Is there any worth to National pride?

Desmond

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I was watching this video of George Carlin :



If you are low on bandwidth (or too lazy to watch the whole video), he says :

george-carlin-ethnic-national-pride.jpg


We may say that we are "Proud to be an Indian", but exactly are we proud of? IMHO, its just a catch phrase that people say because everyone is saying the same. Everyone else in every other country is probably saying the same about their own country.

So, what is national pride worth and why are we taught the same in schools, etc when it is merely an accident of birth?
 

Hrishi

******************
Well , we contribute to the national pride . Don't we ?
Say, If we do something wrong , it'' hurt the pride of nation.If we do something right , it'll improve the pride of nation.
Now , the contribution made to it on a large scale may be very minute or small but still every one amongst is responsible for who we are .(Indian).
Consider the same stuff on a small scale basis , like a Team of Players.It'll make some sense.

Its a controversial topic , though and these are just my 2 cents . But IMO , it matters upto an Extent.
 
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Desmond

Desmond

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Well, I brought up this topic because ever since I could think on my own, I have always seen a country (any country) as a piece of land and nothing more. I used to think that I was the only one with such an opinion. When I saw this video, I thought I might not be the only one. No matter what they teach in school, I always kept my opinion about this. For me, it is just a sentiment that has been inculcated over time and made so common that everyone thinks the same. I wonder that if someone was brought up without the concept of national pride, would they still show pride in their country?

As for sports, I see human beings playing with other human beings and not Indians, Pakistanis, Australians and so forth.
 

Gen.Libeb

Padawan
@Desmond David - Haven't watched the video but I agree with most of what you said there about National pride. I guess its just like your parents/their family, you don't get to choose them.

For the sports thing, are you saying you do not cheer for a particular team ? Not sure what you mean there.
 
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Desmond

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Well, being born to my parents is something natural and inevitable, but being born in India (or any country for that matter) is a fluke. What then should we be proud of? I mean, is it ok to not be proud of ones country or is it possible to choose to do so without any repercussions?

As for sports, I don't follow sports much.
 

Gen.Libeb

Padawan
What then should we be proud of? I mean, is it ok to not be proud of ones country or is it possible to choose to do so without any repercussions?
I'd think its ok, No one can really force you to take national pride.

Well, being born to my parents is something natural and inevitable, but being born in India (or any country for that matter) is a fluke.
I don't see how this is different. You could had been born to European parents(or any other) in one of those countries & then you'd have genes/features of those parents.
 
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Desmond

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I'd think its ok, No one can really force you to take national pride.


I don't see how this is different. You could had been born to European parents(or any other) in one of those countries & then you'd have genes/features of those parents.

Yeah, but it is also possible that your parents move to another country and you be born there. It can also be possible that you be born of mixed race or nationality, what then?

For some reason, I have a feeling that the concept of a country and national borders is a primitive territorial instinct that needs to go.
 
I have come over from being a 'part of country' to 'part of a world'. I just can't understand why people keep talking about 'my country', 'my nation' and not 'my world' ? Maybe because it sounds like you want to conquer the world? Even at my college (and I guess that's happening with every college), they keep on saying 'work for your country', 'make your country proud' and all similar stuff, but I always think on the global scale, why not do something for the world, for the mankind rather than one single fu***ng country?

And it's not just about the country and the world, at college, almost all teachers ask for suggestions for their own department, why not ask students to suggest something for the whole college?

Why do we always talk about keeping our own house clean and not about keeping the entire colony clean (I agree, many people actually that).

For some reason, I have a feeling that the concept of a country and national borders is a primitive territorial instinct that needs to go.

That's exactly what I think.
 

Anorion

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don't agree with that pissed off old american, his country barely has a history
have national pride, not because of of some random accident of birth, but because we have traditions reaching back for many thousands of years... that is parampara... and not talking about stupid rituals, Im talking about traditions such as schools of music, thought, and dance
a state is just a state of mind, and this emerges and exists before the geographic lines are drawn. the boundries of the states in india roughly follow the boundries of the languages. a nation is not restricted just to it's geographical boundaries. Parsis are a nation, Jews are a nation, Romani are a nation. Our diaspora is Indian no matter where in the world they are. Metal is a nation. doing away with these differences is a cynical view, it will reduce our cultural richness, not improve it.
 
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Desmond

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I have come over from being a 'part of country' to 'part of a world'. I just can't understand why people keep talking about 'my country', 'my nation' and not 'my world' ? Maybe because it sounds like you want to conquer the world? Even at my college (and I guess that's happening with every college), they keep on saying 'work for your country', 'make your country proud' and all similar stuff, but I always think on the global scale, why not do something for the world, for the mankind rather than one single fu***ng country?

And it's not just about the country and the world, at college, almost all teachers ask for suggestions for their own department, why not ask students to suggest something for the whole college?

Why do we always talk about keeping our own house clean and not about keeping the entire colony clean (I agree, many people actually that).



