sis (got married, not staying with them), Ajith's parents and Vinod (may be he is staying with them after the incident)
If that is true, how come there is no mention about his sister and her husband anywhere in the scene?


Also, there are many obvious discrepancies in the description of the background of this case. So I doubt what kind of response this initiative would get.

Where do Ajith's parent stay? How big is their house in comparison to their needs?

Don't be offended but I am asking this because there may be some alternative instead of urging the masses.

It is obvious information presented on the website or this thread is incomplete and would not convince the majority to be empathetic. May be you should update the info.
 

din

Tribal Boy
Rohan,

I really understand and no problem at all. Please feel free to ask.

I agree with you. Majority of people still think its a scam, it is very hard to convince them. And we can't blame them too. Main thing is - we have certain limitations in this.

First - I guess you have gone through the entire thread. My idea was to give more importance to help the family and not much into the hospital issues (reasons already explained in the posts). That makes it slightly weak in presenting.

Second - I tried to collect maximum information I can. Vaithy also tried his level best. But as you know, we can't ask for all details, like Vinod's financial condition or lot more about Ajith's family. We are not any media persons, they do not know us in real (they met only Vaithy in real, I contacted them only through phone). Another thing is, the family is not back to normal condition yet. When I talked to Ajith's mom, she couldn't even complete talking, she was crying half the time. So I couldn't ask a lot. And I do not think I will be able to ask a lot of questions to them :( I am helpless in that matter. And as you know (none of us are journalists or can't talk / ask like them) we have limitation asking too much personal information. So do not know how to collect additional info.

Third - The website is made very transparent, like it gives as much info as possible and never act as an intermediate. Still I know it is not adequate for people who think it is scam or it is unbelievable. I sent an email to many of my friends. Those who know me very well believed it, other friends never even replied.

After these forum posts, email, website, I thought of contacting the media. The main reason is, the newspaper company will not publish it based on what I say. They will enquire about it properly, in most cases they will go meet the family in person. And if they publish it, it will reach more people and people will believe it. That will sure help the family.

Another point

Some of my friends suggested, we can't keep a family only on donations. I know that and fully agree with it. Keep giving them donation and money will not solve the problem and that is not the way too. This is like a temp help. Vaithy mentioned this at the very beginning itself and I agreed to that too.

First we are trying to provide the help in emergency. Next is helping Ajith's Dad to get a job. That will sure make things better. As the old saying (Thanks to Goobi)

"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life."

Ultimately thats our aim.

Regarding Ajith's Sis and husband

Again, I am not sure. First I thought shes not married. When I talked to Ajith's mom, I asked about it. She told me she got married and not staying with them. When I called Vinod, I asked him the same thing and he also told me the same. As I mentioned before, there is no way to verify these from our side.

From what they said, it seems true.

Regarding their house - Vaithy will be ale to tell more about it. From his posts, it is clear they are in a pathetic condition. Like a very small house in a railway colony.

Finally, please feel free to post the alternatives you mentioned in this thread itself. It will sure help. As we are all new to such a situation. We never made a site like this before, never tried to help in this way (through forum, email, website etc). So every suggestion / comment / idea will be very helpful.

Thank you.
 
OP
V

vaithy

In the zone
Dear Rohan, thanks for u r query,

Since u r in Mumbai, if I am ask u to discribe Dharavi residents how do u say... Chet put railway side is actually worsethan Dharavi.. there are buffalos roaming along with pigs in that area.. Their house is rented place in one of portion in the ground floor there may be five or six portion on both the ground floor and first floor. their portion consist of three rooms one Cooking room 9 x9 feet, one centre room which serve as bedroom as well as sitting room (10 x 10 feet) and one Puja room which is smaller than other (6 x 8 feet)

When i visit their portion, one lady (around 30 years age) sleeping in the bed, where the father was seen lying on the ground Mother was sitting on the side of bed on my coming lady awaken and on mothers intruction gone inside the cooking room. After enquired about the boy's death I asked them any of their relative come to help them. Mother was despairly show upon sky, god only help us. Vinoth says he is employed, but temporary.. my visit is purely for asserting first hand account of the accidents, and get the copy of the document that the organs removed by the hospital. When i wrote the post i was misinformed by the co-workers that the father was the owner of small tea shop.
It was in the same idea i repeately ask the family to open their shop.. Vinoth told me they have no shop as the father was not the owner but the worker...
Also must of my first posting has some errors because they were told by the co-workers.. but later direct enquiry by me and din has corrected many in the subsequent posting

thanks,
vaithy
 

din

Tribal Boy
OK, I went to the newspaper office and back home now.

They listened to me and discussed it for sometime. I explained everything and told them it is not easy to convince the people etc. They agreed to it. They are ready to help it seems. But asked me to contact their Chennai office (as the incident happened in Chennai and the victim / family belongs to Chennai). I think they are right, usually they put news like that. I mean in the edition which belong to that area.

They gave the phone number of the person to be contacted in the Chennai office.

I will wait for your suggestions. Call him and tell him about it ? Or will it cause any problems to the family as infra said ?

