'Nirbhaya' case convict interviewed in jail (in 2013)

[gemini90]

For a country like britain that includes contributions from drugs and prostitutes into its gdp and has numerous cases of pedophiles from high background (and a few with royal connections) exploiting orphans, their people sure huff and puff a lot about other societies, especially those who rank 100 something in world rape statistics based on per 1000 persons.

 

[Desmond]

That may well be the case. But there are documentaries highlighting those cases.

But why stop this documentary? Does the documentary lie about the situation here?

 

[gemini90]

What documentaries? The case where one duke and his mighty rich friends exploited preteen girls and boys only came to light due to work by a lone reporter. Before that, the social service chief and others responsible for safety of orphans had reached high positions like mayors ( a powerful position in britain ) and what not. And no documentaries will ever see the day of light due to powerful pedophiles. On the other hand numerous, and i really mean sickening no of cases with pakistani men have come to light in last 2 years. When reported in media like guardian or telegraph, they are always referred to as 'South Asian Men' therefore lumping together hard working indians with those *******s.Police does nothing because they fear being called racists.

You don't see the big picture. The aim of british and other west countries, especially scandivanian, is nothing but to put down India and belittle its achievements. For eg, when we sent that mars satellite and chandrayaan, the only thing that occupied the minds and tv's in those countries was concern about the poor in india and from now on it will include fake concern about rape victims and India's misplaced concentration on technology, etc.

As for ngo's here, they are all for creating image about india as rape capital of world so they can get more funds and awards from the west who are still carrying the white men's burden.

Rape in India – Why it becomes a worldwide story

Rape in India – Why it becomes a worldwide story

Rape is a terrible crime, a case where the victims are overwhelmingly women and the perpetrators overwhelmingly men. Every rape carries with it a personal story of trauma. To use statistics to speak about rape appears to dehumanize it into a number. Yet, when the mainstream news media is branding India into a “rape capital”, it is worth a pause. Maria Wirth, a German émigré to India wrote on how she found German TV disproportionately reporting a rape incident in far-away India, while a local rape was a small inside item. Similarly, a rape in a Cab in New Delhi made it all the way into the New York Times while an estimated 700 rapes on that day in the US merited no mention. This begs the question—is disproportionate coverage of rape in India justified? Or is it driven by an agenda?First, a look at the numbers. If we go by reported rape statistics, India has one of the lowest rates of rape in the world, sensationalist coverage notwithstanding. Here are the top 15 countries of the world by rapes per 100,000 people. We find that South Africa tops the chart in per capita rapes and Australia and the United States are in the top fifteen. (Note some of this data is from different years, based on available statistics. )If we just use the year 2010, the United States in the top 10 countries in the number of rapes. So is Sweden, right up there with Suriname. In Islamic countries under-reporting is a severe problem because of the difficulty of getting rape convictions in Islamic law. While the US is among the top countries in reported rape, still a majority (60%) of sexual assaults go unreported. Based on data collected by the US organization RAINN, factoring in unreported rapes, only 3% of rapists in the US would spend even one day in prison.