That's exactly what I think.

Now we are getting somewhere.

People always tend to forget that we are all human beings first. Nationality, ethnicity, language, religion, caste, etc is all secondary as compared to this. What I think is that since there is no other sentient species other than us, we take humanity for granted. Such a mentality gives rise to racism, castism, etc since rivalry is bound to thrive in such an environment.

I wonder whether such a behaviour to favour ones own kind of people arises from the territorial pack mentality that evolution has not filtered out of us yet. We will always support our own relatives over everyone else who is not a relative of ours. The reason we keep our own house clean and not the country is because people don't really care about the country. They may try to show that they do but in reality very few genuinely care. The rest who think that they care will prefer fighting over something trivial than actually do something for the greater good.

I think this arises from the fact that people don't know much about what's outside their own country or state for that matter. If people are allowed to mix with more people from other countries, people will value humanity more.

don't agree with that pissed off old american, his country barely has a history
have national pride, not because of of some random accident of birth, but because we have traditions reaching back for many thousands of years... that is parampara... and not talking about stupid rituals, Im talking about traditions such as schools of music, thought, and dance
a state is just a state of mind, and this emerges and exists before the geographic lines are drawn. the boundries of the states in india roughly follow the boundries of the languages. a nation is not restricted just to it's geographical boundaries. Parsis are a nation, Jews are a nation, Romani are a nation. Our diaspora is Indian no matter where in the world they are. Metal is a nation. doing away with these differences is a cynical view, it will reduce our cultural richness, not improve it.

Indeed, but so is everyone else about their own country. What makes our pride any different (or better)?
 

whitestar_999

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pride is not negative in its basic sense,false/extreme pride is.we can not change past & so we can't just set aside all cultural differences just like that.every culture has some positive points & negative points & every person has the right to feel proud about his culture's positive points.only when a person forgets about his culture's negative points then his pride takes a negative meaning.pride is not a quality which can be compared like better pride,it is only either positive or negative.two persons from two different cultures having positive pride about their nation/culture can co-exist peacefully but not those with negative pride.
 
I think this arises from the fact that people don't know much about what's outside their own country or state for that matter. If people are allowed to mix with more people from other countries, people will value humanity more.

Agree.
 

Hrishi

******************
don't agree with that pissed off old american, his country barely has a history
have national pride, not because of of some random accident of birth, but because we have traditions reaching back for many thousands of years... that is parampara... and not talking about stupid rituals, Im talking about traditions such as schools of music, thought, and dance
a state is just a state of mind, and this emerges and exists before the geographic lines are drawn. the boundries of the states in india roughly follow the boundries of the languages. a nation is not restricted just to it's geographical boundaries. Parsis are a nation, Jews are a nation, Romani are a nation. Our diaspora is Indian no matter where in the world they are. Metal is a nation. doing away with these differences is a cynical view, it will reduce our cultural richness, not improve it.

This.
 

mitraark

nub 4eva
There was an episode in House MD, a billionaire programmer, he realised one day that there was too much inequality in the society, his family are living lavishly whereas several homeless people were hardly getting to eat in the streets. He started donating vigourously, giving away millions to charity, shelter homes, basically anyone who came with a financial problem to him. He left his large home and started living in a small apartment, which made his wife children leave him, but he was content that he was living with whatever he needed, and carrying on, and that surplus would go to the needy. One day fainted and had to be taken to the hospital where he was treat for minor exhaustion and malnutrition, and was to be released in a couple of days. In the meantime he donated a significant amount to the hospital as well. Dr. House noticed his erratic behaviour, managed to make him donate 100,000$ to his "work" just by asking once. This made House sure this was abnormal, and finally it was revealed that the guy had some sort of medical condition which made him so eager to give. After he was cured for that, he rescinded all the donations. House asked him about the money he promised, but he refused. Yes there were TB infected people, blind children in Indonesia who could be in need of money, but spending for your family, it's not being selfish, it's being responsible.

Similarly, one might say why we support a country and not humanity as whole, but each one contributing to their own country's pride would eventually result in the progress of mankind itself. The feeling would foster the urge to do better for own people works well.
 

ico

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I'm proud of the fact that India's contribution to the world is zero.
 
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Desmond

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What is the point of national pride on basis of historical achievements and contributions during a time when the concept of a nation (republic) was not even known? The portion of land now known as India was a bunch of kingdoms and all those who had contributed to science, mathematics, astronomy, etc in that time were in their respective kingdoms. But the kingdoms are ancient history and are no longer in existence. We are one nation now. All our achievements after becoming a republic counts towards modern national development.
 

Anorion

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^it's not historical achievements, everyone does not want to build cities of cement and glass, some may still choose to live in mud houses.
we have two schools of classical music, hindustani and carnatic, flourishing, at times in the same state (karnataka). this is not hundred year old achievement, it is a ongoing achievement of hundreds of years.
 
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