Please suggest / comment on.
 

din

Tribal Boy
I am waiting for your suggestions before I contact the Chennai office (of the newspaper).

Shall I call them and give details ? Will it be a problem if the news appears in the Chennai edition ? I didn't mention anything about the hospital part when I talked to them.

Please comment on / suggest.
 
F

FilledVoid

Guest
Wow. I never thought this thread was about something like this. I usually think that most of the titles have some kind of weird joke in it and so I don't check them at all. Definitely sad news. I have read the details of the family and I will definitely take it upon me to do what I can for either of them. I am amazed at the effort you all have undertaken to do some good for the family in whatever way yopu have and are continuing to do so.

The reason most people query the authenticity of the issue is because in the current scenario every other email is some sad story waiting to rip you off. Genuine pleas for help tend to get drowned in the atrocious heaps of scams. Furthermore I don't know if many realize it but you don't actually have to donate money if you can't to help them out. Just telling this story to your friend or family and other members or a simple prayer may work wonders :) . (Please leave the religious flames if any out of this).

PS: Please deal with newspapers very carefully. If an ad were to tarnish the reputation of the hospital concerned , they will and I am 99% sure they will retaliate against the source , family or whoever. As far as I recall sources don't exactly get the same rights here in India as they would in US so you could be held liable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
V

vaithy

In the zone
Dear FilledVoid
The only reason why din want to contact the newspaper is to help the family which was affected, in this case news paper has far reaching audiences,, but at the same time we have to understand newspapers are not for charity neither for any social case.. they want to sell their paper.. so whatever the caution that the news paper reporter taken it for publishing , the final outcome may be different... A sensational where the hospital name is given promptly displayed will attract more readers, at that same time, it may hurt the family.... but if the news papers didn't publish the story then it 'll affect the credential of the story, and affect the chances of help to the family..
however if we let the things happened, like Ajith kumar 's story.. it may happen anyone's!.
Here is the some event's recorded in the Ajithkumar's death report.."1st Marchl 2008, at 11.44 P.M admitted with gasping wound in the head, and emergently intubated and resuciated, after evaluated,by N.S it was felt surgery intervention not beneficial, so surgery was not done. on 2-03-08 morning the brain stem dysfunctioned ( he was clinically brain dead) Visitors of BPO friends and relatives who had to see the boys body told that he appear dead on 02-3-08 it self. but the Hosptal announced the dead on 04-03-08 18-hrs.

from the report itself it is clear that the hospital didn't attempt to operated to arrest the head bleeding..Because as per legal angle only from the brain stem death cases they can get cadaver donations for their million dollars business..

Hospital may not interested for saving poor family members if the victims happened to be brain stem injured.. so far the only operation conducted by the hospital was the remobval of eyes, kidney, and heart'as donation'..or payment of hospital bills..
 

victor_rambo

हॉर्न ओके प्लीज़
@Vaithy ,din all other others involved:
Please don't lose the perspective of your initiative. You want to help the family. So please don't get stuck as "hospital had removed the body parts and printing the hospitals name would endanger the family" or focus on proving the misdeed of the hospital.

Is mentioning the removal of organs by hospital really so important? What if those organs won't have been removed? Would they have anything better ?

The hospital had legally acquired rights for removal of his organs. Ajith's father had signed the documents. If his father could not read the documents, then he should have consulted somebody before signing the documents. Once the documents are signed, the hospitals side is "clean and without fault".
 
F

FilledVoid

Guest
The hospital had legally acquired rights for removal of his organs. Ajith's father had signed the documents. If his father could not read the documents, then he should have consulted somebody before signing the documents. Once the documents are signed, the hospitals side is "clean and without fault".

Lets not go to the legal aspects of anything in this thread. A contract is only bound if it is done by "Free Consent." When a persons child's life is hanging by a thread I'd like to see how many actually read anything because I'm willing to bet that common sense goes out of the window at that moment.

Personally I prefer leaving any involvement of the hospital out. However my words were only as a piece of advice to Din :). You may take it in whatever way you see fit / unfit.
 
OP
V

vaithy

In the zone
Mr. Din and my objective in the case is same, but we approach the matter very differently.
Mr.Din want to help the family immediately, so he bought a domain name as well as created the website exculsively..
mine share is very little except providing basic news as well as single visit to the family residence, and getting the relevant documents copies..

from the start of this thread, r. Din strongly advised me to keep the name of the Hospital as well as approaching media persons, as it harm the family's cause..

But mine is different.. not only the flight of the Ajith's family to be brought to fore, the question of the cadaver transplantation methods , and methods adopted by the so called superspeciality Hospitals to get the body parts to be discussed.

Since must of the Hospitals are in guilty of adopting dubious methods, isolating the single hospital and naming it in public wouldn't serve any purpose,,,
However if we not discuss the Hospitals part, then it may give the green signal to them,
as the number of brain injury patients( who are also poor) may end up without gettiing any urgent medical help ended up giving up their death parts!
Ajith is now History for his family, what ever help given to the family he wouldn't come back again...
My concern is for the thousands of Ajith's cases may be buried in the deep vallet, and morguery 's chambers with out their........
 

din

Tribal Boy
Dear FilledVoid and Rohan

Thanks a lot for the suggestions and comments and thank you for participating in the discussion.