While low conviction rates and the difficulty of getting justice is given as one reason for low reporting of rapes in India, convictions rates are fairly low worldwide. The rate of rape conviction in the UK is only 6.5 percent in England and Wales, with a shocking low of 2.9% in Scotland. With such a low chance of conviction, women would be increasingly reluctant to go through the trauma of a rape trial and reporting rates would be depressed. India, by contrast, has a significantly higher rape conviction rate. While many countries, including UK and France, have shown a decline in rape conviction rate, India’s rate, despite a decline, is still several times higher than the UK at 26.4% with Delhi having a whopping 41.5% rape conviction rate, despite India’s notoriously inefficient justice system. A high chance of conviction would also have a positive affect on higher reporting. Thus the comparison of reported rape statistics cannot be dismissed out of hand, even though there are likely differences in reporting rates across countries. Given that caveat, let us see where India stand in reported rapes per capita in the table where the US is in the top 15.If not, we have to accept that the rank in this table, at least to some extent, reflects the actual rape rate. Along with India, Buddhist Japan and Hindu Nepal also find themselves near the bottom of the list.Why then this huge preoccupation with rapes in India in Western media and the Indian media echo box. A clue is found on this website a eiloftearsmovie.com. This is a Christian evangelical site, releasing a major film on “A Veil of Tears,” the plight of Indian women. The movie starts by dramatic accounts of the Delhi gangrape and starts to list a litany of ills in the “persecution” of India women and how it was important to save them. The agenda? The website is clear. They are explicitly marketing the movie to Church groups to collect funds and their partner is “Gospel for Asia.”“While the film, “Veil of Tears”, brings into focus the truth behind a dark reality existing in the world today, we are excited to highlight the hope being given to countless millions of women each day through the work and ministry of Gospel for Asia…We invite you to take a moment to learn more about the mission of Gospel for Asia and how you can be a part of our movement to rescue generations of women from persecution and rejection and into the hope of Jesus Christ.”The plight of Indian women is a marketing tool for the Global evangelical movement, that are shown explicitly using this to ask for money.Indian itself is the biggest target country in the Joshua Project, aimed at converting people between the 10-40 parallels. The missionary work is done on a war footing with detailed statistics about “unreached people,” every city and village with tribe and caste affiliations. India is the biggest and softest target. Most Islamic countries limit Christian missionaries, as does China. India is a unique place with the highest number of people to convert, the easiest access and the most naivete about the conversion war.Can this influence news reporting? As I point out in my research into the Conversion War, we have to remember the size of the money involved. The one-year revenue of institutionalized Christianity is estimated to be $260 billion dollars (2001) figures. About a fifth of this, $47 billion, are allocated to global mission work every year.

A $250 billion corporate force with the support of the most powerful countries on the planet can create a lot of influence. People in India are especially susceptible to regarding Christianity as a benign force and the Christian narrative dominates the media. The demonization of India for rapes is part of this propaganda war. US missionaries are the biggest funders of evangelical activities in India and are pushing the narrative that Christianization is necessary to “save” Indian women from the “oppressive native culture.” Unfortunately Indian media is complicit in this global campaign. This when the US has 16 times the rape rate of India. Even if we consider that the actual Indian rape rate is 4 times what is reported, and the US reports every rape (research indicates it barely reports half), women in the US would still be 4 times more likely to be raped that in India. Whose culture needs saving? Why is the rape rate in Christian US so high? These are questions worth exploring. It is the Indian media and television channels that are part of the exploitation of this issue for sensationalist coverage. They have not been part of the solution. Rather the media’s own role in commoditization of women’s bodies for selling products, newspapers and channels should be under the scanner.

- - - Updated - - -

The Nirbhaya Documentary - as always, follow the money

*www.moneylife.in/article/the-nirbhaya-documentary---as-always-follow-the-money/40736.html

Over the last few days, I have been amongst the most vociferous on social media, objecting to the public airing in India of the Nirbhaya documentary made by my ex-colleague from NDTV, Dibang, and his co-Producer, Leslee Udwin from the UK. Why am I, otherwise an absolute votary of free speech, against this documentary?

1) The little I have seen, and the feedback I have got from those who have seen it, leads me to believe that the rapist has been depicted as a braggart out to leave his message to the other hoodlums on the street. One reason for this is that death by hanging in popular Indian movies, lore tends to glorify it as a means of expression against political and colonial repression, and that needs to be corrected.

2) There appears to be no available record as of now of adherence to Indian laws by the two producers. Permissions for social research have been misused into making a commercial documentary. There are also reports of inducements in cash paid out to various people who have appeared in the documentary.

3) There is no data available on status of compliance to Indian laws including service tax laws for hiring of vehicles, hotel rooms, equipment, staff and similar expenses, which have run into crores of rupees over a period of two years. At least two press conferences held at the Royal Plaza Hotel in Delhi in the last few days were reported to have been paid for totally in cash.

4) The British producer, Leslee Udwin, has openly said that she is totally against capital punishment. The justice delivery system of India, however, has pronounced a death sentence, which is still up on appeal in higher Courts. This documentary then appears to be a clear case of trying to interfere in the delivery of justice in India.

5) Dibang, the other producer, has himself had a colourful tenure at New Delhi Television. There may or may not be written complaints of sexual harassment against him, as hinted at by a blog, which has been up for years now, but there is no smoke without fire either. I have worked at NDTV, years ago, and still have friends there and from there.

6) And finally, the police have filed a case about outraging the modesty of women, basis their inputs on the said documentary. That says it all.

Why would somebody spend crores on making a movie defiling the memory of a dead person, to make her killers and rapists look like studs and stars, is the question I hope to answer in a few days as more details of the money trail come in. For now, fact remains, large amounts have reportedly been spent in cash.

 

[Faun]

It's still getting spread like wildfire
[YOUTUBE]1XqzHvhhLZY[/YOUTUBE]

- - - Updated - - -

You don't see the big picture. The aim of british and other west countries, especially scandivanian, is nothing but to put down India and belittle its achievements. For eg, when we sent that mars satellite and chandrayaan, the only thing that occupied the minds and tv's in those countries was concern about the poor in india and from now on it will include fake concern about rape victims and India's misplaced concentration on technology, etc.

Calm your mustache, dude.

 

[gemini90]

What have i said that reflects the need to calm down? It is not like i am denying that a situation exists in india.

Rather I would say that India has a habit of self flagellation and taking unnecessary advice from those who themselves don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[$hadow]

Shame on BBC for releasing this.

 

[Faun]

What have i said that reflects the need to calm down? Rather I would say that India has a habit of self flagellation and taking unnecessary advice from those who themselves don't have a leg to stand on.

You are shooting the messenger here. Just because they don't have a leg to stand upon doesn't nullify what happened. It's not about self flagellation or belittling us.

Are you so much pained by them demeaning our country at every milestone and biting back at every opportunity they can steal ? Calm you mustache then.

 

[gemini90]

And you don't seem to care about their motive here which is most certainly not the welfare of rape victims and especially not the victim in this case.

December 16 gangrape victim's father objects to documentary

December 16 gang-rape victim's father objects to daughter's name being made public - The Times of India

The family of Delhi gangrape victim has taken a strong exception to making public of their daughter's name in the BBC documentary and has warned of taking legal action in this connection.

"Despite clearly telling them not to make the name and photo of our daughter public, they have gone ahead with it and this is not right.. we will take legal action against this", the father of the victim told PTI.

In the documentary made by British filmmaker Leslee Udwin, the father has also objected to the derogatory statements by Mukesh, the driver of the bus in which the 23-year-old paramedical student, native of Ballia, was brutally gangraped by six men on December 16, 2012.

"BBC has thrown a challenge to the Indian government and we are confident that they will be given a suitable reply soon", he said.

He, however, said that they are happy with union home minister Rajnath Singh and the alacrity with which he has responded and urged the central government to also pursue the matter in the Supreme Court so that suitable punishment is given to the convicts at the earliest.

*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_T3PnHUoAA5E44.jpg:large

She actually branded 'all' Indian males as potential rapists. ( at 1 hour 40 min)

BBC Radio 4 - Today, 05/03/2015

starting 1hr 35 min. She starts by saying - how glad she is to be back safely to Britain. AS IF SHE WAS GOING TO BE RAPED MIDAIR? Seriously.

Why this focus on 'rapes in India' by world media? - Maria Wirth

*mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/why-this-focus-on-rapes-in-india-by-world-media/

 

[Faun]

And you don't seem to care about their motive here which is most certainly not the welfare of rape victims and especially not the victim in this case.

December 16 gangrape victim's father objects to documentary

December 16 gang-rape victim's father objects to daughter's name being made public - The Times of India


*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_T3PnHUoAA5E44.jpg:large

She actually branded 'all' Indian males as potential rapists. ( at 1 hour 40 min)

BBC Radio 4 - Today, 05/03/2015

starting 1hr 35 min. She starts by saying - how glad she is to be back safely to Britain. AS IF SHE WAS GOING TO BE RAPED MIDAIR? Seriously.

At 1hr 35min I don't see any relevance at all. Perhaps you got another link ?

She is glad to be back. You don't have to stretch the hyperbole here.

Even then, the documentary is important. It does happen, the kind of attitude prevalent. Keeping silent will not magically transform the society.

 

[gemini90]

And i said this before in previous posts that i agree a situation does exist in india. And i also said we don't need advice from others on how to deal with this situation whose only motive is to shoot at us in the garb of purest morality. They just want to add oil to fire.

 

[Faun]

And i said this before in previous posts that i agree a situation does exist in india. And i also said we don't need advice from others on how to deal with this situation whose only motive is to shoot at us in the garb of purest morality. They just want to add oil to fire.

An old story:

"It’s the wind that is really moving," stated the first disciple.
"No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second.
A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them.
"Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is mind that moves."

 

[gemini90]

You mean to say that i am imagining things and prescribing motives to the other party, right? If so, I have nothing further to add in reply to you after previous posts.

 

[Faun]

You mean to say that i am imagining things and prescribing motives to the other party, right? If so, I have nothing further to add in reply to you after previous posts.

There is enough oil to fuel the fire. The point is that can you control the fire within you from burning the house down due to catalyst thrown in ?

 

[Flash]

*i.imgur.com/Rr3JYN7.jpg

"Indian Men"?

 

[gemini90]

^^ See this is what i have been talking about since long on this thread. The same case as lumping Indians with pedophiles pakistani men in Britain under the term 'South Asian Men'.

It was imperative to show the documentary both unedited and edited to victim's father. And it was imperative to take written permission before the shooting and a no-objection certificate after the shooting. Also it was imperative for the documentary makers to ensure that the victim's family has full access to a legal aid.

As that link about the victim's father objecting to the documentary shows all of the above was not followed and hence the documentary itself is illegal.

WHY THIS FOCUS ON ’RAPES IN INDIA’ BY WORLD MEDIA? - Maria Wirth

*mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/why-this-focus-on-rapes-in-india-by-world-media/

Judging from media reports, India has a BIG problem with rape. No other country seems to come even close. All over the globe “another rape in India” is reported ever so often. On my last visit to Germany, I jolted when on 27. December 2013 the most popular TV news ended with “another gang rape in India”. It was one of only five topics of the 15 minutes broadcast.

Even my sister wondered how a gang rape in India made it to the main news in Germany. That same day in a conservative estimate, over a thousand rapes would have been committed all over the world. In the USA some 200, in South Africa some 170. In the western cities, the statistics show a high percentage, much higher than in India. Many of those rapes would have been gang rapes. In many cases, the girl or woman would have been killed. Behind each of those statistical figures are painful, heartrending stories. If we knew what is happening at this very moment on this earth – how much pain humans inflict on other humans and on animals – we could not bear it. With so much crime happening everywhere, why is India being singled out and shamed with “another gang rape”, when it actually has only a fraction of the crimes other countries have in relative numbers? In absolute numbers of course it would be no surprise if India with her huge population of four times the size of the United States were number one apart from China. Even then it is not number one. USA is.

The deluge of rape reports on India started with the shameful gang rape of a young woman, Jyoti, in a bus in Delhi on December 16th, 2012. Jyoti died. The six culprits were convicted. One committed either suicide (official version) or was killed by prison inmates. Four got death sentence. The sixth was a minor, six months short of his 18th birthday. He got away with 3 years in a reprimand home. As he allegedly was the most brutal of all and responsible for the death of Jyoti, efforts are on to try him as an adult.

This gang rape received unprecedented publicity. It reached national and local news all over the globe. It reached even a friend in Slovenia, who is usually oblivious of what is happening. Why was it broadcasted all over with such intensity? Was it because Indians protested in a big way and demanded harsh punishment? Those protests should have actually gone in favour of India, as they made clear that Indians consider rape as completely against their culture. But the opposite happened:

Ever since that December 2012, news on India have centered almost exclusively on “another rape” and even on the “rape culture of India”. One year later, the tragic story of Jyoti was again splashed over half a page in a local Nuremberg newspaper, and in its year-end- review, the Spiegel magazine did not feature anything about India, not even the Uttarakhand disaster with over 7000 dead, but – a group of victims of sexual abuse learning martial arts in Lucknow, ready to take on anyone who molests women. Obviously it was implied that such molesters are lurking at every corner.

India does have a problem with rape. Other countries also have this problem. Yet the exclusive focus by the world media on “rapes in India’ is not justified and raises suspicion of an agenda behind it. Articles appeared now, often written by Indians with Hindu names, that Indian (read Hindu) culture is to be blamed for the rapes, because it does not consider women as ‘autonomous entities’, which probably means that they can’t do what they want. The Washington Post proclaimed that sexual violence was endemic in India. The Reuters Trust Law group named India one of the worst countries in the world for women. A Harvard committee crafted strategies for ‘adolescent education’ to change the Indian mindset about gender. It was getting a bit much. Don’t westerners look at their own record – past and present – and compare it with that of India? Are they not ashamed?

Anyone who cares to find out will easily discover that rape is not in the culture of India, and women have a good, even respected position compared to other cultures or countries. This position may not be in tune with the view of feminists, but are feminists the measure of all things? Do those feminists believe that village women in India want to be like them? In my view, those feminists look pitiable in the eyes of those often very strong village women who see Sita as their ideal. The main anguish of those women is poverty, not gender roles.

To blame Hindu culture is preposterous to say the least. In fact, if Hindu culture would have prevailed and Christianity and Islam had never appeared on the scene, the world would be a better place. Christians and Muslims have traditionally used rape as a tool of war. For them, the ‘other’ was never worthy of any consideration and could be brutally raped and killed never mind if they were civilians. The Geneva Convention’s purpose is to stop this barbaric behaviour. Hindus never needed a Geneva Convention. They also fought wars, but they did not brutalize women or the civilian population.

The campaign to paint India blacker than it is sadly has worked. It is now a ‘fact’ for most foreigners (and for the convinced Indians) that Indian women have to live terrible lives, more terrible than anywhere else. No disagreeing possible. Everyone will shout you down with plenty of horrific examples. Yes, there are plenty of horrific examples and one needs to find out the reasons and find remedies. But individual criminals do not define a country, even less, if other countries have more of them. So why is India beaten with “another gang rape” again and again? Is the purpose to spoil the image of India? And if so, why?

In recent times, Indians have clearly made a mark. There is tremendous talent in the country. It is acknowledged that Indians have brains. This expresses itself in a new found confidence. ‘Western values’ are more likely to be scrutinized now and the ancient Hindu tradition is seeing a renaissance. The ‘established opinion’ that Christianity and Islam are any time better than Hinduism is being challenged. Modern western values are also more likely to be scrutinized and the west does not like it. The established opinions have power and this power seems to be used to malign India in a most unfair manner.

Rape is a delicate subject and whoever tries to place it into perspective is likely to get slaps from all sides, not least from the women’s groups. Not many will dare to state, that India has a problem, but not a bigger one than other countries, and does not need interference from the west in handling it. In fact, India has a great advantage. The family system is generally still strong especially among the masses who have escaped English education. Celibacy before marriage is still valued and not ridiculed. Romantic love is still seen for what it is – a temporary emotion and not a solid basis for a lifelong companionship. Compromise among family members and even sacrifice are not yet condemned as restricting individual freedom. Sita is still an ideal for most Hindu women. Bhakti, love for God, can still be expressed.

The fact that these values are still strong is not appreciated by western opinion makers. Those values are considered out of sync with the Zeitgeist. They pose a challenge to the western lifestyle which is being pushed into India. ‘Modern, western values’ mean for example (I learned this from an article in Focus, a German magazine) to live in rainbow or patchwork families, Those families will either have gays as ‘parents’ or children from different partners as the parents would have had several live-in relationships earlier. It is supposed to be a great learning experience for everyone. A book will soon be out in Germany that examines whether gays make better ’parents’ than the traditional man–woman combination. It is overlooked, that these ‘parents’ can’t produce children together. But then, who needs children in the west?

Traditional Indian society is clearly out of sync with this modern lifestyle and to portray it in a poor light, “another rape” makes headlines every other day. Care is taken that only rapes committed by men with Hindu names reach the limelight and are discussed on TV. India has some 200 million Muslims and some 50 million Christians and they also commit rapes and very cruel ones, as well. For example the minor in the rape case of Jyothi is a Muslim. This news, however, did not make it to the mainstream media. There seems to be communalism in regard to broadcasting crimes, and maybe even in registering them. This makes sense, if the objective is to demean Hindu culture and thereby propel it to reform and open up. It is expected to leave those old fashioned family values behind, to have condom vending machines in colleges, to consider free sex as normal. What better start than to talk of rape? It prepares the ground for allowing westerners to prepare the syllabus for ‘adolescent education’. And once the youth is convinced, the ‘backward’ Hindu society will be a thing of the past.

This prospect would be a horror for the Indian masses from all religions. Hindu society is indeed rigid in certain aspects and has much scope to improve, but its values are still highly preferable to western, modern ‘values’. One just needs to look at western societies to realise that the modern life style is a failed model. It has already regrettable fallout: many youngsters are without direction because of too much freedom. They long for clear rules and turn to fundamentalist, evangelical churches. Hindu Dharma would be the better option. But they are not likely to get to know about it in an unbiased manner.

By Maria Wirth

 

[Flash]

^ I agree with how the world is trying to paint India as a "Rape-prone" country as if India is the only place in the world where rape crimes are high. It's the bizarre mindset of a person which is responsible for a rape, and not his nationality or ethnicity. India stands 3rd among the world, yet no one questioned about the Big-Brother that why the rapes are so high there, even when they're are so advanced in everything.

*i.imgur.com/Twb4vUb.png

Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is India the Rape Capital of the World? | MORE Magazine

 

[GhorMaanas]

hmm. so the accusation of seeking permission for film-making on the pretense of 'research' is true. although i still hope that something good would come out of this for our country (a slight jolt to our mindset, or just anything, though i may still be expecting too much), but IMO not taking the family's permission, or the father's protest should've be a good reason (an ethical one should i say) to halt the broadcast. but the BBC also played cunningly and pre-poned the telecast well before the slated release-date! though now the damage has been done, and may be we could read about diplomatic arm-twisting measures being taken by the govt. now. unsure. thanks @gemini90 for sharing the links and info!

P.S. - Ms. Leslie is thanking her stars for being 'safe' back to home, while many foreigners are here busy in Holi celebrations, getting all coloured up in gulaal! poor fellows! i hope Ms. Leslie is praying for them?!

 

[gemini90]

About that info about 2 rapists football players article in MORE magazine, it is not for nothing that the term 'Campus Rape' is prevalent in USA which leads the pack.

Campus rape: A guide to the debate that’s roiling American universities – Quartz

[MENTION=120775]GhorMaanas[/MENTION] It's nothing worth mentioning. I just wanted to clear up the doubts people seem to have about the relevance and motives behind the documentary.

 

[GhorMaanas]

alright. still, appreciate it; those are informative.

something from my side.
i had come across a BBC report on rapes and rape-victims in pakistan a few days back. had saved the link in order to show it to a chest-thumping paki if i ever come across one online and if it becomes difficult to hold back at his contemptuous slander. these people take joy in sermonising us that we are a country of rapes and theirs is a 'heaven-on-earth'.

BBC News - Pakistan victim seeks justice after online gang rape video

 

[vkl]

While India isn't perfect but rape sensationalism is overdone.Sheer numbers won't tell much.
Rape rate,density would tell somewhat better.And by those India won't come anywhere close but again statistics can't show much really.
Though there are lot of other factors but based on pure stats India is nowhere close to be the rape capital of the world as hyped.India might come at about top 100 list won't make it to top 50.Nowhere close to US,UK,Sweden etc.
In India Marital rape is not prosecuted under normal ordinances rather it comes under domestic violence,needs to be changed.

The BBC and Islam: Let the children be raped - The Commentator
I find hypocrisy with BBC in many of their things.

Anyway,this one seems a good read: India's Daughter: We need to go beyond BBC's nauseating moralising - Firstpost

alright. still, appreciate it; those are informative.

something from my side.
i had come across a BBC report on rapes and rape-victims in pakistan a few days back. had saved the link in order to show it to a chest-thumping paki if i ever come across one online and if it becomes difficult to hold back at his contemptuous slander. these people take joy in sermonising us that we are a country of rapes and theirs is a 'heaven-on-earth'.

BBC News - Pakistan victim seeks justice after online gang rape video

Don't even bring Pakistan.Not worth it.
Status of women is far far poor there. Stupid laws over the years.More here *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudood_Ordinances