I agree with most of the points you posted.

And Vaithy, after re-reading the entire thread and reading some comments from infra_red_dude and other members, I think you are right too.

To make it clear from my side, here are my suggestions.

If we contact the newspaper people, I think it is better we do not mention the organ-donation part. The reason being, it is always better they (news paper) people go there directly, meet the family members, talk to them, get / see all details and then write about them (that is how they will do I think too, I mean verifying things).

I do not think the family will tell anything about the organ-donation part to the media. Main reason is there are no people who give a solid support to the family- like an active NGO who fight against injustice, or any political party, or a strong group of citizens or some group on which the family can depend. Also, the family may not be interested for a legal war as they are very poor and they are not at all sure whether it will be a success.

So what my point is, even though the organ-donation part is injustice and unethical, in this case we can't do much on that and there may not be use in telling the news paper people about it too. (Under high pressure the family had to sign all papers, and now again under pressure the family may deny the organ-donation part or they may not even talk about it to the media - reason : fear).

I think we will continue our efforts in spreading the word and trying to reach out people who will be ale to help the family and may be will try to get Ajith's Dad a small job.

Coming back to Vaithy's point again.

What Vaithy mentioned is a very important point. And Rohan, FilledVoid and Vaithy are right in this, I mean when we are in such a situation, we may not even read / look at the papers, we may sign the papers without realizing what they are.

For example, I lived in a village till the age of 15 yrs. And 80 to 90% of the people out there do not know English. They trust the Doctors and medical institutes like God. If the Doc or Hospital people ask them to sign something, they will do it without any question or hesitation. And they will not even think of finding a person who can read English first, translate what is written in that, analyze, then sign the papers.

What I meant is, there are thousands of such villages in India. There are millions of such people who blindly trust the hospitals and Doctors and some very unethical guys take advantage of it :(

We should do some thing in this regard. Apart form Ajith's case, we should think what we can do to help the people. Like a general awareness thing.

Also, Rohan, yes, it may not make a difference for most of the people if the person who is dead lost his organs or not. After all we are all going back to earth (funeral) one day, and whether we have organs (or not ) at that time does not matter. If we can donate some organs at that time, it will be nice too. But things are different in this case. The hospital people very tactically removed the organs which is sure injustice and unethical. Yes, they have written permission from the family, but that is a one-way contract. The family under pressure had to do it. Not by their will.

I think we should focus on two things now. (This is just my suggestion and no way a decision in this matter or final word. Please feel free to criticize / comment on )

1. Ajith's case - We should help the family in all ways we can.

2. We should make the common man aware of such injustice and unethical practices are going on in this country. We should think about what we can do in this matter, I mean education / awareness etc.
 

din

Tribal Boy
OK, seems all are busy (I was too busy last week too ! Swamped with work).

Anyway, I am not sure how to proceed, I fully understand the points other members mentioned and the concerns too.

As none of us are in a position to give solid support to the family (I mean legally, against hospital etc), I think the best thing is to ask the news paper people to contact the family in person and talk to them. I think they will do it anyway - they may not give an article in news paper without verifying it.

Another thing is, they may not be able to put it in Kerala editions - reasons we can quite understand. So only way is to contact the Chennai office of the news paper.

Here is my plan - please comment on.

I have their Chennai office phone number (head of Bureau - his mobile number). I am planning to call him tomorrow to give details on the family as well as the website. I am not planning to explain the organ donation part. I will request the news head to verify the news by going there in person or sending some one to collect the news and details. Will ask them to give the news in such a way that - to help the family who's condition is very pathetic, who lost their earning member in an accident etc. Let the family members talk to the news agency directly. I think that is the best thing.

I called the family again yesterday and talked to them and mentioned about the news paper coverage. Actually they asked me about it first, and it seems they do not have any issues publishing the news.

May be I can call them again tomorrow to be very careful while answering the questions by the journalists - as the news paper people may be interested in getting some sensational news.

Even though we all posted the story and news / web links in many forums, send in email etc, there is not much response and I think nobody contacted the family yet. So they continue their lives in the same pathetic condition. But at least we all tried our best.

Do not know what else we can do in this.

One of my friends who is manager in ICICI Bank Blore, told me to contact *www.giveindia.org He said they may be able to help, they are in touch with a lot of NGOs etc. Any ideas ? Heard of those agency ?

Waiting for your comments and suggestions.
 
OP
V

vaithy

In the zone
Din could u give the e-mail id of the reporter/editor of the chennai edition, perhaps we may request them to investigate the family's plight?
about the NGO websites that you provided i've checked with their audited accounts, and they are duly certified by the qualified Auditors firm. but my uneasyness is that the Audit firm is the one which support the Hospital group in the present case, some sort of client relationship exit with them..Let us wait for some other members sniff about it..

with regards,
vaithy
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom